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Glass quality for 99% full light shooting?

Printed From: OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc.
Category: Scopes
Forum Name: Rifle Scopes
Forum Description: Centerfire long gun scopes
URL: http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=43909
Printed Date: December/10/2017 at 18:10


Topic: Glass quality for 99% full light shooting?
Posted By: SavageHunter11
Subject: Glass quality for 99% full light shooting?
Date Posted: February/07/2017 at 18:37
Looking to buy a scope for some long range shooting 1000+ yards. I had written off the Bushnell Elite Tactical HDMR and the Burris Xtr II because of concerns over glass quality. I was pretty set on the Steiner X5Ti 5-25x56 because it appears they have fixed/will fix tracking issues they were known to have but I am looking for a Razor Gen ii in 4.5-27x56 for sub $2k. My question is, if 99% of my shooting will be done in full sun, is this difference in glass (between the Steiner/vortex and the bushnell/burris) worth the extra $700+ish? Just looking for the best FFP scope for sub $2k money.




Replies:
Posted By: SavageHunter11
Date Posted: February/07/2017 at 18:42
I suppose the SWFA 5-20 is in the mix too but as marginal as it would be I think I would prefer x25+ magnification on the top end but if someone thinks the SWFA's glass is far enough above the other options to make the magnification difference negligible I would like to hear.


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: February/07/2017 at 19:41
The SS is on backorder right now I think.  I like mine. There are lots of good choices they just dont usually fall in that under 2K range.
https://swfa.com/optics/browse/riflescopes/tangent-theta-5-25x56-professional-marksman-34mm-rife-scope.html"> Tangent Theta 5-25x56 Professional Marksman 34mm Rife Scope

https://swfa.com/optics/browse/riflescopes/tangent-theta-5-25x56-professional-marksman-34mm-rife-scope.html - Tangent Theta 5-25x56 Professional Marksman 34mm Rife Scope

Matte, Illum Gen II XR, 28 mrad, Double Turn Elevation, 1/p Stock# TAN8001000001

$4,527.00



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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: SavageHunter11
Date Posted: February/07/2017 at 20:03
Jeez, I said sub $2k scope lol. You had me thinking for a second I could get a Theta for less than 2k (if only). Do you know if IOR has something in that 5-25 magnification for around the same price. I get the luxury of hunting with a side by side from time to time and a 8-34 might be a bit much for pigs or yotes


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: February/07/2017 at 20:25
I know you could get good hits with this at 1000 it would be like open sights at 100 yds.  I've  run this at 600 yds very successfully I rarely get to 1000 where I am.   Even the SS 3-9 would be worth considering but the 5-20 would be probably what you should go with  and about April may go on sale.
https://swfa.com/optics/browse/swfa-ss-hd-10x42-tactical-30mm-riflescope.html"> SWFA SS HD 10x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope

https://swfa.com/optics/browse/swfa-ss-hd-10x42-tactical-30mm-riflescope.html - SWFA SS HD 10x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope

Matte, Mil-Quad, Rear Focus, HD Model Stock# SSHD10X42MQ

$799.95



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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: SavageHunter11
Date Posted: February/07/2017 at 20:34
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

I know you could get good hits with this at 1000 it would be like open sights at 100 yds.  I've  run this at 600 yds very successfully I rarely get to 1000 where I am.
<div class="product_img">
            

                                 https://swfa.com/optics/browse/swfa-ss-hd-10x42-tactical-30mm-riflescope.html">
                    SWFA SS HD 10x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
              
            

       
              

       
        <h3>
             https://swfa.com/optics/browse/swfa-ss-hd-10x42-tactical-30mm-riflescope.html -
            SWFA SS HD 10x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope            
        </h3>
        <span ="desc2"="">Matte, Mil-Quad, Rear Focus, HD Model</span>
        <span ="stock"="">Stock# SSHD10X42MQ</span>
       

       
       
              
              
              

       
        <div ="product_price"="">
                    <h4>$799.95</h4>
              


The SWFA HD is what sits atop my Lapua currently... Looking to replace it. Want to start working out past 1000. You say you like your Leupold? How does it look at higher magnification?


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: February/07/2017 at 20:38
Not as good as my 5-20x50 Super Sniper but still very reliable tough scope. I saw this one with the Horus reticle in it which is something I would like to have.


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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: February/07/2017 at 20:39
I have been really  impressed with the US Optics scopes I have seen - very high on my wish list.


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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/07/2017 at 21:42
The bushnell and Burris do have good glass. Its as good as anything else coming out of japan. I own the long range hunter bushnell and the glass is quite good. I own a burris 2-10x and feel it is verg good as well.

Obviously there is better but in their comparative price ranges they compete well.

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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: jsthntn247
Date Posted: February/07/2017 at 22:51
You might be able to get a Minox 5-25 tactical for a little over 2k with their Mr5 reticle. It's the old Premier basically. I've got a Athlon Cronus 4.5-27x50 and it's almost impossible to beat for 1500 ish. Razor Gen 2 would be solid as well.


Posted By: SavageHunter11
Date Posted: February/08/2017 at 11:12
Originally posted by jsthntn247 jsthntn247 wrote:

You might be able to get a Minox 5-25 tactical for a little over 2k with their Mr5 reticle. It's the old Premier basically. I've got a Athlon Cronus 4.5-27x50 and it's almost impossible to beat for 1500 ish. Razor Gen 2 would be solid as well.

If you had to do it again, would you pick up a Steiner 5-25 T5Xi for 100 more or stick with the Cronus?


Posted By: Sparky
Date Posted: February/08/2017 at 12:28
Originally posted by SavageHunter11 SavageHunter11 wrote:

I suppose the SWFA 5-20 is in the mix too but as marginal as it would be I think I would prefer x25+ magnification on the top end but if someone thinks the SWFA's glass is far enough above the other options to make the magnification difference negligible I would like to hear.

I don't think the SS 5-20 is marginal for what you wish to do with it. I know a number of people who shoot 1000yds with a SS HD10x. Consider this, 20x at 1000yds is similar to looking at a target at 50yds with no magnification. Plus high magnification scopes bring in their own set of issues.

Something else to consider is that the elevation and windage adjustments or tracking is very important when shooting long or even medium distances.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/08/2017 at 12:30
I think he meant the extra 5x mag may be a marginal improvement. 


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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: 3_tens
Date Posted: February/08/2017 at 13:10
When shooting out to 1000 yards with the SS 5-20X HD, Many times you need drop the magnification down to 12-15 to help reduce the mirage. High magnification can be a curse at long range. Dropping the magnification is easy because on the SS 5-20 HD, being a FFP scope, the reticle maintains its size relationship with the target.


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Folks ain't got a sense of humor no more. They don't laugh they just get sore.

Need to follow the rules. Just hard to determine which set of rules to follow
Now the rules have changed again.


Posted By: SavageHunter11
Date Posted: February/08/2017 at 13:23
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

I think he meant the extra 5x mag may be a marginal improvement. 


Yeah. I meant to say that a 5-25x56 would be preferred over a 5-20x56 scope because of the extra x5 power in the scope. But if glass quality is a big enough step up to negate that extra zoom in the SWFA over say the Steiner I would rather have the better glass.


Posted By: SEMO Shooter
Date Posted: February/08/2017 at 16:11
I have a Nightforce F1 ATACR 5-25.  I rarely use more than 18x.  The last match I shot in November had a stage that went from 600 yards to 1000 and I think I only had the power set at 12x.

If I were target shooting from a bench or prone at a 1000, I might use a higher power depending on mirage, but probably not.


Posted By: Sparky
Date Posted: February/08/2017 at 16:33
Originally posted by SavageHunter11 SavageHunter11 wrote:

Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

I think he meant the extra 5x mag may be a marginal improvement. 


Yeah. I meant to say that a 5-25x56 would be preferred over a 5-20x56 scope because of the extra x5 power in the scope. But if glass quality is a big enough step up to negate that extra zoom in the SWFA over say the Steiner I would rather have the better glass.

Okay now I understand what you are saying.


Posted By: Uncle Lawrence
Date Posted: March/11/2017 at 12:12
Nothing wrong with the Bushnell Elite Tactical line, Japanese glass and the Bushnell Elite Tactical scopes are proven. I know two people dumping USO and NF for them.


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: March/11/2017 at 14:19
Bushnell and Burris are just not impressive to me.  They are OK, but so is oven baked bacon…  OK...

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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: Newbweatherby
Date Posted: June/07/2017 at 01:59
I have a Minox zx5i 5x25x56mm it runs 650-750 depending where you go,they tied the razorgenll in the 2016 for imGe qUlity anx was second highest score for low light.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: June/07/2017 at 07:41
It sounds like you are jumping from a 3-9 to wanting a 5-25 or so. Be advised that most scopes, even $3k+, aren't real fun to get behind at >20. Head position and distance to ocular are super-critical, and they don't do well at all on warm days.

I run many scopes in a 3-15 range and only a few above 20X; and I find that the 20X scopes rarely go above 15-18X.


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The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."


Posted By: helo18
Date Posted: June/07/2017 at 08:04
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

It sounds like you are jumping from a 3-9 to wanting a 5-25 or so. Be advised that most scopes, even $3k+, aren't real fun to get behind at >20. Head position and distance to ocular are super-critical, and they don't do well at all on warm days.

I run many scopes in a 3-15 range and only a few above 20X; and I find that the 20X scopes rarely go above 15-18X.

Couldn't have said it any better.  I will take 15x all day.  At 2500 yards with my 338 I do like the 20x of the SS, but I don't shoot that far than often.


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To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

GEORGE WASHINGTON


Posted By: Hammer47
Date Posted: June/08/2017 at 19:10
If you are not totally hung up on a variable i would suggest the Ior Valdada in straight 16 power.  I believe they can be had for right at a grand and you are getting great German glass. Excellent


Posted By: JLud
Date Posted: June/23/2017 at 18:18
For 99% bright light shooting I would not spend 1000s more. I've got a Nikon pro staff that under daylight looks tricking awesome...sure it would suck once you start comparing or gets darker.

I like my Burris XTR II...and my fixed 6 SS works good. Best groups from the fixed 6....

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That thing on the left....my old ride, some days I miss her.


Posted By: Boomholzer
Date Posted: July/01/2017 at 18:37
For sub $2k and the price; I'd look at the 5-20x Gen1 Razor HD.   Solid optic with well implemented LR reticle options. 20x is plenty of magnification for 1k yards.  The 'eye-box" could be better and the mass/size is what it is.  Mine are the older 5mrad knobs but the 10mrad is well received.  With a ZS I prefer the course feel of the 5.  There is allot more at play then just light transmission when trying to shop-down while visualizing optimal shooting conditions.

I really do not "get" the G3 HDMR reticle.   The equally heavy 1/2mil hash on the tree is confusing (don't count by 1mil!) and what rifle is 1mil wind at 6mil elevation.  What's the point?


Posted By: jonoMT
Date Posted: July/10/2017 at 17:14
I agree on 15X being plenty for 1000. It's more of a psychological desire to see the target as if it was right there. The same shooter might not think twice about shooting iron sights at 100. (10X @ 1000 being the equivalent). Seeing the target is only part of the equation. Wind, elevation and air density matter just as much and often more. So does a quality barrel and ammo. Long distance shooting is just harder because everything has to be better, but your main obstacle is drastically increasing ballistic drops and drift.




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