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Is The OT Anti Leupold???

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Category: Scopes
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Forum Description: Centerfire long gun scopes
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Printed Date: November/24/2017 at 03:34


Topic: Is The OT Anti Leupold???
Posted By: cheaptrick
Subject: Is The OT Anti Leupold???
Date Posted: October/17/2007 at 15:29

It seems to me this forum gets jacked up from time to time for being "Anti Leupold" or down on Leupold.

 

There's a thread here on the Rifle Scope forum as I write where a gentleman states....

"It baffles me sometimes how anti-Leupold this site is and question some of the advice given because of that."

Mike650

 

Really, Mike??  I seriously don't believe that, Sir, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

Not trying to call you out at all Mike, but your response in the other thread just got me thinking and it seems indicative of what some other folks have said in the past.

 

Is recommending something "besides" Leupold considered "bashing" by those that love Leupold? 

Is our advise tainted because of our hatred for the big L?? (I say this in jest.)

Lastly, has anyone here really laid the wood to Leupold??

(Besides Rancid Coolaid, that is)   His displeasure with Leupold has been duly noted, but as far as the whole forum knocking Leupold, I say no.  

 

Rather, I have seen some Leupoldites that have made outlandish claims concerning Leupold's quality, reliability, 100% All American built, etc.

 

What say you??




Replies:
Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: October/17/2007 at 15:47

mike650

 

Hum, you question the advise given by some just because they don't like Leupold? I am not certain I understand that logic. My chief complaint with Leupold is their price. I guess now my second complaint is the sensitivity of pro-Leupold folks. I really don't see how someone can question another's advise based upon them giving their opinion. If someone feels that the advise given is too harsh, biased or inaccurate, question it by all means.



Posted By: Dogger
Date Posted: October/17/2007 at 15:48
When I first started reading this forum (about a year and a half ago) it definitely seemed there was an anti-Leupold bias.  Since that time most people who challenge Leupold performance have been more careful to point out that Leupold makes a rugged, optically acceptable product with an excellent warranty but at an inflated price based on the company image.  Others have pointed out that there is a price to paid for "Made in America"  products versus cheaper imports.  I think that what I have taken away from all this is not to accept a product based on face value or past performance when there may be as good as or better value alternatives available.  It is also getting more difficult to determine just what Made in America really means if some components are sourced overseas but assembled in the US.

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God save the Empire!


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: October/17/2007 at 15:56

Originally posted by Dogger Dogger wrote:

When I first started reading this forum (about a year and a half ago) it definitely seemed there was an anti-Leupold bias.

 

Could you be more specific??  



Posted By: ND2000
Date Posted: October/17/2007 at 15:59

It has nothing to do with being anti-Leupold IMO.  What it does have to do with is this is an objective forum, where people don't get paid to push one product or another.  I still laugh everytime I come across someone mentioning Field & Streams commentary that the VX-7 is the best top-end scope on the market...  Now, people here may try to justify their own purchases, but that is just part of the deal.   Personally, I will always mention what it is that I own if I feel is relevant to the topic from an objectivity perspective.

 

The fact is Leupold just doesn't offer good value in the market, at least for hunting riflescopes.  As a result, there is no compelling reason to buy them. 

 

If you like Leupold, go nuts.  Cost is real, value is perceived.

 

ND2000



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You either get what you pay for or what you deserve.


Posted By: Dogger
Date Posted: October/17/2007 at 16:04
I would have to go back & re-read some of the posts, but it just sticks in my mind that Leupold was often talked about in very negative terms versus say Zeiss, Nikon, Super Sniper etc.  I think a lot of this was due to the fact that I was really a neophyte when it came to optics and had always had the impresssion that Leupold was the pinnacle - this was probably based on  discussions from others who used Leupold, magazine advertising and just general ignorance of other products.  So, it came as a bit of shock to read some of the comments.  My thinking was challenged once exposed to the alternatives - would still consider Leupold but it is no longer the be-all, end-all.

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God save the Empire!


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: October/17/2007 at 16:11

Originally posted by Dogger Dogger wrote:

I would have to go back & re-read some of the posts, but it just sticks in my mind that Leupold was often talked about in very negative terms versus say Zeiss, Nikon, Super Sniper .

 

I can remember threads where Nikon's, Conquest's and even a few Super Sniper's have gotten a bloody nose or two on this forum, my friend. 

 

 



Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: October/17/2007 at 16:15
That's only because they suck as well because there not Elites.........grin


Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: October/17/2007 at 16:19

HMMMM?????!!!!!!!!

I love my leupolds, I own two, I just think there are better deals quality for price wise. My Leo aint as good as my IOR, and both ran the same cost wise.



-------------
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: kmad61
Date Posted: October/17/2007 at 16:28
For years it seemed that the measuring stick in optics was the vari-x 3.Now with the elite 4200,Monarch and Gran slam hovering around,the value per dollar has kicked the Leupy to the curb.Why buy a vari-x 3 for $600 when you could pay $400 for a elite 4200,and have a better scope.


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: October/17/2007 at 16:39

I think this forum, YOU PEOPLE, are the best of the best and offer the most comprehensive optic advise to new members and old a like. 

I have learned an enormous amount of knowledge from the good people here.

 

As Rancid would say, "we run a hot range here" and the regulars here won't pull punches on optics and call a spade a spade.

 

Volumes have been written here about Nikon's 6 month warranty on "refurbs" and their supposed bad customer service.

I say supposed because my Nikon's have been 100% good to go, but I believe the hordes that have complained....  Too many people complained to all be false.

 

 

Dale Clifford loathes the Conquest due to plastic turrets, caps and a back wards W/E adjustments. ( I concur on the plastic.)  Others say the Conquest is a "bottom feeder" of the great Zeiss scopes.

 

Judas Priest on a popsicle stick!!! My all time favorite, US Optics has been cracked on by Technika and Mike McDonald because they bought USO's and were disappointed in both the scopes performance and USO's CS dept, IIRC.

 

Most all optics have had their "tits in a wringer" on The OT at one time or another.

Not just Leupold.....     



Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: October/17/2007 at 17:29

I hardly think I can be accused of being anti-Leupold. If anything I have spoken out on numerous occasions explaing the reasons that Leupold scopes are of value and should be the correct choice often due to the availibility of balistic reticles and the superior amount of internal adjustment found in certain models of Leupold scopes. Every scope I have that cost over $400. says Leupold on it and I have several including one currently being shipped from SWFA.

 

Re: Order Number:   165345

Arthur W:

Your order 165345, was received 10/11/07.

Your order included the following items Totaling $XXXX.

 Item        &n bsp;         &n bsp;         &n bsp;         &n bsp;  Qty      Qty      Qty  Expected
 Number    Description        & nbsp;         & nbsp;     Ord.     Shp.     Bck.    By  
---------- ------------------------------ -------- -------- -------- --------
LEU60030   Leupold 3.5-10x40 Mark 4 LR/T      1.00     1.00     0.00
           30mm Riflescope        &n bsp;     
           Matte, TMR, Side Focus, M1 Tar
           get Knobs, 1/p         &nb sp;     
ARMS40LP   ARMS #40LP Stand Alone Flip Up     1.00     1.00     0.00
             Rear Sight                    
           Matte, Low, .50 MOA         &nb sp;
SV TRADE   Trade                                  1.00     1.00     0.00
           Customer's Trade in Allowance
           Leupold 10X40 Mark 4         

Date Shipped  Via
  10/16/07    UPS - RESIDENTIAL GROUND SERVICE                   
               Tracking Number:        


 

Thank you for allowing us to serve you.
Remember, http://riflescopes.com/ - RifleScopes.com or call (972)SCOPE-IT, for all your Sporting Optic Needs.

 



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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: Big Squeeze
Date Posted: October/17/2007 at 17:53
From my personal standpoint and as a former 35 year Leupold owner, I wish to make it very clear that I do not dislike the Leupold scopes. For the most part, I don`t consider this forum to be "anti Leupold!" .................My main objection and others will agree, is that the Leupold scopes, for what you receive, are simply more expensive! Leupold owners have, do and will continue to pay more, for not only the gold ring, but for the name recognition "Leupold" as well........The same can be said for other products. One good example is tires. You simply pay more for the "NAME" recognition with Michelin or Goodyear as compared with other brands that will wear as long, are as good, but for sell for a cheaper price!.............................There are a few scopes on the market that simply equal and in some cases exceed the Leupold`s quality and they do so for less money! One of the best examples I can think of is the Elite 4200. Not to mention the Rainguard, the 4200 is equal to the VX111 in every possible way, is less money and in the opinion of many, exceeds the VX111 in optic quality!!..............That does not mean I or others hate Leupolds. However, it does mean that smart shoppers have other alternatives from which to choose. For those of you who think that we "bash" or hate Leupolds, it may sometimes appear so, but for the majority, I don`t think it`s true!...............To prove the point and as a little test here, I want to address all you diehard Leupold owners with this question,,,,,Exactly how does the VX111 exceed the quality of the 4200 or a Monarch? In optics? In construction? In durability? Please be specific with facts! For example; it seems to me that if one is going to pay $399 for a 3X9 VX111 as compared to $259 to $298 for a 3X9 Elite 4200, the Leupold IMO, should at least, have a porportional increase (25% to 35%) in quality improvements over the 4200 to justify the price increase! What exactly are those improvements???? In reality, the VX111`s are in no way 25% to 35% better than the 4200`s or the Monarchs....................NO! We don`t hate Leupolds on this site! But we can more than justify why we prefer other alternatives!!! However on the flip side, IMO, it would be more difficult for you diehard Leupold owners to justify to many of us why we should buy the Leupolds........... Over the years many shooters and hunters automatically assume that the Leupolds are the scopes to buy or the "go to" scopes! That comes from marketing, opinions handed down from generation to generation and personal opinion. Many diehards will never consider anything else. In the meantime, the market has drastically changed and is continually changing as other alternatives become more and more popular. The 4200`s and Monarchs are perhaps the two best examples of those alternatives!..................Personally, I`m not interested in the Leupold endorsements by any gun writer/author, shooting club, or military team. To sum things up and simply stated; if or when Leupold can produce a scope for about the same money, matching the quality alternatives, when in the market again, I will give the Leupold some due diligence!!!!...........Though I do wish my 4200 had that gold ring!!! That,,,is good looking!!!.......................

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300 WSM/375 Ruger....."All science, is truly the study of God`s wonderful work!"..."Bad news for liberals, is good news for America!".."What liberals hate, I love!".."What liberals like, I despise!"


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: October/17/2007 at 18:04

Ufriend is anything but a Loopie basher.

Wes, you have recommended more Leupolds than any one on this forum, except maybe Dale Clifford.



Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: October/17/2007 at 19:05

I currently own three 1.75-6X32 Vari-X IIIs, my all time favorite Leupold scope, and a 6.5-20X40 VX-III, which I think is a great varmint hunting scope.  I don't plan to get rid of either, as both serve their intended purpose very well.  I have owned several others over the years, but have since sold or traded them for various reasons.

 

On the subject of Leupold, I look at it this way... while it isn't by any means my favorite brand of scope, and in many cases I do believe they don't offer the best price:performance ratio, I do think they have their niche in certain applications.

 

For example, if you want an extremely light (less than 12 oz.), extremely compact scope of decent quality for a super light mountain rifle and you don't want to pay the price for a Swaro 3-9X36 AV, Leupold has a couple good options.

 

If you have a rifle with a quarter rib, or rear iron sight mounted close to the receiver and need to limit overall scope length so the objective bell will clear without going to super high mounts, yet you want more magnification than the typical 20mm objective scope offers, Leupy has several compact scopes that will work without also presenting eye relief problems.

 

Want a scope with, say, a German # 1 reticle and don't want to pay $1000+ for a scope that has it?  Leupy can fix you up.

 

How about a fixed 40X or 45X scope specifically for benchrest shooting?  I'm not aware of anyone else besides Leupy who makes a fixed competition scope above 36X.

 

For whatever reason, most scope manufacturers no longer offer a 50 yd/meter parallax adjusted rimfire scope anymore.  Leupy does.  Most of those that are available are el cheapo scopes.

 

For small varmint shooting, you could do much worse than the VXIII 30mm tube LR models with side focus and Varmint Hunters reticle.  They are very useful for PD shooting -- the VH reticle works great for that application.  Until you break the $1000 barrier, there simply aren't many purpose-built scopes at a competitive price that are better suited to that purpose, and believe me, among the scopes owned by my shooting buddies and me, I've tried a huge selection of various makes and models.

 

When you factor in all the different finishes, reticles, sizes, and configurations, there simply isn't another scope manufacturer that offers more options than Leupold.  They may not have the best scope at the best price within a given category, but by golly, they have something to offer for every shooting endeavor you can dream up.  That is their biggest strength, and maybe at the same time, one of their biggest weaknesses.

 

One thing's for certain -- their warranty and CS is definitely not one of their weaknesses.  You can thank Leupy for all the other scope manufacturers who offer lifetime warranties.

 

I'm in no way a cheerleader for Leupold, as I have some of the same criticisms as others for some of their products.  But, I do believe it's a mistake to say that in every application there are better alternatives available for less money, when in some cases, as in the examples above, there are few to no other alternatives.



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Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Obi Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: October/17/2007 at 19:46

I'm not "anti-leupold" but I do think they are way over priced for what you get.

 

I'm not just talking out of the blue. As I type this I have a Vari XIII sitting on top of a Rem 7400 30.06. I hunted with that gun for years & always had to leave my stands before the big deer really moved unless it was the rut.

 

I paid almost 600$ for that scope including rings & bases. 15 minuts past official sunset its like looking into a black hole. I know its a lot of Leupold die hards & guys loyal to the scope, I was to after moving up from a Simmons to a Leupold but since I've bought 3 or 4 Zeiss scopes & a Kahles scope, I'll never buy another Leupold again in my life.

 

For roughly the same money a 3-9x50 Conquest makes my Leupold pretty irrelevant during those last minutes of shooting light.

 

Again I'm not "anti-Leupold", they are nice scopes but they are just way overpriced.



Posted By: Big Squeeze
Date Posted: October/17/2007 at 19:57
Ted.............You are correct! Every buyer must evaluate their own needs and go with the best option available. True! Leupy does offer many options, many more than others. No disagreement there from me in that dept........My prediction for the future, is that others will one day offer as many options as the Leupolds do, in finishes, in recticles, in variable choices and so on! They too, will do everything possible to increase their market share. If you or I were running Bushnell, Nikon or any other competetor, that`s exactly what we would do!.......As for the warranty? I think that if Leupold had not started their lifetime warranty, others would have started to offer a lifetime warranty sooner or later. What Leupold did though, was to set the precedant for future lifetime warranties.............However, assuming a person`s needs fall in line, variables, reticles, finishes, etc. with the current offerings of 4200`s available, or the current line of Monarchs available? Then, if that`s the case, for the money, the VX111`s are not only overpriced, they are more than matched in quality as well...............

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300 WSM/375 Ruger....."All science, is truly the study of God`s wonderful work!"..."Bad news for liberals, is good news for America!".."What liberals hate, I love!".."What liberals like, I despise!"


Posted By: Graysteel
Date Posted: October/17/2007 at 20:25

I don't have anything against them either. I think Leupold's are great scopes. I used them in the service and never had any bad luck with them at all. I am not convinced they are the best value for the dollar however. 

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http://www.whitesounddefense.com/pages/Tech-Articles.html - http://www.whitesounddefense.com/pages/Tech-Articles.html


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: October/17/2007 at 21:12

Originally posted by Graysteel Graysteel wrote:


I don't have anything against them either. I think Leupold's are great scopes. I used them in the service and never had any bad luck with them at all. I am not convinced they are the best value for the dollar however. 

i agree with you 100%



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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 03:05
I think somebody needs to read my entire post again not just the Leupold comment. Smile

forum_posts.asp?TID=8138&PN=1 - New guy - old question...

forum_posts.asp?TID=8138&PN=1 - Cheers!

-Mike


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Fish to Live, Live to Hunt


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 04:57

Originally posted by mike650 mike650 wrote:

I think somebody needs to read my entire post again not just the Leupold comment. Smile

New guy - old question...

Cheers!

-Mike

 

Mike, I did reread the post and found nothing where anyone said anything negative about Leupold.

Did they?

Do you personally consider it "bashing" that the other guys recommended other scope brands in that thread? 

 

My question to you Sir, is what prompted you say this site is "anti Leupold" in that post?

You even went on to insinuate that our logic was flawed because of our dislike of Leupold.

 

I'm not picking on you Mike, but I'm just curious. Your not the first nor the last person to imply that this site dumps on Loopie. 

 

Heck, "Joe Hunter" even states in that thread that this site is down on Leupold....I don't get it.

 

I honestly think Leupold has gotten a fair shake around here. They have received their share of criticism and praise.....Am I wrong?? 

 

Thanks for the responses folks!!



Posted By: TheDrakeTaker
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 05:36
I'll be honest, I am anti-leupold.  When I look through one of their scopes I want to puke, I could eat sand for a week and sh*t better glass.  I'm a serious hunter and I need low light performance....you just don't get it with the leupys.  Now, they would definitely work fine for a gun that stays on the range, they are durable and have some models have a lot of moa (as previously stated) so they have their uses, but not for me.  If you like them....by all means get them they will work fine during the hours of the day when there is plenty of light.  You will find some anti-leupy people here like myself, but it is certainly not an anti-leupold site.  You will also find many anti-burris...nikon....too many to list.  All in all it's a fair site in my opinion, just a lot of honest people giving honest answers to questions that they may have had some experience with sometime in the past.  I have learned a lot on here in just a few months, I too used to think Leupold was the best b/c that's what I always heard from people.  Then I actually did some serious comparing and noticed how wrong I was.  Without this site I would never had discovered my beloved Kahles...thanks to many people on here.    

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Robert


Posted By: silver
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 07:35

 

 

If you have one of the "big bangers" and need lots of eye relief, the the big L may be for you.  If you want a wider field of view and cleaner glass, then maybe not. The word has gotten flatter and people need to understand that.  The big L has more competition now, and this forum reflects that fact. There are applications where they have advantages.  Being the Cadilac in a world of BMWs, Lexus, Mercedes and a host of other high end companies that were not even around thiry years ago means that you can not rest on your name. 



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"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane."   Jimmie Buffet

WWW.formitch.com



Posted By: 8shots
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 08:56

This site is not anti-Leupold. It is merely divided into two camps, those that own Leupolds and those that cannot afford Leupolds.

 

We who own them walk around with a smug look on our faces, and usually take our rifles out of our gunbags with a great flourish. We act  coy and pretend not to hear all the oohs and ahs when lesser non-Leupold mortals catch sight of the rising Golden Ring of the Leupold scope. Leupold owners do not mind that they pay a premium for the Great Name. We know what we have and quality do not come cheap.

 

Non_leupold owners again are in a class of their own. Some openly covet the Golden Ring and unashamedly grab a rifle adorned with a Leupold and looks through the glass. Suitably dazzled they walk around with that glazed looked dreaming of the day that they can afford one.

The more difficult non-Leupold owner is the closset-envier. He hides his envy behind a wall of technical jargon and talks about value-for-money, quality of glass, dawn or dusk visibility, eye-relief and all that stuff. He then throws all these strange names into the mix like Nikon, Burris, S&B, Zeis, Super Sniper and heaven forbid Bushnell. This is called deflection. They just want to deflect from the Golden Ring.

So in the end this site is united. Those that own a leupold, and those that would like to.

 



Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 09:02

If Leupold used real gold for that ring they might be worth the extra money.



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With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 09:35
.

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Fish to Live, Live to Hunt


Posted By: Dale Clifford
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 10:29
I don't think the site is anti-leo- after all there must be a standard to judge all others.


Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 10:38

That Dale, is the truth. Leupold is not the best in every catagory, but the whole package is usually very good for most realistic hunting situations.

 

Roy



Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 10:45
Dale and Roy, well said.

Thank you

-Mike


Posted By: Dolphin
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 11:14
Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

This site is not anti-Leupold. It is merely divided into two camps, those that own Leupolds and those that cannot afford Leupolds.

 

We who own them walk around with a smug look on our faces, and usually take our rifles out of our gunbags with a great flourish. We act  coy and pretend not to hear all the oohs and ahs when lesser non-Leupold mortals catch sight of the rising Golden Ring of the Leupold scope. Leupold owners do not mind that they pay a premium for the Great Name. We know what we have and quality do not come cheap.

 

Non_leupold owners again are in a class of their own. Some openly covet the Golden Ring and unashamedly grab a rifle adorned with a Leupold and looks through the glass. Suitably dazzled they walk around with that glazed looked dreaming of the day that they can afford one.

The more difficult non-Leupold owner is the closset-envier. He hides his envy behind a wall of technical jargon and talks about value-for-money, quality of glass, dawn or dusk visibility, eye-relief and all that stuff. He then throws all these strange names into the mix like Nikon, Burris, S&B, Zeis, Super Sniper and heaven forbid Bushnell. This is called deflection. They just want to deflect from the Golden Ring.

So in the end this site is united. Those that own a leupold, and those that would like to.

 

I hope this was a joke, as many of us including myself could afford putting a Leupold on our rifles, but choose not to for many of the above noted reasons.  In addition, if it is not a joke, it is quite rude and demeaning to state those people who cannot afford to buy a Leupold.  Not everyone is as fortunate as yourself and at one time nor was I.  Alot of people are on a budget and fortunately for them, they can buy a better scope than a Leupold for a lesser price.  Maybe I am over reacting and this was meant to be a joke, but there are alot of people that cannot afford to buy the finest and most expensive equipment made and that does not make them envious of those who own Leupold scope or a lesser hunter or person.  Actually in a way, it makes them a more saavy shopper and they spend their hard earned dollars more wisely and thus end up with that better scope that costs less than the equivalent Leupold, frequently owned by snobbly people.



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D. Overton


Posted By: Dogger
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 11:16
Don't take it seriously Dolphin, 8shots is just having some good natured fun with this one!

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God save the Empire!


Posted By: Dolphin
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 11:18
Oh, ok.

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D. Overton


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 11:29

I did not start this thread to "watch it flame", Sir.

I don't mind you posting Private Messages sent between us (with out my permission) either, because I feel it shows that I'm being honest. (Not something I would have done, but no harm.)

I don't think you were "back doored" in any way. If you feel I owe you an apology, I'm not sure I owe you one, friend.

  

I want to know WHY this forum gets accused so much for being, in your words, "anti Leupold", Mike. Theres no hidden agenda there, my friend, it's a valid question.

 

Not trying to put you on the rack, Mike. I'm just asking you for a clarification, which you have sort of provided, and to see from the other members what they have to say.

 

There's obviously something to the anti Leupold deal you claim happens here, but I don't think it's fair or accurate. 

AGAIN...It's not just you saying it.     



Posted By: Dolphin
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 11:40
Well Mike, I will add my wicked 2 cents.  Where I live in Eastern NC, just about every grown up hunter with means uses a Leupold scope.  I have grown up with that my whole life.  I was like growing up around everybody loving UNC, which I hate with a passion.  So, when I grew up and could afford my own scopes, I did what people should do, is shop around.  Read reviews, look through the scopes and go to sites like this one.  I now own probably 50 or 60 rifle scopes stretching in price from 50 bucks to 750 bucks, with most in the middle.  I never owned a Leupold until recently.  I used my American Express advantage points that had accumulated, due to my ex-wife's purchases, to get a VX-II 3x9, as I wanted to give Leupold a fair chance, against the other brands, disregarding the price.  That was the reason I had never purchased a Leupold.  Their price scale is way off of the mark.  When I can buy a Sightron SII 3x9 for around 200 dollars with single tube construction, compared to the 2 tube construction of the VX-II at 300 dollars, why should I cough up the extra 100, just because it says Leupold on the scope.  I am finishing a custom rifle in a .243 Winchester and plan to mount the scope on that rifle with Warne bases and QD rings.  Out of the box it appears well made and is optically quite clear.  I really have not had a chance to compare to anything else except a Mueller Tac II, which out classes it optically by a mild to moderate margin and a Trijicon TR-22, which is way out of its league optically.  Regardless, it appears quite good.  Still, getting back to my point, the whole line up is similarly priced, but even gets worse as the price goes up.  I mean, when the price gets to the point you can afford Euro glass, something has to give and that means better optics.  This I know, because all those guys who hunt with the Leupolds that I know, I have looked through about every one of them and shot through quite of few and there was definately nothing special there.  Now when it comes to having first hand knowledge about alot of other scopes, other than what I own, primarily Euro models, my personal knowledge is limited.  Do not get me wrong, there was nothing wrong with the Leupolds, but nothing to justify their price.  My personal self esteem is stable enough that I do not need to have the golden ring on the scope mounted to my rifle.  However, the self esteem of many people is sufficiently low, that they seem to have to have that ring and will pay that price, or they will suffer to much grief from their hunting buddies for having a non-Leupold scope on their rifle.  By the way.  They mostly shoot Brownings around here and the same logic applies.

-------------
D. Overton


Posted By: Dolphin
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 11:41
Cheap, he is giving you the around the bend.  Personally, I think it is wrong to post PMs. 

-------------
D. Overton


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 11:50

Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

Cheap, he is giving you the around the bend.  Personally, I think it is wrong to post PMs. 

 

Mike650, in all fairness, is just echoing what others have said here from time to time.

I just want to know what is considered "dumping" on Leupold from Team Leupold.

 

No problem with posting the PM's either, Mike.        



Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 11:51

HMMMM, Seems there was a song by Cheaptrick called "The Flame"

It's as good a song as this thread.

and posting PMs is supposed to be banned unless prior permission is given.

You're lucky Cheap has had his coffee, Mike.



-------------
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 12:01
I have to admit I have heard several rather anti leupold posts over the last several years but mostly when it boils down to it the complaint is based on the fact the person just can't justify the expense. I do think that Leupold does get you in the pocketbook a bit much for certain reticles etc. but I kind of understand that they have had expenses developing those balistic reticles and marketing them and they do provide a significant advantage so price/value has a correlation to usefulness. I also understand that a lot of the mid priced Leupold glass really doesnt stack up against the best in the world German glass --- but the practical side is that you can take a scope with less than photo quality glass and kill all the deer you can eat and if you cant it's not the scopes fault it's failure to practice and know what your equipment will do. I have Leupold scopes going on 40 yrs old that still work fine, bring those others back in fourty yrs and see how they held up.

-------------

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: Optimus Prime
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 12:43

I ain't touching this one, Trick!!! 

 



-------------
He did it HIS way!!!


Posted By: martin3175
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 14:03

"Put the 2.5-8 VXIII on the Blackpowder permanently . It is the right magnification range and should be a good match.  Mount the Swaro 3x10x42 on the Weatherby ' I wrote this as a response to a request for advise on purchasing just one scope for 2 guns .

 I have to admit that  I am one of the many that find Leupolds to be fine , rugged, but overpriced products. I have a fixed 2X on a Ruger 44 , and  3 VX-III's 2.5x8x36 mounted on an Encore 50 cal Bpowder, Marlin 336 stainless, and a Winchester 70 compact 7mm/08. Each scope seems to fill the optic needs of each weapon just fine. It's just that as the market has evolved over the last decade, Leupold's price point is about 15% too high considering what can be had from Bushnell, Weaver,  Zeiss,Trijicon,and others.

I know lots of "old school" guys that gotta have a Leupold, and be-damn all that don't ( and they are way worse than those the belittle Leupold's pricing) . Mention you own a Bushnell, and holy crap you're going to hell for that one. I've sat and had the opportunity to view similar classed Leupolds and the competition side by side , and it's a close call, but you're gonna pay more. If that's your bag, then go ahead, it's a free market ! Heck, give me a chance to rip on a scope manufacturer, and I think Nikon is the pits since moving their manufacturing base to the Phillipines and definitely needs a lesson in customer service  ( but that's another story).. Leupolds are okay , and I certainly don't feel the ones I have now are a bad choice, and am not looking to replace them. It's just that we have more alternatives than ever before, and the old standard VX series may work okay , but just isn't the only solution or the best value.



Posted By: Big Squeeze
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 15:38
Hey Dolphin,,,,,,Commenting on "8shot`s" remarks??!!! You beat me to it!!!! I don`t think he meant it as a joke. I do believe that he was quite serious! His comments do reflect a SMALL  MINORITY of snobby and eliteist Leupold owners, who feel that the sun rises and sets with their Leupold scopes!...........I find it interesting that the vast majority of "non Leupold" owners including myself, have expressed favorability towards Leupold in these forums. In this forum and debate, when we express and justify our reasons why we don`t own Leupold scopes, sometimes what you get as a reaction in return, 8shots included and from the snobby elites, is nothing more than emotional ramblings and diatribe!......I notice in "8shots" last post that he mentions nothing or offers nothing as to any advantages or quality superiorities that Leupold scopes offer compared to other scopes mentioned on this thread. It certainly seems to me that if one is going to justify his belief about something or in a product, then at the very least, one should offer some valid reasons why!!! Do you notice that we don`t see anything like that coming from these very few elite snobs?..............You`ll read in one of my last posts on this thread, that I literally challenged any elite, snobby and diehard Leupold owner to comment for us, on specifically why and how the VX111`s for example, are superior to the 4200`s, in optics, in durability and in construction! I have also made this challenge on another thread sometime ago. I am not interested in who endorses Leupold! I am not intertested in what "grand pappy" thinks! I am not interested in emotional ramblings, emotional talking points or opinions which are based on nothing more than opinions!........I am looking for facts. Manufacturing and design facts, in optics, in durability and in construction which can prove the VX111`s superiority over the 4200, the Monarch and others!!!.................If the comments by 8shots and similiar comments made by others are the BEST that they can do or offer, then the rest of us can only consider the source......If you diehard (never consider anything else) Leupold owners say you own the best; well then, let`s read why you own the best and justify your opinions with facts!!.....................As for you 8shots!! If a 4200 and a VX111 were the same price, I`d still buy the 4200 and not look back! I can assure you that I am a "non Leupold" owner, not because I can`t afford one, it`s because the 4200 optically, is simply a better scope than the VX111...... If you very few and in the minority diehard and snobby, (never will consider anything else), Leupold owners wish to convince the rest of us that your Leupold scope is superior, then do so with your product, the facts and stay on subject!!! Unlike the above ramblings that we see with 8shots, let`s read some facts and offer some real evidence.............................Hey 8shots! I sincerely hope that your user name doesn`t mean that you had to take 8 shots to down an animal!!!!! If so, did you have a Leupold on that rifle????      

-------------
300 WSM/375 Ruger....."All science, is truly the study of God`s wonderful work!"..."Bad news for liberals, is good news for America!".."What liberals hate, I love!".."What liberals like, I despise!"


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 15:50
I think 8shots was just kidding around, Squeezer.


Posted By: Dogger
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 15:57
Agree, he's always been a gentleman and far from what I would call an elitist.

-------------
God save the Empire!


Posted By: Dale Clifford
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 16:00

I thought it was funny, of course its tongue in cheek. It's not a contest , leo doesn't need anyone to prove what it is or isn't -- the market place will take care of that.



Posted By: Big Squeeze
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 16:04
If he`s joking around then fine!! If not???? I can`t read the guy`s mind or understand the motives simply by what he types!!!! I will still wait for his,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,facts and evidence!!! 

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300 WSM/375 Ruger....."All science, is truly the study of God`s wonderful work!"..."Bad news for liberals, is good news for America!".."What liberals hate, I love!".."What liberals like, I despise!"


Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 16:05
8shots wouldn't do anything to cause such a stink guys, I'd have to agree with Cheaptrick, Dale, and Dogger, it's tongue in cheek, besides what does it really matter ?

-------------
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 16:09
And here we thought the Millett threads were bad, might as well add Leupold to that category there Cheaptrick

-------------
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 16:12
If he wasn't joking around, I think there are 12 step programs for that illness as well...........


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 16:13

Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

And here we thought the Millett threads were bad, might as well add Leupold to that category there Cheaptrick

 

Note to self....No more Millet or Leupold threads......Got it!!

 

Well, this ones been interesting, as I knew it would be. 

 

Thanks to all!!

Mike650, no hard feelings here.... 



Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 16:15
I don't know Bigdaddy said there was a 12 step for the BullJacket syndrome It ain't workin    

-------------
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 16:24
Was that for TSX syndrome? Did I miss something?


Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 16:28

Naw it's because I have the unfortunate dilemna of being UGA as well as GT. I'm an engineer, but also environmental work as well.

It's in the College Football Thread.



-------------
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 16:50
i dont think we are anti leupold, i think we really give stuff a fair shake and report what we see some of us see it good and some of us see it as well there is a lot of other choices that are better, i really feel that we are as fair as anyone can be.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Acenturian
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 17:02

Anti -Leupold???

 

My take on it is people on this forum generally take optics pretty seriously, hence the reason they belong to an optics site.  Leupold in the day made a very good scope at a good price.  Back when a hunter/shooter either had really cheap scopes or they could get an ok scope with the Weaver step up to Leupold and after that it was high end Euro stuff, the field was pretty small.

 

Today there is much more compition from brands like Nikon, Pentax, Weaver, Sightron, Bushnell, Burris have cought up with and in many cases supassed Leupold in performance.  I love the fact that Leupold is still any American company employing American workers, I love the fact that the company stands behind its product. If they were close and for me that would be within 50-60 dollars of the compition I'd pay for the Leupold just for the points mentioned above. However, I will not pay $100-$200 more for equal or less performance and I don't care if they are employing my great grandmother that is crazy.

 

Also, at least for me I hunt with people who thinks that the sun rises and sets on a Golden Ring and it drives me crazy. Show up in deer camp with a Nikon and people will give you strange looks and dont you dare have a Bushnell (even if it is an Elite) or a Weaver (even if its a Grand Slam) "cause those are junk scopes....So my main complaint is the people that are the opposite of this thread people that defend the product like its their own company. That and I can't stand the fact that all the magazines ( reason I joined this forum to get "real" evaluations from "real" people) tend to always place Leupold on top. Finally, all the marketing mailto:C$@p - C$@p the best I saw was the "sorry Germany you still make great beer"  OMG I bet Zeiss, Schmidt & Bender  and Swarovoski were intimidated LOL PLEASE!!!

 

I think they still make a good scope and I will give them credit perhaps the prettiest scope out there. That new gray finish is absolutly beautiful.......but then again so is the glass in a Bushnell 4200 Elite



-------------
If You're In A Fair Fight, You Didn't Plan It Properly
- Anonymous


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 17:07
Acenturian, your always a gentleman, my friend.    


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 18:40

Why is it mandatory that anyone provide evidence and facts for why they like what they like?  I interpreted 8shots' post as tongue in cheek; why automatically assume otherwise and berate a respected fellow member?  Different people place value on different things.  Depending on the intended use, in some cases, features like compactness or reticle design may be more important than pure optical performance. 

 

While I personally agree that scopes like the Elite 4200 are a better value than a comparable Leupold, the inescapable fact remains the 4200s, Monarchs, and Conquests of the world don't offer certain types of scopes that Leupold does.  Very few brands at any price point offer purpose built rimfire scopes, fixed high power competition scopes, and certain specialized reticles.  So, even if you're not a Leupy fan, if you want such options, do you sit and wait with a scopeless rifle, hoping maybe some day your favorite brand will offer them, or do you go ahead and buy a Leupold?

 

Although I can't think of a single Leupold product that I'd want to add to my collection beyond what I already have, I think Leupolds are neither as bad as their detractors would have you believe nor as good as their diehard fans would have you believe. 

 

 

 

 



-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Blackbird
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 18:48
Ok, I'll give my 2 cents worth. I USED to be a full, fledged, die in the wool, Leupold guy. I have never had any problems with the 7 that I own. But, for a hunting scope, there are scopes out there that are DEFINATLY brighter, and clearer. I wished I would have bought a Bushnell Elite 4200, when I bought a new VX II, for my whitetail gun. And the Kahles (model ?) I looked through was noticebly clearer (to my eyes) than a VX III. I still use my VX III Premier Reticle boosted 14.5-35X-50mm. LRT for 1000 yard shooting, but am considering a Nightforce BR model. And I still use my 2-7X Compact for bear hunting. Also, the Mark 4 8.5-25X-50mm. LR/T on my ground hog gun, serves its pupose well. I believe the main reason for Leupold's majority in BR shooting, is plenty of MOA adjustment, and good quality target turrets. This forum educated me, and I am gratefull for the optics experts opinions, they really opened up my eyes. My next hunting scope will be an Elite 4200 or possibly 1 of the European brands.  Hey, Rifle Dude, the new March BR scope is a straight 40X. Supposively March is making a large variable target model for the long range guys.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 19:04

Originally posted by Blackbird Blackbird wrote:

I believe the main reason for Leupold's majority in BR shooting, is plenty of MOA adjustment, and good quality target turrets.

 

...or, more likely it's because Sightron, Weaver, and Leupold are the only companies that currently make fixed power high magnification benchrest scopes, and Sightron and Weaver don't make one above 36X while Leupy makes 40X and 45X models.  Some BR shooters don't use the scope's adjustments at all and may even glue the erector assy so it cannot move, instead opting for adjustable mounts.  Variable scopes aren't used in short range benchrest, unlike 1000 yd benchrest, where Nightforce variables dominate.



-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 19:12
leupolds gold ring is a lot like a wedding ring, its a symbol, a symbol of something that costs a lot of money and after  few years it wont give you anything but attitude

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 19:13

Originally posted by Blackbird Blackbird wrote:

Hey, Rifle Dude, the new March BR scope is a straight 40X. Supposively March is making a large variable target model for the long range guys.

 

You're right; I forgot about that one.  I believe that scope is made by a little known company called Koto Precision.  Doesn't seem to be very many of them in use yet.



-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 19:16

http://www1.ttcn.ne.jp/~koto-br/english.html - http://www1.ttcn.ne.jp/~koto-br/english.html

 

http://www.6mmbr.com/optics.html - http://www.6mmbr.com/optics.html http://www.6mmbr.com/optics.html -



Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 19:20
WOW, $2100!  They must be really nice!

-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Chris Farris
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 20:35

Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

Cheap, he is giving you the around the bend.  Personally, I think it is wrong to post PMs. 

 

It's not only wrong to do ethically, it's also against one of our http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5473&PN=1 - 6 rules of engagement .

 

6.  PM stands for Private Message.  Do not share PM's without the consent of the sender.

 

 

 

 



-------------
SWFA, Inc.
http://SWFA.com - SWFA.com
http://www.swfa-ss.com - SWFA-SS.com
http://www.mil-dot.com - Mil-Dot.com
http://www.samplelist.com - SampleList.com


Posted By: Chris Farris
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 20:38

Originally posted by Dogge r Dogge r wrote:

Don't take it seriously Dolphin, 8shots is just having some good natured fun with this one!

 

I would not assume that he is kidding, because Leupold's cost and status is relative to where you are.........he's in S. Africa.



-------------
SWFA, Inc.
http://SWFA.com - SWFA.com
http://www.swfa-ss.com - SWFA-SS.com
http://www.mil-dot.com - Mil-Dot.com
http://www.samplelist.com - SampleList.com


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: October/18/2007 at 21:13
doesnt leupold have a no outside the usa sales deal or am i confused?

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Big Squeeze
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 01:10
Rifledude..............I did not suggest or make anything mandatory for die hard Leupy owners to support their own product with facts and evidence. But certainly, the attitude of a very few minority, prompt or cause me to put forth a challenge and say,,, OK then!! Tell us why these scopes are as good as you say they are!........Not only on this thread but others as well, we have all read something like;;;;;"Leupolds are the only way to go",,,,,,,,,,,"Can`t go wrong with them"..........."Bushnells? They suck!" (Yeah, in the old days).....or........"I wouldn`t own anything else but Leupold".....or......some other type of snobby comment, which of course they are entitled to make. I am also entitled to react with some questions. You have seen those types of remarks and know what I`m talking about....... Nothing wrong with liking their favorite scope product. But sometimes their attitudes become a little too snobby and pompice! What I`m saying to them is; just don`t tell us they are better, but explain to us why they are better. Is there something better in their optics or better in their design which makes them more durable, etc. etc. Why exactly, is Leupold the only scope you`ll ever own? Why are they better than 4200`s, the Monarchs and others? IMO, those are legitimate questions to ask...........If 8shots was joking around, then he could have fooled me! 

-------------
300 WSM/375 Ruger....."All science, is truly the study of God`s wonderful work!"..."Bad news for liberals, is good news for America!".."What liberals hate, I love!".."What liberals like, I despise!"


Posted By: ranburr
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 01:26

Leupold makes a good but wayyy overpriced product.  It is not quality American labor vs cheap imports.  Loopy's prices are right there with the high-end euro imports.  I can assure you that Loopy's labor cost is no where near that of the europeans.

 

ranburr



Posted By: Blackbird
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 05:33
RifleDude is absolutley correct about short range BR shooters freezing the internals. But they still use a lot of the Competion 35X, 40X, and 45X models. You don't see many straight power scopes at 600 yard or 1000 yard matches, because you can't lower the magnification when the mirage starts to boil.


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 07:12

Whoo Whee, this ones been.....interesting.  

 

Lots of good post's, observations, opinions, as usual. Our passion for optics is really apparent in this thread.

 

Frankly, I feel "some" Leupold users on the INTERNET are too thin skinned when it comes to someone saying anything negative about Loopies, or even having the audacity to recommend a different scope over the Gold Ring....  You really don't have to say anything out right negative, you just don't go along with the Leupold camp and you are "branded" a basher...(shrug)

 

I live just south of Dolphin and can attest to his claims of this area of the SE being Loopieville!

I have been witness to some of the craziest, most infantile, cultist, behavior from some Leupold folks here than can be believed.... 

 

I'm talking arms folded, head shaking side to side, down right mule headed stubborn, spit on the ground when a Jap scope is mentioned, behavior.

 

That said, I've known some squared away Leupold owners LE/Military or semi-pro big game hunters that travel the globe, who continue to use Leupold regardless of cost, performance, etc. but solely that they believe in the Leupold scopes they use and the outstanding Leupold CS dept they have come to depend on, that is if they ever needed it. Most have not.

These people subscribe to the "dance with the one that brung ya" doctrine.... 

Amen and Amen!! I do the same on some stuff in my world...Ford pick ups come to mind..

 

I haven't personally witnessed or heard of any Leupold failures in my area lately. That's saying A LOT, because it seems everybody has one!!

I haven't seen, nor heard of a Leupold going south in my area "probably" in the past year or so. The last one I remember seeing was a Leupold Rifleman that went TU @ my range on a .300 WSM or .300 Win Mag, I don't remember.

It my have been a mounting issue then, I didn't get involved in "the fix"...I just heard the cussing from a few benches down........

 

 



Posted By: Dolphin
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 08:08
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Why is it mandatory that anyone provide evidence and facts for why they like what they like?  I interpreted 8shots' post as tongue in cheek; why automatically assume otherwise and berate a respected fellow member?  Different people place value on different things.  Depending on the intended use, in some cases, features like compactness or reticle design may be more important than pure optical performance. 

 

While I personally agree that scopes like the Elite 4200 are a better value than a comparable Leupold, the inescapable fact remains the 4200s, Monarchs, and Conquests of the world don't offer certain types of scopes that Leupold does.  Very few brands at any price point offer purpose built rimfire scopes, fixed high power competition scopes, and certain specialized reticles.  So, even if you're not a Leupy fan, if you want such options, do you sit and wait with a scopeless rifle, hoping maybe some day your favorite brand will offer them, or do you go ahead and buy a Leupold?

 

Although I can't think of a single Leupold product that I'd want to add to my collection beyond what I already have, I think Leupolds are neither as bad as their detractors would have you believe nor as good as their diehard fans would have you believe. 

 

 

 

 

Ted, I think the thread of the forum was going in the direction that placed the burden of proof on those individuals posting, why they liked or disliked a Leupold, thus their reasoning.  Yes I over reacted to 8 shots post and I followed up indicating that I did.



-------------
D. Overton


Posted By: Dolphin
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 08:10

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

leupolds gold ring is a lot like a wedding ring, its a symbol, a symbol of something that costs a lot of money and after  few years it wont give you anything but attitude

Good one.



-------------
D. Overton


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 08:27

here is another thing to think about with leupold, you will never see a person who is very optics savy with a a leupold they always choose scopes made by some one else so, there are two type of people who generally buy leupold

 

1. The Hard core die hards, these cats have leupold underwear for christ sake these are the guys that spit the copenhagen out when you tell them your scope isnt a leupold, these are the guys who think its gold or nothing

 

2. The GreenHorns the new guys that dont  know anything about scopes and probably would barely be able to show you which end to look through, these poor souls get  there scopes because the salesman at the shop they bought there gun from told them oh yeah you will really like this 6.5x20 vxiii for whitetail hunting out of stand in a forest.of course they pay out the ass for the scope and then after a while of getting burned at dusk they start to explore other avenues and thats where we here at the ot come in.

 

Ot member- we are our own breed of cats, we are subjective to using leupolds in certain situations, but if we know we can use something else cause its better we will its only fair to give yourself the most advantages you can. sometimes a loopie will work sometimes it wont, i have had many gold rings in my life as has my family, but i dont think i will ever buy another one.

 

 



-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 08:28

Dolphin:

 

Actually, the purpose of this particular thread was to ask the question why this forum is considered hostile toward Leupold, by Leupold users, after countless "drive by snips" and accusations over the years I have been here.

 

Mike Yates, a devout Leupold guy and former solid contributor here, implied over and over that Leupold didn't get a fair shake on this forum. Sadly, I think Mike stopped coming over here because of that very thing. I'm speculating on that, so take it with a grain of salt.   

 

 

 

  



Posted By: 8shots
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 08:41

Gentleman, gentleman please...... The reason why I do not give any technical support for saying a Leupold is the best is because leupold owners do not know about all that technical stuff. We do not need to know about that technical stuff either, that is what we pay the Leupold technicians for. They know everything and just put it into the scope. That way we can get on with the business of shooting......

 

Man, I can't keep a straight face typing this bull any longer. This was really just a joke that I could not resist. I am really not a snob and do not think any one brand or product is better then the other, nor that affordability makes one person better then the other.

 

I do apologise to anyone I may have upset. In my defence I did put a clown moticon at the end of my thread, which should have indicated my frame of mind.

 

And Big Squeeze, my handle do indeed come from taking 8 shots at a Barbary sheep and I was using a Leupold scope of all things.

 

Once again I humbly apologise for any hornets nest I may have bumped, but it was intended as a joke.



Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 08:45
I think that in reality, There's not a single Brand of scope that does not get dogged on in some fashion, there's always a reason, with Leupold it's the overprice for what you get. if they cost about 200 to 300 less in some cases there would be no discussion. That gold ring ain't worth 300 dollars, and neither is the name.

-------------
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 08:46
Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

Gentleman, gentleman please...... The reason why I do not give any technical support for saying a Leupold is the best is because leupold owners do not know about all that technical stuff. We do not need to know about that technical stuff either, that is what we pay the Leupold technicians for. They know everything and just put it into the scope. That way we can get on with the business of shooting......

 

Man, I can't keep a straight face typing this bull any longer. This was really just a joke that I could not resist. I am really not a snob and do not think any one brand or product is better then the other, nor that affordability makes one person better then the other.

 

I do apologise to anyone I may have upset. In my defence I did put a clown moticon at the end of my thread, which should have indicated my frame of mind.

 

And Big Squeeze, my handle do indeed come from taking 8 shots at a Barbary sheep and I was using a Leupold scope of all things.

 

see guys 8shots is a good dude! hes a smart ass like the rest of us thats why he fits in so well here!

Once again I humbly apologise for any hornets nest I may have bumped, but it was intended as a joke.



-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 08:52

8shots, my friend, no apologies were needed, those of us who have read and discussed with you in other threads knew you were joshing.

 



-------------
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 08:53

Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

I think that in reality, There's not a single Brand of scope that does not get dogged on in some fashion,

 

My point exactly!!

After Nikon, one of my favs, gets it's ass handed to them for piss poor CS, I have never "seriously" considered this forum Nikon unfriendly.

 

If someone had a Nikon go south, sent it back and got jacked around for MONTHS for a replacement, then I always thought Nikon deserved the whipping....  



Posted By: 8shots
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 09:01

Further to my rant, if you look up in the Target Forum, you will see that I posted a Leupold test 1, 2 and 3, which I think is less then flattering to Leupold. If I was a Leupold Technician or Sales guy reading that test I would be a little upset. So this also proves my hopefully unbiased opion on matters within this forum.

 

Leupold scopes are indeed available in South Africa with a full agency. The supply of US firearm products such as scopes, rifles etc have just become a lot more restrictive. It is mainly the internet type purchases that have been shut down.

 

Further, and I have explained this before in this forum, Leupold prices seem to be more in line with other scopes in the same catogory in South Africa. In other words say a Bushnell is priced close to a Leupold. So the more-value -for money argument is not so strong in South Africa. Having said that, Leupolds are still quite expensive.



Posted By: Big Squeeze
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 09:28
Cheaptrick & Pyro..........Couldn`t have put it better myself!!!!.................................8Shots!!! No apologies needed! You are an OK guy! Did I get your user name right,,or what? And you were using a Leupold too???? I was joking around and just threw it out there as for a reason how you acquired your user name! Turns out that I wasn`t too far off! That`s funny!..... Next time, try an Elite 4200! You just might only need 6 shots!   Just kidding! Just kidding!!!!

-------------
300 WSM/375 Ruger....."All science, is truly the study of God`s wonderful work!"..."Bad news for liberals, is good news for America!".."What liberals hate, I love!".."What liberals like, I despise!"


Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 09:55

Same here, 8 shots. I figured you had to be kidding. 

 

Roy



Posted By: Dale Clifford
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 12:01

Actually, the purpose of this particular thread was to ask the question why this forum is considered hostile toward Leupold, by Leupold users, after countless "drive by snips" and accusations over the years I have been here.

 

mikes just out busy shooting his leos is all instead of on a forum sniping.



Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 13:46
Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

mikes just out busy shooting his leos is all instead of on a forum sniping.

 

AND his Super Snipers and his XOTIC.

"Leo's"....



Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 13:59
Dang unless he's just missin em, it sholdn't take but one shot each, they aren't bullet proof. (a little expensive to use for targets dontcha think?)

-------------
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 14:38
I thought I'd stay out of this thread, but since everyone has had their say, I can't resist participating.

I am probably one of the more vocal critics of Leupold on this forum.

That having been said, for the most part I am in the "decent, but overpriced" camp.  Leupies are perfectly good scopes, just expensive for what you get.

My opinion of course is influenced by the fact that most Leupy fans I've run into (and no I do not mean people like Dale, mwyates and most others on this forum), while fairly reasonable about most topics, turn rabid at the mention of the word "Leupold".  I never quite got that.

I find Leupold advertising misleading and distasteful, but a lot of advertising is that way.  More importantly, I think Leupold got a little too big and, in a classic display of corporate arrogance, lost touch with their customers.  I do not agree with a lot of their strategic product choices, and considering the strength and variety of competition, I am not sure they can afford to make too many bad choices.

They do offer a breathtaking variety of scopes, and for some applications they are a good choice, but for most things I will go with a different company 9 times out of 10.  The fact that a couple of different Leupold reps brazenly continued to try to bull$hit me despite having been caught red-handed, does not endear me to the company either.

ILya


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 14:39
My weigh-in:  The OT ain't anti-loopy, just me.

Long live USO!


-------------
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."


Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 14:47
OUCH Rancid very ouch.

-------------
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: Big Squeeze
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 15:21
8shots...................Read your long posting that Chris PM`d me concerning your 8 shots on that ram!! What was the final determination for your missed shots? 

-------------
300 WSM/375 Ruger....."All science, is truly the study of God`s wonderful work!"..."Bad news for liberals, is good news for America!".."What liberals hate, I love!".."What liberals like, I despise!"


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 15:22
im going to guess that the other 7 didnt hit the target

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Dogger
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 15:26
Jeez pyro with a quick wit like that maybe you should be the TV show moderator!

-------------
God save the Empire!


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 15:27

Originally posted by Dogger Dogger wrote:

Jeez pyro with a quick wit like that maybe you should be the TV show moderator!

naw, my life long dream has been to get paid to hunt and talk about guns.



-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 15:33
Yeah that would be my youngest brother and myself as well. we breath the outdoors.

-------------
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 15:34
i would say that i breath the outdoors, i love to hunt and fish i am more serious about hunting, and reloading is also a very big intrest to me as well.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 16:20

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

im going to guess that the other 7 didnt hit the target

 

Damn, that's pretty astute, there, buddy!  Just another example of why I want you to be the brains behind our hunting show concept, while I'll just have to continue relying on my disarming sex appeal to keep our female viewers tuned in...



-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 16:23
ok

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 16:42
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

im going to guess that the other 7 didnt hit the target

 

Damn, that's pretty astute, there, buddy!  Just another example of why I want you to be the brains behind our hunting show concept, while I'll just have to continue relying on my disarming sex appeal to keep our female viewers tuned in...

 



Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 16:49
thats part of the hook too, teds sex appeal to lure in the ladies and my ability to talk about stuff that i really dont know much about its destined for glory and awards i can see it now.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 16:58
you could have some of the pics from here on the show as well, right Mark ? 

-------------
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 17:01

Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

you could have some of the pics from here on the show as well, right Mark ? 

 

Uh...that depends on the pay$$$$$ 



Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: October/19/2007 at 17:04
Now ya just know if ya gonna moderate or host a show ya gonna get roasted from time ta time.

-------------
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg



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