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Concealed carry?

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Printed Date: December/16/2018 at 11:42


Topic: Concealed carry?
Posted By: scarface_usmc
Subject: Concealed carry?
Date Posted: February/22/2012 at 14:46
Semi-auto Vs. Revolver, Hammer Vs. Hammerless. Differnt holsters? Any thoughts? Couldn't find a thread Dedicated to these here arguments. Figured I'd throw a bone out for my good friends here to gnaw on, along with searching some questions of my own. Your floor go.

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"keep your booger hook off the bang switch!"



Replies:
Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/22/2012 at 14:53
Different situations mean i carry different guns.  Main carry is a CZ PO7 Duty in 9mm.  Rides in a nice Knull IWB holster.  I carry it with the decocker lever installed vs the SA safety installed.  When I'm in dress clothes I carry a S&W wheelgun on my ankle in a nice holster.  The only other gun i sometimes carry is my colt 1903 pocket hammerless, this one will fit nicely under a belt but with the muzzle in the "5th" pocket of a pair of jeans.  When i'm just running out to the store to grab something or walking the dog thats normally what I do.


Posted By: shooter07
Date Posted: February/22/2012 at 15:03

Depends on where i'm going, what season it is, etc, similar to what SVT said above. I've started to open carry some. With places like Starbucks and other limp wristed liberal groups pushing their agenda on carry laws, i'll make sure i excersice my right as i see fit. I know some completely disagree with the open carry concept, but at the end of the day it is a right and it shall not be infringed upon...at least in PA....and many other states for that matter.

I've not once, to this point been asked to leave a place of business. Hell, i've had a couple of older folks ask me why i was carrying a gun that looked like something out of star trek Big GrinWink (my .40 XDM). Hardly anyone has said anything and the few that have, are curious and thank me for being responsible.
 
If people don't like it, i personally don't care. That might come off as prickish, but it's my stance and i believe firmly in my rights and take the responsibility of carrying very seriously.
 
 


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Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

"And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts. And I looked, and behold a pale horse, and his name that sat on him was Death, and hell followed with him."


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: February/22/2012 at 16:35
Glock 33 (.357Sig)  mean and easy to conceal.  With Georgia Arms "canned heat" ammo, it is quite a barn burner...

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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: February/22/2012 at 17:37
Whatever you carry, spend the time and money to get a holster that fits the gun and you.

I couldn't tell you how many idiots I see adjusting their guns because the holster is a cheapo Uncle Mike's with a clip on the belt or similar.

Carry what you know well and are confident in and comfortable with.  When it is needed, training is all you get, brain shuts everything else off.


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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: February/22/2012 at 18:30
Originally posted by shooter07 shooter07 wrote:

Depends on where i'm going, what season it is, etc, similar to what SVT said above. I've started to open carry some. With places like Starbucks and other limp wristed liberal groups pushing their agenda on carry laws, i'll make sure i excersice my right as i see fit. I know some completely disagree with the open carry concept, but at the end of the day it is a right and it shall not be infringed upon...at least in PA....and many other states for that matter.

I've not once, to this point been asked to leave a place of business. Hell, i've had a couple of older folks ask me why i was carrying a gun that looked like something out of star trek Big GrinWink (my .40 XDM). Hardly anyone has said anything and the few that have, are curious and thank me for being responsible.
 
If people don't like it, i personally don't care. That might come off as prickish, but it's my stance and i believe firmly in my rights and take the responsibility of carrying very seriously.
 
 

When I "open carry" and people ask about/comment about it, I merely tell them I am there for their protection and safety...  never had anyone follow up after that. 


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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: February/22/2012 at 19:05
Comp Tac straight paddle holster and a Glock 19. Formerly carried a G17 and Comp Tac paddle holster. 
I can't recommend Comp Tac holsters enough. 

Carried a 1911 Kimber Tac Custom 2 in Safari Land holster for a spell.   
  


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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: shooter07
Date Posted: February/22/2012 at 19:25
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by shooter07 shooter07 wrote:

Depends on where i'm going, what season it is, etc, similar to what SVT said above. I've started to open carry some. With places like Starbucks and other limp wristed liberal groups pushing their agenda on carry laws, i'll make sure i excersice my right as i see fit. I know some completely disagree with the open carry concept, but at the end of the day it is a right and it shall not be infringed upon...at least in PA....and many other states for that matter.

I've not once, to this point been asked to leave a place of business. Hell, i've had a couple of older folks ask me why i was carrying a gun that looked like something out of star trek Big GrinWink (my .40 XDM). Hardly anyone has said anything and the few that have, are curious and thank me for being responsible.
 
If people don't like it, i personally don't care. That might come off as prickish, but it's my stance and i believe firmly in my rights and take the responsibility of carrying very seriously.
 
 

When I "open carry" and people ask about/comment about it, I merely tell them I am there for their protection and safety...  never had anyone follow up after that. 
 
Yeah, like i said it's been a rare occasion for someone to ask me what i'm carrying for (i can count on one hand the # of times it's happned) and i keep it short and sweet. I'm sure it turns off some people and makes them uneasy but really, i feel like i'm being a better citizen by my actions. Some don't agree and that's their right. But in this day in age, where political correctness rules all, i think there are many responsible gun owners who are "affraid" to carry due to being viewed as a nut.
 
And that's a dangerous slope to be on as a society.


-------------
Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

"And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts. And I looked, and behold a pale horse, and his name that sat on him was Death, and hell followed with him."


Posted By: anomad
Date Posted: February/22/2012 at 19:49
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Whatever you carry, spend the time and money to get a holster that fits the gun and you.


And a proper gun belt.


Do you guys use some kind of retention holster when you open carry?
I have seen a few guys with their gun's carried open in holsters/positions that appeared extremely vulnerable to a gun grab.


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: February/22/2012 at 19:56
I prefer to carry concealed as I get plenty of open carry on duty at work.  To me its not about the right to open carry its that I do not wish to give myself away until I need to pull it. I have carried many different pistols as I started in law enforcement when revolvers were the duty gun and automatics were thought of as somewhat un-reliable or not suited to police work. The semi autos of that era were Colt 1911, Browning Hi Power 9mm and S&W  39 &59  9mm. Typically revolvers use more powerful cartridges than semi auto pistols.  While placing the cold steel of a 38 J frame against someones neck will get their attention; pistols in general do not get the respect that a shotgun does.  While all calibers are capable of killing I prefer large powerful cartridges that are more likely to stop an armed agressor. The old sayin that if it does not have a 4 or a 5 in the name of the cartridge it is not adequate has only one exception - 10mm which is a fine cartridge that has not gained wide acceptance.  I think the best holsters are inside the pants holsters and prefer Milt Sparks since Bruce Nelson is dead and am grateful that a few of his designs live on. I believe in the old saying that real cops learned from the SLA - they carry an extra box of bullets in their briefcase. Most of you younger than I will have to google that to understand fully. I also believe that there is little substitute for having a rifle or shotgun no further away than your car.  While I currently carry a Glock 35 (40S&W) I am quite comfortable with most high quality handguns. I believe in carrying enough ammo to have some left when the bad guys run out. Practice shooting as often as possible but realize that undere extreme stress everything just turns bad and your training will kick in so both hands on the pistol out at arms lenght use the sights and shoot true. There is nothing quite as irresponsible as shooting someone you did not intend to shoot so try to realize what is behind the bad guy. Avoid confrontations if possible.

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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/22/2012 at 21:03
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

I prefer to carry concealed as I get plenty of open carry on duty at work.  To me its not about the right to open carry its that I do not wish to give myself away until I need to pull it. 
My thoughts have always been if I pull it out. I'm gonna use it. 


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: February/22/2012 at 21:08
You guys are toooo vicious for me...




-------------
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/22/2012 at 21:19
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

You guys are toooo vicious for me...


HA!  if you'll do this to a poor defensless tree what will you do to a bad guy? or the first guy your daughter brings home from collegeShocked
 



Posted By: R H Clark
Date Posted: February/22/2012 at 22:05
The first thing is to decide what you are able to conceal and carry at "all" times. If it isn't comfortable chances are you will eventually just leave it in the car. Where you live and how you dress as well as your body size will all factor into that decision.
 
I want as light as possible for caliber,sweat proof,and without a safety to fumble with when dexterity goes south.
 
In the winter I usually carry a Glock 36 inside the waist band with a shirt covering on my strong side.I agree a quality holster is a must. In summer I carry a Kahr P380 in a front pocket holster.The Kahr is great for shorts and light  T shirts.


Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: February/22/2012 at 23:10
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

  To me its not about the right to open carry its that I do not wish to give myself away until I need to pull it. 


Thunbs Up


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Fish to Live, Live to Hunt


Posted By: shooter07
Date Posted: February/23/2012 at 04:29
The notion about "giving yourself away" is a bit overblown in my opinion. Just about every crook that goes in to rob a place or cause trouble, etc, doesn't have the intent to shoot or kill. Does it happen? Absolutely, but it's rare based on the number of crimes that happen every day in this country.
 
The only argument the anti open carry crowd has is that is paints you as a target. While that may be true on a small scale, i firmly believe that having a gun in plain sight is much, much more of a deterant than a sign on my back that says shoot me first. Look at the number of crimes committed in this country and then correlate it to armed crimes and then actual use of a deadly weapon. Most people have zero intention of going all the way. I tend to believe that if a person is on the fence and they see a person(s) armed, it gives them pause. Do i really want to go through with this? What if i miss? Who is that guy? Etc, etc. It adds doubt and causes hesitation to almost every person meaning to do something wrong...
 
The worst crime rates in this country reside in places where you can barely even own a firearm, let alone carry it. Cops carry in plain sight and most people aren't walking into a place and doing something illegal with an armed cop standing by. A person in plain clothes, armed, isn't much different. It's a psychological factor that really makes sense, i think.
 
And again, FTR, i don't open carry much. I simply believe that having a gun in plain sight deters many, many more than the other way around. Just my .02


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Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

"And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts. And I looked, and behold a pale horse, and his name that sat on him was Death, and hell followed with him."


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: February/23/2012 at 05:40
Ya, there are those that are obsessed with trying to conceal and do so without regard to....you know...actually being able to get to the damn firearm quickly and firing, in the regrettable event that they ever have to.   
Straps, in the small of the back, in your underwear carry, chest rigs, release buttons...blah blah. Even in states where open carry is legal, like most of my state, NC. 

First thing on my list is quick access to the gun......Concealment ranks dead last on my list, but I like to keep it covered when I can, but NEVER at the expense of speed of deployment. When sh*t goes down, I feel like I'm already going to be behind the curve, in most cases. Add to the fact that I'm using a handgun, which isn't the best personal defense platform to start with. It's a distant 3rd behind a rifle and shotgun, at least in my case.  

Bill Roger's said during a class I attended once that, "Gunfights are won and lost, not in seconds, but in fractions of seconds".         


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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: February/23/2012 at 05:47
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:


Carry what you know well and are confident in and comfortable with.  When it is needed, training is all you get, brain shuts everything else off.

Pretty much sums it up.  


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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: February/23/2012 at 08:02
It was defective and the wind was blowing, Graham...

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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: helo18
Date Posted: February/23/2012 at 09:31
I primarily carry my 1911 Compact 45 ACP.  I have carried SoB, IWB and just a regular high ride inside the jacket.  Not a huge fan of IWB.

Once I get more time with it, I may carry the PPS 40 I got.

And I know some say that you shouldn't carry the 1911 with the hammer cocked, but I think that is stupid to carry without a round in the chamber.  I run cocked, safety on.  That gun will be ready right when I need it.


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To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

GEORGE WASHINGTON


Posted By: Sparky
Date Posted: February/23/2012 at 13:46
Another place to go that has some good info is the Sig Forum. I have both semi autos and revolvers. Depends on what and where I am going to be.

http://sigforum.com


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: February/23/2012 at 14:25
I never carry a gunWhistling

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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/23/2012 at 14:32
key word there "a"

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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: February/23/2012 at 14:37
What were we talkin about?Stare

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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: February/23/2012 at 15:51
I'm not going to talk about what or how I carry (if I did). I'm not going to talk about revolver vs auto, or caliber x vs caliber y. I might talk about times past and experience, but mainly, I'll talk theory (and we've done this before). I carried concealed at a time when it was illegal in my state to do so except for certain occupations, and I was required to do so in my occupation. The only times I didn't carry was when I was at home, or I wasn't wearing underware; at least thats what I'd tell my friends when they asked me if I was carrying. I've had some bad experiences while carrying, but none bad enough to prevent me from being here today, but they were educational. I've also heard from others in my occupation and their experiences. I can't cover everyting in one post, so I'm not going to try. I'll just post when I can.
One thing I will say now, just having a gun doesn't guarantee victory in a gunfight. And from there I have to goHowdy


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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: February/23/2012 at 16:05
Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:


And I know some say that you shouldn't carry the 1911 with the hammer cocked, but I think that is stupid to carry without a round in the chamber.  I run cocked, safety on.  That gun will be ready right when I need it.

Cocked and locked....100% agree. 


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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: Sgt. D
Date Posted: February/23/2012 at 19:01
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

You guys are toooo vicious for me...


HA!  if you'll do this to a poor defensless tree what will you do to a bad guy? or the first guy your daughter brings home from collegeShocked
 

.
 
Thanks for the laugh SVT. It was a good call. Its all good KB. Oh, As someone who deals with a fair amount of timber. I'd stay away from the weak tree and wind reasoning.Wink


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Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA!


Posted By: Steelbenz
Date Posted: February/23/2012 at 19:41
Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

.One thing I will say now, just having a gun doesn't guarantee victory in a gunfight.
 

I will readily agree with that statement!  But not having a gun in a gun fight GUARANTEES loosing it!


LOL!


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"Don't argue with a fool! From a distance you can't really tell who's who!"


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: February/23/2012 at 19:52
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

I prefer to carry concealed as I get plenty of open carry on duty at work.  To me its not about the right to open carry its that I do not wish to give myself away until I need to pull it. 
My thoughts have always been if I pull it out. I'm gonna use it. 
Smoking Bandit
Well as a civilian that may be the plan, but I can assure you that there was seldom a month when I was a police officer in Texas that I did not have to draw a pistol on somebody to control the situation and prevent anyone from being hurt.  Now Iowa seems to be a different story but we do have a few dangerous people here also. One just is not allowed to shoot everyone who needs to be shot, so sometimes it is better to have a show of force to allow you to create distance or control the threat without having to kill someone.  Speaking as someone who has had to shoot a bad guy in the commission of a felony - there is a lot of worry and grief involved even when you are right. Do that as a civilian and you may spend all you have in attorneys fees - so unless its really clear cut like a felony in progress the better part of valor may be to avoid the conflict.  laws vary by state significantly.   The choice go go armed is a life time commitment to avoidance and de-escalation of conflict. Unfortunately situations can occur where you get sucked into a problem and have to deal with dangerous people and when you do; to survive it you must be agressive enough quickly enough. Creating distance is your friend.  


-------------

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: Sgt. D
Date Posted: February/23/2012 at 20:07
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Ya, there are those that are obsessed with trying to conceal and do so without regard to....you know...actually being able to get to the damn firearm quickly and firing, in the regrettable event that they ever have to.   
Straps, in the small of the back, in your underwear carry, chest rigs, release buttons...blah blah. Even in states where open carry is legal, like most of my state, NC. 

First thing on my list is quick access to the gun......Concealment ranks dead last on my list, but I like to keep it covered when I can, but NEVER at the expense of speed of deployment. When sh*t goes down, I feel like I'm already going to be behind the curve, in most cases. Add to the fact that I'm using a handgun, which isn't the best personal defense platform to start with. It's a distant 3rd behind a rifle and shotgun, at least in my case.  

Bill Roger's said during a class I attended once that, "Gunfights are won and lost, not in seconds, but in fractions of seconds".         
.
 
Pratice, Pratice, Pratice drawing from where ever you carry. Pratice drawing empty so you develope good habits of clearing yourself before bearing down on the trigger. You can't know if you will be the focus of an attacker, where suprise and quick response puts you back in control. Or if you have to come to the defense of another. I prefer concealed because it gives me the choice of when and how I respond. When I was in the gunshop it was a given that I was carrying whether It was visible or not. In that situation I expected to be the focus of an aggresor. In public I want to appear bland and unassuming. The days of being the "Big Dog" no longer appeal to me. Not saying that anyone here is projecting that.
Whatever I carry I prefer it be double action, one in the pipe hammer down. Safeties are for single actions hammer back and can get you hurt in a rush. Unless you Pratice, Pratice, Pratice.
I prefer the Beretta 357sig ( you know it Dan) and the CZ82 9X18 has really impressed me. Hornady makes defense rounds for it and they are worthy. For most women and any men who just can't or don't get to the range "often" a revolver is the most reliable choice, .38 or larger preferably. The thing I try to stress to new gun owners is the responsibility of learning their weapon. I tell them to imagine themselves being a bystander in a gun fight where one is a paniced attacker and the other is a good guy blasting away more paniced than the attacker. I've seen guys keep thier head, some freeze and others totally loose it. An armed public is ideal but, the unpraticed citizen is a potential disaster. One of my greatest concerns in combat and at home is loosing focus of whats beyond my target. I want to defeat my enemy but not at the expence of a Mom, Dad or child who happened to be there. If your gonna carry it you've got to do everything in your power to be worthy of it.


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Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA!


Posted By: Sgt. D
Date Posted: February/23/2012 at 20:28
Originally posted by scarface_usmc scarface_usmc wrote:

Semi-auto Vs. Revolver, Hammer Vs. Hammerless. Differnt holsters? Any thoughts? Couldn't find a thread Dedicated to these here arguments. Figured I'd throw a bone out for my good friends here to gnaw on, along with searching some questions of my own. Your floor go.
.
 
I prefer a hammer for pratice purposes but for pocket carry and for women I recomend hammerless to prevent snagging or hangups in a rush. Most hammerless guns are not gonna be good target guns and they do require a good bit of range time to get accustom to trigger travel and pull weight. Their most effective range is gonna be 10ft. or less and shooting from the hip. Aiming belly guns is a luxuary that most situations don't allow.
Holsters are a hard call because of personal preference. I prefer shoulder or inside the pants but honestly even they are a nusence most of the time. After being in the gunshop I am more conditioned to carrying but nothing so comfortable that I forget I have it on.


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Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA!


Posted By: Tip69
Date Posted: February/23/2012 at 22:02
what do you guys think of Ruger's LCP/9/R?

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take em!


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/24/2012 at 07:43
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

I prefer to carry concealed as I get plenty of open carry on duty at work.  To me its not about the right to open carry its that I do not wish to give myself away until I need to pull it. 
My thoughts have always been if I pull it out. I'm gonna use it. 
Smoking Bandit
Well as a civilian that may be the plan, but I can assure you that there was seldom a month when I was a police officer in Texas that I did not have to draw a pistol on somebody to control the situation and prevent anyone from being hurt.  Now Iowa seems to be a different story but we do have a few dangerous people here also. One just is not allowed to shoot everyone who needs to be shot, so sometimes it is better to have a show of force to allow you to create distance or control the threat without having to kill someone.  Speaking as someone who has had to shoot a bad guy in the commission of a felony - there is a lot of worry and grief involved even when you are right. Do that as a civilian and you may spend all you have in attorneys fees - so unless its really clear cut like a felony in progress the better part of valor may be to avoid the conflict.  laws vary by state significantly.   The choice go go armed is a life time commitment to avoidance and de-escalation of conflict. Unfortunately situations can occur where you get sucked into a problem and have to deal with dangerous people and when you do; to survive it you must be agressive enough quickly enough. Creating distance is your friend.  
I agree 100% with what you said here Wes,  thing about it is if i have to pull it, i'm gonna use it.  BUT! for me to pull it I'm going to know 100% the threat of my safety or my families is unavoidable

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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: February/24/2012 at 08:18
SVT=Francis in "Stripes"...

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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/24/2012 at 08:22
never seen it.  that a compliment or are you picking on me again...Bucky

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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: February/24/2012 at 08:35
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

never seen it.  that a compliment or are you picking on me again...Bucky

watch the movie... you'll love it... Bill Murray at his best

picking on you, of course... you are so EASY....


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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: February/24/2012 at 11:08
Comments from Rancid, KB, Sarge D, and others here, carry a LOT more weight too me, than those comments from others, like me, who have not wielded a weapon while in harms way. 
These guys have lived the life. I covet their experience.  

What I'm witnessing at my local range are a bunch of would be pistoleers running around shooting up mag after mag, devil may care, into a 25 yard berm at paper targets, orange clays and sometimes even balloons. Bucky
90%, are DEVOID of any proper shooting techniques, stances, accuracy or acceptable weapon handling skills...and please don't get me started on basic firearms safety, which I consider abysmal out there.   
Ya'll are HORRIBLE !!!!!!! Whacko Wink 

IF...these range rat plinkers ever found themselves in a "Situation" and had to defend their lives with a pistol, I shudder to think about the possible outcome. Under stress, as Rancid eluded to, the first thing that goes is a persons fine motor skills. These folks I'm seeing can't properly handle a pistol at the range, let alone when everything is going South.   

Now, I freely admit that I'm a "work in progress" on my pistol shooting skills and I've got a ways to go, I've not "arrived", but I've made it a point to get the best training available to me and do try and practice my draw, reloads, sight picture, malfunction drills, etc. on a regular basis, and then shoot my pistol once a month. I wish it were more.
At the house, I draw and dry fire my G19 several times a week. Shooting skill is a perishable commodity, I once read and I firmly believe that. 
Even though I try to run gun drills often, I'm quite sure that if and when I'm faced with a life or death situation, I'll be LESS PROFICIENT in that scenario, then I am at the range or standing in my room in my underwear doing dry fire, trigger control practice. Big Grin 
  
The pistol is the hardest weapon to master, in my mind. Shotgun and rifle proficiency generally comes more natural to most people. At least it did too me. It's easier to get "hits" with those 2. Probably why the worlds military's use the rifle as it's primary weapon and not a pistol. 
 
My advice to those that carry a side arm is to attend a local training class and learn the BASICS. I've been to 5 or 6 classes, some better than others, but I've always learned something. Then, attend other advanced classes and get better. 
As inept as a pistol is as a personal defense weapon, it's probably going to be the one most civilians have to go to if you are outside your house and have to defend yourself or your family. You owe it to yourself and your family to be the best you can be.  
  


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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/24/2012 at 11:44
Good post Cheap.  The more classes I take, the more I realize I don't know nothin.  And the more I realize I gotta keep taking tactics classes.  

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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: February/24/2012 at 11:47
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Comments from Rancid, KB, Sarge D, and others here, carry a LOT more weight too me, than those comments from others, like me, who have not wielded a weapon while in harms way. 
These guys have lived the life. I covet their experience.  
 
Their comments carry enough weight that it would break a lesser mans jaw?


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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: February/24/2012 at 11:57
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Good post Cheap.  The more classes I take, the more I realize I don't know nothin.  .  

EXACTLY! You made me point for me. 

Graham, I don't dismiss anybody else's experience, but if the subject is "combat", when those that have actually been there are talking, I like to be listening. Wink


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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: February/24/2012 at 12:24
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

never seen it.  that a compliment or are you picking on me again...Bucky

watch the movie... you'll love it... Bill Murray at his best

picking on you, of course... you are so EASY....




Great movie!!! Thunbs Up


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Fish to Live, Live to Hunt


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: February/24/2012 at 12:34
GREAT movie, indeed! Those OD green fatigues bring back a lot of memories...  

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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: Sparky
Date Posted: February/24/2012 at 12:47
 Very well said cheaptrick! I could not agree with you more.

And I know about the would be pistoleers running around. They scare me enough that I generally do not shoot when they are shooting. They are just an accident waiting to happen.


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: February/24/2012 at 13:08
Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

 Very well said cheaptrick! I could not agree with you more.

And I know about the would be pistoleers running around. They scare me enough that I generally do not shoot when they are shooting. They are just an accident waiting to happen.

Sparky, I didn't begin to even mention the "AR/AK crowd".....AK 47  
I wanted to pimp slap these dudes the other day that were shooting off their Saiga AK's next to me at the range. Roll Eyes 
They blew about 2000 rounds showing each other how best to bump fire.....


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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: trigger29
Date Posted: February/24/2012 at 16:37
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

I prefer to carry concealed as I get plenty of open carry on duty at work.  To me its not about the right to open carry its that I do not wish to give myself away until I need to pull it. 
My thoughts have always been if I pull it out. I'm gonna use it. 
If that situation comes, you may feel differently. I had the same thought. Only ever had to draw once. My first time ever lost in the wrong part of a "city" at 23:30, I pulled into an alley to try to get my bearings. I knew I was in the WRONG part of town, and just wanted out. Someone pulled in behind me, and I got out to ask him for help. It was a mistake. He was wielding a very large knife. (In my horror, it could have been a sword, I was pretty shaken)  When I realized what he wanted I immediately started to draw, before he got close to me. Once the hand came out of the holster he was the scared looking one, and him,  and his buddy started screaming that I was crazy, and ran for their vehicle. I was prepared to use it, and would have if needed, but at that moment, thinking of the consequences of shooting someone, I really didn't want to. I agree that sometimes the show of force is plenty to change someones mind.
This happened near Tip's neck of the woods, he may even be familiar with the area. I sure hope he carries.....


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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


Posted By: Tip69
Date Posted: February/24/2012 at 21:41
You should have called me........ I'm in the book!    Note to all,  don't pull into "alleys" in Omaha..... those are pretty much sh*t neighborhoods!!!   If you find yourself in a neighborhood after dark that has alleys, call me and I'll walk you thru getting out of there.   This would include the area around the Zoo and the CenturyLink/College World Series park/Airport.

Glad it worked out for you Jason... that could have been really bad.


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take em!


Posted By: trigger29
Date Posted: February/24/2012 at 22:32
I found out real quick how it could turn bad in a hurry. Was more in the north Omaha area. I won't make that mistake again.

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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


Posted By: scarface_usmc
Date Posted: February/25/2012 at 19:53
Nobody will truly ever understand how "speed of light" fast the situation can go from completely safe to death, until they experience it personelly. That being said. I believe regardless of weapon, weapon location, holster. When it happens it happens, and no amount of training could ever prepare you for the next few seconds. But the repetition and Muscle memory could mean the difference between life and death, not just for you. But the ones you hold so dear also. The countless hours I have spent Drawing, aiming, and dry firing from different positions Sitting, standing, leaning have IMO givin me the ability to in the moment ACT and not think. "PLOP" their thats me hopping off my soap box! As for the choice of weapon, having had my sidearm fail me when I needed it most(not going to name the brand)!! I will no longer trust my life to a semi-auto say what you will thats just me. I carry a Taurus .357. Very easy to draw, point, and click and when you pull the trigger it goes boom EVERYTIME!!              

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"keep your booger hook off the bang switch!"


Posted By: tahqua
Date Posted: February/25/2012 at 22:11
Depending on season, G19 or G20, IWB. Wheel guns have no exposed hammers. Mine are Colts.

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Doug


Posted By: Longhunter
Date Posted: February/26/2012 at 17:05
"Carry" is the first operative word here.  If you don't carry it ALL the time, it doesn't matter what you like or recommend.
 
Different folks carry in different clothes and different situations.  Pocket carry works best with a small, flat, lightweight gun, unless you're in work clothes or uniform.  Once you go to waistband carry, a large caliber pistol or revolver is just as easy to carry as a small one.
 
I carry a Kel-Tek .32 loaded with Winchester Silvertips ALL the time.  It's small enough that I'm not even aware it's there...unless it's needed.
 
I add a Glock 23, S&W .357, or S&W .44 Mag when traveling, heading into the woods, or going to (or through) a possible trouble spot or situation.
 
One or two experiences do not make an expert.  Mind-set and training are everything.  Know your gun, practice with it, keep it clean with fresh ammunition, and be mentally prepared to do what you need to do with the weapon at hand.
 


Posted By: Bitterroot Bulls
Date Posted: February/26/2012 at 17:54
Anything is better than nothing.  I carry a G23 concealed.  It is a fine weapon and has never, I mean NEVER, failed to go bang, in thousands of rounds.  Reliability is requirement #1.  Drawing a sidearm in a high stress situation goes to gross motor and muscle memory.  Choosing the flavor of the week weapon is not the best idea in these situations.  Train with one weapon system, carry the same, and put its operation in muscle memory.

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-Matt


Posted By: gulf1263
Date Posted: February/26/2012 at 19:09
Be aware that the bad guy's are sociopath's, they practice (yes it's true) and many are even psychopath's using robbery as an excuse to hurt or kill someone.
A series of prison interviews has shown that over 65% of criminals using guns are now beginning to practice..ranges have increased in gunfights and the bad guys are using backup armed with AK's.
If a person chooses to open carry that is OK but if things go bad and there happens to be a off duty law enforcement officer (local, state or federal) they are liable to put a few in you just to be safe.
Look at all the off duty officers that get tagged every year, even flashing their badges and you will see what I mean.
Life is NOT fair..when things go bad you may have good and bad guys shooting at you if you open carry.
Any bad guy who wanted to commit violence would simply execute you first and not even have a moment of hesitation..if they plan to kill, you are just a speed bump and have lost the advantage of surprise..these people think nothing about taking out a uniformed police officer by walking up and assassinating them.. then what chance would a civilian have using open carry.
You can argue all you want but "Life is NOT fair".
Away from civilization it has it's place and is a very good idea.
However since the first rule of gunfighting is "having a gun" then it is better than nothing..just don't expect to survive against really bad guys. (some of these turds have seen more actions than our people
in Iraq and Afganistan).
There have been times when I simply walked out of a stop & rob and called the local police to report bad people ready to do bad things..by the time patrol got there the bad guys had herded everyone in the back and may have been ready to kill them.
If I had tried to step in the bad guys back up playing a customer would have taken me out.
Be careful out there.
Art






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Good day.


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: February/28/2012 at 11:11
Originally posted by Steelbenz Steelbenz wrote:

Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

.One thing I will say now, just having a gun doesn't guarantee victory in a gunfight.
 

I will readily agree with that statement!  But not having a gun in a gun fight GUARANTEES loosing it!


LOL!
Steel, I hate to disagree with you, but, I do.
I hate knives. A person with a knife is far more dangerous at close range than a person with a gun. Think about it, a knife never jams, never runs out of ammo, and can do more damage to a body than any 45 poking a hole in meat.
There has been more than one incident where the knife weilder won the fight (if there was a fight) over a person with a gun. If a person has a knife in hand and is within 21 feet of a person with a gun in a holster, the odds are in the favor of the knife holder. The reactionary gap, to percieve the threat, formulate a plan, and put it into action is longer than the time it takes for the knife holder, who already has a plan, to close that distance and start cutting.
This isn't some theory I came up with. I have seen it proven many times in many classes, and have seen and read more than one incident, where the person with a gun lost to a person with a knife.
Situational awareness is the key to survival.


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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: shooter07
Date Posted: February/28/2012 at 12:04
Ah, the ole 21 foot reference. Good call BF, as it's statisically very true.
 
Also, your last sentence is spot on. Being aware of your surroundings and having a plan before you set foot out the door, is paramount. If you wait to react to a situation, you're likely not going to end up on the winning side. Know the your closest exit, closest place of cover, alternate weapons (ie things that could be used as weapons in lieu of a gun, knife etc).
 
That and practice, A LOT!


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Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

"And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts. And I looked, and behold a pale horse, and his name that sat on him was Death, and hell followed with him."


Posted By: Stevey Ducks
Date Posted: March/14/2012 at 00:47
I have 4 hanguns.
 
For daily, all the time carry, a Ruger LCR .357 loaded with 125gr .38 SP +P loads is the one. No slide, no safety - just pull the trigger
 
For out in the forests or where possible threats may be large animals a Ruger 4 5/8 inch .44 Mag Super Blackhawk loaded with either 250 gr Sierra jacketed target bullets or 270 gr Speer Deep Curl bullets is the one. I also carry bear spray.
 
I have a Kimber 1911 that I open carry at the range but for me it is too big to easily conceal and not as powerful as the .44 Mag. Decades ago, I toted a 1911 around when performing my daily chores in S.E. Asia (cocked & locked).
 
My .22 LR Ruger MKII is fun to shoot. My little dear wife has a 4 inch stainless .357 Taurus tracker.
 
Other thoughts - when I drove a cab I carried an 7 inch U.S. Ontario knife - using a diamond hone a razor edge can easily be put on them. Some time ago (this really happened) a tourist in the Olympic National Park in Washington state was gored to death by a mountain goat - he bled out from a deep stab wound in the thigh. In my local area of N. Idaho there have been several moose attacks. Numerous violent felonies occur on a regular basis within 3 miles of where I live.
 
On occassions I carry a Ruger Mini 14 locked up and concealed in my car trunk. For back east, in various "peoples democratic workers paradise" states when fishing for striped bass I have a large can of pepper spray and a large fillet knife (thats because I only catch big bass) 
 
I hate violence and like to peacefully go about my business and when at all possible cheerfully go out of my way to avoid it - my plan.


Posted By: SamC
Date Posted: March/14/2012 at 04:37
My personal preference is:
Winter carry http://us.glock.com/products/model/g23 - http://us.glock.com/products/model/g23  
Summer carry http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_764938_-1_757768_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y - http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_764938_-1_757768_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y
Sam

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Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Winston Churchill


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: March/14/2012 at 09:29
I'd like to see S&W bring back their titanium hammerless J-frame .32 H&R Magnum, and it would be even better in .327 Magnum. It had 6 shots vs. 5 of a .38spl, and the same power as a .38spl. It would make a great pocket carry pistol, especially in a coat or jacket pocket.
I used to live 2 blocks from 2 corners in the city that had more street robberies than any other location in the city. I always thought it would be better to have my hand on my weapon in the front pocket of my coat if approached by a street robber, than to make that overt action for my weapon. A hammerless revolver has nothing to snag or hang up on your clothes, and could be fired multiple times from the pocket. Can't do that with your little .380 auto.


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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: rocket99
Date Posted: October/01/2012 at 21:33
Glock 19 in a crossbreed all day every day


Posted By: smesk403
Date Posted: October/01/2012 at 21:57
everybody's different some prefer teh wheel guns others prefer semis. they all have their features and drawbacks.


Posted By: SamC
Date Posted: October/01/2012 at 23:36
What's that old saying "that small gun in your pocket is better than that big gun in your safe".

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Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Winston Churchill


Posted By: gulf1263
Date Posted: October/03/2012 at 16:56
Given that there are now small, reliable locked breech 9mm's available there is less of a need to carry a .25, .32 or .380.
I am 5/5 and can carry a Kahr P9 or S&W Shield in a pocket holster pretty much everywhere but the beach, YMMV.
Eight rounds of quality 9mm beats six of .25 acp any day.
Health problems can prevent me from carrying a full size, all steel 1911 but not my 9mm.
A nosey individual once asked me what I had in my pocket and I told him a really pretty lady had just gone bye, he shut up and left me alone.
With a particularly baggy style of pants I can carry my M&P 45c and infact have carried the 45c and the P9 without anyone noticing.
It took awhile and quite a few holsters to find what worked best for my daily carry needs, everyone is different build wise and needs to find what works best for them.
Art


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Good day.


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: October/03/2012 at 18:50
It sounds like this whole concealed carry thing requires all sorts of decision making.

You should move to California and the decision making will be done for you.  I think the official recommendation of our police officers for those occasions when you are being attacked by a violent criminal is to bend over and push...

Or was it a recommendation by the mayor of Los Angeles?  I forget exactly.

ILya


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http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://fb.me/DarkLordOfOptics - Facebook
The greatest obstacle to discovery is the illusion of knowledge


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: October/03/2012 at 18:54
Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

Originally posted by Steelbenz Steelbenz wrote:

Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

.One thing I will say now, just having a gun doesn't guarantee victory in a gunfight.
 

I will readily agree with that statement!  But not having a gun in a gun fight GUARANTEES loosing it!


LOL!
Steel, I hate to disagree with you, but, I do.
I hate knives. A person with a knife is far more dangerous at close range than a person with a gun. Think about it, a knife never jams, never runs out of ammo, and can do more damage to a body than any 45 poking a hole in meat.
There has been more than one incident where the knife weilder won the fight (if there was a fight) over a person with a gun. If a person has a knife in hand and is within 21 feet of a person with a gun in a holster, the odds are in the favor of the knife holder. The reactionary gap, to percieve the threat, formulate a plan, and put it into action is longer than the time it takes for the knife holder, who already has a plan, to close that distance and start cutting.
This isn't some theory I came up with. I have seen it proven many times in many classes, and have seen and read more than one incident, where the person with a gun lost to a person with a knife.
Situational awareness is the key to survival.

Since it is virtually impossible to get a concealed carry license in California, I have focused quite a bit on becoming proficient with a knife since a folding knife is still legal to have with you under most circumstances.

I have seen the 21ft number mentioned a number of times and it is probably a decent estimate when not very trained person with a concealed handgun is facing a reasonably trained and determined attacker with a knife.

Unfortunately, the dynamic changes if the attacker has a gun and you are protecting yourself with a knife.  Thankfully, most thugs around here barely know which side of the gun the bullet comes out of, but the day they start practicing, California is going to hell in a handbasket.

ILya


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http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://fb.me/DarkLordOfOptics - Facebook
The greatest obstacle to discovery is the illusion of knowledge


Posted By: tman1965
Date Posted: October/03/2012 at 19:39
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

It sounds like this whole concealed carry thing requires all sorts of decision making.

You should move to California and the decision making will be done for you.  I think the official recommendation of our police officers for those occasions when you are being attacked by a violent criminal is to bend over and push...

Or was it a recommendation by the mayor of Los Angeles?  I forget exactly.

ILya
ROFLMAO!! My wife is from Ca. and I spent some time out there. Laws and politics there are just plain rediculous! nothing personal, but I think I'll just keep my arse right here in Ga.!


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Sometimes my tongue outruns my brain and I say something I haven't thought of yet!



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