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Swarovski Z6!!!

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Category: Scopes
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Forum Description: Centerfire long gun scopes
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Topic: Swarovski Z6!!!
Posted By: Roy Finn
Subject: Swarovski Z6!!!
Date Posted: December/27/2006 at 15:04
Z6 – More field of view, more flexibility and more safety for the hunter 

Cranston, Rhode Island - Swarovski Optik announces a new reality in riflescopes. The Austrian based company has announced its first riflescope with a 6 times zoom factor. This new generation of riflescope technology from Swarovski Optik, called the Z6, demonstrates an entire new era in optics.

The Z6 from Swarovski Optik is ground-breaking technology as this marks the first time such a unique magnification range has been developed- the world’s first 6 times zoom in a 30mm riflescope.

Swarovski Optik has been setting the standard for performance and design for years and the new Z6 will set yet another standard for others to shoot for. The Z6 scopes have achieved significant improvements in eye relief without compromising Field of View. The field of view has increased by nearly 50% in some models, while the significant increase in eye relief also ensures the shooter a much higher level of safety and comfort.

The illuminated versions offer an innovative reticle illumination construction, which has an ergonomic design providing an unrestricted view over the riflescope. With the Z6i models, the High Grid technology is built into the eyepiece for the best possible reticle illumination, well protected by a sturdy forged aluminium housing and is completely watertight. The new riflescopes have a wide choice of reticles in the second image plane, which means that only the target is enlarged when changing the magnification and not the reticle itself. This makes aiming considerably easier.

The new 30mm Z6 scopes will be available in 1-6x24, 1.7-10x42 and 2-12x50. The non-illuminated version of the scope will begin to ship in January with the illuminated version to follow in the spring of 2007. They will also be available in the Swarovski Rail. 



Replies:
Posted By: mwyates
Date Posted: December/27/2006 at 16:19
I don't get it.  FOV at 10X is 12.6ft.  On the Kahles CL 3-10X50 FOV is 12 ft.  Not much difference there.  Eye relief is 3.74in vs. 3.6in.  Not much difference there.  Sure, you can go down to 1.7X, but who cares?  What's the point in a 6X zoom?  Can you really do anything with a 1.7-10 that your can't with a 3-10?  I think not.  I think Swaro is hurting in rifle scope sales.  Kahles is bound to be putting a good whoopin' on them with the CL. 


Posted By: www.technika.nu
Date Posted: December/27/2006 at 16:40

The point of those scopes are in the low magnification range.

So for the 1,7-10X the adventage is on the low magnification, on the high like the 10X it's essentially the same as the other ones.

 

In my opinion this is the greatest scope invention since 1922.............

 

Regards Technika



Posted By: mwyates
Date Posted: December/27/2006 at 17:35
What good is 1.7X in a scope that goes to 10X?  I've been hunting a long time, usually with a 3-9 or 2.5-8, and there's never, ever, been a single instance where I thought "Man, I wish my scope went down to 1.7X".  Now, I don't hunt cape buff, but nobody's gooing to hunt them with a 1.7-10X.  Maybe the 1-6, but how much better is that than 1.5-6?  None, in the real world.  I've shot deer at  less than 15 yds with 3X and while it's not ideal, it works.  6X zoom is a gimmick; and a very high priced one, I'll bet.


Posted By: Narrow Gap
Date Posted: December/27/2006 at 19:42
mwyates, I agree with you. There are a whole lot of scopes on the market now that are getting the job done even though they don't have a 6X erector lens system. I thought maybe Swarovski was coming out with a new product that was going to be way better than the Zeiss Diavari or S&B Zenith in low light and I was wondering how they would do that and I was hoping they could do that.


Posted By: Henry455
Date Posted: December/27/2006 at 19:42
 "Correction of point of impact per click"  ".36 ft/100 yds" , I assume that is a misprint.


Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: December/27/2006 at 20:37

Originally posted by mwyates mwyates wrote:

6X zoom is a gimmick; and a very high priced one, I'll bet.

 

Of course, if Leupold developed this it would be deemed as the sententious equivalent of discovering life forms on Mars. 

 



Posted By: Okiecocker
Date Posted: December/27/2006 at 21:34

Can someone who's more knowledgeable about this subject please explain to me what Swarovski is gaining by going to a 6X erector vs. their 4x that's in their PH line.  Is it just that you can go to a lower magnification and still have a higher magnification on the upper end?  I can't possibly see that being that important or useful for that matter.  Is this swarovski's marketing machine at work, or is there really a place for it?  Maybe I'm just missing something.



Posted By: mwyates
Date Posted: December/27/2006 at 22:05

I think Swaro's "marketing machine" is up there with Leupold's.  For years they've had lots of people believing their binocs are far and away the best.

 

Roy, you might have noticed I haven't said a word about the VX-7, or whatever it is.  Wouldn't that have been the perfect opportunity proclaim "life on Mars"?  I don't think that way.  I'll wait and see what's what.  It just that marketing jive from Swaro posted above is pretty transparent if you look at the facts.

 

 



Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: December/27/2006 at 22:12
I was just funnin with ya Mike. Actually, I am very hopeful of the new VX7. Not saying that I would buy one, just hopeful that they can and probably will be spectacular.


Posted By: mwyates
Date Posted: December/28/2006 at 05:53
I doubt I'll buy a VX-7 or a Z6.  It will be interesting to see what they are like.  I did see the first ad for the VX-7 yesterday.  It was all about bigger, better, faster, too.


Posted By: Trinidad
Date Posted: December/28/2006 at 15:18

Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

I was just funnin with ya Mike. Actually, I am very hopeful of the new VX7. Not saying that I would buy one, just hopeful that they can and probably will be spectacular.

 

Great post Roy, exellent info on the Z6. Well I have seen a 6x erector before but not on a 30MM scope and I am very curious if there is going to be any glass change. I like the 2-12 configuration by the specs. I will be looking to check these out in the near future,not super exited though. As far as the VX7 is concerned it just appears as a joke so far to me.



Posted By: www.technika.nu
Date Posted: December/28/2006 at 20:44

Almost all scopes today with a 3 or 4X exector are not very usefull on the lowest setting.

Often for example a 3-12 can be used as a 4-12 as the last 3X only gives a tunneleffect and no gained FOV.

 

The 1,7-10 does have a wider FOV than a 1,5-6 and is therefor more versalite than the 1,5-6 is.

For a hunter thas rarely or never hunt with less magnification than 4-6X this new series of scopes is not worth much, but for all of us who hunt a lot on driven game the 1-7x10 sounds like a very practical scope.

 

I shoot more game on the move than I shoot standing and I am today using mainly aimpoint or iron sights for that.

If I will be placed on somewhere there the shots can be long I am swithing to a SuB 3-12x42.

 

If I had the 1-7x10 or maybe the 1-6 I wouldent need to switch anything at all, everything would be covered in one scope.

 

In my point of view the Z6 is a winner, and it would at least here in Europe drastically slow down the sales for the other high end makers.

 

Regards Technika

 

 



Posted By: Trinidad
Date Posted: December/29/2006 at 01:25

Great points Hakan. I am currently using a 2.5-10x56 S&B for hunting and I like that scope very much. I compared the glass to both the Swarovski PV and the Zeiss T* non-lotu-tec and feel that it is brighter and better made than both. My question is, has the glass improved on the Z6 compared to the PV?

 



Posted By: Bender
Date Posted: December/29/2006 at 04:44

I think that these scopes are great-especially 1-6x24-small,compact extra large fow for brush hunting,but with enough power for longer shots.These new scopes also have "American style"reticle that doesen't change with the magnification-also very good for quick shots-because on older models the reticle on the lowest power setting was very thin and unsuitable for fast target aquisation.If you got thicker reticle like circle dot it was unusable for longer precise shots. This innovation isn't much on paper but I think it is great in real world. Notice that they removed that eyepiece with absorber-it was great but it failed from time to time-it is broken on my 1,5-6x42(it has some play, and I'm waiting for the season to end to send it to Swarovski).

Just my 0,02$

 

Cheers and happy holidays



Posted By: mwyates
Date Posted: December/29/2006 at 07:50
I guess I look at it differently.  If I'm in the woods and may facea running shot, I don't want to just turn the power down on the scope; I want a different rifle with a different scope in a different caliber. 


Posted By: ceylonc
Date Posted: December/29/2006 at 08:04

Originally posted by mwyates mwyates wrote:

I guess I look at it differently.  If I'm in the woods and may facea running shot, I don't want to just turn the power down on the scope; I want a different rifle with a different scope in a different caliber. 

 

+1 Me too.

 

 



Posted By: www.technika.nu
Date Posted: December/29/2006 at 09:22

Different hunting oppertunities have different demands on the equipment.

 

On the same hunting day when hunting driven game I can have a post with maximum 20 yards shots at, and two ours later be in a high stand with 250 yards open field where animals might come slow and easy.

 

When I go out for a night hunt or long range hunting I normally have a 6,5 Ackley Imp, with a ZF6-24X72 on, but I prefer not to have more than one gun with me at a time.

Becuase if I get a gun stolen out of my car while using the other gun, all my permits will likely be withdrawn and I will not be allowed to handle a gun for five years........

 

SVD

I have no information about the glass used on Z6.

 

Regards Technika



Posted By: Bender
Date Posted: December/29/2006 at 10:25

It depends on what you hunt - wild boar hunting is quite specific and it is popular around here-there are many different terrains and you are sometimes in heavy,thick brush and shoot at 1-10m,sometimes in woods where you shoot up to 50-60m,and sometimes you shoot on the other hill up to 200-250m,and you have to hunt with what you've got. I think this scope would be great for this kind of hunt,not for stand hunting at night,or taking out varmints at 300m.



Posted By: OK hunter
Date Posted: December/29/2006 at 11:19

Okie,

I'm sort of in the same boat you are.  I don't know what application drove this product.  I have to assume that Swarovski's customer base is fairly affluent and will respond to a new offering favorably.  Time will tell.



Posted By: Okiecocker
Date Posted: December/29/2006 at 12:02
That's a good point technika. I guess I didn't think about other's applications. As my applications are totally in blinds. I'm either in Western OK where my average shot is 250 yards. From there I go to South TX on the King Ranch and my shots still average between 100-200 yrds. But I didn't think about others up north or back east where it is heavily wooded with very close shots.    


Posted By: Trinidad
Date Posted: December/29/2006 at 12:42

Thank you Hakan on the glass info. I am very interested in the 2-12 configuration and will be checking this scope out soon.

 

Trinidad



Posted By: mwyates
Date Posted: December/29/2006 at 12:59
I guess we are blessed here.  When I'm deer hunting I'll have a lever action in 30-30 or 45-70, a bolt action in .260 Rem or 243, and my Freedom Arms .454 Casull.  I always have the .454 and one rifle "on me". 


Posted By: Narrow Gap
Date Posted: December/29/2006 at 20:08
Technika, Does Hensoldt make the ZF6-24X72 that you use for night hunting?


Posted By: www.technika.nu
Date Posted: December/29/2006 at 20:19

Yes they do as they make mostly of the high end Zeiss products.

It's avalible in both civilian and military version but the ZF version that I have is the military one.

 

Probably only differances is the 1 cm clicks instead of 0,5cm and other turrets.

 

Regards Technika



Posted By: OK hunter
Date Posted: December/29/2006 at 20:51

I am amazed at the expertise and knowledge of optics found on this forum.  I learn something each time I read these threads.  It would take a long time to acquire this much knowledge if one had to do it without the benefit of this forum. 

 

Can anyone talk about the Leupold VX-7?



Posted By: mwyates
Date Posted: December/29/2006 at 21:48
I don't think anybody's seen a VX-7 yet.  I'm sure they'll be good, but at their price point they are in some rarified air.


Posted By: Trinidad
Date Posted: January/01/2007 at 16:15
Originally posted by OK hunter OK hunter wrote:

I am amazed at the expertise and knowledge of optics found on this forum.  I learn something each time I read these threads.  It would take a long time to acquire this much knowledge if one had to do it without the benefit of this forum. 

 

Can anyone talk about the Leupold VX-7?

 

There is alot of great info here OK hunter. The VX-7 has not been released yet but it is already showing some typical Leupold tactics on it. Look at its price,tube construction and power options and this should give you a clue on what I predict a future loser.



Posted By: ceylonc
Date Posted: January/13/2007 at 10:38
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Thanks Roy.

 

Any price rumors floating around??

 

Yep!  I heard from a reliable source that the new Swarovski Z6 line was going to carry an MSRP in excess of $1,900!!!  OUCH!!!

 

My source has also looked through one and said that it is a fantastic scope and very close in optical quality to Zeiss VM/V and S&B Zenith.



Posted By: rootmanslim
Date Posted: January/13/2007 at 15:46
$2000 !!!!???? I can buy a Kimber 8400 with a Vari X III for that. Dollar devaluation is really showing up as is HYPE.
I'll hunt with my old rifle & scope and go on an outfitted hunt and send a care package to the troops rather than impress the boys with the latest from the euro robbers who are donating a lot of their ill gotten gains to the Mullahs.
What's next "scopes for food to replace oil for food?"


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Vagisil Tester


Posted By: www.technika.nu
Date Posted: January/14/2007 at 02:03

As a US citizen you should not complain about European polictics in the middle east.

US is activly trying their absolutely best do disstablize the whole world by supporting Israel regardless of how badly they behave and misstreat people. Regardless of what the wests thinks about muslems there is really no reason to jump on their throats as it's only leeds to desperate actions that serves noone.

There is not just ones fault in that conflict but the ways Israel are acting is clear that they were good pupils to "der Fuhrer".

So please clean in front of your own door before you complaint abouth others.............

Enough said about middle east politics, I don't think it has anything to do on this forum, but if you are swinging strong irrelevant opinions around you, you will get them back.

I am not going to discuss politics more in this thread so if someone gets mad and wanna continue, please start a new thread in the OT or send me a private message.

 

When it comes to optics the Z6 is in my opinion the greatest invention to riflescopes in in 85 years.

And quality optics costs.

Some manufacturers like the one you meantion are importing asian glass of inferier quality and putting them togheter in a scope that is of the less optical quality level than scopes was during the 50th.

When Zeiss released their Zielmulti variable riflescope in 1922 it had from the beginning constant eyerelief.

85 years later Leupold has still not managed to produce riflescopes with constant eyerelief wish in turn makes them slow and cumbersome as you never now where to place your head on the stock and it forces you to adjust that placement before you shoot.

 

Quality optics costs, and the pricedifferance betwen the Z6 and the other comparable brands is not very big.

That in mind it's probably one of the most costly scopes to produce as the tolerances has to be keept very close.

The tolerance betwen the  erectortube and the hole where it fits is within 8/1000 mm and mostly machinry that produces the scopes had to be built new as the old machinery not was able to produce this tolerances in massproduction.

 

Of course is the scope expensive, and I am the first to recomend people to buy second hand scopes and rifles as it's the best way to get maximum for the money. But for the ones that can afford the Z6, that scope is a true winner.

I have not yet decided if I am going to spend that money, even though i own maybe 150 binoculars and maybe 30-50 scopes I have only bought 2 scopes new and one binocular.

 

Regards Technika

 



Posted By: rootmanslim
Date Posted: January/14/2007 at 12:42
Oh God another Swedish supporter of the Mullahs. One question: when they finally outbreed you and take over your country put all your women in Burkas and burn all your churches will you be calling on the horrible imperialistic USA to bail your ass out AGAIN (see WW II if you forget). Yeah I know Hitler left you alone but were we not there by 1950 you'ld all be saying Seig Heil. The Jews said NEVER AGAIN and they mean it. I'm sure when then take out the Iranian bomb plants Sweden and all the euro wimps will stand up in the UN and condem them while secretly thanking the gods for the Jews doing it. If Madrid didn't wake you up to the enemy within... well you'll like kneeling on a pryer rug with your nose in some unwashed Imans butt. I think there are still training camps in Syria and Iran. I'm sure a symathyzer with your expertise in optics would be most welcome.



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Vagisil Tester


Posted By: www.technika.nu
Date Posted: January/14/2007 at 13:31

Rootmanslim

 

I said i am not going to discuss middle east politics in this thread and I mean it.

You can trew as much mud around you as you like I don't care.

Either you keep the optical discussions to optics or I won't respond you'r imputs again.

If you like you start up a threat in "Anyhthing goes" and I will beat you in that discussion or  you just close your foodentrance.

 

Technika

 



Posted By: rootmanslim
Date Posted: January/14/2007 at 13:48
There is no point in talking to a man whose mind is made up. The socialist agenda taught in your schools, echoed by your press and politicans is all too clear to any observer. Just print out my post and save it for your children or grandchildren (or should I say "child"). Europe is broke, your unemployment and huge social programs will bankrupt your countries within 25 years and the influx of third and fourth world immigration combined with your negative birth rate will destroy your historical heritage. Ask the Persians, ask the Greeks, ask the Romans, ask the English. I imagine the Muslims will commit sucicide by shooting off a nuke in the USA in which case our "boomer" subs will reduce the Mid East to a glass parking lot BUT there's still those pesky Chinese to worry about. And BTW who makes the fighter aircraft that defend your country now? Not SAAB anymore I wager.
Hard to believe it's only been 60 years since Adolf killed himself but you've already forgotten....... see you in anything goes... this will be like a footrace with a one legged man

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Vagisil Tester


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: January/15/2007 at 01:45
Originally posted by www.technika.nu www.technika.nu wrote:

As a US citizen you should not complain about European polictics in the middle east.

US is activly trying their absolutely best do disstablize the whole world by supporting Israel regardless of how badly they behave and misstreat people. Regardless of what the wests thinks about muslems there is really no reason to jump on their throats as it's only leeds to desperate actions that serves noone.

There is not just ones fault in that conflict but the ways Israel are acting is clear that they were good pupils to "der Fuhrer".

So please clean in front of your own door before you complaint abouth others.............

Enough said about middle east politics, I don't think it has anything to do on this forum, but if you are swinging strong irrelevant opinions around you, you will get them back.

I am not going to discuss politics more in this thread so if someone gets mad and wanna continue, please start a new thread in the OT or send me a private message.

 

When it comes to optics the Z6 is in my opinion the greatest invention to riflescopes in in 85 years.

And quality optics costs.

Some manufacturers like the one you meantion are importing asian glass of inferier quality and putting them togheter in a scope that is of the less optical quality level than scopes was during the 50th.

When Zeiss released their Zielmulti variable riflescope in 1922 it had from the beginning constant eyerelief.

85 years later Leupold has still not managed to produce riflescopes with constant eyerelief wish in turn makes them slow and cumbersome as you never now where to place your head on the stock and it forces you to adjust that placement before you shoot.

 

Quality optics costs, and the pricedifferance betwen the Z6 and the other comparable brands is not very big.

That in mind it's probably one of the most costly scopes to produce as the tolerances has to be keept very close.

The tolerance betwen the  erectortube and the hole where it fits is within 8/1000 mm and mostly machinry that produces the scopes had to be built new as the old machinery not was able to produce this tolerances in massproduction.

 

Of course is the scope expensive, and I am the first to recomend people to buy second hand scopes and rifles as it's the best way to get maximum for the money. But for the ones that can afford the Z6, that scope is a true winner.

I have not yet decided if I am going to spend that money, even though i own maybe 150 binoculars and maybe 30-50 scopes I have only bought 2 scopes new and one binocular.

 

Regards Technika

 



I am a Jew. 

You are an antisemitic pig.  You do not know anything about Middle East.  Just like the bulk of Europeans you think the only good Jew is a dead Jew.

That's why Israel exists.  That's why the Jews said NEVER AGAIN.

ILya


Posted By: wildnorthern
Date Posted: January/15/2007 at 08:24
While you have more optic knowlege/experience then a lot, why doesn't everyone that wants to talk religion/politics take it to private messages/email. 


Posted By: www.technika.nu
Date Posted: January/15/2007 at 09:57

It's dreadfull to see how I get opinions that i don't have and becomes something that I am not.

So for those who wishes to continue here is this thread.

 

 

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5437&PN=1 - http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5437&PN=1

 

Regards Technika



Posted By: rootmanslim
Date Posted: January/15/2007 at 10:20
Go to "anything goes thread", subthread "history 101".
Our friend from Sweden lays it all out. What is not the Jews fault is ours.Hitler must be dancing in Hell waiting for his skinhead eurotrash offspring to start filling up the the resettlement trains again.That's my last comment on this thread, I'll confine my comments on the subject to "anything goes"

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Vagisil Tester


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: January/15/2007 at 11:07

Back to the Z6...

The Swarovski folks had a booth at the Dallas Safari Club show this weekend and they had all the Z6 models on hand.  Optically, they looked fantastic, as one would expect from any good quality optic inside a well-lit convention center.  They told me the Z6 uses the same glass & "Swarotop" coating as any of their previous scopes, so no change there.  In addition to the 6X erector system, it supposedly provides about 20% additional eye relief and the additional FOV as discussed earlier.  What they mean by 50% greater FOV, incidentally, is when compared to a typical 4X zoom scope topping out at the same power, the equivalent Z6 will have 50% greater FOV on tap on the lower end.  Overall, they appeared to be typical, well-made scopes as you'd expect from Swaro.

 

I personally wouldn't be interested in one of these scopes simply because of the price, which they said would probably be upwards of $1800 retail, however, I can see a viable niche for them, if you're a "one rifle for everything" kind of person.  With one of these scopes, you could use the same rifle for close quarters shooting in the thick stuff, where you need additional FOV, then use the same rig on a wide open, longer range shooting type of scenario.  The disadvantage (besides the price) that I see with these scopes is if you really do more CQ hunting than wide open hunting, this scope would be much larger and bulkier than the scopes you'd typically select for close-in work.

 

Technika,

I'm not going to comment on your anti-US, anti-Israel rant, but I want to clarify something you said about tolerances and the need for special machinery.  I'm a manufacturing engineer and cutting tool designer by profession with quite a bit of machining and machine programming experience.  You mentioned that the size tolerance for critical components in Swaro scopes is "8/1000mm," which is 0.008mm, or 8 microns, which is 0.00031."  While this is a very tight tolerance, assuming you are correct about the tolerances they specify, with modern CNC (computer numeric controlled) machines and diamond tooling, which is what one would use in mass production of aluminum components, this isn't all that difficult to achieve.  I worked in a plant that manufactured residential a/c compressors a few years ago, and we made a bearing that required a bore size tolerance of +/- 0.0025mm that we held all day long, and our cost on that component was about $3.00 U.S.  You didn't specify if this is 0.008mm total tolerance (+/- 0.004mm) or +/- 0.008mm (0.016mm total) but either way, with diamond-tipped reamers and boring tools in aluminum on CNC equipment, this is very achievable on a mass-production basis.  Almost all modern riflescope manufacturers make their components on CNC machines, whether they produce the parts themselves or have outside contractors produce them and tight tolerances are the norm in scope components in order to hold POI zero.  While Swaros are very fine scopes, all scopes require pretty tight tolerances to mechanically function properly as dependable sighting devices.



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Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: January/22/2007 at 12:42

I wonder why Swaro is advertising the Z6 as the world's first 6X zoom riflescopes when IOR has had the 3-18X42 35mm Tactical available well before Swaro came out with the Z6???



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Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Trinidad
Date Posted: January/22/2007 at 12:43
They are advertising it as the worlds first 30MM scope with a 6x erector.


Posted By: tahqua
Date Posted: January/22/2007 at 12:49
Now that marketing would even make the ad people at Leupold notice.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: January/22/2007 at 12:49
Ah, o.k., so it's one of those things where you just have to read the fine print.

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Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Trinidad
Date Posted: January/22/2007 at 12:52
Sneaky......


Posted By: www.technika.nu
Date Posted: January/22/2007 at 14:48

The differance betwen this 6X zoom and all others i have seen including all 4X zooms is that the others have a considerable tunneleffect at the low magnifications.

THe Z6 does not have any tunneleffect whatsoever and the result of this is a tremendous field of view.

 

Regards Technika



Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: January/22/2007 at 16:53
I agree with that, Technika.  With the brief look I got through the Z6, I was favorably impressed with it from a FOV and overall optical first impression perspective.

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Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: mwyates
Date Posted: January/22/2007 at 19:14
The Z6 seems to be priced less than the Swaro PH.  How's that?


Posted By: Trinidad
Date Posted: January/22/2007 at 19:47
Well its the same glass and they did away with that cheezy shock absorbing eyepiece,I have seeen PH scopes priced much less than the current Z6 models though.


Posted By: tbone1
Date Posted: January/23/2007 at 17:23

Technika,  older European scopes had considerable tunnel vision but the Swaros and Zeiss that I own have very little.  Zeiss pretty much eliminated tunnel vision when they introduced the VM/V line in the late 90's. 

 

I am not the biggest Swaro fan because I own 2 of them and I personally think that Zeiss and S&B are slightly better.  Having said that, I applaud them for making a very interesting innovation.  I would have preferred better glass instead but I like the idea of a 6x erector.  I just don't think that I would pay alot more for it when I could possibly get a little better optics with Zeiss or S&B.  I think the best option would be a 3-18x50.  If it were in a fairly light weight package, it could be the ultimate hunting scope for short or long range.



Posted By: tbone1
Date Posted: January/23/2007 at 17:29
One more note that I forgot to mention.  The biggest drawback to this scope is that they are putting the reticle in the second image plane.  I know that Americans prefer it that way but this is very much a drawback to me.  I am going to post a new topic on this subject.


Posted By: Trinidad
Date Posted: January/23/2007 at 17:39

Great post Tbone1 I fully agree exept for the 18x, my max power preferance in this level of scope quality is 12x max on a hunting scope.

 



Posted By: Narrow Gap
Date Posted: January/23/2007 at 18:30
I prefer the first focal plane reticle also, but Swarovski is going to naturally cater to the American Shooter and Hunter becasue that is where the money is.


Posted By: lucznik
Date Posted: January/23/2007 at 19:27

Sorry, I just discovered this thread but,

 

Originally posted by www.technika.nu www.technika.nu wrote:

So please clean in front of your own door before you complaint abouth others.............

 

We'd love to but, we keep getting dragged into cleaning up the messes that you Europeans create. There's been a lot of  "doorstep cleaning" using American blood over in your neck of the woods.  We however, don't seem to be getting a whole lot of appreciation for saving your freedoms for you... AGAIN!

 

 

Originally posted by www.technika.nu www.technika.nu wrote:

...if you are swinging strong irrelevant opinions around you, you will get them back.

 

And you are just the man to give us all the "strong irrelevant opinions" we can stand!

 

 

As far as the new Swarovski scopes are concerned, an old adage comes rushing to mind...

 

"A fool and his money are soon parted."

 



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What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?


Posted By: www.technika.nu
Date Posted: January/23/2007 at 21:46

T boone

 

Zeiss VM/V does have tunnelefffect.

They are really not the best scopes to be used on the lowest magnification as there is not more FOV on 3X than on 4X on a 3-12X for example.

But all the tunneleffect is gone on the Z6, there is none whatso ever.

 

I though however agree that the VM/V series have much less tunneleffect than previous models and other manufacturors, but there is still.

 

I do as well prefer 1st plane image reticles, but it's probably not the best idea to have a 1st plane 6X zoom as the reticle will be very small on the lowest magnification and very very thick on the bigest.

 

When it comes to new models and magnifications ranges, those four meantioned are the first four. There will surely be more models to come. Personally I see much more use for the 1,7-10 than with any other magnification range, but that said is due to the hunting I do, I do very well belive that a 3-18 is best for your hunting.

But I belives that Swarovski made the first four models that they belive there is the bigest interest for.

 

Luznic.

That is an old flame war that is closed.

I am not going to respond on that at all, and if you really want do discuss it  do it on a PM.

 

Regards Technika



Posted By: rootmanslim
Date Posted: January/23/2007 at 23:32
lucnick- dont get into it with technika, Chris will kill the thread. FYI for all: big story in the Key West paper that the guy who started the .nu ISP (in an obscure pacific island)did so that he could sell domains to porno sites. He's made lots of $ and .nu is very popular in Sweden because nu means new.(rather than what you might conclude)

-------------
Vagisil Tester


Posted By: tbone1
Date Posted: January/24/2007 at 01:58

Technicka,  I have a Swaro PH 2.5-10x42, a 1.5-6x42, a S&B 3-12x42, and a Zeiss VM/V 3-12x56.  I pulled them all out to look at the tunnel vision.  Both Swaros had the most tunnel vision althought it wasn't much.  The S&B had a little from 3-4.  The Zeiss had virtually none.  I cut it as far down as I could with pressure to 3 and all tunnel vision was gone by 3.2x

 

Tunnel vision had bothered me in the past with the older Swarovski Novas and Zeiss ZM/Z.  All of the scopes that I have mentioned do not have any significant amount of tunnell vision that would even be an issue to me.

 

I don't get how you can say that the Zeiss VM/V is not the best scope to use on low settings because of tunnel vision.  The VM/V has exceptional field of view and virtually no tunnell vision and was the best in this category of any of the scopes that I named.  A 1.7-10 Z6 will obviously have more field of view than a 2.5-10 Zeiss.  But at the same time a 1.5-6 Zeiss will have more field of view than a 2-12 Z6.  The lower the magnification, the more field of view.

 

The Z6 may indeed have even less (tunnel vision) but to me it is a solution to a nonexistent problem.  I am going to Reno to the SCI show on Thursday so I will get to see them for myself.  The may indeed be fantastic.  I think that it is great that they were able to create a scope with a 6x erector and still maintain low tunnel vision, good FOV, and eye relief as you say.  I just don't agree with your comments about the the VM/V.



Posted By: www.technika.nu
Date Posted: January/24/2007 at 03:17

I like Zeiss a lot, as you can see on my webpage.

The Zeiss 6-24 both 56 and 72 are the sharpest scopes i ever have looked through.

The VM/V is truly a great scope and my normal choise for all low light hunting is Zeiss, both when it comes to scopes and binoculars.

 

But as well as it's clear that Zeiss have leed teh optics development during many years it's also clear that Swarovski Z6 is a true winner and I am pretty sure that they will cost a lot of sales for Zeiss and SuB for the next 1-3 years before the others have redevoloped their scopes.

 

You are right that the tunneleffect in VM/v is lot less than ZM/Z but it's still precent.

In Swarro Z6 you can't see any tunneleffect at all.

 

I am fairly confident that Zeiss will be better in low light than Swarovski, but havent made enogh comparision to be really sure.

 

1,7-10 does actually have more FOV than Zeiss 1,5-6X and that is a probably due to the tunneleffect. Same thing on Z6 1-6X compared to Zeiss 1-4.

Z6 have 42,5 meters and Zeiss have 36 meters, again is probably the whole explanation the cure of the tunneleffect.

 

Regards Technika



Posted By: UPSguy
Date Posted: June/03/2007 at 22:03

Does anyone know if the illuminated dot on the 1-6 version of this is Aimpoint bright, or at least as bright as the S&B Short dot?  If it is I will buy one for sure.

 

 



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The man on top of the mountain didn't fall there.


Posted By: DevL
Date Posted: June/07/2007 at 14:17
On the 1-6x24 is the dot projected whith a simple thin crosshair beneath it (like a S&B Short Dot) or is the dot etched into the glass?  Is the 1X setting a true 1X setting like the Meopta 1-4x22 Kdot?  What is the reticle brightness like compared to the Meopta Kdot?


Posted By: Chris Farris
Date Posted: October/22/2008 at 14:44

The Swarovski illuminated dot is not as bright as an Aimpoint.  Aimpoint sights are primarily day optics or combat optics.  Swarovski could make their dot that bright but it would be counter productive in a low light hunting scope because the reticle would cause your pupil to constrict, allowing less light from the scope itself to enter your eye.  So you would be able to see the dot bright and clear but not the target.  Illuminated reticles for low light hunting need to be just bright enough to see the point of impact.

http://www.swfa.com/c-978-swarovski-z6-riflescopes.aspx - Swarovski Z6

http://www.swfa.com/c-1412-swarovski-z6-illuminated-riflescopes.aspx - Swarovski Z6 Illuminated



Posted By: Ed Connelly
Date Posted: October/22/2008 at 17:43
         Roll%20on%20Floor%20Laughing



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