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Help me Decide Which Scope

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Category: Scopes
Forum Name: Rifle Scopes
Forum Description: Centerfire long gun scopes
URL: http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=33289
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Topic: Help me Decide Which Scope
Posted By: flipmo
Subject: Help me Decide Which Scope
Date Posted: June/24/2012 at 07:42
Ok guys I know there are many post like mine on this forum but I would appriciate any info I can get. I have been looking for a new scope for my Ruger 7mm mag and have narrowed it down to two finalist.
Zeiss Conquest 3-12x56
Leupold VX 3L 4.5-14x56
I like both so much that I am having a hard time making a decision.
Thanks Guys



Replies:
Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: June/24/2012 at 08:06
If you limit it to only those two definately the Zeiss. Leupold's 4.5x is really closer to 5x than it is to 4.5.   I am willing to give up something on the low to get a lot more on the high end like a 4-16 but  in this case I think you are better off with the 3x on the low end.

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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: Sir Hoppalot
Date Posted: June/24/2012 at 08:13
Indeed, having that low end (low) magnification can be really useful for close encounters, especially for an animal on the move.


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"I don't know what World War III will be fought with, but I know World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein


Posted By: KIMBER8400AT
Date Posted: June/24/2012 at 19:06
If you look at scopes used by military snipers, the objective is less than 50.  With this being said, I don't think 56 objective is going to be useful.  Therefore it is the most advantageous to have a smaller objective, but larger range of magnification (as stated by Urimaginerfrind and SirHoppalot).Cool

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“Don't carry a gun. It's nice to have them close by, but don't carry them. You might get arrested.” J.G.


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: June/24/2012 at 19:28
Originally posted by KIMBER8400AT KIMBER8400AT wrote:

If you look at scopes used by military snipers, the objective is less than 50.  With this being said, I don't think 56 objective is going to be useful.  Therefore it is the most advantageous to have a smaller objective, but larger range of magnification (as stated by Urimaginerfrind and SirHoppalot).Cool

That is a grandiose statement with little basis.  


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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: June/24/2012 at 19:33
Originally posted by KIMBER8400AT KIMBER8400AT wrote:

If you look at scopes used by military snipers, the objective is less than 50.  

Not so sure that's an entirely true statement. 

The S&B PM2 has a 50mm objective and used by US Marines and others, as does the NF NXS, which has been used by Canadian sniper teams/others. I freely concede that some scopes used by snipers have had, or have less than 50mm objectives, but bigger objectives is ceratinly in vogue these days.
 
Welcome to Optics Talk. 


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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: KIMBER8400AT
Date Posted: June/24/2012 at 19:59
I can bet with anybody that any statements you guys make is not entirely true.  Any statement!
In the sniper training series (TV documentary), the scopes were less than 50.  I rather have a 40 objective and a larger range than 56 and 3-12 magnification.



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“Don't carry a gun. It's nice to have them close by, but don't carry them. You might get arrested.” J.G.


Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: June/24/2012 at 20:09


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“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: June/24/2012 at 20:13
Originally posted by KIMBER8400AT KIMBER8400AT wrote:

I can bet with anybody that any statements you guys make is not entirely true.  Any statement!

I'm not sure what all that means, Sir. 

I wasn't calling you a liar, just misinformed, or had a typo.I agreed with you that YES, there are scopes with less than 50mm objectives being implemented today by armed forces, and NO all "sniper scopes" being used these days are NOT less than 50mm. 

It was you Sir that made the blanket statement, not KB or I. Check fire...relax.... 


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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: June/24/2012 at 20:20
And furthermore......Behold the 56mm, gold standard of "sniper" scopes....
THE COUNTER SNIPER!!!!! 

2.5/10-56 Weapon Mountable Optical Gunsights


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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: June/24/2012 at 20:21
Originally posted by KIMBER8400AT KIMBER8400AT wrote:

I can bet with anybody that any statements you guys make is not entirely true.  Any statement!
In the sniper training series (TV documentary), the scopes were less than 50.  I rather have a 40 objective and a larger range than 56 and 3-12 magnification.

 
SCOPES50 Cal  -WE DONT NEED NO STINKING SCOPES WE HAVE BELT FED MACHINEGUNS AND CLOSE AIR SUPPORT   SCOPES ARE FOR THOSE WHO INTEND TO ACTUALLY HIT THEIR TARGET WITH THE FIRST SHOT >>>>


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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: June/24/2012 at 20:22
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

And furthermore......Behold the 56mm, gold standard of "sniper" scopes....
THE COUNTER SNIPER!!!!! 

2.5/10-56 Weapon Mountable Optical Gunsights
 
Roll on Floor Laughing I WOULDNT PUT THAT ON A BB GUN.


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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: KIMBER8400AT
Date Posted: June/24/2012 at 20:28
Look man,
my point is that you do not need to spend money on a 56 objective, b/c it's not useful.  If I were the guy buying the scope with 56 objective, I wouldn't because it is better to spend the money on a larger magnification than larger objective.

As far as being relaxed, I am plenty relaxed trick!
that is your name right?


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“Don't carry a gun. It's nice to have them close by, but don't carry them. You might get arrested.” J.G.


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: June/24/2012 at 20:39
Advantage of a 56mm is the exit eye pupil size and increased light transmission in low light.  For example you can have a 56mm objective scope set on 12X and still have a 4.6mm exit eye pupil  or set it at 10x and have a 5.6mm exit eye pupil  (7 being maximum useable brightness) In low light this can be very valuable especially with Zeiss glass.
Disadvantage of a 56mm is the cheekweld needs compensation however there are adjustable cheek pads and several styles of accessory cheek pads which can be used to fine tune cheekweld.


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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: June/24/2012 at 20:50
Not that there is anything wrong with having more power its just a different choice:
http://swfa.com/Swarovski-35-18x44-Z5-Riflescope-P40825.aspx">Swarovski 3.5-18x44 Z5 Riflescope http://swfa.com/images/swarovski_plex_popup.jpg">Plex http://swfa.com/Swarovski-35-18x44-Z5-Riflescope-P40825.aspx -
  • Ballistic Turret
  • Side Focus
  • $1,549.00 


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    "Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
    Bobby Paul Doherty
    Texas Ranger


    Posted By: billyburl2
    Date Posted: June/24/2012 at 21:09
    Originally posted by KIMBER8400AT KIMBER8400AT wrote:

    I can bet with anybody that any statements you guys make is not entirely true.  Any statement!
    In the sniper training series (TV documentary), the scopes were less than 50.  I rather have a 40 objective and a larger range than 56 and 3-12 magnification.

     The two scopes being used by the Marine Corps Scout Snipers currently are:
    http://swfa.com/Premier-Heritage-3-15x50-Tactical-34mm-Riflescope-P12353.aspx - http://swfa.com/Premier-Heritage-3-15x50-Tactical-34mm-Riflescope-P12353.aspx
    http://swfa.com/Schmidt-Bender-3-12x50-Police-Marksman-II-34mm-Riflescope-P6851.aspx - http://swfa.com/Schmidt-Bender-3-12x50-Police-Marksman-II-34mm-Riflescope-P6851.aspx
     Except the Schmidt has a GenII reticle and MTC knobs that were installed by Premier before the Mrines got them. Also in service in lesser numbers are the 5-25x56 from Premier. Special Forces and the Army have a lot of different optics, several of which have over 50mm objectives.
     Quoting the Discovery channel? Really?


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    If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?


    Posted By: Alan Robertson
    Date Posted: June/25/2012 at 11:44
    For me, I like the listed Conquest mag.range and I like Conquest constant eye relief.
    On the other hand, Gold rings are kinda snazzy.


    C'mon guys- he saw it on TV!
    Couldn't you have at least shown him a Counter Sniper with the ultra- trick razzmatazz reticle?



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    "Garg'n uair dhuisgear"


    Posted By: koshkin
    Date Posted: June/25/2012 at 12:11
    Since the thread originator is planning to put this scope on a Ruger chambered for 7mm, i think we can safely assume his application is hunting of some sort.

    From that we can comfortably infer that whatever military snipers choose to use on their guns has approximately zero relevance to this application.  For the record, however, military snipers around the world use day riflescopes with objective lenses ranging in size from 40mm to 72mm, with a 50mm being likely the most prevalent size today.

    Since the OP is looking at 56mm scopes, I presume his application has an emphasis on low light use.
    Between his two options, I would recommend the Conquest.  I think that 3x on the low end will make a difference.

    I would also suggest he consider Meopta Meostar 3-12x56 will illuminated #4, if the eye relief is sufficient.

    Keep in ind that Conquest and Meopta have FFP reticles, while the Leupold has SFP reticle.

    ILya


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    http://www.darklordofoptics.com - www.darklordofoptics.com
    https://rumble.com/c/DLO - Rumble Video Channel


    Posted By: Alan Robertson
    Date Posted: June/25/2012 at 12:37
    Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

    I would also suggest he consider Meopta Meostar 3-12x56 will illuminated #4, if the eye relief is sufficient.

    Keep in ind that Conquest and Meopta have FFP reticles, while the Leupold has SFP reticle.

    ILya
    Yikes, I didn't realize the Conquest has an FFP reticle. That changes my recommendation to the Leupold. All apologies.

    Please forgive my manners- Welcome to the OT forums, flipmo.


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    "Garg'n uair dhuisgear"


    Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
    Date Posted: June/25/2012 at 12:45
    Originally posted by KIMBER8400AT KIMBER8400AT wrote:

    I can bet with anybody that any statements you guys make is not entirely true.  Any statement!
    In the sniper training series (TV documentary), the scopes were less than 50.  I rather have a 40 objective and a larger range than 56 and 3-12 magnification.

    Most. 
    Awesome.
    Post.
    Evar!

    Some had sniper training with no TV involved.
    Koshkin is right, 50mm is the most prevalent.
    Koshkin is also right that comparing a small portion of a sniper's gear to what a hunter needs is wholly irrelevant.

    To the OP, is there a reason you have narrowed it to just those 2?  There are several other good options for a 7mm mag.


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    Freedom is something you take.
    Respect is something you earn.
    Equality is something you whine about not being given.


    Posted By: Steelbenz
    Date Posted: June/25/2012 at 13:28
    Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

    And furthermore......Behold the 56mm, gold standard of "sniper" scopes....
    THE COUNTER SNIPER!!!!! 

    2.5/10-56 Weapon Mountable Optical Gunsights
    Dude, that's just friggin' wrong!    Roll on Floor Laughing

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    "Don't argue with a fool! From a distance you can't really tell who's who!"


    Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
    Date Posted: June/25/2012 at 15:13


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    Freedom is something you take.
    Respect is something you earn.
    Equality is something you whine about not being given.


    Posted By: Obi Wan Kenobi
    Date Posted: June/25/2012 at 15:20
    Originally posted by flipmo flipmo wrote:

    Ok guys I know there are many post like mine on this forum but I would appriciate any info I can get. I have been looking for a new scope for my Ruger 7mm mag and have narrowed it down to two finalist.
    Zeiss Conquest 3-12x56
    Leupold VX 3L 4.5-14x56
    I like both so much that I am having a hard time making a decision.
    Thanks Guys
     
     
    Always go with the Germans in this head to head match up my friend.


    Posted By: flipmo
    Date Posted: June/25/2012 at 16:32
    Thanks for all the Info you'll have given. I am using this for hunting mostly deer. The main reason I did choose the 56mm is for low light conditions. I was really trying to stay around a 30mm tube instead of the 1" also. I guess I have no real reason for narrowing down to these two scopes. These are two that I have had my eye on for some time now. Although I do have a pair of Zeiss binoculars and the glass is great. Thanks again for all your info on helping me with this decision.


    Posted By: SChunter
    Date Posted: June/25/2012 at 21:26
    I have had a leupold varix ii in 3x9 x 50 for about eight years. I replaced this last year with a 3x12x56 zeiss in 30mm.   I got it for a great deal. It has good glass with great low light capabilities. We can hunt one hour past sun down in sc. I recently took this set up to Africa on a 7mag and harvested eight animals. Is there brighter glass? Yes. Are there scopes for less money that are just as bright ? Maybe. But I couldn't find one. There are really good scopes in the under 950 range. I have no problems with the ffp.
    I like the scope and would recommend it.


    Posted By: Outrider
    Date Posted: June/25/2012 at 22:44
    A number of great suggestions here. I would add one more or rather a slight variation of one already listed. Meopta also makes the 3X-12X-56 Meostar with illuminated reticle in a second focal plane format. If you prefer a reticle that remains the same size as magnification is increased, the big Meo in SFP might be worth a look.

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    Outrider


    Posted By: jjrgr21
    Date Posted: June/25/2012 at 23:00
    getting pretty funny kimber, keep it up.


    Posted By: JGRaider
    Date Posted: June/26/2012 at 08:54
    Originally posted by flipmo flipmo wrote:

    Thanks for all the Info you'll have given. I am using this for hunting mostly deer. The main reason I did choose the 56mm is for low light conditions. I was really trying to stay around a 30mm tube instead of the 1" also. I guess I have no real reason for narrowing down to these two scopes. These are two that I have had my eye on for some time now. Although I do have a pair of Zeiss binoculars and the glass is great. Thanks again for all your info on helping me with this decision.



    I've been shooting a 7mag for 40 years now.  Since you are wanting a scope primarily for deer hunting, I'd ditch the 56mm requirement, as any high quality 40mm-50mm obj scope will get you well past legal shooting light anyway.  If you really want a 30mm tubed scope that's simple with fantastic glass you may want to look at the VX6 2-12x42 it is CDS compatible, and on calm days even I can hit targets out to 900 yards, back to 100, and everything in between.   Vortex also has a Viper HS 4-16x44 that has a 30mm tube.  Problem is, at least for me, is that it doesn't have 30mm "guts" and elevation travel is limited, much more so that the VX6.  My conquests are great too, but no better optically to my eyes than my VX3's, and they are a 1" tube. 



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