Print Page | Close Window

Red dot sight dot size comparison

Printed From: OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc.
Category: Scopes
Forum Name: Tactical Scopes
Forum Description: Police and military tools of the trade
URL: http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=44156
Printed Date: December/17/2017 at 21:26


Topic: Red dot sight dot size comparison
Posted By: Mikhail
Subject: Red dot sight dot size comparison
Date Posted: May/24/2017 at 19:40
Im going to buy a Vortex sight for my Ar very soon but im not sure if i want the Strikefire 2 or the Sparc ii. The Strikefire 2 has a 4 moa dot size and the Sparc ii has a 2 moa dot size and thats where im stuck at. So tell me what you folks think. On an AR platform rifle what size moa do yall like your red dot sight to be?

-------------
I use my CB and my AR mostly for fun. Still waiting on society to goto hell to use em for survival!!



Replies:
Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: May/24/2017 at 19:52
I like my red dots to be 1MOA, whether on ARs, pistols, shotguns, whatever. As long as I can readily see the dot, I don't want it to subtend any more of the target than necessary. I can pick up a 1MOA dot just as fast as a 7MOA dot, and still shoot with greater precision on slower, more deliberate shots when circumstances warrant. This is why I like the Trijicon RMR LED version; it's available with 1MOA dot.

Between those two, I'd choose the 2MOA, all else being equal on model comparison.

But, that's me.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: squee116
Date Posted: May/24/2017 at 20:01
On an AR, I imagine smaller is generally better.  Unlike a pistol or shotgun, your engagement distances can be pretty vast, and your targets can seem mighty small.  I imagine the extra bit of precision would be worthwhile.  It's one reason I love the Eotech reticle so much, nevermind the egregious weight and battery life, which kill the sight for me.


Posted By: Mikhail
Date Posted: May/24/2017 at 22:38
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

I like my red dots to be 1MOA, whether on ARs, pistols, shotguns, whatever. As long as I can readily see the dot, I don't want it to subtend any more of the target than necessary. I can pick up a 1MOA dot just as fast as a 7MOA dot, and still shoot with greater precision on slower, more deliberate shots when circumstances warrant. This is why I like the Trijicon RMR LED version; it's available with 1MOA dot.

Between those two, I'd choose the 2MOA, all else being equal on model comparison.

But, that's me.

Your last sentence got me to thinking more. I went back and did a side by side comparison of the 2 sights and while between the two there was everything i wanted in a red dot sight they neither one had the features i wanted by themselves.
At the moment i am looking at many many others. Thanks for triggering my mind to think again


-------------
I use my CB and my AR mostly for fun. Still waiting on society to goto hell to use em for survival!!


Posted By: sucker76
Date Posted: May/25/2017 at 10:25
The large 4MOA dot is why I sold my Strikefire 2 and bought a 1-6 scope with illuminated reticle.  The dot in the middle is 0.5MIL or 1.8MOA.  If you are only considering the 2 choices given, I'd choose the Spark.


-------------
Stamp collecting since 2015


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: May/25/2017 at 10:28
I much prefer 2 moa dots vs the 4.  I prefer the smaller aiming point for precision.

Take a look at Holosun red dot sights.  They have quite a few models now with different dots and reticles.  I have had one for a while now and I really like it, for $200 its is fantastic.  I have a Sparc2 and IMO the holosun is better in every way.  They also have a 5 year battery life similar to Aimpoints. 


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Mikhail
Date Posted: May/25/2017 at 11:47
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

I much prefer 2 moa dots vs the 4.  I prefer the smaller aiming point for precision.

Take a look at Holosun red dot sights.  They have quite a few models now with different dots and reticles.  I have had one for a while now and I really like it, for $200 its is fantastic.  I have a Sparc2 and IMO the holosun is better in every way.  They also have a 5 year battery life similar to Aimpoints. 

I have been looking at Holsun and Sig Sauer ALOT. Especially since i realized neither of the Vortex sights had all the features i wanted. Im leaning towards the Sig Sauer Romeo5. It has a 2MOA dot, brightness settings which are night vision applicable, motion activated power on, 40,000 hour battery life and it comes with extra mounts for different applications like co-witness an AK or an AR. Holsun has pretty much the same features also but OpticPlanet is selling the Sig for only $149.00. Hopefully the sale will last til payday on the 1st, LOL!


-------------
I use my CB and my AR mostly for fun. Still waiting on society to goto hell to use em for survival!!


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: May/25/2017 at 13:05
Sigs are Holosun, so same optic except for cosmetics.  $150 is a good price.




-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: May/25/2017 at 14:15
In the same size, etc of Sig and Holosun, also consider Hi-Lux MM2.  On the Vortex side, the sight to look at is Sparc AR.

I have a lot of hands on time with all of these and like them a fair bit.  The choice sorta comes down to what you like. They are all related designs. 

If it were my money, I would probably be looking at the MM2:  http://swfa.com/leatherwood-1x20-mm-2-digital-red-dot-sight-1.html - https://swfa.com/leatherwood-1x20-mm-2-digital-red-dot-sight-1.html  since the way the riser mount is set up, I have the least obstructed view.

On dot size: for distances where I use a red dot, both 2MOA and $MOA works fine.  If you have astigmatism, the dot might look a little sharper when it is larger, so make sure you get some hands on time with the sights.

If you decide to spend a little more money, I am testing Shield SIS right now and it has a lot to recommend itself.  It might be the most rugged red dot I have seen yet.

ILya


-------------
http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://www.opticsthoughts.com - opticsthoughts.smugmug.com
The greatest obstacle to discovery is the illusion of knowledge


Posted By: Mikhail
Date Posted: May/26/2017 at 17:29
Koshkin i did not know Holsun and Sig were the same company. I did notice the similarities in the two but thats all i did.
I checked out the Hi-Lux and the Shield SIS also and they look great. Still i think im going to get the Sig Romeo5 since it has every option that i want in a red dot except multiple reticles. I do like to have a choice in reticles and really like the ones with the outer circle and an inner dot but its not a deal breaker for me. I may change my mind if i find one with all the options of the Romeo 5, multiple reticles and a decent price. Either way im going to order mine next week.


-------------
I use my CB and my AR mostly for fun. Still waiting on society to goto hell to use em for survival!!


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: May/26/2017 at 22:05
I like the Aimpoint 2 MOA sights  The 9000L will mount in 30mm mounts

ss ar15 mount'



  • https://swfa.com/catalog/product/view/id/103880/"> Aimpoint 9000L 30mm Red Dot Sight

    https://swfa.com/catalog/product/view/id/103880/ - Aimpoint 9000L 30mm Red Dot Sight

    Matte, 2 MOA Dot Stock# AIM11419
  • https://swfa.com/swfa-s-s-a-l-t-30mm-scope-mount.html"> SWFA S.S.A.L.T. 30mm Scope Mount

    https://swfa.com/swfa-s-s-a-l-t-30mm-scope-mount.html - SWFA S.S.A.L.T. 30mm Scope Mount

    Matte, High Stock# SS30HSSALT

    $59.95



-------------

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: May/26/2017 at 22:10
Aimpoint does not need to have the red dot centered in the field of view.  If the dot is on the target it is correct. Its a patented system that works very well.


-------------

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: May/26/2017 at 23:48
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Aimpoint does not need to have the red dot centered in the field of view.  If the dot is on the target it is correct. Its a patented system that works very well.


All reflex red dot sights work that same way.

-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: May/27/2017 at 00:29
Originally posted by Mikhail Mikhail wrote:

Koshkin i did not know Holsun and Sig were the same company. I did notice the similarities in the two but thats all i did.
I checked out the Hi-Lux and the Shield SIS also and they look great. Still i think im going to get the Sig Romeo5 since it has every option that i want in a red dot except multiple reticles. I do like to have a choice in reticles and really like the ones with the outer circle and an inner dot but its not a deal breaker for me. I may change my mind if i find one with all the options of the Romeo 5, multiple reticles and a decent price. Either way im going to order mine next week.


They are not the same company.

Many companies use the same OEM.

ILya

-------------
http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://www.opticsthoughts.com - opticsthoughts.smugmug.com
The greatest obstacle to discovery is the illusion of knowledge


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: May/27/2017 at 17:06
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Aimpoint does not need to have the red dot centered in the field of view.  If the dot is on the target it is correct. Its a patented system that works very well.


All reflex red dot sights work that same way.
 
I Have a couple that do NOT. They may now but they did not do that 10 years ago.  You can lay one on something solid move around behind it and watch the dot shift from one location to another as your head moves. Centered they are consistent not centered they are off.


-------------

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: May/27/2017 at 18:11
At what distance?

-------------
http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://www.opticsthoughts.com - opticsthoughts.smugmug.com
The greatest obstacle to discovery is the illusion of knowledge


Posted By: Mikhail
Date Posted: May/28/2017 at 17:33
Shopping for a red dot sight is worse than hunting your wife a Valentine gift. You see hundreds of em with some of the features you want but none with all the features. Well thats not quite true since ive ran across several with every feature i want except build quality. It appears alot of the cheap sights are packed with features but i dont trust their ability to hold up over time.
Heres what i want in a red dot sight.
Tube design
red/green color choice
dot circle and dot reticle
1-2 MOA dot size
Night vision compatible
co-witness capable
lifetime warranty
a price below $300
I dont think thats too much to ask. I did find a very good deal on Holsuns PARALOW HS503CU for $189.99. Its usually advertised at around $280. Heres that link if anyones interested.
https://www.classicfirearms.com/holosun-paralow-circle-red-dot-black-housing-holo-hs503cu


-------------
I use my CB and my AR mostly for fun. Still waiting on society to goto hell to use em for survival!!


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: May/28/2017 at 22:57
I have no first hand experience with the solar holosuns. But i have read when shooting from a shaded or darker area into bright areas it is an issue. They are to dim. They adjust brightness automatically based on the light the optic is sensing.

I also read that can be turned off and set to manual. Might be something you want to look into more though.

-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Mikhail
Date Posted: May/29/2017 at 04:27
I read probably the same article which you did on the Holosuns. I kept looking and finally found another which said the auto brightness can be set to manual if desired. I dont know which one ill buy to be honest. Looked in to a ton of different sights lately. Heck SunOptics has a pretty decent setup to but then so do so many others. Thanks for the input though

-------------
I use my CB and my AR mostly for fun. Still waiting on society to goto hell to use em for survival!!


Posted By: billyburl2
Date Posted: May/29/2017 at 11:15
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Aimpoint does not need to have the red dot centered in the field of view.  If the dot is on the target it is correct. Its a patented system that works very well.


All reflex red dot sights work that same way.

 
I Have a couple that do NOT. They may now but they did not do that 10 years ago.  You can lay one on something solid move around behind it and watch the dot shift from one location to another as your head moves. Centered they are consistent not centered they are off.

My StrikefireII is only parallax free after 50 yards. The newer Sparc is totally parallax free,not sure about the other sights being discussed in this thread.

-------------
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?


Posted By: Mikhail
Date Posted: May/29/2017 at 18:00
Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Aimpoint does not need to have the red dot centered in the field of view.  If the dot is on the target it is correct. Its a patented system that works very well.


All reflex red dot sights work that same way.

 
I Have a couple that do NOT. They may now but they did not do that 10 years ago.  You can lay one on something solid move around behind it and watch the dot shift from one location to another as your head moves. Centered they are consistent not centered they are off.

My StrikefireII is only parallax free after 50 yards. The newer Sparc is totally parallax free,not sure about the other sights being discussed in this thread.

Over the last week or two ive read up alot on red dots and quite alot of that concerned parallax. I may be wrong but heres the way ive came to understand it. None of them are actually parallax free. They just have such a low rating they are considered parallax free and are ranked accordingly. This article in WIKI explains it as good as anything else ive read.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Reflex_sight


-------------
I use my CB and my AR mostly for fun. Still waiting on society to goto hell to use em for survival!!


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: May/29/2017 at 18:11
I'll probably concede the 2 MOA dot is "better" for more precise bullet placement, I'm keeping my 4 MOA Aimpoint T1 for a spell longer. I always thought it was more of a 3 MOA dot any way. Seemed smaller too me than the former Comp M2's I ran. 

Turning the intensity down a lick helps reduce target obstruction, IMHO.  Wink


-------------
If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: May/29/2017 at 18:28
I agree about the parallax. I have owned aimpoint, trijicon, vortex, holosun. I can see parallax error in them all. Some more than others.

-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Mikhail
Date Posted: May/29/2017 at 23:15
cheaptrick if i had an Aimpoint id keep it to, LOL.
Ive been thinking about going the other way also. Nikon has an AR kit with a 3x9x40 Matte BDC 600 scope, P series AR mount and (oddly enough) a spot-on wind meter for $249.95. Even if i decide to later get a red dot i like the scope for my Weatherby Vanguard 223. Then again i have several scopes laying around unused now though they are pretty old. Guess im just like everyone else and like new toys.


-------------
I use my CB and my AR mostly for fun. Still waiting on society to goto hell to use em for survival!!


Posted By: Mikhail
Date Posted: June/01/2017 at 21:15
Well after alot of thought and hee hawing around i ordered the Athlon Midas BTR RD13. It doesnt have the red/green choice nor multiple reticles but it did have a style of circle dot reticle which i like alot. The price wasnt to bad either.


http://s1153.photobucket.com/user/mikhail2400/media/Athlon%20BRD13%20reticle.png.html">

I know i spoke about the Nikon 3x9x50 kit. Well i figure next month ill get myself a new scope but im gone check out alot of different ones before i buy. 



-------------
I use my CB and my AR mostly for fun. Still waiting on society to goto hell to use em for survival!!


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: June/02/2017 at 10:33
I am thinking a SIS shield is in my future.

I have a 9mm SBR that the T1 isn't ideal for.


-------------
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: June/02/2017 at 12:32
I am thoroughly impressed with both the SIS and RMS from Shield.

The SIS is sorta different from Aimpoint Micro and MRO.  MRO is trying to have the most unobstructed view.  With the SIS, the window is smaller, so there is a frame around it.  However, I talked to a British guy with ties to the SA and he says at very close (almost reach out and touch) distances, the viewing window itself can become an aiming aperture: if you see the guy through the window, pull the trigger.  They even turn the reticle off and run it that way sometimes.

For now, I put the SIS on my 10mm handgun to see how it holds up to being bounced arounn on a moving slide.   So far, nothing has shifted or loosened.

If it continues like this, for carbine use, my red dot recommendations will probably boil down to Hi-Lux MM2 in the $200 range and Shield SIS in the $500 range.

ILya


-------------
http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://www.opticsthoughts.com - opticsthoughts.smugmug.com
The greatest obstacle to discovery is the illusion of knowledge


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: June/02/2017 at 14:46
All good to know.

And yea, for a 9mm SBR, it will indeed be close range work.


-------------
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."


Posted By: Mikhail
Date Posted: June/12/2017 at 20:43
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

I am thinking a SIS shield is in my future.

I have a 9mm SBR that the T1 isn't ideal for.

Very very nice sight. Cant believe i missed them but then they were a bit out of my price range. Its small size would be great on a handgun and i loved the different reticle choices. For fast targeting close range shooting i can see how the 8moa dot would be nice to have.

As for the Athlon RD13 i bought i really like it. The sight looks and feels like its extremely well made and the lifetime warranty is nice to have to. It came very well packaged and once mounted it gives a perfect mid-level co-witness for my popup sights. It has a very generous sight picture with plenty of viewing area. The cross/circle/dot reticle allows me to shoot long range without blocking out the target and for close up the circle part is great for quick acquisition. I have to admit im very happy with this sight. Hopefully it will hold its zero and continue to function so i wont have to try their warranty out. While i was choosing a sight i emailed Athlons customer service and they responded to me quickly with the answers to the questions i asked about their sights.
I ordered Butler Creek flipup lens covers for it. So far only one has arrived and its the cover without the push-button option. I chose it for the front (size 23 which fit perfectly) and im still waiting on the rear cover. It will be the one that has the red push button on it. (size 20)
If i have any problems with this sight ill update this thread. So far i would definitely recommend this sight to others.


-------------
I use my CB and my AR mostly for fun. Still waiting on society to goto hell to use em for survival!!



Print Page | Close Window