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Spotting scope help.

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Category: Other Optics
Forum Name: Spotting Scopes
Forum Description: Big Eye Optics
URL: http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=33321
Printed Date: March/28/2024 at 04:18
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Topic: Spotting scope help.
Posted By: sniperdog
Subject: Spotting scope help.
Date Posted: June/28/2012 at 14:02
I need some advice on what type of spotting scope to buy.  Specifically, I have a range that I just completed that reaches to 500 yards and need a spotting scope that will let me see the bullet impact points at that range.  I would like to be able to see .223 holes in addition to .308, .50, etc.  I don't need something that is "rugged"  as I won't be lugging the scope around.
Thanks!



Replies:
Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: June/28/2012 at 14:28
Budget?

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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: June/28/2012 at 14:52
To see .223 holes at 500yds is going to take some pretty good glass. Heck, it will take that to see .30 cal. holes under ideal conditions.
I would suggest something in a Vortex 20-60x80 to start with.


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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: sniperdog
Date Posted: June/28/2012 at 15:35
Can't really say what the budget is since I don't know what it will take to see what I need to see. I guess I would like to stay under 1k.


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: June/28/2012 at 15:44
Here is my top recommendation
http://swfa.com/Vortex-20-60x85-Razor-HD-Spotting-Scope-P13265.aspx - http://swfa.com/Vortex-20-60x85-Razor-HD-Spotting-Scope-P13265.aspx
 
I don't have one, but I do have a Pentax PF 80 with the 20-60 eyepiece. One of our members here also had the same scope and sold it to buy the Razor, and he did not regret buying the Razor and was VERY happy with it.
If you can afford saving a little extra, I don't think you would go wrong. Buy once, cry once.


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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: June/28/2012 at 15:50
This is what I have
http://swfa.com/Pentax-20-60x80-ED-Spotting-Scope-P4400.aspx - http://swfa.com/Pentax-20-60x80-ED-Spotting-Scope-P4400.aspx
and seeing .30 cal. holes at 300yds is tough. Might work at 500 with shoot-n-see targets.


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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: sniperdog
Date Posted: June/29/2012 at 13:15
Thanks for the info.  Vortex is a bit pricey (1.6k) but yeah you are probably right about buying the best.


Posted By: JGRaider
Date Posted: June/29/2012 at 16:29
You get what you pay for in spotters.  Buy the best you can possibly afford even if you have to stretch the budget a bit.  BeltFed gives good advice here.  


Posted By: stickbow46
Date Posted: June/29/2012 at 17:01
If your not in a rush wait for the new SWFA SS spotting scope due out?????????????
 
If your in a rush go to the SWFA Sample list,they have a couple of goodies @ very reasonable prices!


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Pearls of Wisdom are Heard not Spoken


Posted By: stickbow46
Date Posted: June/29/2012 at 17:02
Forgot to mention Welcome to the OT!

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Pearls of Wisdom are Heard not Spoken


Posted By: sniperdog
Date Posted: June/29/2012 at 20:42
Thanks!
I'll check it out.


Posted By: dsr
Date Posted: July/01/2012 at 11:30

I use a Leica 77 APO Televid and seeing 50 holes at 1000 is difficult under the best conditions and at 600 yds under poor lighting close holes in the black can be tough to resolve.



Posted By: sniperdog
Date Posted: July/01/2012 at 18:25
Really weird that you posted this. I borrowed a friends Leica televid today 20x60, 77.  I could see the 223 holes barely at 440 yards (didn't try at 500 - got chased off by thunderstorm) .40 holes were very obvious. Used plain white paper hanging on a RR tie wall.  Lighting was somewhat dark even though it was at 3 pm and I was shooting due north, because of the thunder clouds.
What does the APO mean?  Are you happy with Leica?


Posted By: dsr
Date Posted: July/02/2012 at 12:40

APO = apochromatic: reduces color fringing. When looking through a non APO optic and examining the edges of an object you might see red,blue,green outlines making the object appear somewhat fuzzy and can be very pronounced under certain lighting conditions.

 

 

Are you happy with Leica?

Emphatically: YES



Posted By: sniperdog
Date Posted: July/02/2012 at 20:20
Took the scope  (leica televid) out today at noon in high temp and humidity.  There were so many heat waves that I couldn't see anything at 440 yards, not even the .40 holes.  Totally different than yesterday. Doubt I could have seen a .50 hole either. 


Posted By: dsr
Date Posted: July/02/2012 at 21:11
Yep bad atmospheric conditions you have a hard time seeing but when conditions are good what you can see is simply amazing.


Posted By: Peddler
Date Posted: July/04/2012 at 12:20
Kowa 883 with 20 - 60 zoom

Peddler Big SmileBig SmileBig Smile


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When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: July/05/2012 at 10:23
Originally posted by Peddler Peddler wrote:

Kowa 883 with 20 - 60 zoom

Peddler Big SmileBig SmileBig Smile
Show offCool

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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: Klamath
Date Posted: July/05/2012 at 12:54
As has been posted, sometimes magnification has its limits.  The Zen Ray ED 2 spotter is every bit as good as the Razor and is $1k.  The Theron MAG 82 is less than that and is so good you will have to see it for yourself.  Both will not be chased into hiding by even a Kowa.  Anyway I'd recommend one of those.  The Theron comes with a 25-75x zoom and a very nice, even excellent, fixed 30x WA eye piece. 
 
I posted a review of all three here a while back.  I have the ZEN ED 2 and have yet to feel that I have ever needed more. 
 
http://www.opticstalk.com/theron-zen-ray-and-kowa-spotters_topic26955.html - http://www.opticstalk.com/theron-zen-ray-and-kowa-spotters_topic26955.html


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Steve
"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted". William Bruce Cameron



Posted By: Peddler
Date Posted: July/06/2012 at 09:16
Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

Originally posted by Peddler Peddler wrote:

Kowa 883 with 20 - 60 zoom

Peddler Big SmileBig SmileBig Smile
Show offCool


BeltFed, you are correct I should have been a little more humble. I do have a definite advantage as I'm the Kowa rep in NY and part of PA and I have a sample of every item that they make. I just joined the site recently because I'm an avid hunter and I don't have any intentions of rambling about the products that I sell. I also have no intentions to sell anything either. Thanks for the comeupence I deserved it.
By the way I'm going to a sales meeting next week and I'll be getting an adapter for the iPhone that will fit our bins & spotting scopes. At this point don't know any more than that.

Peddler Big Smile


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When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: July/06/2012 at 09:43
Originally posted by Peddler Peddler wrote:

Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

Originally posted by Peddler Peddler wrote:

Kowa 883 with 20 - 60 zoom

Peddler Big SmileBig SmileBig Smile
Show offCool


BeltFed, you are correct I should have been a little more humble. I do have a definite advantage as I'm the Kowa rep in NY and part of PA and I have a sample of every item that they make. I just joined the site recently because I'm an avid hunter and I don't have any intentions of rambling about the products that I sell. I also have no intentions to sell anything either. Thanks for the comeupence I deserved it.
By the way I'm going to a sales meeting next week and I'll be getting an adapter for the iPhone that will fit our bins & spotting scopes. At this point don't know any more than that.

Peddler Big Smile
I wouldn't think about asking you to break the rules ( well maybe I did for a secondDevil ), but I would love to get my eyeball behind a Kowa 883 with a 20-80 eyepiece. I just don't think I'm going to win the Power Ball.

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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: justin AK 47
Date Posted: August/03/2012 at 11:36
need some help with an old scope i got , its called pronimar ,they say its from the 60s
can anyone help ???
 
send me a private message with your email and i can send you pictures
 
any help will be great thank 


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: August/03/2012 at 12:26
What kind of help do you need justin?

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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: Peddler
Date Posted: August/04/2012 at 05:41
[QUOTE=justin AK 47] need some help with an old scope i got , its called pronimar ,they say its from the 60s
can anyone help ???
 
send me a private message with your email and i can send you pictures
 
any help will be great than

If it says Prominar it's a Kowa spotting scope. Kowa scopes were introduced in 1952 and they were the official scopes for shooting matches at the 1964 Olympic Games.A number of U.S.Armed Forces Sniper Teams use Kowa spotting Scopes.

Peddler Big GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig Grin


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When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.


Posted By: JGRaider
Date Posted: August/04/2012 at 10:07
Peddler, remember you promised to keep me posted on that Iphone adaptor, right ? Big Smile


Posted By: Peddler
Date Posted: August/04/2012 at 11:17
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

Peddler, remember you promised to keep me posted on that Iphone adaptor, right ? Big Smile

They are available now. I just took a pic in my backyard. PM me your e-mail and I'll send the pic. I basically have no computer skills and I don't know how to post pics here.

Peddler YippeeYippeeYippeeYippeeYippee


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When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.


Posted By: stickbow46
Date Posted: August/04/2012 at 13:20
Now that you are part of our family Peddler,how 'bout a SWFA group buy on the Kowa TSN 880  spotter [:}

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Pearls of Wisdom are Heard not Spoken


Posted By: stickbow46
Date Posted: August/04/2012 at 13:24
OK realistically TSN 66mm Wink

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Pearls of Wisdom are Heard not Spoken


Posted By: Peddler
Date Posted: August/05/2012 at 05:43
Originally posted by stickbow46 stickbow46 wrote:

OK realistically TSN 66mm Wink


stickbow, are you trying to get me in trouble ? Where is Benton.Pa.? My territory is all of upstate NY and a small part of northern and western Pa.

Peddler Big GrinBig GrinBig Grin


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When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.


Posted By: castlebravo
Date Posted: August/05/2012 at 15:10
Originally posted by stickbow46 stickbow46 wrote:





Now that you are part of our family Peddler,how 'bout a SWFA group buy on the Kowa TSN 880  spotter [:}



Where is this group buy you speak of?


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: August/06/2012 at 10:09
Hate to rain on a good deal, but I think a group buy with Peddler would get him in trouble with forum rules.

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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: August/06/2012 at 10:32
Originally posted by sniperdog sniperdog wrote:

I need some advice on what type of spotting scope to buy.  Specifically, I have a range that I just completed that reaches to 500 yards and need a spotting scope that will let me see the bullet impact points at that range.  I would like to be able to see .223 holes in addition to .308, .50, etc.  I don't need something that is "rugged"  as I won't be lugging the scope around.
Thanks!

Shoot-N-C targets will help. Allot.
With mirage, forget seeing .223 or .308 holes at 600 yards with anything.

If I had a private range, I'd sink the money into a CCD camera and monitor, because atmospheric conditions play a HUGE part in what you can see.


Good luck, and welcome to Optics Talk.


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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: Peddler
Date Posted: August/06/2012 at 11:10
Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

Hate to rain on a good deal, but I think a group buy with Peddler would get him in trouble with forum rules.


Thanks BeltFed, you are correct.

Peddler YippeeYippeeYippee


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When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.


Posted By: Skylar McMahon
Date Posted: August/06/2012 at 14:06
Originally posted by Peddler Peddler wrote:

Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

Peddler, remember you promised to keep me posted on that Iphone adaptor, right ? Big Smile

They are available now. I just took a pic in my backyard. PM me your e-mail and I'll send the pic. I basically have no computer skills and I don't know how to post pics here.

Peddler YippeeYippeeYippeeYippeeYippee
 
If you like, email me you pic and I'll post it for you.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: August/06/2012 at 14:12
Will these work with "other" spotter eye pieces?

They should, unless something was done to prevent interface with any but one.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: JGRaider
Date Posted: August/06/2012 at 14:31
I actually stumbled upon a video of it on youtube.  




Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: August/06/2012 at 16:40
Peddler, when will these be available.

I see SWFA has a meopta adapter listed, but I'm sure you'd rather I buy one that says "Kowa."


Thanks.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: Peddler
Date Posted: August/07/2012 at 04:55
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Peddler, when will these be available.

I see SWFA has a meopta adapter listed, but I'm sure you'd rather I buy one that says "Kowa."


Thanks.


They are available now.

Peddler YippeeYippeeYippee


-------------
When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: August/07/2012 at 11:40
If money is no object 88mm Kowa is the best spotter I have seen yet (aside from some larger non-sealed models).

For the money, Zen ED2 is probably your best bet.

Ilya

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http://www.darklordofoptics.com - www.darklordofoptics.com
https://rumble.com/c/DLO - Rumble Video Channel


Posted By: Peddler
Date Posted: August/07/2012 at 13:00
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

If money is no object 88mm Kowa is the best spotter I have seen yet (aside from some larger non-sealed models).

For the money, Zen ED2 is probably your best bet.

Ilya


koshkin, you are a man with good taste.

Peddler YippeeYippeeYippee


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When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.


Posted By: sniperdog
Date Posted: August/13/2012 at 09:21
Thanks!
When talking about a  camera/monitor, are you referring to having a camera mounted near the target monitoring the bullet holes and sending an image back to a laptop or whatever where I am shooting from instead of using a spotting scope? 
If so, that is an interesting alternative.  Problem is that there are tresspassers.  I found a metal plate, painted white,  two days ago that is about 32"x32" and an eight inch thick that someone had placed on my range and was shooting .22's  at from a distance of about 30 yards.  Strange part is that they had to lug this steel plate in through the adjacent woods to put it on my range, and it is somewhat heavy.  Why not just sit it up against a tree in the woods and shoot it there?  I am going to put a .50 hole in it and write a little note on it about tresspassing.  Their .22 didn't even dent this metal so god knows where their ricochetts were going.
 
As f/u to the OP, I am still shopping for spotting scopes.  I have been looking at used 77 televids but may start looking at some of the other scopes you guys mentioned.


Posted By: sniperdog
Date Posted: September/05/2012 at 08:49
OK, I decided to go top end but my brain is full of questions:
Is there more than one type of Kowa 883?  (is there an HD vs Non HD?)  Is the 883 better than the top of the line Swaro or Leica for my use (see below)?
How much difference in image quality is there between the Swaro HD vs Non HD - this scope will be used at a shooting range exclusively, so I can adjust whether the target is on a white paper background, red paper, etc.
Is the Razor as good as the three makes above or is it slightly "worse" but a great price for the quality?


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: September/05/2012 at 13:15
Originally posted by sniperdog sniperdog wrote:

OK, I decided to go top end but my brain is full of questions:
Is there more than one type of Kowa 883?  (is there an HD vs Non HD?)  Is the 883 better than the top of the line Swaro or Leica for my use (see below)?
How much difference in image quality is there between the Swaro HD vs Non HD - this scope will be used at a shooting range exclusively, so I can adjust whether the target is on a white paper background, red paper, etc.
Is the Razor as good as the three makes above or is it slightly "worse" but a great price for the quality?
 Checking SWFA's site, I don't think there is a difference in the Kowa 880 series other than maybe eyepieces. I think they are all top of the line.
As far as which is better, Kowa, Leica, Swaro, or Zeiss I couldn't say. They are all alpha glass and I don't think you could go wrong with any of them. There might be a slight difference to your eyes between them, but I think any of them will accomplish what you want. If they don't, then your probably out of luck finding a spotting scope to do what you want, since they are top of the line.
As for the Razor, from what I have heard, it is as close as you can get to alpha glass without paying for it. I hope to look through one in the next couple of weeks, but I can oly compare it to a Pentax PF80.


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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: JGRaider
Date Posted: September/05/2012 at 13:33
If you're going top shelf, the Kowa 883 (angled) or 884 (straight) are the best on the planet.  Dont waste your time with anything else.  They're also cheaper than the other alphas, which is icing on the cake.  As beltfed says, the Razor is pretty close and 1/2 the money.  


Posted By: sniperdog
Date Posted: January/09/2013 at 15:29
As an update to my original post, I ended up buying the Kowa 883.  I like it a lot.  I can easily see 7.62 holes at 500 yards assuming no miraging, using simple white paper.  (I had it out yesterday - there was snow on the ground, hazy sun.).
Ill report back on .223 hole when I take that out, which should be soon, weather dependent.


Posted By: Peddler
Date Posted: January/09/2013 at 15:51
Originally posted by sniperdog sniperdog wrote:

As an update to my original post, I ended up buying the Kowa 883.  I like it a lot.  I can easily see 7.62 holes at 500 yards assuming no miraging, using simple white paper.  (I had it out yesterday - there was snow on the ground, hazy sun.).
Ill report back on .223 hole when I take that out, which should be soon, weather dependent.


sniperdog, you have good taste, I think you'll love

Peddler CoolCoolCool


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When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.


Posted By: sniperdog
Date Posted: January/11/2013 at 11:53
I think you are right.
The 223 holes were surprisingly easy to see at 500 yards yesterday, and it was cloudy out.



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