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SLC neu vs current optics

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Category: Other Optics
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Printed Date: June/22/2018 at 23:34
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Topic: SLC neu vs current optics
Posted By: probably
Subject: SLC neu vs current optics
Date Posted: February/10/2018 at 14:22
Hello guys. I'm considering a pre-HD swarovski SLC 10x42 in very nice shape.  It seems to have all the features that my old 2006 EL's had. 

But It's now a decade later and there have been many optical improvements.  Is it wise to buy a 10 year old bino for serious money when there might be something even better out there for less. 

This will be for hunting.  My old EL's could pick out a deer nose sticking out from behind a tree at 500 yards, so I want to have that again.  I also want brightness in low light.   Any of the birding or star watching features are unimportant to me.

For comparison,  I have a pair of CL 8x30's which are nice, but the image is slightly hazy compared to the top line swaros.  Also have zen ray ED3's and the Meopro 10x42 HD, which I feel is a substantially lesser image than my old EL's. 

I'm not interested in Vortex, Leupold, or Nikon.  I've looked through these guys and don't think they are in the swaro ballpark; in fact I think my CL or Meopro is superior to them.  But for my purposes, am I losing anything by going with a 10 yr old, $1300 optic compared to some other new bino? 

thanks for any input.   



Replies:
Posted By: anweis
Date Posted: February/10/2018 at 15:57
The SLC neu was easily on par optically with the ELs.
I had a SLC neu and an EL at the same time for a while, both 8x30/32. I preferred the optics of the SLC. The problem was that it had the focuser on the wrong end.
Just get a good pre-owned EL 10x42. You miss them. You liked them.


Posted By: probably
Date Posted: February/10/2018 at 16:50
Originally posted by anweis anweis wrote:

The SLC neu was easily on par optically with the ELs.
I had a SLC neu and an EL at the same time for a while, both 8x30/32. I preferred the optics of the SLC. The problem was that it had the focuser on the wrong end.
Just get a good pre-owned EL 10x42. You miss them. You liked them.

the SLC neus seem to be more available than the older EL's, and a little cheaper, but I would certainly take a nice set of EL's if I saw them for a good price.  My concern is buying yet another pair of binoculars and realizing afterwards that I could have done better for the same price.

clarity of image and low light are the concerns that I want to address with what I hope will be my final set of binos.  differentiating shades of color on a birdwing is not important at all.   Which makes so many binocular reviews online useless to me, for my needs. 

So I just wonder if I'm doing the right thing with an older EL or (non HD) SLC neu for my whitetail-hunting-only use.   Or would something like the Kowa blow the doors off it, for the same price?  Or even the Meostar?  My meopro HD (which I thought would be the equal of the old EL's) does not impress me. 

Also, I forget if my EL's were fogproof and moisture resistant? Is the SLC neu?  Hunting in falling snow is challenging for many binoculars. 

thanks for any and all info. 


Posted By: Grubbs
Date Posted: February/10/2018 at 19:30
I had the 10x42 SLCneu and thought it was very nice. I also have the Meopta Meostar 10x42HD and think it is a notch above the SLCneu.  I had my Meopta side by side on a tripod with my SLC HD, both  10x42's, and I can see very little difference between the two.  If you are really wanting to stick with a Swaro, watch ebay, as you can occasionally find the SLC HD's for around $1300 or so.  


Posted By: gdpolk
Date Posted: February/11/2018 at 08:00
The newer ELs are a little better optically than the SLCs. The emphasis is "a little" and honestly for a whitetail hunter the difference is not significant enough to make the difference in seeing the animal vs not or counting tines to verify shooter vs not.

In all honesty though, I'm currently using the 8x30 CL companions for hunting and couldn't be happier with them in that role. They certainly aren't as nice as the truly top end glass but they don't have to be for my use. I can locate and identify animals before/after legal shooting light in heavy timber on cloudy days: that's more than enough light transmission. I can ID antler tines vs sticks at 500yds, count tines or estimate a turkeys beard length across a field, and pick out squirrels in brush over 100yds away: that's good enough contrast, clarity, and resolution. The 8x has a wider FOV which is really helpful for timber hunting and the glass is good enough that I don't feel I need the 10x for seeing what I need to within 500yds, which is the farthest that I would shoot in the field anyway. They are SMALL and LIGHT which is great for bowhunting and/or packing in, both of which I do regularly. And they are just big enough that I can hold them steady for long glassing times and operate them with gloves on, unlike the truly compact or pocket class of binoculars. Your needs and preferences may vary but to me the CL Companion is, all things considered, the best optic on the market for hunting (particularly if your a mobile bowhunter). I wouldn't want to pack the added bulk/weight of full size binoculars for hunting unless I were going to do some long range mountain shooting at goats or moose or something and I NEEDED a rangefinder feature in my glass. Then I like both the ELs and Leica rangefinder binoculars about the same.


Posted By: WJC
Date Posted: February/11/2018 at 20:03
@font-face { font-family: "Cambria Math"; }@font-face { font-family: "Calibri"; }p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; }.MsoChpDefault { }div.WordSection1 { }

I’m a stick in the mud when it comes to binoculars because I want folks to be able to choose for themselves which path they will choose—fact or fiction.

Over the past 50 years, there have been hundreds of “improvements” in optical/binocular technology to cause observers to go weak in the knees. However, if EACH “improvement” offered only a ¼ percent increase in image quality 100-millimeter objectives could be housed in 30mm cells, would provide photographically flat, aberration-free images, would weigh as much as 4 postage stamps, and would allow the observer to see events days BEFORE they happen.

In addition, even some experience observers claim to be able to see things that can’t be seen by humans. For example:

From page 34 of BINOCULARS: Fallacy & Fact

“Frequently, when an observer suggests one manufacturer’s AR coatings are noticeably superior to those of another brand of similar quality, the difference he or she is seeing probably relates more to baffling, prism shields, edge blackening, size and position of the field stop, knife-edge on that stop, prism type, slotted prisms (in Porro prism instruments), configuration of the eyepiece, and other considerations than coatings alone.”

‘Just thought you should know.

Bill

 



-------------
"What lies behind you and what lies before you are tiny matters compared to what lies within you."—Ralph Waldo Emerson


Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: February/11/2018 at 20:27
I have a pair of 7x42 SLC nue's and they're fantastic, right up there optically with my 10x42 EL's. Colors pop looking through them, I just hate the focus wheel of the SLC's, the EL's are more hunter friendly when focusing and lighter too.


-------------
Fish to Live, Live to Hunt


Posted By: probably
Date Posted: February/11/2018 at 20:56
Originally posted by mike650 mike650 wrote:

I have a pair of 7x42 SLC nue's and they're fantastic, right up there optically with my 10x42 EL's. Colors pop looking through them, I just hate the focus wheel of the SLC's, the EL's are more hunter friendly when focusing and lighter too.

thanks for the help, guys. 

My 2007 circa EL's were fantastic.  The image was clear, sharp, and just jumped out.  Everything I read claims that the SLC's from the same time period were every bit the equal of the EL's, optically.  But the problem is, I'm remembering glasses I have not held for 8 years. 

So now, I'm wondering how they would compare side by side with the newer technology out there.  Would my old EL's (or the slc neu) be inferior to a new Meostar?  Are the newest generation SLC's so far and away better that I'd be foolish to buy a ten year old "neu" model for only a few hundred less?

I often read the comparisons on the allbinos site.  They rate the 10 year old Neu model better than the current generation Loco.   So have binoculars gotten worse since then or are they comparing apples to oranges? 

Again, I want that white of the deer nose and antlers to pop out at me like a flag from 400 yards on an overcast day as it stands in thick cover, with an image that is as sharp and clear as humanly possible. Just like I remember my old EL's doing.  I don't need the latest tech that brings out various shades of blues in a birdwing.

@koshkin or any other optic tester - what are your thoughts on an apples-to-apples comparison between the SLC neu and something current?   


Posted By: probably
Date Posted: February/11/2018 at 21:38
Originally posted by gdpolk gdpolk wrote:

The newer ELs are a little better optically than the SLCs. The emphasis is "a little" and honestly for a whitetail hunter the difference is not significant enough to make the difference in seeing the animal vs not or counting tines to verify shooter vs not.

In all honesty though, I'm currently using the 8x30 CL companions for hunting and couldn't be happier with them in that role. They certainly aren't as nice as the truly top end glass but they don't have to be for my use. I can locate and identify animals before/after legal shooting light in heavy timber on cloudy days: that's more than enough light transmission. I can ID antler tines vs sticks at 500yds, count tines or estimate a turkeys beard length across a field, and pick out squirrels in brush over 100yds away: that's good enough contrast, clarity, and resolution. The 8x has a wider FOV which is really helpful for timber hunting and the glass is good enough that I don't feel I need the 10x for seeing what I need to within 500yds, which is the farthest that I would shoot in the field anyway. They are SMALL and LIGHT which is great for bowhunting and/or packing in, both of which I do regularly. And they are just big enough that I can hold them steady for long glassing times and operate them with gloves on, unlike the truly compact or pocket class of binoculars. Your needs and preferences may vary but to me the CL Companion is, all things considered, the best optic on the market for hunting (particularly if your a mobile bowhunter). I wouldn't want to pack the added bulk/weight of full size binoculars for hunting unless I were going to do some long range mountain shooting at goats or moose or something and I NEEDED a rangefinder feature in my glass. Then I like both the ELs and Leica rangefinder binoculars about the same.

My 8x30 CL's are great for being a very small, lightweight bino that gives good quality images.  I'd probably rate them in the same optical ballpark as my zen ray ed3's which are much bigger and heavier, and which tend to fog up far easier.   But in adverse conditions, my CL is still limited.  It's not true alpha glass, and sometimes the image I get is not clear enough when I see deer in heavy cover under less than ideal conditions.  

So if I do most of my hunting from a treestand anyway, and limit the still hunting to the mile walk back and forth, I think the larger binos will fit what I need better and allow me to pick out the racks quicker, rather than straining and focusing on something that turns out to be a doe with branches or smaller buck, as the rest of the group disappears and the big one gets away. 

I picked up a meopro 10x42 HD, thinking that with all the improvements, it would give an image very close to my old EL's (based on other people's on-line comments) but I just do not find that to be true.  And I'd really like to avoid another mistake.  Buying 5 or 6 k worth of binoculars and then keeping the best one isn't really an option, so I'm just hoping to do my homework and save disappointment.  


Posted By: probably
Date Posted: February/11/2018 at 23:51
okay guys, thanks again for all the input.

I eventually found some direct comparisons on the web, between the old swaros and the meostar HD's.  So I guess the neus are out of the running, for their higher price. 

and I read some comparisons between the meostar HD's and the latest SLC's.   


now to find a store which has both and test ergonomics.  




Posted By: anweis
Date Posted: February/12/2018 at 20:40
probably:
you are trying to save a few hundred dollars on the purchase of a luxury, high performance, high longevity, high subjectivity, instrument, Yet, clearly, you can afford any binoculars.
Put it this way: whatever binoculars you purchase, it will last 20 years and will end up costing you about $100/year or less. That is 5 times less than you are paying for your phone right now. A great well chosen binoculars will bring you satisfaction every time you use it. Ten years after the purchase the price will be irrelevant.

First of all, my advice would be to get a 8x, rather than 10x. Second, get the top dog model and be done with it.

Get the  8.5 EL SV. Done.

 


Posted By: gdpolk
Date Posted: February/12/2018 at 21:00
Based off of the above comments, I'd just skip the used market all together and pick up one of the following and use it for the rest of your life knowing that it will be the creme of the crop as of today and perform at above 95% of anything else made within your lifetime for the rest of your life:
  • No rangefinder, 8.5x
    • https://www.swarovskioptik.com/hunting/el-42-c20011001/el-8p5x42-p5222897
  • With rangefinder, 8x
    • https://www.swarovskioptik.com/hunting/el-range-c20010201/el-range-8x42-p5191943

There are other binoculars out there similar in quality to these two, but the color rendition of Swaro's is superb in the field and their customer service is pretty fantastic to boot.



Posted By: NDhunter
Date Posted: February/12/2018 at 21:46

Originally posted by anweis anweis wrote:

probably:
you are trying to save a few hundred dollars on the purchase of a luxury, high performance, high longevity, high subjectivity, instrument, Yet, clearly, you can afford any binoculars.
Put it this way: whatever binoculars you purchase, it will last 20 years and will end up costing you about $100/year or less. That is 5 times less than you are paying for your phone right now. A great well chosen binoculars will bring you satisfaction every time you use it. Ten years after the purchase the price will be irrelevant.

First of all, my advice would be to get a 8x, rather than 10x. Second, get the top dog model and be done with it.

Get the  8.5 EL SV. Done.

 

Probably:

I am quoting anweis, as I agree with his thoughts.  I have experience with several Swarovski's

including the 10x42 SLC, the NEU, and the 8.5x42 EL and the current Swarovision.

The older 10x42 SLC is very good, and it is very bright, and the swarobright versions will do

very well compared against any of the newer midrange models. 

The EL model has the nice open frame handling which I like and is a step up. 

If you have $1K to spend, then don't settle for a Meopta, they are just  midrange, the EL is a

step up, and you would enjoy the better ergos. and brightness of the Swarovski models.

That includes a later model SLC, and Neu.



Posted By: probably
Date Posted: February/12/2018 at 22:05
thanks guys, I was actually gravitating towards the 8x42 but possibly in the SLC model.  

It is difficult to find the technical history of swarovski online in order to get a breakdown of innovations and improvements over the years, but I did just come across a dutch website which, when translated, had a link to van Ginkel's technical reports. Unfortunately the report ends around 2011 with the EL SV's and the SLC HD's, so whatever improvements were made (strap connections and relocation of logo??) since then is not discussed. 

http://www.houseofoutdoor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/HISTORY-AND-QUALITY-DEVELOPMENT-OF-SWAROVSKI-OPTIK-1935-TO-THE-PRESENT-TIME..pdf


Posted By: NDhunter
Date Posted: February/12/2018 at 22:11

You can do research and then you can come to what works for many.

In the midrange , the Zeiss Conquest HD models are very good. If you like

low light brightness, these models rise to the top. 

I am not trying to confuse you, I am just commenting about binoculars I use.

I don't play favorites.



Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/12/2018 at 23:23
Look at the high end Leica’s and Zeiss too, don’t just be stuck on swaro’s. Different eyes prefer different brands. Try to take them outside the atore to compare. It makes a world of diff. Ergonomics are huge as well

-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: February/13/2018 at 07:13
Originally posted by mike650 mike650 wrote:

I have a pair of 7x42 SLC nue's and they're fantastic, right up there optically with my 10x42 EL's. Colors pop looking through them, I just hate the focus wheel of the SLC's, the EL's are more hunter friendly when focusing and lighter too.


We were talking older SLC’s, I should have added that both my Swaro binos are older models around the time they introduced Swaroclean (hydrophobic coating).... ‘06 or ‘07? They’ve greatly improved both lines since then.

+1 check out Leica too.

-------------
Fish to Live, Live to Hunt


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: February/13/2018 at 11:05
To my eye, Leica Noctivid is the best binocular on the market today.

ILya

-------------
http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://fb.me/DarkLordOfOptics - Facebook
The greatest obstacle to discovery is the illusion of knowledge


Posted By: probably
Date Posted: February/16/2018 at 13:06
thanks for all the info guys. I decided to go with a new 10x42 EL.

I might pick up an older SLC at some point. an 8x50 or something, but for now the EL should do everything I need a binocular to do. 


Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: February/16/2018 at 14:08
The old 10x50 SLC nue are awesome... though heavy for field work (walking n stalking)

-------------
Fish to Live, Live to Hunt


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: February/16/2018 at 14:31
Though maybe not the best value for their hefty price tags, the good news about all of the upper tier, so-called “alpha” binos mentioned is you can’t make a bad choice, even if you choose one that isn’t the “ultimate” match to your eyes. The differences between them optically will be minuscule to most people, and those differences will boil down to personal preferences, not necessarily borne out of technical superiority of one over the other. I really believe when you get into this class of optic, things like form factor/ergos, eyecup comfort, focuser speed and feel, etc is as or more important than optical performance. At this level, they are all optically stunning.

-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: JGRaider
Date Posted: February/16/2018 at 15:57
Right on Rifle.  


Posted By: Whitefire
Date Posted: February/17/2018 at 08:35
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Though maybe not the best value for their hefty price tags, the good news about all of the upper tier, so-called “alpha” binos mentioned is you can’t make a bad choice, even if you choose one that isn’t the “ultimate” match to your eyes. The differences between them optically will be minuscule to most people, and those differences will boil down to personal preferences, not necessarily borne out of technical superiority of one over the other. I really believe when you get into this class of optic, things like form factor/ergos, eyecup comfort, focuser speed and feel, etc is as or more important than optical performance. At this level, they are all optically stunning.

I couldn't have said it better, as JG stated, "right on...".
Wf

-------------
May His face shine upon you and give you peace.


Posted By: probably
Date Posted: February/17/2018 at 16:45
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

To my eye, Leica Noctivid is the best binocular on the market today.

ILya
As far as Leicas go, I see that the sample list has both Ultravid HD's and the HD+ in the bigger objective models - is there much gained by the HD plus, or is the difference negligible?  Reading different articles online indicates that the step was minor.  

I checked out some of the HD+ models in a store yesterday (yes, in addition to my new EL's, I might buy one more premium bino for my kid who is becoming very serious about hunting) and was impressed by the image, so before I jump on another swaro ......


Posted By: NDhunter
Date Posted: February/17/2018 at 18:17
Originally posted by probably probably wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

To my eye, Leica Noctivid is the best binocular on the market today.

ILya
As far as Leicas go, I see that the sample list has both Ultravid HD's and the HD+ in the bigger objective models - is there much gained by the HD plus, or is the difference negligible?  Reading different articles online indicates that the step was minor.  

I checked out some of the HD+ models in a store yesterday (yes, in addition to my new EL's, I might buy one more premium bino for my kid who is becoming very serious about hunting) and was impressed by the image, so before I jump on another swaro ......

I have had the EL models both 8x32 and 8.5x42, the former and the Swarovision.

I also have a Leica 8x42 UV HD.  The EL's are better in my eyes, in several ways

including brightness, handling, open bridge and the SV has the flat field view to

the edges. 



Posted By: probably
Date Posted: February/20/2018 at 13:53
Those EL's finally arrived.  Excellent glass.  I made the right choice. 


Posted By: NDhunter
Date Posted: February/20/2018 at 17:01

What size did you get ?  The Swarovision is hard to beat, good to hear you

are pleased.

Jerry






Posted By: probably
Date Posted: February/20/2018 at 19:00
10x42's.  I would have preferred the 50's, but the deal was too good to pass up.  These are new production, and I do not see any rolling ball effect, which I was a little concerned about. 

I had all my different binos out today, and these EL SV's were far and away better than everything else. 

I'd still consider the Leica 50mm's for my kid, if anybody can tell me the difference between the HD and the HD+ in an 8x50 (if the upgrade is worth 300 bucks, or not)


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: February/22/2018 at 11:42
You made a great choice, of course. EL SV is a superb bino. As far as sharpness out to the edge of the field is concerned, it's as good or better than anything else on the planet.

Most optics companies intentionally design their binos to have some degree of pincushion distortion so that you don't get the aforementioned "rolling ball" effect when panning. Pincushion distortion makes the "flow" of objects in and out of the field of view appear more "normal" to the human brain when panning. This inevitably involves the image being softer along the field edges. With a "flat field" design like the SV, you do get a very expansive, impressive sharp view out to or close to the field edge when looking at stationary objects, but the "globe" or "rolling ball" effect when panning through binos with field flattening optical design makes some people dizzy/causes eye fatigue or headache when doing lots of panning. To some people, this isn't an issue. A lot depends on how you use your binos as well. If you typically do a lot of panning, searching for game animals, you might have an issue, but maybe not. Some people don't notice the globe effect at all, and even among those who do notice it, the issue is sometimes overstated. If you're among those who don't notice it, you tend to do less panning, or if you do notice it but it doesn't bother you, you won't find a better view than the SV offers. All optics involve a series of design tradeoffs. 

Congratulations on owning a premier binocular!


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 03:18
Originally posted by WJC WJC wrote:

@font-face { font-family: "Cambria Math"; }@font-face { font-family: "Calibri"; }p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; }.MsoChpDefault { }div.WordSection1 { }

I’m a stick in the mud when it comes to binoculars because I want folks to be able to choose for themselves which path they will choose—fact or fiction.

Over the past 50 years, there have been hundreds of “improvements” in optical/binocular technology to cause observers to go weak in the knees. However, if EACH “improvement” offered only a ¼ percent increase in image quality 100-millimeter objectives could be housed in 30mm cells, would provide photographically flat, aberration-free images, would weigh as much as 4 postage stamps, and would allow the observer to see events days BEFORE they happen.

In addition, even some experience observers claim to be able to see things that can’t be seen by humans. For example:

From page 34 of BINOCULARS: Fallacy & Fact

“Frequently, when an observer suggests one manufacturer’s AR coatings are noticeably superior to those of another brand of similar quality, the difference he or she is seeing probably relates more to baffling, prism shields, edge blackening, size and position of the field stop, knife-edge on that stop, prism type, slotted prisms (in Porro prism instruments), configuration of the eyepiece, and other considerations than coatings alone.”

‘Just thought you should know.

Bill

 

I want THAT binocular...



-------------
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 07:54
The “view the future” bino would certainly be badass, but I’d be really concerned having a flux capacitor that close to your face might cause a brain tumor.

-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Sparky
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 13:48
I'd be more concerned about having 1.21 gigawatts that close to me.


Posted By: probably
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 14:12
reminds me of my old drill sergeant who told a kid "those glasses are so thick you can see the future"


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: February/23/2018 at 15:30
Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

I'd be more concerned about having 1.21 gigawatts that close to me.


Haha! Yeah, that’d no doubt “leave a mark!”

-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Bitterroot Bulls
Date Posted: February/27/2018 at 19:59
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

The “view the future” bino would certainly be badass, but I’d be really concerned having a flux capacitor that close to your face might cause a brain tumor.

Don't worry Ted, the garbage-fueled Mr. Fusion is a totally safe, non-carcinogenic power source.



-------------
-Matt


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: February/28/2018 at 04:00

The flux capacitor produces no external harmful radiation...

However, the 1.21 gigawatts, supplied to the appropriate high energy beam weapon, will DEFINITELY leave a mark...




-------------
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: Scrumbag
Date Posted: February/28/2018 at 07:53
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

The flux capacitor produces no external harmful radiation...

However, the 1.21 gigawatts, supplied to the appropriate high energy beam weapon, will DEFINITELY leave a mark...



Sting a bit too


-------------
Was sure I had a point when I started this post...



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