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What should I get??? Printed From: OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc. Category: Firearms, Bows, and Ammunition Forum Name: Firearms Forum Description: All makes, models and uses URL: http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=36017 Printed Date: March/29/2024 at 10:04 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com Topic: What should I get??? Posted By: first_shot_kill> Subject: What should I get??? Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 15:07
Replies: Posted By: bootjack Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 16:07
Posted By: Sgt. D Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 16:33
Posted By: first_shot_kill> Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 16:36
Posted By: Peddler Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 16:41
Posted By: Sgt. D Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 16:52
Posted By: first_shot_kill> Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 17:01
Posted By: first_shot_kill> Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 17:07
Posted By: RifleDude Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 17:12
Posted By: first_shot_kill> Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 17:13
Posted By: first_shot_kill> Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 17:25
Posted By: Sparky Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 17:28
Posted By: Bitterroot Bulls Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 19:50
Posted By: Sparky Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 21:03
Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 21:39
Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 21:41
Posted By: Sgt. D Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 21:41
Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 21:58
Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 22:01
Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 22:11
Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 22:13
Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd Date Posted: March/04/2013 at 22:24
------------- "Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
7mm Rem Mag Military Applications Note: The HSM 168gr Match King load was choosen for my military application load because it uses the approved for combat Sierra Match King bullet and has really nice long range ballistics. http://www.thehungtingshack.com/ -
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100y 92m
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200y 183m
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300y 275m
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400y 366m
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500y 458m
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600y 549m
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700y 641m
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800y 732m
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900y 824m
| 1000y 915m
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+12.8
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+22.5
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+26.9
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+25.3
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+16.7
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0.00
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-26.2
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-63.7
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-114.3
| -180.7 |
I would have to aim a lot higher than a telephone pole to shoot 1000 yards with my .22. :) I am already aiming 27-30 feet high (depending on ammo) just to shoot 300 yards! Then calculating wind speed and bullet travel time makes me have to aim even further off target. Boy do I love mil dots. :)Good point on casings not being available. Just to make it clear, I am not wanting (yet - wink wink) a rifle built for 1000+ yard shots. I just want a sub moa rifle that if I get the chance, has the capability of making a 1000 yard shot. I do understand this will not happen overnight. Thats not what I am expecting. I expect this to take many years. I am just starting now. For fun I will "build" a range on paper; choose a distance, wind(s), altitude, placement on earth, temperature, weather, my elevation compared to that of target, target speed if moving, etc. etc. etc... and try to figure balistics for a 308. I AM BY NO MEANS A MASTER AT THIS!!!! I just do this for fun to try and learn how it's done. I am a firm believer in "practice makes perfect", and I have to start somewhere.My reason for choosing 308: popular and cheap enough to still use for "plinking", still is quite accurate, easy to get balistics for, stuff like that. If you know of a better round that fits those descriptions, let me know. Hope I don't come off as a dumb young kid wanting the impossible by way of impossible means. I truly do want to learn. This is a passion I have had for several years (just ask my family and friends) and am just now starting to really act on it. I have seriously either checked out from the library, borrowed, or bought every book I could find on the subject. I am NOT a "video game sniper" who thinks he knows how its done. Actually, I hate games like Call Of Duty because they are so unrealistic. Especially the sniping. You do not just line up a target in the scope, pull a trigger, and have a bullet travel in a straight line and hit the target instantly. Thats not how it works. ------------- Attack where they are unprepared, appear where you are unexpected. Death is nothing. But to live defeated and without glory, that is to die every day. |
My goal is not to look cool to anyone. It is a personal goal that I set a long time ago. Not to be cool, but to have done something that is hard to do. Just look at sports. Yes, there are those who just try to look cool, but then there are those who just want to be the best they can be at what they enjoy. I enjoy LR shooting, and want to be good at it. Thank you in advance to all those who help me arrive at my destination! :) ------------- Attack where they are unprepared, appear where you are unexpected. Death is nothing. But to live defeated and without glory, that is to die every day. |
Don't knock the 6.5 Creedmoor for hunting I bought one for my wife last year and it's a killer!!! Peddler ------------- When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others. It is the same when you are stupid. |
6.5 Creedmoor is an excellent LR choice! I have no issues with the 6.5mm's as a hunting round. I've killed quite a few hogs and a couple deer with a .260 and never found its performance lacking. Granted, deer isn't exactly a test for bullets & cartridges, but decent sized hogs definitely are! I would place a big hog in the same class as elk in terms of toughness. ------------- Ted Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
Your initial question was "What should I get" You locked in on thinking .308 is the way to go the problem is you want to go past 800 yds which means you need to push the bullet faster that what .308 will push it. You get more velocity out of a 30-06 than a .308 and you can still find ammo possible even brass for 30-06 possibly several of the other calibers mentioned -- GO LOOK. The 300 WSM would be my first choice with 300 Win Mag the second choice but that is because I shoot all of those 30 cal rifles at long range. Get past the idea that .308 is the ultimate go to bullet and accept the fact that more velocity is needed to do what you are asking. Recognize that the difference in cost between someone who reloads shooting a .308 VS shooting a 300 WSM is only pennies worth of powder once you have brass because you are using the same 190 to 200 gr bullet. Base which you select on what ammo brass and primers you can obtain because if you cant buy primers you might as well forget buying all of the rest of the reloading equipment unless you have a friend who will work a trade with you. You have to be realistic enough at this point to recognize that the supply of primers and live ammo are a problem that is likely not to change in the near future so if you can not buy either the live ammo or the primer brass powder and bullet to make the cartridge you only have an expensive paper weight not a rifle. Before you do anything else go buy a thousand or two if not more of either large rifle primers or large rifle magnum primers and a reloading book or go buy 200 rounds of ammo that will fit your caliber of choice or 200 rounds of brass. Now if you can find that today you are better off than 99% of the other guys out there looking for the same thing. Once you have determined exactly how screwed you are start looking for loaded 30-06 ammo which you might be able to still find and for some reason 280 Remmington brass seems to be abundent due to not too many guys shooting that caliber but it is a 7mm bullet on a 30-06 case and will do what you are looking to do. FIND AMMO OR FIND PRIMERS BRASS POWEDER & BULLETS --- THEN PICK CALIBER BASED ON WHAT YOU FIND. And you can forget .308 and .223 because everyone with high capacity mags is looking hard for that. http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_drift-5.1.cgi - http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_drift-5.1.cgi ------------- "Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
Although, I'd go 7WSM instead. I'd pick any 6.5 or 7mm over any .30 any day. You get waaaaayyy more on the business end in exchange for less on the butt end. But, if factory ammo availability is a deciding factor, it's hard to argue against the .300. ------------- Ted Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
For a off the shelf precision rifle the Remington milspec 5r is a great choice. They are typically around $1100 last I checked. A .308 will easily shoot to 1000 yards. Is it the best choice? No, but it will do it just fine. I shoot that far occasionally with my .308 and it has a 19" barrel on it, it will still be super sonic as well if you are using 175 grain bullets. At my elevation they will stay super sonic around 1100 yards. The 175s also make the transition to sub sonic without tumbling, where the 168s will not. I have shoot steel and paper with both to 1100 and most of the time the 168 when I hit were tumbling where the 175s always hit point first. In the 5r they also have it in 300 WM. Obviously a better choice, but at the cost of recoil and more expensive ammo. I think a short action caliber would be your best choice. Even 500 and 600 yards is very challenging to learn the wind. 90% of my shooting is 600 yards and less, so I opted for a shorter barreled .308. For my uses it is wonderful. It will do the 1100 and 1200 yard stuff I want to do occasionally just fine. But it does the 600 yard and under stuff very well. I would love a .260, but I am heavily invested in the .308 caliber with my reloading components and tools so I stick with it. And the .308 does everything I want just fine. ------------- Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack. "A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
Wow. Lots to think about. Thank you Urimaginaryfrnd so much for pointing out those reloading facts! Those facts have really put a new spin on the possibilities. I looked up reloading supplies, and 300 win mag is easy to get, 308 is impossible (you were right :), 7mm mag is there, but hard to find. Then as far as costs go, you were right again. Once I get set up, its basically the same price to shoot a 300 as a 308. My only concern is barrel life. Is that something to consider? ------------- Attack where they are unprepared, appear where you are unexpected. Death is nothing. But to live defeated and without glory, that is to die every day. |
Hey supertool73, what is your 308 group at 1200 yards? Should I just go with a 300 win mag? ------------- Attack where they are unprepared, appear where you are unexpected. Death is nothing. But to live defeated and without glory, that is to die every day. |
http://www.6mmbr.com/gailmcmbreakin.html - http://www.6mmbr.com/gailmcmbreakin.html - read this about barrel life, specifically mentions the 300 win mag ------------- "Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln |
What do you all think of this in 300? http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Centerfire-Rifles/Bolt-Action%7C/pc/104792580/c/105522480/sc/105523380/Savage174-Arms-Tactical-Rifles/706921.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-centerfire-rifles-bolt-action%2F_%2FN-1102332%2B4294751770%2FNe-4294751770%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_105523380%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat104792580%253Bcat105522480%26WTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNU&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104792580%3Bcat105522480%3Bcat105523380 - http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Centerfire-Rifles/Bolt-Action%7C/pc/104792580/c/105522480/sc/105523380/Savage174-Arms-Tactical-Rifles/706921.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-centerfire-rifles-bolt-action%2F_%2FN-1102332%2B4294751770%2FNe-4294751770%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_105523380%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat104792580%253Bcat105522480%26WTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNU&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104792580%3Bcat105522480%3Bcat105523380 Know any other good places to look at rifles? ------------- Attack where they are unprepared, appear where you are unexpected. Death is nothing. But to live defeated and without glory, that is to die every day. |
1000 rounds for a 300. Sounds about right.Thanks! ------------- Attack where they are unprepared, appear where you are unexpected. Death is nothing. But to live defeated and without glory, that is to die every day. |
I have never shot groups at 1200 yards. Just hitting the target period at that distance is an accomplishment. I have shot 1/2 MOA out to 700 yards with 5 shot groups. ------------- Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack. "A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
Thats impressive! Where did you learn to shoot? Are you looking for students? :) ------------- Attack where they are unprepared, appear where you are unexpected. Death is nothing. But to live defeated and without glory, that is to die every day. |
I have spent lots of money taking classes, and lots more practicing on my own. I don't consider myself that great of a shooter, just a hobby I enjoy. I have been taking classes at Front Sight in Nevada since 2004. I try to get to a few per year. ------------- Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack. "A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
I have heard lots of good things about Front Sight. ------------- Attack where they are unprepared, appear where you are unexpected. Death is nothing. But to live defeated and without glory, that is to die every day. |
If you are serious about this project you might find a used benchrest rifle that has had most of the good modifications (stock, bedding, trigger, etc.) and is built around a target action. BR guys are always looking to upgrade their equipment to compete. It can be a bunch cheaper than having one built, and light years ahead of factory rifles. Sometimes there are good quality rigs for sale at reasonable prices. Check the classifieds on the benchrest forums. |
As I reread my comments I was a little vague to say the least. I should have qualified it with what size game. The comments I heard were concerning Elk and hogs mainly. Also I would say that they liked it when their target dropped in it's tracks. Your experience may vary. Plus I remember reading the comments of a member here on the 260 as a hunting caliber by RC. http://www.opticstalk.com/260-vs-308-on-ar-platform_topic34630_post497077.html?KW=260#497077 |
The savage rifles are very good shooting rifles right out of the box. ------------- "Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
I don't have the experience that some of the guys here do with shooting long range... but what I do think is that its not very realistic to have a Hunting rifle and a 1000 yrd target rifle in one set up. I guess it depends on what you mean by hunting rifle... to me it means making a shot as close as 50 yards. Pretty hard to get the optics set up to shoot 50 and 1000 yds out of most rounds, especially a .308 ------------- take em! |
True it might be a challenge for some scopes but, as I usually do, I'm either packin my .357 or my bow as well. If I get a shot inside 50yds I prefer the bow. For those who don't care for the bow a good hard hitting handgun is always a good close range backup. Next yr I'll have to see if the low end 6X would prevent me from makin a 40-50yd shot. I don't tnink it would...... ------------- Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA! |
The rifle would be zeroed at around 300-500 yards. Then come rifle season, I would zero it at 100. I just want the rifle to be good enough quality so that when I get the chance, I can shoot 1000. I also want it to be a more popular caliber so I can go into most stores and pick up some rounds, and so I dont go broke every time I shoot. I am sure that the 6.5 kills deer just fine, but (at least where I live) its not real popular, and for the price it is, I would rather just buy 7mm or 300 ammo. ------------- Attack where they are unprepared, appear where you are unexpected. Death is nothing. But to live defeated and without glory, that is to die every day. |
HeySgt. D, funny you should mention that. I just got a bow. Needs restrung though. Its an older one, so its closer to a heavy beast than light and graceful :) But for the price, a gift from my uncle, it would have been stupid to not take it. ------------- Attack where they are unprepared, appear where you are unexpected. Death is nothing. But to live defeated and without glory, that is to die every day. |
Be careful!! If you fall in love with bowhunting like some of us your pockets are gonna get even lighter. But and on a serious note also be careful not to start with substandard equipment. A deal is only good if it gets you where you want to be. If you already have experience with a bow then I'm preaching to the choir. Otherwise get with a bow tech or someone you beleive has above average knowledge of bows and bow set up and have your stuff checked over good. Make sure it fits your draw length and all parts are in good condition. Then if you don't have experience shooting you need someone to help you with shooting form. The sayin "pratice makes perfect" is NOT true. If you pratice bad habits then you perfect bad habits. Only perfect pratice makes perfect. good luck on both ventures. P.S. You might want to start lookin that second job!!! ------------- Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA! |
My uncle has been a bowhunter for about 30 years and has always bough high quality gear. We did measure my draw length to make sure the bow would work. I have some (not sure how to measure) experience shooting. My current groups at 25 yards are within 2-3". And yes. If I plan on playing with these toys, that second job is going to be a must have unless God provides a better one than what I currently have. Thanks for the input! ------------- Attack where they are unprepared, appear where you are unexpected. Death is nothing. But to live defeated and without glory, that is to die every day. |
what I'm saying is............ It sounds to me like you want a hunting rifle.... right now you could use a hunting rifle..... and down the road a piece....you'd like to get into shooting long range. Do yourself a HUGE favor and buy what you are going to use NOW.... not what you might use in the future! You are pretty much talking about two totally different applications. Get yourself a decent hunting rig and shoot the poop out of it. A 308 is nice... but so is the 30-06 and 270. You can pick up a nice Savage or Rem for around $500.00 if you look and you can get a nice scope for the same or a less. then start saving for a long range set up! You'd be surprised how fast the time will go by while you are saving and before you know it, you will have the $$ to get a nice long range outfit. Believe me... you will be much happier if you do! ------------- take em! |
Tip makes a good point. But if you are set on getting one and using it for both, a good setup for both hunting and precision shooting would be a Remington 5r in .308 with a 20" barrel and a SWFA SS 3-9x. It would do all you want and do both roles pretty well. ------------- Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack. "A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
I know for sure that I will end up with 2. Just want the first one to do a little of both, heavier on the precision side. ------------- Attack where they are unprepared, appear where you are unexpected. Death is nothing. But to live defeated and without glory, that is to die every day. |
The stores I went into today had NO .308 ammo or brass and limited bullets and powder. They did have quite a bit of 30-06 which is a fine choice to learn on as it has less recoil than the magnums and loaded ammo cost about the same as .308 but isnt it nice to actually be able to find ammo. The 270 ammo was also readily available as was 300 WM and 7mm Mag. At the rate things are disappearing you would be well advised to buy a 30-06 or a 300 WM and whatever ammo you can find minimum of 200 rounds. The R5 Mil Spec comes in 300 WM but they were hard to find before this madness but I think you may be in luck if you move quickly. Here is your rifle: http://www.gunsamerica.com/914183123/Guns/Rifles/Remington-Rifles-Modern/Model-700/Tactical/Remington_700_5R_Milspec_300_Win_Ma.htm - http://www.gunsamerica.com/914183123/Guns/Rifles/Remington-Rifles-Modern/Model-700/Tactical/Remington_700_5R_Milspec_300_Win_Ma.htm ------------- "Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
+100 on the 300WM. Its what I've carried the past two yrs and I have other rifles to choose from. Its over kill for deer in my area but dead is dead and with my 300WM if I can see it I can reach it. I loaded Berger 168 VLD but just ordered some Berger 185's just to see what I can get out of her. And one thing you can count on. The 300WM will do all that you have been sayin you want to do. And do it well!! ------------- Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA! |
My 300 win mag is on a strick diet of heavy pills. Mainly Berger hybrid 230's ------------- "Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln |
Well it looks like somebody bought it - Did you get your rifle? ------------- "Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
No. Gotta keep saving. Right now I am broke as a lamp dropped from a rooftop. lol ------------- Attack where they are unprepared, appear where you are unexpected. Death is nothing. But to live defeated and without glory, that is to die every day. |
keep shooting friend, as clint eastwood once said " IF I COULD SHOOT A MANS HAT OFF HIS HEAD AT 50 YRDS ID GIVE UP ACTING IN THE MORNING" ------------- long runs the wolf... |
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