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Nikon recoil problems

Printed From: OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc.
Category: Scopes
Forum Name: Rifle Scopes
Forum Description: Centerfire long gun scopes
URL: http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=7944
Printed Date: October/19/2017 at 06:07


Topic: Nikon recoil problems
Posted By: Shooter31
Subject: Nikon recoil problems
Date Posted: September/26/2007 at 22:20
I have a nikon monarch on my 300wsm. My groups have been eradic. I'm going to try a different scope this weekend. And yes, i have tried different combos of powder/weight and bullet weights. I was just wondering if they have any rep for not handling recoil?




Replies:
Posted By: Anthony
Date Posted: September/27/2007 at 00:11

Is this their new model or the currently discontinued model?

 

Did you check the torque on all the screws on the mount?



Posted By: brush_buster
Date Posted: September/27/2007 at 00:39
a little loctite on those screws will help I bet.


Posted By: Big Squeeze
Date Posted: September/27/2007 at 03:40
I use a Nikon Monarch 2.5X8 EER every so often as scout scope mounted on my 300 WSM Ruger Frontier Mk2, short barreled compact. Haven`t had any problems let alone from any recoil. That is not like a Nikon Monarch to have recoil related problems......My little shorty has some goooood amount of recoil too. I`d check your scope mounts and the rings to make 100% sure they are tight!!!

-------------
300 WSM/375 Ruger....."All science, is truly the study of God`s wonderful work!"..."Bad news for liberals, is good news for America!".."What liberals hate, I love!".."What liberals like, I despise!"


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: September/27/2007 at 06:15
i have had a nikon buckmaster and the burris ffii on my 300wsm and neither have had issues im guessing check everything over for being tight even the stock  screws, what weight of bullets are you using??

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Remington700VS
Date Posted: September/27/2007 at 09:10
I had that problem before and I found out it wasn't the scope but it was the mounts I was using.


Posted By: Shooter31
Date Posted: September/27/2007 at 10:52
I am using leupold qrw bases and rings, they are tight. 180gr and 165 gr. bullets. I guess i'll see after this weekend if it's one of those fluke scopes or not a scope issue at all.


Posted By: jonbravado
Date Posted: September/27/2007 at 15:43

i would try factory ammo, if you haven't already - THEN remount and check the bases/rings -

 

what make/model of gun is it?

 

i have had good luck w/ nikons and haven't ever heard of one failing under recoil before.

 

you never know though.

 

i would try factory loads and remounting first.

 

let us know.

 

welcome to the OT.

 

J



Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: September/27/2007 at 17:19


-------------

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: RONK
Date Posted: September/27/2007 at 21:00

 

  All good advice, above. If the rig has shot well previously, and you aren't flinching or something, I would put copper-fouling of the bore near the top of the list of suspects; right behind loose screws. Rule those out, and then proceed to crown and bedding issues, as urimaginaryfrnd suggested. 

  I kind of doubt that it's the scope itself causing trouble, but anything's possible until you rule it out. Trying a different scope of PROVEN quality is a great way to start narrowing things down. Now just keep us posted on your progress, dammit! 



Posted By: Shooter31
Date Posted: September/28/2007 at 13:20
Tried Win. Supreme Elite3 180grs. already, Gun is a win. 70 Coyote Lite. Bought new, fired 1 cleaned,that 3 times, then 5 rounds and cleaned, now cleaning every 10 rounds.


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: September/28/2007 at 13:48

Originally posted by Shooter31 Shooter31 wrote:

My groups have been eradic.

 

Define "eradic". 

 

When a scope "gives up the ghost" in my experience, the whole group size goes from a 3 shot MOA group for example, to being a 1" or more between each shot. The more I shoot, the wider the group gets.

A Conquest that went south on me was shooting MOA before and 3-4 MOA after 10 more rounds. 

 

Waht range are you shooting now?? Can you shoot a shorter distance like 50 yards and check it from there??     

Do you have a spare scope you could switch out??



-------------
If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: Shooter31
Date Posted: September/28/2007 at 17:34
In 5 shot groups at 100yds. usually there are 2 sets of 2 that are 1 1/2- 3" apart and 1 by itself within 2-3" of the sets. (the 2 in each set are close,almost touching). Does the same when I shoot, and with 2 other friends. I am trying a different scope sat. and see if thats the problem.


Posted By: RONK
Date Posted: September/28/2007 at 19:08
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Originally posted by Shooter31 Shooter31 wrote:

My groups have been eradic.

 

Define "eradic". 

 

When a scope "gives up the ghost" in my experience, the whole group size goes from a 3 shot MOA group for example, to being a 1" or more between each shot. The more I shoot, the wider the group gets.

A Conquest that went south on me was shooting MOA before and 3-4 MOA after 10 more rounds. 

 

Waht range are you shooting now?? Can you shoot a shorter distance like 50 yards and check it from there??     

Do you have a spare scope you could switch out??

 

 (I think he meant "erotic", but I'm not really sure.)



Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: September/28/2007 at 19:15

erratic

 

 

 

........................

 



-------------
If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: RONK
Date Posted: September/28/2007 at 20:07

 

  I know, I was just funnin' !



Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: September/28/2007 at 21:11
how do you funnin???

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RONK
Date Posted: September/28/2007 at 22:25

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

how do you funnin???

 

 

 Well, to clarify this mess, cheaptrick and I were just making childish fun of the original poster's "creative spelling" of the word "erratic". 

 

 Now, will someone with some common decency please ignore this goofy nonsense and offer something useful to help this poor fellow ?  Thank you! 



Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: September/29/2007 at 06:16
dude i totally was following your guys lead!

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Remington700VS
Date Posted: September/29/2007 at 08:35
This is more like a lesson in descrete comedy than optics.


Posted By: RONK
Date Posted: September/29/2007 at 10:06

Originally posted by Remington700VS Remington700VS wrote:

This is more like a lesson in descrete comedy than optics.

 

  Define "descrete".    



Posted By: Remington700VS
Date Posted: September/29/2007 at 10:48

Discrete: detached, separate, disconnected, different or individually distinct

  

You poked fun with the word erotic, which is detached, disconnected, different and seperated from the topic.

 

P.S. So what if I spelled discrete wrong the first time I used it, after all I'm only human.

 

 



Posted By: RONK
Date Posted: September/29/2007 at 11:25
Originally posted by Remington700VS Remington700VS wrote:

Discrete: detached, separate, disconnected, different or individually distinct

  

You poked fun with the word erotic, which is detached, disconnected, different and seperated from the topic.

 

P.S. So what if I spelled discrete wrong the first time I used it, after all I'm only human.

 

 

 

Hee hee!  This is getting more fun by the minute!  I thought you were trying to say  "DISCREET" as in "unobtrusive, prudent, judicious in one's conduct and speech".

  I was still right to slap you though, for spelling "discrete" incorrectly. (Heck, until this morning, I didn't even know what that word meant! ) 



Posted By: Shooter31
Date Posted: September/30/2007 at 19:08
Well, it's not the scope. Now I'm just back to checking the basics, and keep trying diff. loads.


Posted By: Big Squeeze
Date Posted: September/30/2007 at 19:48
Shooter31.............Are you trying different factory loads or different reloads??? It appeared to me in one of your earlier posts, that you were using Winchester factory ammo! Possible?...........With my 300 WSM, I have cut down the size of my groups with my reloads. My factory rounds gave me 2" to 3 1/2" for 3 shot groups. With my hunting reloads I now get 1.30" or less... Have you tried RL19 or 22 yet?

-------------
300 WSM/375 Ruger....."All science, is truly the study of God`s wonderful work!"..."Bad news for liberals, is good news for America!".."What liberals hate, I love!".."What liberals like, I despise!"


Posted By: Shooter31
Date Posted: September/30/2007 at 20:04
just tried rl22 67grs with 180gr accubonds. About 1.5-2" group. I'm not going to excpet anything over1" but want 1/2"


Posted By: RONK
Date Posted: September/30/2007 at 21:51

Originally posted by Shooter31 Shooter31 wrote:

just tried rl22 67grs with 180gr accubonds. About 1.5-2" group. I'm not going to excpet anything over1" but want 1/2"

 

 

 Define "excp..". AWWWW nevermind!

 

 Shooter - isn't that Coyote Lite a light- barrelled sporter in a lightweight sythetic stock? If it's the one I think it is, you're already getting better groups than you really ought to expect. It isn't a heavy varminter or a police/sniper rig so don't tear your hair out trying to get it to shoot like one.



Posted By: Big Squeeze
Date Posted: September/30/2007 at 22:11

Also too, make sure you let your barrel cool down between shots. I personally take at least 3 minutes between rounds!! That will affect accuracy!

 



-------------
300 WSM/375 Ruger....."All science, is truly the study of God`s wonderful work!"..."Bad news for liberals, is good news for America!".."What liberals hate, I love!".."What liberals like, I despise!"


Posted By: RONK
Date Posted: September/30/2007 at 22:30
Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

Also too, make sure you let your barrel cool down between shots. I personally take at least 3 minutes between rounds!! That will affect accuracy!

 

 

 

 Yes it will, especially with a slender barrel. The heavies can take a lot more heat buildup before they "walk" than the thin ones can, (with the occasional exception, of course.)



Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: October/01/2007 at 06:37

i will post this again for our new friends this is r-19 180 gr sierra prohunters out of my 300wsm



-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: rogn
Date Posted: October/01/2007 at 12:41
I was just going to post on this topic. Ive got 2 of the 2-7 Monarchs and last year the scope on my Savage ML!0 started to "two group" on me with a separate set of groups, usually 2 clusters about 2" aprt at 200 yds. At 100yds not so apparent. Its very accurate and would  give 2- 1/2" to 3/4" groups inches apart. Put another scope on and problem went away. Didnt send the scope back because I think it will be a bear to get acceptance of the issue by Nikon, but Im gonna try. This year the same model(I like the compact size and the optics) the other scope has started to do the same thing during load W/U on a 7mm WSM. Tried a different scope and the bullet holes are much closer together. Looks like moderate recoil and this scope dont get along too well. Hunted all of last year with the same gun and a 300WSM barrel, so it had a bit of wear and tear on it. Anyone have any experiences with Nikon's service dept?


Posted By: Big Squeeze
Date Posted: October/01/2007 at 14:18
Shooter31...................Ronk may have just brought up an interesting point!...... The Coyote lite that you are using, if I remember correctly, has a slimmer fluted barrel with holes in the forward portion of the stock. Well! You may not be able to produce the groupings that you wish regardless of your accurate reloads, bullets used, powders used or whatever!.....Simply stated; because of your rifle`s characteristics, the thinner and longer barrels have more flex, writhe and vibrate more as the bullet passes down the barrel. They are more affected by the term "disharmonic resonance." As a result, they are inheritently somewhat less accurate!......... The Winchester coyote lite is a stealthy, damn good looking rifle. The fluted barrel looks great too and keeps the weight of the rifle down. But, that comes with a price, which is paid for with a little less accuracy............Many shooters don`t understand, that the main reason for the thicker, heavier barrels, especially in varmit/ bench rifles, IS NOT to ABSORB HEAT, but instead to make them STIFFER!! As a result, better accuracy!.........Because of your rifle`s individuality in design, I have a pretty good suspicion (99% sure), that this is where your accuracy problem lies! A shorter, stiffer and/or heavier barrel is always more accurate than a longer slimmer one. In your case, with your rifle, the laws of physics have taken over!!! You cannot defeat it, you can only keep your rifle and roll with it..........Assuming you cannot obtain the groups you wish, the only other alternatives would be, to sell the rifle or if possible switch the barrel out. I wonder if there are other coyote lite owners out there with the same accuracy issues as you!!!.......Start a new thread asking exactly that. You may find some collaborating evidence which shows a pattern similiar to that of your own!!!................. 

-------------
300 WSM/375 Ruger....."All science, is truly the study of God`s wonderful work!"..."Bad news for liberals, is good news for America!".."What liberals hate, I love!".."What liberals like, I despise!"


Posted By: Shooter31
Date Posted: October/01/2007 at 19:53
Well, today used same rl-22 load (67grs) and 180gr accubond, changed to a 210m insted of 215m, groups shank to 1" I think some of it was me, had 2 bullets touching a 1/2" from the other 3, the 3 grouped in .342" so I will now work with the 210m and try some other loads now.
Oh, and yes the coyote lite is the one with cuts in the forearm, i'd call the barrel in between a sporter and a bull barrel, and is fluted. I'm now getting happy with it. I'm sure I can get to solid 5 shot groups in 3/4"


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: October/01/2007 at 19:55
mine likes r-19 66.5gr of it with a 180gr sierra prohunter as the picture shows

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Shooter31
Date Posted: October/01/2007 at 21:37
Pyro, what is with the anti-270???


Posted By: Big Squeeze
Date Posted: October/02/2007 at 01:02
Hey Shooter............Glad to see that your groups are shrinking down!!! Every rifle has their own sweetie loads. You just have to play around alot to determine which loads work best for your rifle. Don`t get rid of it yet! LOL!!!.............On Pyro`s behalf, I could answer your question. But,,,,I will let him do the honors!! 

-------------
300 WSM/375 Ruger....."All science, is truly the study of God`s wonderful work!"..."Bad news for liberals, is good news for America!".."What liberals hate, I love!".."What liberals like, I despise!"


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: October/02/2007 at 16:37
the .270 imo is the most over rated p.o.s on the planet, anything a .270 will do, my .280 or 30-06 will do better and i would have a better selection of bullets weights at my disposal for reloading purposes, its a good caliber on paper but it ends there for me.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Bigdaddy0381
Date Posted: October/03/2007 at 08:43

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

the .270 imo is the most over rated p.o.s on the planet, anything a .270 will do, my .280 or 30-06 will do better and i would have a better selection of bullets weights at my disposal for reloading purposes, its a good caliber on paper but it ends there for me.

 

HERE WE GO GOT PYRO ALL STIRED UP NOW LOL J?K BUD

 This is a 5 shot group with a 300wm 75gr of H4831sc with 210m primers and rem brass. This was a hot barrel group it was to hot to touch. If the gun is set up right the heat in the barrel shouldn't have anything to do with lost accuracy.

I cold test my loads and then hot test them. I know there is only one shot that counts for hunting thatís the first one on cold barrel. But I like to have all aspects of how everything works in almost all conditions.

 



Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: October/03/2007 at 18:01
nice group! for some reason 300's shoot very nicely both of mine do, and i agree that the first shot is the most important and like you i also like to know where else it may hit

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Shooter31
Date Posted: October/08/2007 at 20:18
just a refresher. Scope is fine, found my load. 1/3" groups. Very happy with load,gun,scope.


Posted By: RONK
Date Posted: October/08/2007 at 20:43

 

 Excellent work. Thanks for the update, Shooter 31 !



Posted By: martin3175
Date Posted: October/10/2007 at 20:23
Experience with Nikon service--yep--it's pitiful.. I had a 3 week old Monarch 3x9 that the bullet impacts would wander right and left...Sent it to Nikon and received a $269 estimate to repair my new scope..It took a month of emails and calls to get a response from "Ed" that Nikon would cover it...The scope came back about 6 weeks later functional but scuffed up...



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