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Short barrel 308 ammo recommendations

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Category: Firearms, Bows, and Ammunition
Forum Name: Reloading & Ballistics
Forum Description: Anything to do with ammunition
URL: http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=43050
Printed Date: November/18/2018 at 17:05


Topic: Short barrel 308 ammo recommendations
Posted By: Lockjaw
Subject: Short barrel 308 ammo recommendations
Date Posted: June/03/2016 at 05:34
I am doing a single purpose deer rifle. It's a Ruger Hawkeye, 16.5 in barrel. It's going to have a Zeiss Conquest Duralyt 2-8x42 on it. It's going to be a close quarters gun, mainly in thick cover.

Accuracy aside, what would be a good option for ammo selection? I was thinking about the 165 gr Hornady American Whitetail load. The gun shoots the 150 grain well, just thinking maybe a 165 might be a little better in thicker cover. 

I know the shorter barrel will knock some of the velocity down. I want to be able to anchor my deer. I've shot 2 deer with it using the 150 HAW ammo, both dropped in their tracks. They were just doe's tho. 

I have a box of Hornady 165 gr BTSP I got last year when one of my local gun stores was running a sale. I thought it was the 150 SST, which I had been buying as well. I think its basically the same as the AM ammo, just it has a boat tail instead of a flat base. 

I do not like Core Lokts, so please don't suggest them. 

Any benefit to a 165 over a 150? 



Replies:
Posted By: DCAMM94
Date Posted: June/03/2016 at 05:49
In thick cover you're not going to need to worry too much about velocity.  Any of the bullets loaded in the ammo you suggest will have ample energy to expand at velocities from a 16.5" barrel within 200yds.  With that said, I think heavier is better for "anchoring" game, plus, the lower velocities produce less cavitation, and therefore less bloodshot meat.  When I was young, I used to think faster and flatter was better.  Now that I'm more experienced, if my hunting will be within max point blank range, I go with heavier bullets every time.  Hope this helps.

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Although personally I am quite content with existing explosives, I feel we must not stand in the path of improvement. -Winston Churchill


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: June/03/2016 at 08:56
Heavier is better.

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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: June/03/2016 at 10:13
The only advatage lighter will have is possibly lighter recoil.

Heavier will retain more energy, penetrate deaper, retain better velocity, less wind drift. All around better option.

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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: JGRaider
Date Posted: June/03/2016 at 10:58
Nosler partition.  The standard by which every hunting bullet is judged, and has been for over 60 years.  I'd go heavier as well. 


Posted By: Lockjaw
Date Posted: June/03/2016 at 12:26
Well gun is 5.75 pound and no recoil pad. I'm adding about a pound and half for scope and rings. I didn't think it was to bad with 150 grain. Less than my 270 with 130s. And it's heavier to boot.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: June/03/2016 at 12:33
I have a 300 wsm that is right a 7 lbs. i shoot 180 grain out of it. U definitly notice when u pull the trigger. :).

I just bought a mossberg .308 with 16" barrel. Its great fun. I am a fan of short barrels for sure.

I would even consider 180s for your ruger. Lots of benefits to heavy

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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: June/03/2016 at 13:26
I hand load, so it's tough to make the "factory ammo" call.  My brush gun is an 16" barrel AR10 throwing 180 Barnes TTSX at about 2600FPS, and I love the setup.

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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: June/03/2016 at 23:33
180gr copper bullet at 2600 out of a 16" barrel is pretty peppy. I am sure you know what you are doing, but it would make me worry about pressure.

ILya

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http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://fb.me/DarkLordOfOptics - Facebook
The greatest obstacle to discovery is the illusion of knowledge


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: June/03/2016 at 23:36
Originally posted by Lockjaw Lockjaw wrote:

Well gun is 5.75 pound and no recoil pad. I'm adding about a pound and half for scope and rings. I didn't think it was to bad with 150 grain. Less than my 270 with 130s. And it's heavier to boot.


I would start by getting a recoil pad. With ammo, i am with everyone else here: go with the heaviest quality bullet you can easily get.

ILya

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http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://fb.me/DarkLordOfOptics - Facebook
The greatest obstacle to discovery is the illusion of knowledge


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: June/04/2016 at 09:32
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

180gr copper bullet at 2600 out of a 16" barrel is pretty peppy. I am sure you know what you are doing, but it would make me worry about pressure.

ILya

I wouldn't, PERSONALLY, be particularly afraid of it, but have never seen the 180TTSX loaded above about 2650-2700fps out of a 16in barrel.  Please PM me some info on your load, RC…  If it is working well for you, I would love to try it.


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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: Steelbenz
Date Posted: June/04/2016 at 16:08
I use RL-17 with my heavies but out of a bolt gun not an AR platform.



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"Don't argue with a fool! From a distance you can't really tell who's who!"


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: June/06/2016 at 11:56
Dan, I can't tell you, it is super secret, I don't use powder, I use C4 as the propellant and it is mall ninja---typo sorry, 2500 on the 180s, or thereabouts. Will look up the specs but it is a compressed load of varget over a bullet seated to max mag length.

2600 would be sporty indeed!

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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: June/07/2016 at 04:01

I just took a load, for a slightly larger bullet (approximately 1500gr) rated at max range of 4500 meters to 7300 meters.  There were definitely some overpressure signs in the brass, but the gun held up well.   Some of the brass was very old and showed extreme pressure signs, some of the newer stuff did very well.  No one had ever done it before, at least not "recorded". 






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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: Lockjaw
Date Posted: June/07/2016 at 10:25
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Lockjaw Lockjaw wrote:

Well gun is 5.75 pound and no recoil pad. I'm adding about a pound and half for scope and rings. I didn't think it was to bad with 150 grain. Less than my 270 with 130s. And it's heavier to boot.


I would start by getting a recoil pad. With ammo, i am with everyone else here: go with the heaviest quality bullet you can easily get.

ILya
it is not bad really. I have same gun in stainless in 708 and its .25 pound heaver and easy on the shoulder. Of course I have dropped 30 pounds since last year so I might need a pad.


Posted By: Stevel610
Date Posted: June/07/2016 at 20:16
I have a Ruger RSI with 18.5" barrel in 30-06. It too is a brush gun. I'm making a load which mimics a 30-30. 150 gr. Sierra flat point using H4350. It shoots 1.5" at 100 yards. I haven't chrono'd it yet, but by load weight and velocity reduction for the short barrel, it should be just at 2390 fps.

I have a nice low power load using the same bullet with H4895 that shoots the same grouping. Only chrono'd at 2124 fps which makes it a 125 yard load.

Using a fixed 6x for load development, but will be switching to an NECG rear Ruger sight once the load is developed.



Posted By: Stevel610
Date Posted: June/07/2016 at 20:21
Using 150's because they group better than 165's or 180's out of this gun.


Posted By: Lockjaw
Date Posted: June/08/2016 at 07:00
I don't want a low power load simply because I could be in a situation where I could be presented woth a longer shot. I killed a deer 2 years ago with this rifle off a PowerLine and it was easily 150+ yards.


Posted By: Ernie Bishop
Date Posted: June/09/2016 at 23:13
Hornady TAP (168 grain)


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Ernie



"If you think you are perfect, just try walking on water."


Posted By: nralifer
Date Posted: August/16/2016 at 22:13
I have a 308 Savage action with a 20" Douglas barrel. It is my favorite hunting rifle. As far as what factory ammo to recommend I would try a variety of brands and settle on the one or two that shoots the best out of your rifle. Bullet placement is all important. Heavier is better, and 180 grain bullets do very well.

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It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. TR


Posted By: trigger29
Date Posted: August/17/2016 at 10:43
Originally posted by Lockjaw Lockjaw wrote:

I don't want a low power load simply because I could be in a situation where I could be presented woth a longer shot. I killed a deer 2 years ago with this rifle off a PowerLine and it was easily 150+ yards.
don't fool yourself into thinking the underrated .308 is limited to short range, or that it doesn't have the power to take game at longer ranges. I've taken game weighing 300-600+ lbs at ranges of 250-500 yards. Bullet placement is key. Put the bullet where it belongs and it should do its job.

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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


Posted By: trigger29
Date Posted: August/17/2016 at 10:45
Originally posted by Lockjaw Lockjaw wrote:

I don't want a low power load simply because I could be in a situation where I could be presented woth a longer shot. I killed a deer 2 years ago with this rifle off a PowerLine and it was easily 150+ yards.
don't fool yourself into thinking the underrated .308 is limited to short range, or that it doesn't have the power to take game at longer ranges. I've taken game weighing 300-600+ lbs at ranges of 250-500 yards. Bullet placement is key. Shoot a quality bullet. Put the bullet where it belongs and it should do its job.

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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: August/17/2016 at 11:05
Originally posted by trigger29 trigger29 wrote:

Originally posted by Lockjaw Lockjaw wrote:

I don't want a low power load simply because I could be in a situation where I could be presented woth a longer shot. I killed a deer 2 years ago with this rifle off a PowerLine and it was easily 150+ yards.
don't fool yourself into thinking the underrated .308 is limited to short range, or that it doesn't have the power to take game at longer ranges. I've taken game weighing 300-600+ lbs at ranges of 250-500 yards. Bullet placement is key. Put the bullet where it belongs and it should do its job.

Jason, with 308, like with most cartridges these days what limits the range at which a hunter can take game is usually the skill and confidence of the hunter.  You are competent shot and you practice, so for you a 500 yards shot is not terribly difficult.  However, most importantly, you also know how to recognize the conditions when a 500 yards shot is absolutely out of the question.

For most people out there (me included), a 500 yard shot on game is absolutely out of the question simply due to skill and confidence considerations.

With that in mind, for almost all big game in North America (with well known exceptions from the "large and mean" category), 308Win is an excellent cartridge to use within any reasonable range.

The question of bullets still remains.  While I personally tend to lean toward heavy for caliber bullets, I fully admit that with modern superbly designed monolithic bullets (that someone I know promised to make a few of, not that I am pointing fingers...), a lighter and flatter shooting might just be the way to go.

ILya


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http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://fb.me/DarkLordOfOptics - Facebook
The greatest obstacle to discovery is the illusion of knowledge


Posted By: Steelbenz
Date Posted: August/17/2016 at 14:32
I had some of the 170grainers of said bullets! I need to get a few more!

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"Don't argue with a fool! From a distance you can't really tell who's who!"


Posted By: trigger29
Date Posted: August/18/2016 at 22:52
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by trigger29 trigger29 wrote:

Originally posted by Lockjaw Lockjaw wrote:

I don't want a low power load simply because I could be in a situation where I could be presented woth a longer shot. I killed a deer 2 years ago with this rifle off a PowerLine and it was easily 150+ yards.
don't fool yourself into thinking the underrated .308 is limited to short range, or that it doesn't have the power to take game at longer ranges. I've taken game weighing 300-600+ lbs at ranges of 250-500 yards. Bullet placement is key. Put the bullet where it belongs and it should do its job.
(that someone I know promised to make a few of, not that I am pointing fingers...), a lighter and flatter shooting might just be the way to go.

ILya
I took a 600lb blue wildebeest at 482 yds with that short .308 shooting only a 150gr bullet....... and fear not bud. Those bullets are coming...... soon.

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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


Posted By: nralifer
Date Posted: August/19/2016 at 04:53
I have a 19 second video of the shot Trigger29 is talking about. Would like to post it. Have it on Vimeo on my I-phone. Wildebeest went down like hit with a truck. Need some advise on how to post it.

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It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. TR


Posted By: nralifer
Date Posted: September/23/2016 at 06:36
I have become a real advocate of the 308 Win in any barrel length. The cartridge is very efficient and economical to reload. The factory ammo is OK, but you can safely squeeze a lot more out of it with the right reloading components. Using Trigger 29's 150 gr BD bullet and Leverevolution powder and a good custom 24" barrel they can be pushed to 3100 fps and have a trajectory almost identical to a 7mag. I know this is heresy in some circles, but it is true. Not trying to stir controversy or saying that the 308 is better than a 7 mag. Just letting 308 guys know that their gun is better than they think, and like 56 Chevy, can be souped up a bit from stock.

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It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. TR


Posted By: Steelbenz
Date Posted: September/23/2016 at 07:54
I'm waiting for the go light to go green with the 168s. Not that I think you guys are sitting on your hands or anything! LOL!

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"Don't argue with a fool! From a distance you can't really tell who's who!"


Posted By: trigger29
Date Posted: September/23/2016 at 15:14
Very soon. They'd be done, but we had a little tooling issue.

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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


Posted By: Lockjaw
Date Posted: November/22/2016 at 09:15
Well I would like to report I shot a doe sunday on opening weekend of gun season with it. Ruger Hawkeye with a 16.5 in barrell, and a Zeiss Duralyt 2x8x42 Scope. 

She came out in the cutover about 35 yards in front of me and was making tracks. I bleated 3 times to get her to stop, and when she did, I hammered her. 165 grain hornady american whitetail ammo. Dropped her in her tracks. DRT. 

That ammo just works. I shot 2 deer with the 150 grain version in 308 out of the same gun, and the results where the same. DRT. 

Love the scope too. It is bright and crystal clear. I may have to have the 700 Tac resighted with it. 


Posted By: Steelbenz
Date Posted: November/22/2016 at 10:26
I was thinking of putting those 168s into my 300 blackout but might run them in my sons PSS just to see what they do!

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"Don't argue with a fool! From a distance you can't really tell who's who!"


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: November/22/2016 at 16:14
Originally posted by Steelbenz Steelbenz wrote:

I was thinking of putting those 168s into my 300 blackout but might run them in my sons PSS just to see what they do!

With a splash of of Vargay and you're off. Stiring The Pot 


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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: Steelbenz
Date Posted: November/22/2016 at 17:20
Still have a few lbs of the stuff in my safe! I moved over to RL-17.

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"Don't argue with a fool! From a distance you can't really tell who's who!"


Posted By: RWBlue
Date Posted: November/22/2016 at 19:06
I found the Federal Premium JSP in 165gr to be the most accurate and works very well on deer.

But honestly, the any 150-165gr JSP will do.

As far as distance for the kill...If you can hit the target, you can make the kill.

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To be or not to be, that is the question. Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing, end them.


Posted By: Lockjaw
Date Posted: December/19/2016 at 14:55
Well I am a little unhappy with my ammo now. Shot a doe saturday at 100 yards. Same gun as above. Gun is dead on at 25, so it should be 2 to 2.5 inches high at 100 according to Nikon's spot on program. I aimed a little low, heart area, steady rest, squeezed, and deer jumped straight up and took off. I found a small amount of hair at the shot sight, and tracks off the green field, but no blood. 

I did manage to find some blood, but no deer. The rain wasn't helping my situation any. Based upon where my bullet "should have" gone, this would have been a double lung shot. No reason to suspect the gun is off, but I will test fire it this week to see. 

I really want something that goes in, and there is fragmentation and then the majority of the bullet exits.

This always seems to happen to me when I take a deliberate shot and try to adjust for my sight in, I end up not finding the deer, or not getting a good clean kill. If I just take an offhand snap shot, it seems to always end up with a deer DRT. 

 


Posted By: Steelbenz
Date Posted: December/19/2016 at 15:03
Always, Always, Always! check real world data to a ballistics calculator. Before you ever squeeze the trigger on game at any distance shoot that distance or more and confirm your dope for that rifle and that ammo in those conditions. I'm not really chastising you, but yes, I'm chastising you! LOL! We'd cut your shirt tails off for that!

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"Don't argue with a fool! From a distance you can't really tell who's who!"


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: December/19/2016 at 15:04

Have you ever confirmed that its on at 100 prior to taking this shot?



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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: December/19/2016 at 15:10
I would suggest sighting in farther out than 25 yards.  Problem with 25 yards and you might shoot a 5 shot group that is 1/2 inch in size and think hey, my gun is awesome.  But that small error of 1/2 inch by the time you get to 100 yards is much bigger.

You just don't see the possible errors at 25 yards.  Your gun may have a stock pushing on the barrel issue, a heat up issue, velocity issues, or any other number of issues and you would have no idea because you are only shooting at 25 yards. 

I test my guns out to as far as I plan on shooting game at.  If I decide I am comfortable shooting at a deer at 500 yards.  I get dope every 50 yards from 50 to 500 and test each distance with live ammo to make sure things are working right.  That way I know when I pull the trigger that if I do my part the bullet is going to go where my cross hairs were when the trigger broke. 


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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Lockjaw
Date Posted: December/19/2016 at 17:02
There aren't ranges here that go out past 100 yards, except some new one they put in up in Talladega. It goes out to 600 Yards I think. I guess I need to take a trip up there. I didn't feel like the FOP range here was even 100 yards when I went out there. That was before I got my range finder. I may call them and see if they are open and run up there. 

I shot 2 deer with this gun when it had the burris scope on it. Same ammo except 150 grain. One was at 70 yards and the other at 150 or more. Both DRT. I shot one at 30 or 35 already this year, same result, DRT. 

We have a crappy range at my hunting club. I can shoot out there between 11 and 1. Its on a powerline. So I would be shooting downhill. 

You guys are way more advanced than I am. I guess I need to get me a chrony and see what the ammo is doing at yardage too. Be my luck I would shoot the chrony. Big Grin


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: December/19/2016 at 17:08
Originally posted by Lockjaw Lockjaw wrote:

Be my luck I would shoot the chrony. Big Grin


Haha. I saw, well mostly heard that happen at the range one day.  I heard a boom and then mother bleepaty bleep bleep bleep.  Look over and some dude had shot his good.  A bit later, he came over and asked if he could shoot through mine.  I was like "uhh, no way dude"  lol




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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Lockjaw
Date Posted: December/19/2016 at 17:17
I just seem to have this sort of luck. I swear I can snap shoot something like you wouldn't believe, but ask me to sit there and take a slow deliberate shot, and it never seems to work out. 

It may just not like this ammo. Who knows?? Although I have never had a gun shoot hornady ammo poorly.

This is what I usually see happen with Remington Core Lokt ammo. I busted deer with it, and they run away and hide. 



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