1-? Illuminated reticle scope for 375 thru 458 rif
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Topic: 1-? Illuminated reticle scope for 375 thru 458 rif
Posted By: Cold Trigger Finger
Subject: 1-? Illuminated reticle scope for 375 thru 458 rif
Date Posted: April/28/2018 at 18:58
So I was out sighting in my 375 Ruger Guide Gun. Everything was going well UNTIL. I was also moving up in powder charge. I had gotten to 80 gr by the time the pic was taken . At 81 gr the eye peice bumped the brim of my ball cap. That's when everything went haywire. All the sudden there was a bunch of scrap that flew up onto some lenses inside the scope 1-4×24 SWFA SS Classic. And the reticle was WAY out of focus. When I adjusted the eyepiece the reticle focused but the image went totally out of focus This is a major bad thing for me as I rely on an optic. At 1 power both the image and the reticle was mostly in focus . I fired the 3 remaining rounds and all the sudden I was getting about a 3" group at about 35 yards. I'm really disgusted with this The ( built like a tank) way this scope was described couldn't be further from the truth. Scope power was set at 4x .The impact of the eyepiece/ ball cap wasn't even enough to knock my hat off. The scope has been working great since I got it. I've had it on my 6.5 Creedmoor .
Anyway. Does anyone know of a scope that is actually tough?? It's not like this fell off a cliff or got smacked with a framing hammer. The 1-4 Vortex Crossfire 2 ir has been working fine on my 338 win mag. Kimber Montana. The biggest thing I like about the SWFA is the reticle. I found using 36" with the rangefinder portion works great for caribou .
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Replies:
Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: April/28/2018 at 20:49
http://swfa.com/aimpoint-9000l-30mm-red-dot-sight-103880.html - http://swfa.com/aimpoint-9000l-30mm-red-dot-sight-103880.html Aimpoint 9000L in 30mm rings.
With 375 H & H what you seek is a fixed power optic, the less moving parts the better. I have a Tasco 2.5x shotgun scope on mine and it is adequate but ugly. I have had aimpoint 9000L scopes on 45-70 encore pistol and several high recoil type guns because eye relief is not an issue it can be mounted forward. Call SWFA their Customer Service is Excellent.
------------- "Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger
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Posted By: Sparky
Date Posted: April/28/2018 at 23:14
Unfortunately things happen. Anything mechanical can fail. SWFA will take care of you.
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Posted By: Cold Trigger Finger
Date Posted: April/28/2018 at 23:50
Thanks. The thing is tho the stuff that these modern 1 thru 4,6,8 power variables does. I'm just wondering if any of them are actually as good as they are advertised.
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Posted By: Scrumbag
Date Posted: April/29/2018 at 06:04
I would say something German / or Austrian. Meopta are also excellent value.
Scrummy
------------- Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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Posted By: Cold Trigger Finger
Date Posted: April/29/2018 at 12:54
Can the European glass take a beating ?? And just work. I used to run Leupolds on my 458s and 416s and 375s, 338s . But got tire of not being able to make out the reticle against a dark background. Like a deer or bear in the brush at close range.
------------- You are being watched. If it can't be grown, It's gotta be mined
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Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: April/29/2018 at 12:57
The fact that one sample failed is not an indictment of every sample. Mechanical things break sometimes due to normal statistical variations. In other words, I am sure SWFA will replace the scope for you and you should put it back onto the rifle and go back to shooting.
That having been said, I am sorta paranoid, so I almost always have a secondary sighting system available to me in some way. Since your rifle has iron sights already, I would consider using QD rings, just in case.
If you want to move upmarket to a more expensive scope, there are many excellent options in the 1-6x range. Vortex Razor Gen 2 1-6x24 has a very good reputation for ruggedness. Meopta Meostar R2 1-6x24 with 4C reticle is probably a more hunting oriented designs and it seems to hold up really well.
If you want something in the similar weight range as the SWFA, options are slimmer. Perhaps, you shoud consider Leupold VX-4 1.25-4x20, but you give some speed due to it not being 1x and some low light, due to a 20mm objective.
It does have a very bright illuminated reticle.
Still, as I said in the beginning, I would not jump to too many conclusions based on one broken scope.
ILya
------------- http://www.darklordofoptics.com - www.darklordofoptics.com https://rumble.com/c/DLO - Rumble Video Channel
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Posted By: Cold Trigger Finger
Date Posted: April/29/2018 at 12:59
One thing I noticed on this 1-4 . About a month ago. When I turn the power ring up or down . At about 1.8 power, there would be what felt like a CLUNK then the power ring would continue to rotate freely. I had never felt that before.
------------- You are being watched. If it can't be grown, It's gotta be mined
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Posted By: Scrumbag
Date Posted: April/29/2018 at 13:46
Cold Trigger Finger wrote:
Can the European glass take a beating ?? And just work. I used to run Leupolds on my 458s and 416s and 375s, 338s . But got tire of not being able to make out the reticle against a dark background. Like a deer or bear in the brush at close range. |
My experience would be yes
Leica, Kahles, Swarovski, Zeiss, Schmidt & Bender, Docter, Karl Kaps and Meopta would be where I would be looking.
(I would say those with an illuminated reticle, number 4 with an illuminated centre dot would be your best bet)
Scrummy
------------- Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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Posted By: Cold Trigger Finger
Date Posted: April/29/2018 at 14:22
Can you give examples of how they've held up ? Money is an issue with me. Which is why I don't have a flock of NightForce M8s . For me the ability of a scope is to just do what it's supposed without breaking. Tho $1,700. Is a budget breaker. If I KNEW that that scope would never stop working correctly. For at least 2 barrel life's on a 458 . I would save up and buy one asap. I've had a Burris scope that lived thru several hundred rounds on a 9.3x64,416 Rem mag and 375 Ruger Alaskan. It was still zeroed when I sold it. Tho the. Electro Dot was getting iffy and the reticle was appearing to change shape a bit. Most of the low power Leupolds I've had made it thru 1k rounds of 458,416,375. And many many miles. But eventually they went gunny bag.
------------- You are being watched. If it can't be grown, It's gotta be mined
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Posted By: Cold Trigger Finger
Date Posted: April/29/2018 at 14:25
I do very much appreciate all the replies. Thank You !!
------------- You are being watched. If it can't be grown, It's gotta be mined
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Posted By: Scrumbag
Date Posted: April/29/2018 at 14:41
Well, the European stuff is the choice for most of us over here on large rifles for boar and dangerous game (9.3x62 and .404J) in my case.
If you have had good experience with Burris, go for that!
Scrummy
------------- Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: April/29/2018 at 17:25
A lot of it is likely familiarity and geographic proximity. I have seen both durable and fragile designs from all continents.
With Japanese made scopes, Nightforce NXS 1-4x24 and Vortex Razor 1-6x24 probably have the best track record for durability, but that is largely a function of many units sold, so there is good statistics.
Much LOW stuff holds up well to abuse.
With Euro stuff, I've had good luck with Meopta and higher end Zeiss, although mid-range Zeiss has me confused. Zeiss generally is doing something weird, so I practically stopped looking at their products. Can't make heads or tails out of it.
S&B 1-4x24 that has been around forever and a day seems to do quite well.
Leica ER and Magnus seem to hold up exceedingly well.
Swaro Z6 has decent track record, but 3-gunner were complaining that they had more issues with the Z6 than with Razor Gen 2.
ILya
------------- http://www.darklordofoptics.com - www.darklordofoptics.com https://rumble.com/c/DLO - Rumble Video Channel
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Posted By: Cold Trigger Finger
Date Posted: April/29/2018 at 21:02
How has the 1-6 PST2 fared ? I was handling one at SW and other than it being a little challenging getting lined up with it at 6 power it had a Lot of good stuff going for it. Capped turrets . Fairly constant eye relief. Would like to have some of the mil scale illuminated . But all in all it seemed a good optic. ??
------------- You are being watched. If it can't be grown, It's gotta be mined
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Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: April/29/2018 at 23:10
Cold Trigger Finger wrote:
How has the 1-6 PST2 fared ? I was handling one at SW and other than it being a little challenging getting lined up with it at 6 power it had a Lot of good stuff going for it. Capped turrets . Fairly constant eye relief. Would like to have some of the mil scale illuminated . But all in all it seemed a good optic. ?? |
I am pretty happy with the 3-15x44 and 5-25x50 PST Gen 2, but I havn't tested the 1-6x24 model. I know a bunch of people who are happy with it, but they are all AR people. I do not know anyone who put it on a boomer. I test all the low range variables I try on a 458SOCOM, but it is not quite as peppy as your 376 Steyr. The scope I have on it now is Razor HD LH 1.5-8x32, but is not 1x and it is not illuminated, so it does not fit your criteria.
In the same general price range as the PST, you can find Leupold VX-6 1-6x24. It has been around for a bit now and seems to have a good reputation for holding up.
ILya
------------- http://www.darklordofoptics.com - www.darklordofoptics.com https://rumble.com/c/DLO - Rumble Video Channel
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Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: April/30/2018 at 07:26
I have a Swarovski Z6i 1-6 on my Champlin rifle in .378 Weatherby Magnum. It is holding up nicely. I've got over a hundred rounds "on it"... no problems.
------------- Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
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Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: April/30/2018 at 09:59
What exactly are you doing with this gun?
My first instinct would be to take the optic off and go open sites. They are accurate enough to reasonable distance, are almost impossible to break, and easy to gain confidence in.
If it had to have an optic, I'd keep that first point true, do as Koshkin said and put the optic in QDs, and go with a good fixed power scope (I'm guessing the gun kicks a bit.)
SWFA stands behind their stuff, they will make it right; but you are asking quite a bit of a $400 illuminated scope.
As said above, the Aimpoints hold up exceedingly well. And I have the Vortex gen2 1-6 and it is simply awesome in use, would be perfect for what I imagine that gun does well.
And, regardless of what you do for an optic, make sure the irons are good to go, and put whatever you get in QDs. In a pinch, strip off the optic and go old school.
People way undervalue iron sites.
And you can get tritium sites for rifles, or have tritium added to your existing, then they are darkness-ready.
------------- Freedom is something you take. Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given.
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Posted By: Cold Trigger Finger
Date Posted: April/30/2018 at 10:45
I may need it to shoot a bear up close or a caribou or deer at 500 yards. Generally I use medium bores as general purpose rifles. My eyes aren't as good as they used to be so I do less iron sight shooting than I used to.
------------- You are being watched. If it can't be grown, It's gotta be mined
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Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: April/30/2018 at 11:03
At this stage, you really need to converge on how much you are willing to spend and work from there.
ILya
------------- http://www.darklordofoptics.com - www.darklordofoptics.com https://rumble.com/c/DLO - Rumble Video Channel
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Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: April/30/2018 at 11:16
Cold Trigger Finger wrote:
I may need it to shoot a bear up close or a caribou or deer at 500 yards. Generally I use medium bores as general purpose rifles. My eyes aren't as good as they used to be so I do less iron sight shooting than I used to. |
Of those 2, the "bear up close" has some urgency, I'd plan for that shot first, and the 500 yarder a distant second.
And I agree, I'd go with something tried and true, with a great reputation for reliability. I know the 10X SWFAs are awesome in that regard, don't know much about the 1-4 reliability.
I think you might need to go a bit beyond $400 for something that will do both very, very well (up close and 500 yards.)
Vortex Razor gen2 1-6 would be on my short list. It's pricey, I know, but is gun/optic/ammo where you want to save a few $$ that could be called upon to save your life?
------------- Freedom is something you take. Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given.
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Posted By: Cold Trigger Finger
Date Posted: May/01/2018 at 00:44
Most of the( bear up close ) is generally fairly straight forward. But a low powered optic is generally preferable to irons. Actually . both jobs are about equally important. Also. Most of the time a low powered optic is faster than irons. At least with most modern comb and heel configured sporting rifles. I subsistence hunt so keeping the cost down is fairly important. Thanks for the advice everyone.
------------- You are being watched. If it can't be grown, It's gotta be mined
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Posted By: probably
Date Posted: May/01/2018 at 02:22
if you are worried about an up close shot on a charging bear, consider something like the trijicon RMR on top of whatever scope you choose to use for longer distance shots. the military used them in conjunction with ACOGS, so as far as reliability in a life-or-death situation goes, that is a big endorsement.
just as an example:
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Posted By: Scrumbag
Date Posted: May/01/2018 at 02:52
I have a suggestion:
If you can do it, a peep sight for helping your eyes and close shooting. (I have pretty bad stigmatism and fine express-V / post and U-notch sights quite a challenge).
What I have done with my 9.3x62 that I use a boar rifle is as follows.
1) I have a peep sight on the cocking piece for shooting driven (Running) boar with it 2) A 8x56 fixed scope for stand work at night under the moon
You in a similar vein could have your irons for dealing with a bear and your fixed scope (SWFA 10x42?) in QD mounts for dealing with carribou out a fair way?
If I'm feeling flush later in the year I might well spring for an aimpoint
Scrummy
------------- Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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Posted By: tahqua
Date Posted: May/01/2018 at 10:44
My .375 H&H has a Kahles 1.1-4 x24 with a 4A and the back up is a Leupold 1.5-5x20 with plex. Thwey are mounted with Talley QD's. Both are well known to be reliable on heavy kickers. The Kahles has superior optics, contrast and resolution, and the 4A is fast up close and good enough for any 300 yard shot on H&H worthy beast. My 1-4 SS is on a carbine and is fine for that use.
------------- Doug
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Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: May/01/2018 at 17:08
https://swfa.com/trijicon-1-6x24-accupoint-30mm-rifle-scope-21.html
Trijicon 1-4 or 1-6 preferably with the red post for up close or if distance shots will be needed go mil dot and use the dots as hold over marks by running a balistic chart in Mils then using that to determine what the dots represent at distance at the max power of the scope. (2nd focal plane the mil dots will only be true at max power or a specific power selected by the manufacturer) I have a 1-4 Accupoint Trijicon that I am very happy with is been on 300 Win Mag and others.
------------- "Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger
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Posted By: Cold Trigger Finger
Date Posted: May/02/2018 at 22:07
I was wondering about the Trigicon. Pretty good looking scope. I've used the M8 3 power Leupold quite a bit. But it sucks in low light. Which we have lots of in Alaska. The 1-4×20 Vari X 2 I used for years did OK as far as holding up for a several years. But again it sucked in low light. It did live thru a fair thrashing on my 458 and on a 416 Taylor. But eventually it went to $μ¡+. I think I'll get a Vortex Crossfire 2 1-4 ×24 with the V Bright reticle. Save my money for a PST2 1-6 mil/mil.
------------- You are being watched. If it can't be grown, It's gotta be mined
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Posted By: Shenko
Date Posted: May/02/2018 at 23:13
'It sucked in low light.' Small objectives suck in low light. So, don't go with a cheap scope with a small objective. Go with a good scope with a bigger objective, and turn up the magnification enough to take advantage of the bigger objective.
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Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: May/02/2018 at 23:14
I do not know of Crossfire will do all that well on a heavy kicker, but anything is possible.
If you are looking for better low light, as always, price goes up, so I do not know how happy you will be with the Crossfire. On the other hand, it is an inexpensive experiment.
I remember years ago, Bushnell used to make Elite 1.25-4x24 scope with an illuminated dot and #4 reticle. That would have been a nearly perfect scope for you. I used one for quite a while, but eventually sold it since I like to try new stuff.
I just noticed that SWFA has a sale on the VX-R 1.25-4x20 for $500 with an AR style mount for $500. You can probably sell th emount on Ebay for $100 or so and the scope will only run you $400. That is a good deal for a VX-R.
ILya
------------- http://www.darklordofoptics.com - www.darklordofoptics.com https://rumble.com/c/DLO - Rumble Video Channel
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Posted By: Scrumbag
Date Posted: May/03/2018 at 02:46
I have a VX-R scout scope on my .44 mag (1.5-5x33) and must admit I like it
I think straight tubes and low light will never be friends...
------------- Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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Posted By: Scrumbag
Date Posted: May/03/2018 at 02:48
Thinking about it, if you could find the 1.6-8x42 Kahles that would be a great scope...
------------- Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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Posted By: tahqua
Date Posted: May/03/2018 at 10:11
Getting back to the illumination, I also have a 1.1-4x24 Kahles with illuminated C-Dot. It presently sits on a Ruger #1 in 45-70. This gun can kick with heavy loads but they don't kick like the rounds being talked about. If the illumination fails the C-Dot is still usable. The reason I have that scope on the 45-70 is, one the gun doesn't punish the scope and secondly I am concerned about the reliability of the illumination if I put it on my .375 H&H. The 1.1-4x24 with 4A on the H&H is very good in low light and in the thick stuff bear hang out. There are plenty of good suggestions here but I would be concerned about electronic illumination on a heavy kicker. Trijicon is another story, though.
------------- Doug
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Posted By: Cold Trigger Finger
Date Posted: May/03/2018 at 21:10
By sucking in low light . What I mean is not being able to see the center of the reticle . Illuminated reticles solve that problem. As long as they work. One reason I was thinking about the Trigicon. , apparently they don't need batteries . ???? Don't know for sure tho as I've never looked thru one. A HUGE thing the Vortex has going for it is 4" of eye relief !!!! And , as near as I know , even the Crossfire 2 1-4 has an etched reticle. !! The PST2 1-6 has 4" eye relief or very close to it also. And a mil scale . And illumination. And undercover turrets on the mil/mil scope. It is on the short list.
------------- You are being watched. If it can't be grown, It's gotta be mined
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Posted By: tahqua
Date Posted: May/05/2018 at 08:51
I can see the etched 4A in all legal hunting light and all conditions and cover. TrijiconAccuPoint doesn't need batteries, Accupower does.
------------- Doug
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Posted By: Cold Trigger Finger
Date Posted: May/06/2018 at 00:31
Thank you. The Accu Point doesn't take batteries. That's good to know. So I was looking at the Leatherwood CMR line at SWFA. Unfortunately the 1-4 only lists 3" of eye relief. The 1-8 does have 4" so that short lists that scope.
------------- You are being watched. If it can't be grown, It's gotta be mined
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Posted By: Cold Trigger Finger
Date Posted: May/27/2018 at 13:52
So , in my studying I think the Nikon Black Force 1000 1-4 ×24 should work . At least for the time being. On Accurate Reloading there are several guys that are Big Recoil hogs! Regularly shoot rifles I wouldn't even think about shooting. They went thru the Leupold phase and went to Nikon. Monarch's and Muzzle Loader/Inline scopes and haven't had a problem with the scopes retaining zero. One just got the 1-4 Black Force and is putting it on a 458 Win mag running full pressure loads . It will be interesting to see his results
------------- You are being watched. If it can't be grown, It's gotta be mined
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Posted By: Paladin155
Date Posted: June/06/2018 at 21:51
I learned my lesson mounting scopes on heavy kickers. Anybody can mount a scope on a .223 or a .308. When you start to go over 3000 ft/lbs of ME your mounting has to be right and as the ME rises the problem gets worse quick. You can kill any improperly installed scope. Regardless of the ring/mount set-up the rings have to be lapped. Not so much to get maximum contact between the ring and scope tube to prevent slipping, but to insure both rings are one the same plane. You mount the scope in a bind and it will not last long. For a two-piece scope mount when I'm trying to save weight I like the Talley Lightweights. If you want the convenience of being able to quickly remove the scope I like to use Burris Xtreme Tactical two-piece bases. When it comes to bases I look for full width cross slots and preferably steel. For a one-piece base my go to is a Murphy but have used EGW's HD line. Scope weight (including rings) plays a factor also. The more weight (mass) the more strain on the rings recoil lug and even the scope mount screws. You mount a big heavy honker like a Vortex Razor (40+ oz) on a rifle kicking with 5000 ft/lbs and you can snap 6-48s. As far as rings since I use mainly picatinny mounts I make sure to use picatinny rings. You want the larger crossbolt that fits the slot in the mount. I also mount bigger scopes so I like a lot of contact to prevent the tube slipping so the 6 screw style rings are my choice.
As far as scope, a lot of good recommendations. You really do not need to spend big bucks for a Euro scope (I've seen a fair share of dead Zeiss scopes) but you do need a quality scope. The less weight of a 1-4X would be an advantage. Avoid things that can break like electronics, side focus. Also look for etched reticle instead of wire and if possible one that is FFP. If any lens shifts in front of the reticle the POI will change. The favorite term of the scope manufacturers when you ask what went wrong with the scope you returned is "loss of collimation", basically a lens came loose. So the less lenses in front of the reticle the better. In the old days they use to say a scope had a lot of "reticle float". No, just lenses floating around. The best recommendation I liked for a guide gun that may take a beating, the ACOG! Might not be pretty but they always seemed to be tougher then a cheap steak to me while I was in the service.
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