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Scope Marlin 336 ?

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Category: Scopes
Forum Name: Rifle Scopes
Forum Description: Centerfire long gun scopes
URL: http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5712
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Topic: Scope Marlin 336 ?
Posted By: drum
Subject: Scope Marlin 336 ?
Date Posted: February/05/2007 at 18:31
Would like a scope for a new Marlin 336. I'll be White Tail hunting most shots under 100 yards some low light conditions. I want to stay somewhat compact. But have really wanted to try the Elite 4200. I like the features, Rain Guard, Firefly and have heard great things about the quality of this scope. But it does seem to be a bit large, 15.4 oz., 12.8" length. What do you guys think? I havn't hunted with a Lever action gun before and just don't know what would be best on it. Any other recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks.



Replies:
Posted By: drum
Date Posted: February/05/2007 at 18:37
Sorry, I forgot to specify, Elite 1.5-6X36 was what I'd been looking at.
Thanks


Posted By: Dolphin
Date Posted: February/05/2007 at 20:21

That would be a great scope, but I would personally put it on see through mounts.  Alot of guys on this forum will argue with me on this point, but if you are hunting in brush, in a tree stand, taking shots at less than 100 yards, iron sights will become important.  On my 336 30-30, I have a 32 mm 4x Burris.  The small objective keeps it mounted low, with the low see through mounts and when I pull the gun to my cheek, to look through the scope, I need no adjustment, it is perfect.  So maybe you should go for a 4x scope, in a smaller objective, with low see through mounts.  I usually group, 1 and 1/5 inches at 100 yards with the 4x Burris.  Not bad for a Lever action, with all the built in problems for accuracy.



-------------
D. Overton


Posted By: smitty
Date Posted: February/05/2007 at 20:41

The Elite 4200 scopes are excellent as are the Nikon Monarch scopes which happen to be on sale right now at SWFA.  The 336 is a very nice rifle.  I've been using the 336S ever since it first came out.

 

As far as the scope is concerned, for deer hunting and shots under 100 yards this rifle doesn't need the scope.  Practise with the iron sights and you will be impressed with how accurate you can be.

 

The reasons I don't like a scope on this rifle is the stock's drop at the comb is designed for use with the iron sights.  Adding a scope will require that you raise the comb to match the height that the center of the scope is above the sighting line of the iron sights.  if you use a 20mm scope, you would need to raise the comb 1/2" plus the hight of the rings which will be approx. 1". 

 

If you don't raise the comb your eye will not line up with the scope and you will miss your chance at shooting that deer or worse, you will miss the shot and hope the bullet stops in a tree. 

 

The padded cheek rests that velcro onto the butt add only ~1/4" to the comb and add weight to the stock. 

 

2nd reason is that it balances extremely well without the scope. It also carrys very nicely.

 

Sorry for not supporting the scope idea but adding a scope does nothing to improve the rifle and changes it's beautiful characteristics.

 

The only improvement that I would make would be to replace the stock trigger with a WildWest trigger. 

 

 

Smitty.



Posted By: smitty
Date Posted: February/05/2007 at 20:47

Sorry Dolphin, If you need see thru mounts you are hunting with the wrong rifle.  Your chin must be sitting on top of the comb for your eye to line up behind the scope. That's a very poor solution.

 

Smitty

 



Posted By: drum
Date Posted: February/05/2007 at 20:55
Thanks folks, for all the input it really helps. I'm just use to hunting with Remington 700's. 


Posted By: Dolphin
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 06:21
Originally posted by smitty smitty wrote:

Sorry Dolphin, If you need see thru mounts you are hunting with the wrong rifle.  Your chin must be sitting on top of the comb for your eye to line up behind the scope. That's a very poor solution.

 

Smitty

 

Please read word for word what I said and you will notice, if you read closely, that everything I said agrees with you.  When I personally place my rifle to my cheek, with the scope and rings I have, I need no adjustment to see through the scope properly.  Read my words carefully.



-------------
D. Overton


Posted By: Dogger
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 07:50

Drum, RMS has a good suggestion, very compact scope.  From personal experience & depending on your budget you may want to look at the Bushnell Trophy 1.75-4x32.  I have been impressed with the performance & really

like the Circle-X reticle for close in shooting.  It's slightly less than 11" & weighs in at just over 10 oz. FOV is comparable to the Leupold at 73' - 30' and exit pupil varies from 18 - 8mm so is pretty bright in low light.

 

Can't guess how it would fit on your rifle but on my Ruger carbine with low mounts it lines up perfect - was using peep sight before.



-------------
God save the Empire!


Posted By: jonbravado
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 07:57

i just purchased the 4x40 monarch UCC on sale at http://www.swfa.com - www.swfa.com for MY marlin 336 30/30.

 

i could not be happier.  it's perfect for lowlight (HUGE exit pupil) very bright / plenty compact / easy target aquisition

sits quite low on the gun.

and did i mention that it's PERFECT power for the under 125yrds that you would shoot w/ a 30/30.

 

i am thinking of buying a couple more of these for the price (179 or so?) - you can't go wrong w/ this fixed power scope.

 

simple, tough, and super bright.

 

my 2 cents.

 

J



Posted By: tahqua
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 08:15

 A compact scope, a fixed or variable, compliments a 30.30 nicely. I would not go too big like the 4200's are. The 336 is a nice handling and compact rifle and to throw a huge scope on it changes that.

 The 4x40 Nikon has to be a very nice scope, though the objective is a little large. You can move your head around a bit more in the tight stuff and it is really bright. I would like to see a pic of John's 336 since he is happy. That might be the way to go. If you don't like the look, a 4x32 is nice, like the IOR.



Posted By: jonbravado
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 08:21

i will try and get a pic or two of my marlin for you. it sits low and looks good to me.

i had a 50mm mounted on there (too big) and used the same weaver rings to set this one up and it's just about perfect for me.

 

i will try to get you a pic soon.

 

J



Posted By: jonbravado
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 08:27

also, in response to smitty:

 

i had iron sights and the gun was spot on.

i had a 32mm and the gun was spot on.

i then put a 50mm scope and the gun was spot on.

i now have a 40mm on there and it's still spot on.

 

this gun has killed more deer/varmints than all my other rifles/guns combined.

 

i haven't had a problem w/ the scope vs iron sights in the least. it's always been very comfortable to shoot in any setup.

several folks have borrowed this gun from me and had the same results. nothing but rave reviews.

 

i absolutely cherish the 30/30 lever action, it is always a pleasure to hold and shoot.

 

good luck.

 

J

 

J

 

 



Posted By: tahqua
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 09:02

 You're lucky to have a 336 that is a natural for a scope. Are your iron sights the standard ones that came with it?

 My Win 94 is an older model and will never see glass. It doesn't even have the angle eject. I might put an aperture on it since it is so nice to carry. For $50 this gun was a no brainer to buy, though.



Posted By: jonbravado
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 09:06

they are standard sights - it's about 25-30 years old, i think. 

 

i don't use see-through mounts, so i just left them alone.

 

a 30/30 doesn't NEED a scope per say , until you want to use it in the lowlight.

 

that WAS a good buy. i'll give you 75 for it, cash........

 

J



Posted By: Dolphin
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 09:46
Originally posted by jonbravado jonbravado wrote:

also, in response to smitty:

 

i had iron sights and the gun was spot on.

i had a 32mm and the gun was spot on.

i then put a 50mm scope and the gun was spot on.

i now have a 40mm on there and it's still spot on.

 

this gun has killed more deer/varmints than all my other rifles/guns combined.

 

i haven't had a problem w/ the scope vs iron sights in the least. it's always been very comfortable to shoot in any setup.

several folks have borrowed this gun from me and had the same results. nothing but rave reviews.

 

i absolutely cherish the 30/30 lever action, it is always a pleasure to hold and shoot.

 

good luck.

 

J

 

J

 

 

J, you are exactly right.  If the rifle is comfortably for you, with whatever set-up, that is all that counts.  You know, they did not drill and tap the receiver for no reason.  Actually, I think my Burris may be a 28 mm objective.  I would have to get it out and check.  What Smitty does not understand is that, where I hunt, eastern NC treestands, that may be in dense woods, the see through sights are needed and if that same day you move to another stand with a potential for a longer shot, you have the scope.  The rifle as it is is very comfortable for viewing from the iron sights or the scope, since it has a small objective (it does not sit that high and if it did and was still comfortable, like your 50 mm objective scopes), thats all that counts.  Different people are different.  Sounds obvious.  And as you said J, mine is right on at 100 yards with iron sights or the scope.  It is a 1 year old 336, 30-30.



-------------
D. Overton


Posted By: drum
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 12:04
Thanks for all the feedback. I found a Nikon Monarch 1-4x20 shotgun scope on the sale list here. What do you guys think of this for Marlin 30/30. Very compact 9.9 oz, 9.7". 20 mm might be a tad small for low light at 4 power but should be able to mount very low. Allso is the fact that it's a "shotgun scope" going to affect its' use. Just read the parallax is set 75 yrds, how will that affect use for deer hunting shots 25 to 100yards?


Posted By: Tip69
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 12:18
the  parallax won't be a problem... not sure about the rest.  I'd vote for a 4X32

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take em!


Posted By: Dogger
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 12:29
Drum, I shoot my "shootgun" scope at 100 yds with no parallax problem. Like the idea of the low power variable here since you stated most shots would be inside of 100.  If you have a deer popup at 50 ft think the fixed is going to limit your view substantially.  If you hunt to 1/2 hour after sunset should be ok with the 20mm obj. and it won't over power the look of your rifle too much. 

-------------
God save the Empire!


Posted By: jonbravado
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 12:42

it won't be a good lowlight scope, i'm afraid.

 

here is a pic or two of my 336 w/ the 4x40 on it.

 

it mounts quite low and i am very pleased w/ it. and it's excellent in lowlight.

as you can see the weaver mounts i have could be a little lower, but i just used the ones for my 50mm that were already on it (lazy?)

 



Posted By: tahqua
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 13:29

 John, your set up looks real nice. I don't care what people say about Weaver mounts, either. They may not be pretty, but I have used them for 30 years and they work, even as a detachable. From .22 all the way up to .375 H&H, they have not failed.

 This would be a nice set up for drum's gun. That Monarch variable would work, too. The 75 yard parallax doesn't hurt on a 30.30. I use a VarX-III 1.5-5 Leupold on a deer rifle and have not had legal shooting light problems. Either scope is an excellent bargain.

 



Posted By: drum
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 14:56
John, thanks for the pics, good looking set up. Still not sure what I'm going to do. Just called SWFA and they are out of the Nikon I was looking at.


Posted By: jonbravado
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 15:32

best of luck to you - i am very happy w/ my setup and glad i got one before the sale was done.

 

weavers are not pretty, like you said, but they grip fine and always have for me.

 

let us konw what you decide on your setup, drum.

 

J



Posted By: smitty
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 20:08

Parallax shouldn't be an issue providing your eye is lined up with the center of the scope.

 

You guys can argue that the scope isn't an issue for you but I know better. 

 

Here is a H&R rifle desiged for shooting with iron sights, just like the Marlin 336...

http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/buffalo.aspx - http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/buffalo.aspx

 

Here is another H&R rifle designed for shooting with a scope...

http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/hunter.aspx - http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/hunter.aspx

 

Notice the difference in the butt stocks and how the 45LC's comb is much lower.  There is a reason for this and all of you know it but you still think you "need" a scope on your 336 to see your target even well under 100 yards.

 

Scopes are cool and I want the lastest and greatest gadgets as much as the next guy but I know better than to ruin the handling of my favorite lever rifles by permanently mounting scopes on them.  I've tried it many times and came to my senses and now I know better. 

 

Good luck to all the scope-mounted 336's. 

 

Just wait to see how long it takes before Marlin starts offering their new 308 Express rifle without iron sights and with a higher comb butt stock! 

 

If you haven't tried the WildWest trigger, don't take my word for it because we obviously disagree about the scope, but do check some reviews on it and decide for yourself.

 

Happy shooting,

 

Smitty

 

 

 

 

 



Posted By: drum
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 21:04
Smitty, Thanks for the input I'm still taking it all in. Not sure what I'm going to do. I move pretty slowly with my hunting and fishing toys because I enjoy them so much and try to make the best informed decisioin possible. So all info is appreciated.


Posted By: Dolphin
Date Posted: February/07/2007 at 05:29
Nice set ups.  The only problem I have and this is just in the specs, because I have never looked through the scope, is the poor FOV of the Monarch 1.5x4.5 20mm at max. magnification and if I were going for this size scope, in a variable, would go with a different brand.  With this rifle, you will want a good FOV, especially at 4x power.

-------------
D. Overton


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: February/07/2007 at 06:53
this is a nice setup, imo i would never ever scope a lever rifle, i'm old school that way, i am a firm believer in brush guns dont need and really shouldnt ever have a scope on them, it defeats the purpose of the whole brush gun premise, i like a 30-30 thats either got factory sights or an aftermarket peep like a williams sight, im not knocking you at all man its your gun, and i am happy if your happy, just thought i would chime in.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: jonbravado
Date Posted: February/07/2007 at 07:58

"You guys can argue that the scope isn't an issue for you but I know better."

 

smitty, how in the hell can you INSIST that i have an issue w/ my most effective weapon?

 

the only issue i have w/ the 30/30 setup of mine, is that it's not a good long range gun.

it is dead on, year after year. and it's killed a pile of deer by myself, my father, and my pals.

none of which had any of your issues. it comes w/ holes to mount a scope base. guess marlin

wasn't aware of the serious issues in mounting a scope on a 336. those IDIOTS. that was sarcasm.

 

the only reason i 'need' a scope is i am up in a tree hunting in the lowlight of SE swamps. first light shots. last light shots.

NOT driving w/ a brush gun.

 

fin.

 

J

 

 

 

 



Posted By: Dolphin
Date Posted: February/07/2007 at 11:12
Originally posted by jonbravado jonbravado wrote:

"You guys can argue that the scope isn't an issue for you but I know better."

 

smitty, how in the hell can you INSIST that i have an issue w/ my most effective weapon?

 

the only issue i have w/ the 30/30 setup of mine, is that it's not a good long range gun.

it is dead on, year after year. and it's killed a pile of deer by myself, my father, and my pals.

none of which had any of your issues. it comes w/ holes to mount a scope base. guess marlin

wasn't aware of the serious issues in mounting a scope on a 336. those IDIOTS. that was sarcasm.

 

the only reason i 'need' a scope is i am up in a tree hunting in the lowlight of SE swamps. first light shots. last light shots.

NOT driving w/ a brush gun.

 

fin.

 

J

 

 

 

 

I agree.



-------------
D. Overton


Posted By: sherm
Date Posted: February/23/2007 at 09:54

Brush gun ? that's old school talk. The 30/30 is now capable of 300yd shots thanks to the new Ammo out. I've got 5 deer rifles from 243 to 300 Wmag. my favorite is the 336 marlin in 30-30.

what ever scope you use, don't forget to buy and use the new Hornady Lever Revolution ammo. It works wonders on whitetails, and if you happen to want to take a 250 yd. shot it's no problem. The 30-30 has killed more deer than any other caliber, don't let these guy's fool you.



Posted By: jonbravado
Date Posted: February/23/2007 at 10:13

300 yrds w/ a 30/30 - that's crazy talk

 

is it really that good? i must try it out.

 

i love my 336.

 

J



Posted By: Dogger
Date Posted: February/23/2007 at 13:32
RMS I use a turkey plex Bushnell on my 44 - love it; at close range almost like a peep - just put the circle over what I want to hit.

-------------
God save the Empire!


Posted By: wecole
Date Posted: February/25/2007 at 10:03

Even with the excellent new Hornady LeverEvolution ammo, 300 yards is a heck of a long shot for a 30-30.  I spent some time looking at the ballistics tables and shot a couple of boxes of the stuff through my Marlin before hunting season last year.  I would have been comfortable with shots just over 200 yards, but not much farther.  That is 50-60 yards further than I would shoot with flat-point 30-30 ammo.  300 yard shots would have been fun to try on targets, but I would not have felt ethical taking shots on live game at that range with that gun.

 

I ended up killing  a doe with a LeverEvolution bullet on my father-in-laws property just after Christmas.  Range to the doe was about 110 yards.  My in-law's place has range markers on the shooting lanes for most of the deer stands.  That takes most of the guesswork out of range estimation. 

 

At the time, my Marlin was scoped with a 4x Tasco.  I recently stepped up to a Nikon Monarch 2-7.  That might make me a little more comfortable with slightly longer shots next year.

 

 



Posted By: martin3175
Date Posted: February/25/2007 at 11:52

I have a 4200 Elite 1.5-6 on my Marlin 1895SS in 45/70 and it is absolutely perfect....The only drawback to a 336 is it is a bit long,but not terribly so..

 

 

Oh yeah, Hornady's Lever Evolution ammo is really good stuff. In my Winchester, H & R , and Marlin, it shoots extremely well and is very consistent.



Posted By: jonbravado
Date Posted: February/26/2007 at 09:02

good to hear!

 

i will pick up a box or two and try it out. what grn bullet's are you all shooting?

 

J



Posted By: wecole
Date Posted: February/26/2007 at 20:15
The LeverEvolutions are 160 grain for the 30-30. 


Posted By: jonbravado
Date Posted: February/27/2007 at 07:48

got it, thanks. 

 

What about the reduced "managed" recoil bullets?

 

i have heard good accuracy reports through the grapevine at 100 yrds.

 

J



Posted By: martin3175
Date Posted: March/01/2007 at 20:22
Not the hardest hitting stuff ( 125 gr.s )...Pretty much limited to 100 YD.s



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