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Any reviews out yet for the Viper 1-4 PST?

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Category: Scopes
Forum Name: Tactical Scopes
Forum Description: Police and military tools of the trade
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Topic: Any reviews out yet for the Viper 1-4 PST?
Posted By: greywolf
Subject: Any reviews out yet for the Viper 1-4 PST?
Date Posted: January/28/2011 at 18:51
Can't seem to find any "real" or professional reviews yet on the Viper PST 1-4 scopes?  Not the HD pricey model, but the $500 one - interested in mil/mil MRAD reticle one.
 
Looking at using it on my AR and replacing an Aimpoint Micro.
 
Can anyone help me find some good write-ups?
 
Thanks!



Replies:
Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: January/28/2011 at 18:54
I am waiting for the SS1-4.  Having personal experience with that, it is worth the $$ and the wait.

-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: gglass
Date Posted: January/28/2011 at 21:34
+1 for the SS 1x4. I'll definitely be asking the wife for one of these on my next birthday. 

I like most of the Viper PST line, but the SS 1x4 wins this battle in my opinion.


-------------
"Let me guess... This isn't about the alcohol or tobacco."


Posted By: greywolf
Date Posted: January/29/2011 at 09:41
If the SS isn't even out yet, how can it win out?
 
I have 2 SS 3-9x scopes and love them, but right now since the Vortex is out and the SS isn't . . . . .
 
Is there a big difference between the two?  Is one a FFP and the other a SFP?  I assume different reticles.
 


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: January/29/2011 at 09:50
Rancid was one of the first to get a look at the SS 1-4 and he had one last year when I dropped by and talked to the guys at SWFA  in Dallas. The SS is FFP look at the photos of the way the reticle works.  I just have a hard time getting excited about a 1-4 power anything but I love my 1.5x compact ACOG and my 3x ACOG  so Im sure there are a lot of guys who will love the 1-4 SS

-------------

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: January/29/2011 at 10:42
Originally posted by greywolf greywolf wrote:

If the SS isn't even out yet, how can it win out?
 
I have 2 SS 3-9x scopes and love them, but right now since the Vortex is out and the SS isn't . . . . .
 
Is there a big difference between the two?  Is one a FFP and the other a SFP?  I assume different reticles.
 
The SS are in transit to SWFA now, customs hold ups at the moment last I heard, (not saying this is the case but what i remember reading and releyed to me last) They will be shipping hopefully in the next few weeks.  I would wager to say that the time the pst 1-4s get shiping to new orders the SS would be at the same time.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: January/29/2011 at 11:10
As Ufriend said, though not out yet, I have first-hand experience with them and would say they are worth the $$.

I haven't had hands on the PST yet, but my money is going to the SS.  


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: January/29/2011 at 12:45
There is considerable price difference between SS and PST 1-4x24 models.

Figure out how much you are willing to spend.  If you are do not want to spend more than $500, then PST is almost the only game in town (although I liked the HS version of 1-4x24 a little more).

If you are willing to spend a little more, than options open up a bit.

ILya


-------------
http://www.darklordofoptics.com - www.darklordofoptics.com
https://rumble.com/c/DLO - Rumble Video Channel


Posted By: Flanny
Date Posted: April/07/2011 at 14:46
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

As Ufriend said, though not out yet, I have first-hand experience with them and would say they are worth the $$.
I haven't had hands on the PST yet, but my money is going to the SS.  


So does that mean that you are completly biased towards SS? If you haven't had hands on the PST and are blindly saying your money is going to SS, how do we trust your opinion?

Im not trying to be a jerk, but im really confused on what to buy as a first time scope buyer and seeing something like this doesn't help.

I think I have been getting a lot of great advice and have learned a lot in a week of talking to people on here that are so willing to help. However this smells like a bit of a homer job.

Sorry in advance if I misunderstood something or am missing out on somehing.


Posted By: Flanny
Date Posted: April/07/2011 at 14:52
I shouldn't have said blindly since you have seen the SS but rather one sided. And im sure you are going on a wealth or experience in dealing with other Vortex scopes but it just seemed strange to me.


Posted By: Midwest_Hunter
Date Posted: April/07/2011 at 15:09
Haven't seen the SS yet, but got to look at a PST so I might as well defend it. I personally wouldn't pay more for less features and similar glass, but thats me. I understand the SS is available in FFP but in a 1-4x24 scope I don't need FFP. The PST would be my personal choice, but i'm sure the SS is a damn fine scope as well. It all really depends on your budget.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: April/07/2011 at 15:13
First, I said "my money."

Next, this is a fairly old thread and much has changed since the initial statements.
Finally, I tend to buy based on experience, meaning the product and the company.

I am not bias toward the SS. Having owned/used almost everything on the market in1-4, I know the landscape pretty well. And now that the PAY is out, as is the SS, I stand behind the recommendation.

The SS is worth the $$.

-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: April/07/2011 at 15:16
The SS is fantastic.  I liked it so much I bought two of them, and would like two more of them.  

-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: April/07/2011 at 15:20
Flanny watch your step on this:  Rancid Coolaid is the one person on this forum who has personally owned and used virtually every high quality tactical scope made.  He is an end user of tactical products and by no means influenced by any factor other than the usefulness of the product.
 
The fact is:  He got to test the scope hands on long before I even got to see the basic info on it.  He has hands on experience with the Super Sniper HD 1-4 and at this point several of other people now also have that optic. I have had a Viper PST scope in hand and I do not believe it compares to the level of quality of the Super Sniper 1-4 HD.  As for "how do we trust your opinion"  --   Rancid Coolaid has earned the respect of those of us who have been here a long time because his advise is consistently good.  You however have not even clearly  states what your intended use and weapon system is so you might start there.    


-------------

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: Flanny
Date Posted: April/07/2011 at 15:53
I understand where you are coming from. And I figured it was on past experience. But its not really fair to recommend something when you haven't seen what you are putting it over. For someone like me that has used neither and really is in the dark about scopes it just seems odd.
Hell at this point I think I need to pick who I think is the most informed person on here and have them give me their best recommendation and go buy something. I am in the information overload part in the purchasing process.

Not trying to be disrespful


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: April/07/2011 at 15:59
Do you understand why I said this:
You however have not even clearly  states what your intended use and weapon system is so you might start there. 
If you want advise on a scope start by telling us what rifle in what caliber and how you intend to use it at what distance.  If we understand better what you need might be we can then recommend one or more choices that you ultimately select from.  If it is for law enforcement or military application or hunting or 3gun or target or plinking - that makes a lot of difference in what is the correct choice.  The distance you will shoot also makes a huge difference.  The amount of money someone is able to spend often limits their choices and more money means better choices.  Try giving us basic info first.......


-------------

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: Flanny
Date Posted: April/07/2011 at 16:12
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Flanny watch your step on this:  Rancid Coolaid is the one person on this forum who has personally owned and used virtually every high quality tactical scope made.  He is an end user of tactical products and by no means influenced by any factor other than the usefulness of the product.
 

The fact is:  He got to test the scope hands on long before I even got to see the basic info on it.  He has hands on experience with the Super Sniper HD 1-4 and at this point several of other people now also have that optic. I have had a Viper PST scope in hand and I do not believe it compares to the level of quality of the zSuper Sniper 1-4 HD.  As for "how do we trust your
opinion"  --   Rancid Coolaid has earned the respect of those of us who have been here a long time because his advise is consistently good.  You however have not even clearly  states what your intended use and weapon system is so you might start there.    


Please don't tell me to watch my step. I didn't say anything in anger or mean spirited. He may be one of the most respected people on here and that is fine. I have read a lot of what he has written and used it in my search. But that doesn't change the fact that the recommendation was made without seeing the other product. In my mind it decreases the value of the information if it is done with a one sided comparison. He basically said that even though I haven't seen the PST the SS is going to be better. Nobody can say that makes any sense and be taken seriously.
Also its nice to have friends that will stand up for eachother so I respect you for that. But im sure he is more than qualified to say somehing for himself if he felt like I was attacking him.
once again I am not trying to cause problems or be disrespectful. But I am positive that I am capable of standing up for what I believe is right.


Posted By: 308 Sav
Date Posted: April/07/2011 at 16:28
Let us take it down a bit. No need to get hot. Any of us.

Flanny, Rancid never said it was better than the Viper. Not once. All he said was he has use the SS and he liked it well enough that his money would be going to it no questions asked. Looking at his experience and knowledge all you can take from it is that he feels it will stand up to all expectations that a mil/mil 1 x 4 scope would need to do, and he needs too look no further to be satisfied with his choice for spending his money on it. You can take that however you want.

It will be hard to have someone that has done a side by side comparison of the two scopes since they are both fairly new to the market. There are not a lot of either out there to have the chance to do it, unless you are just wanting to spend a bunch of money to compare the two scopes. Maybe someone that owns a gun store might do it, or after they are out a while someone that owns one of them may find someone near him that owns the other. Until then maybe you will have to live with one sided touting of each scope.

The thing I get out of these one sided comparisons are there are two scopes that fill the need for different people. I doubt either one would just make you sorry you bought it.


-------------
Gerald Baker


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: April/07/2011 at 17:05
All is well.

I said the SS is worth the money, based on experience - both with SWFA and with the prototype.
The PST is a lower cost option, I have experience with with multiple vortex products and have been general pleased, but I don't think the PST us in the same league.

I understand your concerns for biase. Know that I was asked to evaluate the prototype because I could be unbiased and would give honest feedback.
I recommend based on personal experience and only when it deserves an endorsement.

Am happy to help however can.

-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: stickbow46
Date Posted: April/07/2011 at 17:39
Well said RC....Thanks for your input Excellent

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Pearls of Wisdom are Heard not Spoken


Posted By: Flanny
Date Posted: April/07/2011 at 20:50
OK now that I have stepped back and read the thread a few times I am going to try this again.

I really was not trying to be a richard, but maybe I got my panties in a bind dues to all of the overwhelming information and opinions as well as all the options.

RC...
I noticed that you didn't really recommend the SS rather just said that it what you would buy with your money, and that you didn't need to see the PST because the SS is everything that you need it to be and you know the reputation of the company. That's good enough for me, so if that ruffled your feathers I apologize. I do trust what you have to say on the matter and agree that if they asked you to review a product then you know what you are talking about.

Ufrnd...
Please see the the top part of this post. I really think I am just suffocating myself with too much too fast. I really do appreciate you standing up for your boy. It's a good quality to have and I would do the same thing for a friend that I have known a long time and respected. If I had an olive branch we could put it out on the range and shoot at it together.

Again, I am thankful for all of the help and information.

 



Posted By: Flanny
Date Posted: April/07/2011 at 20:59
So...

I just bought a Rock River AR-15. It is the Advance Tactical Hunter which has the heavier 18" barrel. I am looking to learn how to shoot anywhere from 100 to 600 yards.

Most people I have talked to said to go with the SS 3-9. Other suggestions are the Vortex 2.5-10 PST as well as the Nikon M-223 series. I am not sure if the BDC retical is a gimmick or if it is a good tool to start out with. The bonus for the Nikon is that it comes with a free mount this month and it is more in my price range. If I go with the SS or the PST I will still need to buy rings or a mount. Not to mention it is a bit more than I was looking to spend.

However if it is that much better then I can budget for the better buy. I really just want to get out and go shooting, but I think it would be a good idea to be able to aim. Having a new gun and not being able to shoot it is pure torture.

Thanks again for the patience and the help.


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: April/07/2011 at 21:22
Flanny  OT is usually a friendly place. You may not realize that I am one of the Moderators of the forum, and as such it is my responsibility to say something when a problem is occuring to try to keep this a helpful friendly place.  I greatly value Rancid Coolaids experience and his Service to Our Country in the Marine Corp having him here is a wonderful asset to this forum as he is very knowledgable.
Congratulations on the new Rock River I have several of their rifles.  Will you use this rifle for hunting or for primarily target practice from a bench rest or for some type of tactical application like moving and shooting at targets from multiple positions.


-------------

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: April/07/2011 at 21:27
http://swfa.com/SWFA-Precision-Optic-30mm-Mount-P48134.aspx">SWFA Precision Optic 30mm Mount http://swfa.com/SWFA-Precision-Optic-30mm-Mount-P48134.aspx - SWFA Precision Optic 30mm Mount
Stock # - SWFA201300
  • Low
  • Slightly Forward
$209.95
http://swfa.com/Bobro-Mounts-C3282.aspx - http://swfa.com/Bobro-Mounts-C3282.aspx   this is one of the BOBRO mounts with an SWFA marking on it and is a good quality mount. There are a lot of less expensive mounts out there but I have tried several of them and I would only go with what I consider the top three  BOBRO LaRue or GG&G  all cost about the same and all place the scope far enough forward to access the charging handle where less expensive mounts often do not.

-------------

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: Bitterroot Bulls
Date Posted: April/07/2011 at 21:37
Here ya go ...





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-Matt


Posted By: Flanny
Date Posted: April/07/2011 at 21:43
I would say that it will mostly be for target shooting, but at some point when I am more comfortable with the rifle and shooting in general I would like to get into learning tactical shooting. I am really new to this so I will want to learn everything eventually. You just never know when you will need to use the weapon for any situation.


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: April/07/2011 at 21:48
0 to 300 yds I really like a compact ACOG from Trijicon I have a 1.5x and a 3x.   I also have the Comp M4s and Comp M4 which are the U.S. Army close combat optic however I think a little magnification helps so I also run a fixed 6x Super Sniper at times all are shown in the photo. 
 
When you talk about shooting 600 yds you are talking about a whole different type of optic and I suggest minimum of a 3-9x42 with tactical knobs to dial in correction for the drop in trajectory of the bullet.
Also not all ammo is ideal for 600 yds with a .223 you need to be using 75 or 77 gr bullets and most 600 yd shooters shoot 80 gr but those will not feed in the magazine they are too long and are shot single shot which is a pain.  I tend to see the AR15 platform as a great ZERO to 300 yd light fast rifle and as such I prefer the compact ACOG and do not attempt to dial in correction because I am trying to hit a man size target and with a 200 yd zero I will be somewhere in the meat from 0 to 400 yds after that it gets tricky as does the wind.  I have shot open sights at 600 yds so a 1-4 can be used to do that  and one could dial in correction with the SS 1-4 HD but the image would not have much magnification so while hits are likely I would want at least 6x to shoot 600 yds.  Realizing 6x at 600 is like open sights at 100.  Similarly 9x at 600 yds would be like open sights at 75 yds, and 12x  at 600 yds would be like open sights at 50 yds. Double that to 24x at 600 yds would be like open sights at 25 yds.
 
If you want to shoot off a bench with a solid rest you can use a really powerful scope like one of the Sightron SIII scopes http://swfa.com/Sightron-6-24x50-SIII-30mm-Riflescope-P48419.aspx - http://swfa.com/Sightron-6-24x50-SIII-30mm-Riflescope-P48419.aspx
 
But the all around scope really is the 3-9x42 Super Sniper and I own two of them and suggest that it is hard to go wrong with that choice however it does not have illumination and if you hunt coyotes at night or move and shoot or hunt the illumination is very helpful and worth the additional expense.  The 1-4 Super Sniper is a very nice choice and while not ideal for 600 yds it could be used at that distance and would be ideal for very precise shots in the Zero to 400 yd range which is likely where you will spend most of your time.
 


-------------

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: April/07/2011 at 22:23
http://swfa.com/Trijicon-3x24-Compact-Acog-Rifle-Scope-P539.aspx">Trijicon 3x24 Compact Acog Rifle Scope http://swfa.com/images/trijicon_ta50r4_popup.jpg">Red Crosshair http://swfa.com/Trijicon-3x24-Compact-Acog-Rifle-Scope-P539.aspx - Trijicon 3x24 Compact Acog Rifle Scope
Stock # - TA50R4
  • Red Crosshair
  • Free Lens Cleaning Pen w/ Purchase
$945.95
This is the scope I use most of the time and for my use - Police Tactical it works well there is no open adjustable tactical turret to be out of adjustment there is no battery to fail it is tritium & fiber optic, this scope is ideal to enter a building and target bad guys while moving very quickly.
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-1-4x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P48373.aspx">SWFA SS 1-4x24 Tactical 30mm Riflescope http://swfa.com/images/ss_t_popup.jpg"> http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-1-4x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P48373.aspx - SWFA SS 1-4x24 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SSHD14X24TC
  • Matte
  • First Focal Plane Illuminated T (Post/Mil-Scale)
  • 30mm
  • Rear Focus
  • OK for .50 cal
  • .10 Mrad
  • HD Model
  • Capped Turrets
  • Submersible
  • Operating Temp. -5 - 160 Fahrenheit
  • 23 mils of total travel
$799.95
This scope with covered knobs would work very well for the same application and allow one to have finger adjustable knobs to dial in correction for even greater precision of carefully aimed shots if one had the time to do so.  For someone who just tinkers with it the open knobs are fine but I think I would want covered knobs on a tactical entry gun to prevent them from being adjusted by brushing against something.
 
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-3-9x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P41044.aspx">SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical Riflescope http://swfa.com/images/ss_mildot_popup.jpg">Mil-Dot http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-3-9x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P41044.aspx - SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical Riflescope
Stock # - SS39X42
  • Matte
  • First Focal Plane Mil-Dot
  • 30mm
  • OK for .50 cal
  • 0.1 MRAD
$599.95
This scope is an all around scope it is an absolute JEWEL it is well worth double what it costs.  At 3x it could be used for close range and at 9x it could be used for long range.
This is the SS 3-9 at 600 yds
The SS 3-9 has geared teeth inside the cap and one screw holds it on which is SO much better than a three hex nut system for making fine adjustments of the knob.


-------------

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: April/07/2011 at 22:52
The scope used here is a 6x42 leupold FX3 Competition Hunter and the rifle is a Kimber Montana. The video does debunk the idea that one had to have a bull barrel and do special break in prodiedures to hit long range targets. One does however have to have eihter open tactical or covered target knobs to dial in correction at long range and as you can see his balistic chart is taped to the stock.

-------------

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: April/11/2011 at 09:47
I don't endorse his 'break in" methodology, but it is a good point.

-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.



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