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Warranties compared for scope manufacturers

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Category: Scopes
Forum Name: Rifle Scopes
Forum Description: Centerfire long gun scopes
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Topic: Warranties compared for scope manufacturers
Posted By: WestOfPecos
Subject: Warranties compared for scope manufacturers
Date Posted: September/29/2010 at 15:25
After the discussion we had on the Swarovski warranty, I built a spreadsheet for myself that shows all warranties compared for the US. I thought I might as well share the data. My info may be out of date or incorrect, so if you find an error, please let me know, I will edit when facts are wrong. The companies whose names are not here - I just don't know enough about them. The global ratings are, of course, mine, and rate warranty, downgraded by lack of support if the company does not fully support the warranty in practice. They do NOT rate the quality of support itself, only the lack thereof when it impacts warranty service (edited for clarification).

Please note that the following information applies to scope optics and mechanicals, not to accessories, and not to scope electronics.

5-star warranties (corrected by support)
  • Leupold: lifetime, transferable. Easy to reach support, quick turnaround. Great online reputation for support.
  • Vortex: lifetime, transferable. Easy to reach support, quick turnaround. Great online reputation for support.
  • Sightron: lifetime, transferable. Easy to reach support, quick turnaround.
  • Burris: lifetime, transferable. Easy to reach support, quick turnaround.
  • Minox: lifetime, transferable, no questions asked. Easy to reach support, turnaround is fast and repairs are done in the US (scopes are assembled in the US also).
  • Zeiss: lifetime, transferable. Easy to reach support, quick turnaround for US repairs, slow for Euro repairs.
  • Hensoldt: lifetime, transferable., Easy to reach support, quick turnaround for (small) US repairs, fairly quick for Euro repairs.
  • Nightforce: lifetime, transferable. Easy to reach support, reasonable turnaround.
  • Redfield: lifetime, transferable. Easy to reach support, quick turnaround.

4-star warranties (corrected by support)
  • Nikon: lifetime, transferable. There are a lot of bad (and also good) stories about support.
  • IOR: lifetime, transferable. Easy to reach support, slow turnaround (Europe repairs). Opinions are divided on the quality of service.
  • Meopta: lifetime, transferable, but registration must be sent within 30 days of purchase. Right now Meopta CS in general waives the registration requirement even if scope was transferred. Easy to reach support, fast turnaround for US repairs/ in general fast replacement for Czech Republic repair.

3-star warranties (corrected by support)


  • Weaver: lifetime, not transferable. Easy to reach support, quick turnaround.
  • Trijicon: lifetime, non transferable. Easy to reach support, reasonable turnaround.
  • Schmidt & Bender, 10-year warranty, transferable. Easy to reach support, fast turnaround when US repairs (since Jan 2010), slow when Germany repairs.

2-star warranties (corrected by support)
  • Bushnell: lifetime, not transferable. Easy to reach support. Many mixed stories about the realities of Bushnell service.
  • Kahles: lifetime for "optical systems", 5 years labor/ 10 years parts for others, not transferable. Easy to reach support, slow turnarounds (Europe repairs).
  • Swarovski: lifetime for "optical systems", 5 years labor/ 10 years parts for others, not transferable. Easy to reach support, quick turnarounds (repairs now effected in the US). In practice, their warranty service has largely exceeded the terms of their warranty. Many positive stories about their support.
  • USO: lifetime, not transferable, does not cover dust in lenses. Warranty service requires original packaging and original receipt. Easy to reach support, fast turnaround (in the past 3 years). Some mentions of refusal to exchange irreparable scopes. Many positive stories about speed, quality and extent of support.

1-star warranties (corrected by support)
  • Steiner: 10-year warranty, non transferable. Easy to reach support, turnaround unknown.
  • March: 5-year warranty non transferable. Hard to reach support, slow turnaround (Asia repairs)

0-star warranties (corrected by support)
  • Falcon: no warranty in the US. Dealer provides dealer warranty if any. Typically dealers provide 5-year non-transferable warranty.
  • (waiting for you to send me some names:-)

Important Edit Note: there has been some mention of subjectivity. Therefore, I should be very clear on how I created my ratings (that's what I use on my spreadsheet, for my own use). There is NO subjectivity on the warranty section. There is ONLY subjectivity on the Downgrades, which may only remove 1 star, no more.
- 5 stars = lifetime, fully transferable warranty, covers all (except usual negligence, mistreatment etc.): only the best
- 4 stars = 5 stars minus a downgrade (see below for downgrades)
- 3 star = lifetime + non transferable, or transferable + non lifetime
- 2 star = lifetime warranty does not cover all systems, non transferable
- 1 star = warranty limited by a number of years, non transferable
- 0 star = really crappy warranty

Downgrades ONLY by 1 star to the scale above:
- if there are many stories of support problems
- or if there are restrictive clauses on the lifetime warranty

How I got the warranty info:
For most companies, I actually have a copy of the actual warranty document. For some, I do not have a copy (like IOR), but I described what retailers described as the warranty. If you have a recent copy of the document, and I am wrong about the data, simply post the data and I will correct it.

This is NOT evaluating service or quality but warranty:
This is focused on warranty, and SLIGHTLY corrected (by up to 1 star down ONLY) for significant service issues when servicing the warranty.

I am simply sharing my data, as a service to the community. If this is going to turn into an ugly thread, I'll simply delete the content. I am not looking for a contest - just sharing what took me a lot of time to research for my own use... I know it is very valuable to me, I am assuming others would like the information.

Link of interest: http://www.eagleoptics.com/customer-service/product-warranties/product-warranties - Eagle Optics warranty summaries across the industry primarily for binos/ spotting scopes. Their info is slightly outdated.

(1. edited for specific warranty information)
(2. added rating explanation)
(3. corrected USO rating)

(4. edited paragraph titles)
(5. updated Zeiss, Swarovski, Bushnell, USO entries)
(6. clarified further purpose of the spreadsheet)
(7. added S&B, Hensoldt, slightly updated 3* criterion)
(8. added Meopta)
(9. added Minox)
(11. added Falcon)



Replies:
Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: September/29/2010 at 15:49
Originally posted by WestOfPecos WestOfPecos wrote:

1-star warranties and support
  • USO: lifetime, not transferable, does not cover dust in lenses. Warranty service requires original packaging and original receipt. Easy to reach support, fast turnaround (in the past 3 years). Some mentions of refusal to exchange irreparable scopes.
 
Where did you get this information? 
 
I personally have owned a brand new, USO SN-3 that had debris inside the lens when I received it through a group buy on Snipers Hide. I sent it back to USO and the situation was resolved immediately, with no questions asked.
JW3 answered the phone when I called about it.  


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: September/29/2010 at 15:55
IOR gets a 4 star and USO a 1?? Laugh
Boy, I could run with this one, but I won't.  For now.....Big Grin
 
I think you'll find peoples CS experience with the various optics makers is going to be VERY, VERY subjective, to say the least.


Posted By: bugsNbows
Date Posted: September/29/2010 at 16:04
Great concept but I agree with Mark...very subjective indeed. 

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If we're not suppose to eat animals...how come they're made of meat?
               Anomymous


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: September/29/2010 at 16:06
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Originally posted by WestOfPecos WestOfPecos wrote:

1-star warranties and support
  • USO: lifetime, not transferable, does not cover dust in lenses. Warranty service requires original packaging and original receipt. Easy to reach support, fast turnaround (in the past 3 years). Some mentions of refusal to exchange irreparable scopes.
 
Where did you get this information? 
 
I personally have owned a brand new, USO SN-3 that had debris inside the lens when I received it through a group buy on Snipers Hide. I sent it back to USO and the situation was resolved immediately, with no questions asked.
JW3 answered the phone when I called about it.  

Hi Cheap trick -

I did not mean to get your temper up. This is where the info comes from:

- their warranty docs say exactly what is listed above. I quote:

"When this Custom Made Scope is presented to U.S. Optics, at its factory or Authorized Service Centers, by the original retail purchaser, in original packaging with the original purchase receipt. U.S. Optics will at its option repair product, replace components of product, or replace product with like product, available at the time of service. U.S. Optics will provide warranty service free of charge only if product is found to be defective in material or workmanship, if it has been purchased
directly from U.S. Optics, or, in some cases, our authorized dealers. This limited warranty does not include scratching of lenses**; dust on the glass reticle (see U.S.O. Catalog section "fogproofing and dustproofing") etc.."

- they have had great service for the past 3-4 years, as per online reports (before it was terrible). But I have also read about times when they did not replace a scope that they had not been able to repair. It is remotely possible that all the stories referred to the same incident. But there is one such incident reported on Opticstalk, about 2-3 years ago.

I don't have an agenda. If my facts are wrong - please correct me. I don't really care who rates first or second - I am only sharing my data.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: September/29/2010 at 16:10
This isn't going to be a pretty thead......... I can already tell.

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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: tman1965
Date Posted: September/29/2010 at 16:11
Get Your Popcorn Ready

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Sometimes my tongue outruns my brain and I say something I haven't thought of yet!


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: September/29/2010 at 16:19
Oh, I'm not mad at all. Carry on.
 


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: September/29/2010 at 16:21
Originally posted by WestOfPecos WestOfPecos wrote:

 But there is one such incident reported on Opticstalk, about 2-3 years ago.

 
Are you referring to Mike McDonalds USO experience? 


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: September/29/2010 at 16:25
Sorry - it took me a while to find it again. Yes, Mike McD. Similar stories have shown up on other forums in the past few years - but it could have been Mike under a different handle there, or other people talking abt it.



Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: September/29/2010 at 16:32
I just added a couple of paragraphs in the original post to explain how I rated warranties.

I am glad to share what I found, but,  if it creates too much turmoil, as I am not looking for grief or disagreements, I'll delete out the content of the original post.

My goal for the spreadhseet I created was to be able to quickly compare, at a glance, how manufacturers' warranties compare, and if some corrections are needed due to practices that cheapen the warranty. It helps me compare offerings. I have no brand loyalty to uphold. I have no agenda. I am simply gathering facts and putting them together. All the ratings come directly from the warranty language, except for a possible 1-star downgrade for service practices that lower the value of the warranty in my eyes.


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: September/29/2010 at 16:36
Originally posted by WestOfPecos WestOfPecos wrote:

Sorry - it took me a while to find it again. Yes, Mike McD. Similar stories have shown up on other forums in the past few years - but it could have been Mike under a different handle there, or other people talking abt it.

Yeah, Mr. Mike had a less than optimal experience with USO, as I recall. My experience was terrific, others have had negative things to say about USO.
 
Some have had a stellar experience with IOR and I was so mad at "Val" I wanted to drive to Colorado and beat him with the scope I bought. Hence my smart ass comment earlier.  Wink   
 
I JUST had a slightly negative experience with a well known weapons accessories manufacturer, who shall remain nameless, but others have raved about them. Good days, bad days. Chocolate, vanilla. You know what I mean.   
 


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: September/29/2010 at 18:09
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Yeah, Mr. Mike had a less than optimal experience with USO, as I recall. My experience was terrific, others have had negative things to say about USO.
 
Some have had a stellar experience with IOR and I was so mad at "Val" I wanted to drive to Colorado and beat him with the scope I bought. Hence my smart ass comment earlier.  Wink   
 
I JUST had a slightly negative experience with a well known weapons accessories manufacturer, who shall remain nameless, but others have raved about them. Good days, bad days. Chocolate, vanilla. You know what I mean.   
 

OK my turn to OOps - I mislabeled USO with the wrong label. Per the criteria, it should have been 3* less 1* downgrade for warranty limitations, in the same way as IOR was 5* less 1* downgrade for slow repairs... I am amending the form to show USO at 2*... Sorry:-)


Posted By: tjtjwdad
Date Posted: September/29/2010 at 18:29
I don't see how Zeiss can have quick turn arounds when they too have to send the scope back to Europe.  In one instance for me I was quoted 6-weeks, minimum.
 
It's a shame Swarovski is the way they are non-transferable warranty (unless its thru an authorized dealer).  Wonder why (gray market, keeping their distributors happy, who knows...)?
 
Jim


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: September/29/2010 at 18:44
Originally posted by tjtjwdad tjtjwdad wrote:

I don't see how Zeiss can have quick turn arounds when they too have to send the scope back to Europe.  In one instance for me I was quoted 6-weeks, minimum.
 
It's a shame Swarovski is the way they are non-transferable warranty (unless its thru an authorized dealer).  Wonder why (gray market, keeping their distributors happy, who knows...)?
 
Jim

Zeiss: I could be wrong. I read somewhere that they are now doing their warranty work in the US, and that it dramatically shortened the waiting time. Maybe wrong info? If so Zeiss should be downgraded. Does anybody have recent info on this?

Swarovski: oh so true:( If their warranty was better I would already have pulled the trigger. I was so close to buying a Z6i last week. But, after checking the warranty, I stepped back to think it through a bit longer. This is actually what caused me to put the spreadsheet together.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: September/29/2010 at 21:16
Swaro does not send their scopes back to Austria for repairs for US customers.  They are done in their Cranston, RI facility, and their turnaround is pretty fast.

I've heard multiple troubling stories about Nikon's CS.  In contrast, Swaro has a proven track record of treating their customers very well and taking care of any problems quickly and without questions or conditions, regardless of what their warranty says.

A buddy of mine would strongly disagree with Bushnell being placed so high.  He ended up sending the same trail cam back 3 times because it wouldn't work -- after they supposedly "repaired" it.  They made him pay for shipping both ways -- for repairing their brand new, defective product.  Bushnell doesn't actually manufacture anything; they outsource all manufacturing and put their name on the product.  In my opinion, based on no shortage of evidence, I believe Bushnell has become so large and diverse that providing good customer service has crept lower on their priority list.

Many of the Euro optics have a shorter warranty period because of the European laws limiting warranty periods.

Warranties are only as good as the companies backing them.  If a company doesn't have a strong customer service philosophy to begin with, the warranty terms don't mean a whole lot.




-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: September/29/2010 at 21:18
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Swaro does not send their scopes back to Austria for repairs for US customers.  They are done in their Cranston, RI facility, and their turnaround is pretty fast.

I've heard multiple troubling stories about Nikon's CS.  In contrast, Swaro has a proven track record of treating their customers very well and taking care of any problems quickly and without questions or conditions, regardless of what their warranty says.

A buddy of mine would strongly disagree with Bushnell being placed so high.  He ended up sending the same trail cam back 3 times because it wouldn't work -- after they supposedly "repaired" it.  They made him pay for shipping both ways -- for repairing their brand new, defective product.  Bushnell doesn't actually manufacture anything; they outsource all manufacturing and put their name on the product.  In my opinion, based on no shortage of evidence, I believe Bushnell has become so large and diverse that providing good customer service has crept lower on their priority list.

Many of the Euro optics have a shorter warranty period because of the European laws limiting warranty periods.

Warranties are only as good as the companies backing them.  If a company doesn't have a strong customer service philosophy to begin with, the warranty terms don't mean a whole lot.



Excellent
here's the pitch, swing and its a deep drive to straight center field, and its gone!!!! a grand slam home run.





-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: helo18
Date Posted: September/29/2010 at 21:45
What are you defining as a quick turnaround, and what percentage of customers have to fall in the category to be considered quick?

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To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

GEORGE WASHINGTON


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: September/30/2010 at 00:34
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Swaro does not send their scopes back to Austria for repairs for US customers.  They are done in their Cranston, RI facility, and their turnaround is pretty fast.

I've heard multiple troubling stories about Nikon's CS.  In contrast, Swaro has a proven track record of treating their customers very well and taking care of any problems quickly and without questions or conditions, regardless of what their warranty says.

A buddy of mine would strongly disagree with Bushnell being placed so high.  He ended up sending the same trail cam back 3 times because it wouldn't work -- after they supposedly "repaired" it.  They made him pay for shipping both ways -- for repairing their brand new, defective product.  Bushnell doesn't actually manufacture anything; they outsource all manufacturing and put their name on the product.  In my opinion, based on no shortage of evidence, I believe Bushnell has become so large and diverse that providing good customer service has crept lower on their priority list.

Many of the Euro optics have a shorter warranty period because of the European laws limiting warranty periods.

Warranties are only as good as the companies backing them.  If a company doesn't have a strong customer service philosophy to begin with, the warranty terms don't mean a whole lot.



I had already read a lot of mixed feedback on Bushnell - so, Ted, based on the assumption that you feel there is "no shortage of evidence", I am downgrading Bushnell (-1 star).

Swarovski: I agree with you on excellent CS from them. I will add a positive comment. I will also remove the slow turnaround comment, snce they are now processing warranty returns in the US.

Euro optics: their US operations are not subject to European law - it is their choice only. Btw, these laws show how much industry influences consumer legislation, in a really bad way, in many countries.

I agree with you abt the fact that the practice of warranty service must be good too. But I do not agree that the warranty content does not matter. It creates a legal obligation. Both warranty doc and practice need to be good:-) Having seen it from the inside, I can guarantee that a good warranty pushes a CS group hard in a good direction every day. The matrix is:
- Great CS group/ practices + Great warranty = superlative support
- Great CS group/ practices + Poor warranty = good support today (maybe not tomorrow)
- Poor CS Group/practices + Great warranty = decent to good support eventually
- Poor CS Group/ practices + Poor warranty = definitely don't buy


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: September/30/2010 at 00:45
Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

What are you defining as a quick turnaround, and what percentage of customers have to fall in the category to be considered quick?

Helo: I call quick turnaround 10 days to 4 weeks, depending upon gravity of problem. Imho, for service to be called quick, you have to have the very large majority of support cases resolved quickly as defined above.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: September/30/2010 at 07:23
Originally posted by WestOfPecos WestOfPecos wrote:

  But I do not agree that the warranty content does not matter. It creates a legal obligation. Both warranty doc and practice need to be good:-)


I'm not at all suggesting that warranty content doesn't matter.  I'm saying that product quality and the company's actual demonstrated practices matter more.  Some of those with excellent warranty terms don't have the product quality to match their warranty, or good customer service in practice.  If you buy a high quality product, you are less likely to need a warranty, and just because a company says their product is covered for life doesn't mean they do a good job of service, will actually repair things to the customer's satisfaction, or won't give you the runaround when you are trying to get something repaired.  Or, they make the warranty repair process a hassle. 

I would much rather buy from a company who has proven to demonstrate great CS than one who merely says they do, but their practices don't match their rhetoric.  Sure, it's best to have both great customer service and a great warranty, like Leupold and Vortex, but I would much rather deal with a company with a proven track record of great service and a mediocre warranty than one with a great warranty and mediocre service.  I feel like I can reason with the former.

Another example... ask around and do some searching on Burris and Swarovski and then tell me which one treats their customers better.  Then, tell me if they are in the correct order on your list. 




-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: September/30/2010 at 07:25
What about SWFA's SS warranty?  Chris doesn't really list one but everyone knows if something is wrong he replaces it.   nothing written down but Its a 10-star warranty in my eyes!  And I know i won't have to use it either.Big Grin

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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: saitotiktmdog
Date Posted: September/30/2010 at 07:49
Bushnell fixed my banner for me. Fairly quick turn around. THis is the only experience I have had with bushnell cs. The only complaint I have is that they claimed the scope broke due to improper mounting, but I think it was due to not being able to withstance the recoil of the gun. It worked for a while then crapped out. From taking apart my eurolux scope, and taking the lenses off of two simmons, I dont see any reall way that mounting a scope would cause it to break premature after seeing how the internal workings are. They are much simpler than I had thought. ist basically a smaller tube inside the larger tube with a spring and the two adjusters pusing against that tube in a way that will angle the tube in the x and y axis. the other end is fixed with a spring washer and lock ring that holds it steady but allows for adjustment movement.


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: September/30/2010 at 11:22
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:


Another example... ask around and do some searching on Burris and Swarovski and then tell me which one treats their customers better.  Then, tell me if they are in the correct order on your list. 

Ted: for clarification, they are in the correct order:-) This is why - my spreadsheet is evaluating the warranty, slightly corrected by the service, if the service did not properly implement the warranty. I tried to define that as clearly as possible in the original post. Burris has a lifetime transferable warranty, and implements it in practice. Swarovski doesn't have a warranty that is lifetime on the whole scope, and the warranty they have is not transferable. You are discussing Swarovski's service, which is top notch - nobody is denying that. But this is not what I am evaluating. I am evaluating their warranty, which is wanting.

I do understand that you put service quality ahead of warranty quality. If I had to make the choice I would probably do the same. But I don't want to have to make that choice. I would like a good warranty and good service. I don't really want to sacrifice the warranty - my choice. As SVT was writing, Vanilla, Chocolate... :-) This is why I put this spreadsheet together for my own reference.

I truly don't mean to pick an argument - just sharing facts. I have learned a lot from your many posts on OT - they are always cogent and dense with information. I am not looking forward to giving the impression that I disagree with you - and, in fact, I actually agree with 95% of what you wrote in all these posts. I also don't want to leave the wrong impression on the subject at hand. I do know about warranties, their implementation, and the problems around them, and I certainly feel that my point of view on them is as good as the next man if not better:-)

Btw, Burris, from what I know, would also rank high. I have read very few complaints abt them, and the people who write about hem typically say good things abt their service from what I have read. Anecdotally, I actually have some Burris gear, and my interactions with Burris CS have always been outstanding. If they always treat their customers like they treated me they have first class service.


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: September/30/2010 at 11:29
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

What about SWFA's SS warranty?  Chris doesn't really list one but everyone knows if something is wrong he replaces it.   nothing written down but Its a 10-star warranty in my eyes!  And I know i won't have to use it either.Big Grin

I could not find a written warranty, although I am sure there is one somewhere. But I would only publish a rating if it rates really high, it is their site after all:-) I know their service is really good.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: September/30/2010 at 11:32
For USO, they have always been very, very helpful, even doing things not covered under the written warranty.  They rank high in my evaluation.

No Hensoldt?

No S&B? 
I'll watch this thread with interest.  Personal experiences play a huge part in the evaluation.  if basing this on documentation, it ain't real-world.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: September/30/2010 at 12:18
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:


No Hensoldt?
No S&B? 

Just added them for your viewing pleasure:-)

From what I gathered/ found out:
- Hensoldt is NOT serviced through Zeiss, but has its own service channel. They have a small warranty repair center in the US where they can deal with very small stuff, the rest goes to Germany. The round trip to Germany only takes 2-3 weeks generally. Very few people have posted on Hensoldt service issues yet, but so far it's a clean track record.

- Schmidt & Bender: the 10 year warranty is really 10 years and no longer, but they guarantee parts availability for 30 years. After 10 years you pay for labor, and, in general you pay for parts, but they occasionally make exceptions. They are really good about repairing accidental damage (as opposed to manufacturing defects), but, in general, if it is glass that is damaged accidentally, they will really charge for the glass. Note that S&B is not lifetime, but is transferable, i.e. they don't adapt perfectly to my rating scale.


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: September/30/2010 at 19:21
OK - since everybody is wanting to discuss warranty service on top of the original topic of warranty itself, I will also add a section to rate the quality of the warranty service itself. But - that is truly subjective, so I am not quite sure how to attack it. I will think abt it for a day or so to see if I can think of something. Please let me know your thoughts.


Posted By: Bboy623
Date Posted: September/30/2010 at 20:22
No Vortex Viper?????? ...in my ESPN voice....Com on Man!!---Bboy623



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I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6!


Posted By: Stringer
Date Posted: September/30/2010 at 20:36
No Meopta?


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: September/30/2010 at 22:07
Originally posted by Bboy623 Bboy623 wrote:

No Vortex Viper?????? ...in my ESPN voice....Com on Man!!---Bboy623


Vortex is there - you missed the line:-)


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: September/30/2010 at 22:43
Originally posted by Stringer Stringer wrote:

No Meopta?

Added Meopta:-)

Meopta has a lifetime transferrab le warranty, but the warranty specifically requires that registration be sent with 30 days, or there is no warranty: another pitiful legal trick to reduce warranty costs. But - this is so stupid and would certainly make the brand fail if they applied it, as they would get very T'd off users - so CS right now waives the registration requirement even if the scope was transferred. Meopta has a repair center in the US, which provides fast turnaround. It appears that, in general, when repairs need to be sent to the Czech Republic, they issues quick replacements. Few people post about Meopta warranty experiences, but what can be found is generally very good to outstanding.

However, beware - if anything changes in the company, Meopta's waiving the registration requirement could quickly be a thing of the past, even if you have taken advantage of that warranty before.


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: October/20/2010 at 09:53
Just added Minox.

They have an excellent lifetime, transferable, no-questions-asked warranty. They are easy to reach, their turnaround is good, and they do warranty repair in the US. They seem to be doing everything right, and I am very impressed.


Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: October/20/2010 at 11:31
Swarovski: (repairs now effected in the US).

Not sure what you mean by this? They been repairing their stuff here at SONA (USA) for years now.


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“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear


Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: October/20/2010 at 12:16
Leupold: lifetime, transferable. Easy to reach support, quick turnaround. Great online reputation for support.

No questions asked lifetime transferable only on their gold ring products. Their tactical scope warranty is the same as gold ring as long as it's for recreational use only (hunting, punching paper, etc.), electronics is two year warranty, and green rings products are non-transferable lifetime warranty.


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“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: October/20/2010 at 15:45
Originally posted by mike650 mike650 wrote:

Leupold: lifetime, transferable. Easy to reach support, quick turnaround. Great online reputation for support.

No questions asked lifetime transferable only on their gold ring products. Their tactical scope warranty is the same as gold ring as long as it's for recreational use only (hunting, punching paper, etc.), electronics is two year warranty, and green rings products are non-transferable lifetime warranty.

Hi Mike:
all of their scopes are gold ring products, with the exception of the Mark 4 line, which is also covered by the same warranty as long as it is not used in combat. When I raised the question w/ Leupold, they confirmed to me that the same warranty would cover personal Mark 4s used by LEOs.

You are correct abt the electronics. Most if not all manufacturers have limited coverage for electronics. I am still researching if there are some manufacturers for which electronics is not excluded from their general scope warranties. This thread does not cover electronics:
Originally posted by WestOfPecos WestOfPecos wrote:

Please note that the following information applies to scope optics and mechanicals, not to accessories, and not to scope electronics.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: October/20/2010 at 15:53
Originally posted by WestOfPecos WestOfPecos wrote:

Originally posted by Stringer Stringer wrote:

No Meopta?

Added Meopta:-)

Meopta has a lifetime transferrab le warranty, but the warranty specifically requires that registration be sent with 30 days, or there is no warranty: another pitiful legal trick to reduce warranty costs. But - this is so stupid and would certainly make the brand fail if they applied it, as they would get very T'd off users - so CS right now waives the registration requirement even if the scope was transferred. Meopta has a repair center in the US, which provides fast turnaround. It appears that, in general, when repairs need to be sent to the Czech Republic, they issues quick replacements. Few people post about Meopta warranty experiences, but what can be found is generally very good to outstanding.

However, beware - if anything changes in the company, Meopta's waiving the registration requirement could quickly be a thing of the past, even if you have taken advantage of that warranty before.


Meopta honored my warranty no questions asked and I did not send in a card at all.  I had a new scope in my hands in about a week. 


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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: October/20/2010 at 16:42
Swaro honored my SLC binos warranty without a receipt, warranty card or registration as well. Repairs/upgrades were done in the USA, turn around time was about two weeks (west coast to east coast and back). The only cost to me was shipping. 

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“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear


Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: October/20/2010 at 16:50
Originally posted by WestOfPecos WestOfPecos wrote:

Originally posted by mike650 mike650 wrote:

Leupold: lifetime, transferable. Easy to reach support, quick turnaround. Great online reputation for support.

No questions asked lifetime transferable only on their gold ring products. Their tactical scope warranty is the same as gold ring as long as it's for recreational use only (hunting, punching paper, etc.), electronics is two year warranty, and green rings products are non-transferable lifetime warranty.

Hi Mike:
all of their scopes are gold ring products, with the exception of the Mark 4 line, which is also covered by the same warranty as long as it is not used in combat. When I raised the question w/ Leupold, they confirmed to me that the same warranty would cover personal Mark 4s used by LEOs.

You are correct abt the electronics. Most if not all manufacturers have limited coverage for electronics. I am still researching if there are some manufacturers for which electronics is not excluded from their general scope warranties. This thread does not cover electronics:


I was told slightly different info recently from Leupold CS in regards to their tactical scopes and that it wasn't just combat that effected how the warranty would be honored. If your right about LEO personally owned tactical scopes that's cool, it should be!!  Thunbs Up


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“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear


Posted By: Prieto9000
Date Posted: October/20/2010 at 18:15
I think Vortex is also no questions asked. Am I right??


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: October/20/2010 at 21:55
Originally posted by mike650 mike650 wrote:

Originally posted by WestOfPecos WestOfPecos wrote:


all of their scopes are gold ring products, with the exception of the Mark 4 line, which is also covered by the same warranty as long as it is not used in combat. When I raised the question w/ Leupold, they confirmed to me that the same warranty would cover personal Mark 4s used by LEOs.


I was told slightly different info recently from Leupold CS in regards to their tactical scopes and that it wasn't just combat that effected how the warranty would be honored. If your right about LEO personally owned tactical scopes that's cool, it should be!!  Thunbs Up

You know, I am very leery of anything that is not in writing:-) I am actually collaborating on a article that surveys all scope warranties right now, so I asked Leupold to send me the official mark 4 warranty in writing. I should get the answer in a couple of days. This way we will be able to establish that for sure one way or another... I think they should honor the warranty for private ownership by LEOs too, that is why I specifically raised that question with them. Of course, I totally understand why they can't have the same warranty that they have for us with their military contracts.

I will update this thread with the official written answer when I get it:-)


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: October/22/2010 at 10:29
Originally posted by Prieto9000 Prieto9000 wrote:

I think Vortex is also no questions asked. Am I right??

Prieto - sorry for not answering earlier - I just missed your post. Yes, the Vortex warranty is a no-questions-asked warranty, and pretty much the best there is. Their CS is excellent, and they are prompt in returning warranty work. The only thing you can fault them for is that they are not as "established" as the other firms in the business. Of course, every year that passes by, they get more established:-)


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: October/22/2010 at 10:53
Vortex has been in the optics business since 86.  I would say that is pretty established.  

-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: dhdoyle
Date Posted: October/22/2010 at 11:55
Ya know, this discussion about warranty reminds me of shopping for an appliance. I did my research, and picked a product. The clerk tried to sell me an extended warranty. I told him that I had chosen that brand name because of its reliable reputation. Then I told him that I didn't expect than brand name to even need the basic warranty. Then I asked him, "You're trying to sell me an extended warranty. Do you know something I don't? Is this brand reliable or not?" He called the manager.Shocked

Frankly, I buy optics based on the likelyhood that I'll never need the warranty. If the product rarely fails, then my experience is that the company will stand behind it regardless of the paperwork.

The reverse gets you into a situation like WOTAC optics. (Yeah, I'll name them.) You can't deny that their customer service is great. Any thread in any forum will bring out piles of folks that will testify how great Matt is and how happy he was to replace a defective scope. However, that sheer volume of happy experiences implies to me that Wonders has a pretty high (amazingly high) return rate. If that's the case, I'm clearly not in his market demographics...

...and I tend to ignore warranty details when I buy stuff.



Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: October/22/2010 at 12:29
Originally posted by dhdoyle dhdoyle wrote:



...and I tend to ignore warranty details when I buy stuff.



Not me... I don't do all my shopping based on warranty, usually certain stuff that I abuse out in the field.

Example:

I have some Northface gear (tents, sleeping bags, jackets, etc.) with lifetime warranties that if something happens it gets repaired or replaced with minimal or no cost to me. I've sent in two older sleeping bags for repair and received two new ones for free, one gore-tex jacket and gore-tex bib (I use in fishing tournaments) that I received repaired jacket and new bibs for free.

Optics, same thing.






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“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear


Posted By: csacpt
Date Posted: October/22/2010 at 21:26
Bushnell is transferable, on the Elite line anyway.
 
"We are so proud of our Bushnell ELITE Riflescopes that their materials and workmanship are warranted to be free of defects for the life of the ELITE Riflescope*. The warranty is available to any owner of the ELITE Riflescope. No receipt or warranty card is required. This warranty does not cover damages caused by misuse or improper handling, installation or maintenance of the riflescope.

At our option, we will repair or replace any defective ELITE Riflescope, which shall be your sole remedy under this warranty. In no event shall we be liable for transportation costs to us, costs of removal or reinstallation of the riflescope, or incidental or consequential damages. Some states do not allow the exclusion of limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you."

How that translates into actual service I can't say, since I've never had to use it.


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Better to die on your feet than live on your knees! "Ready and Forward"


M14 - Forged in Freedom - Proven in Battle


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: October/24/2010 at 19:36
Originally posted by csacpt csacpt wrote:

Bushnell is transferable, on the Elite line anyway.
 

Only for the Elite line, nothing else, and only for the FIRST year:

US WARRANTY

Since 1984, the majority of our Bushnell sports optics products have been covered by a Limited Lifetime Warranty. Bushnell Outdoor Products guarantees those products to be free of defects in materials and workmanship for the lifetime of the original owner.

The exceptions (primarily for electronic products) are as follows:

  • Bushnell Laser Rangefinders
  • Bushnell ImageView Binoculars & Spotting Scopes
  • Bushnell Trail Cameras
  • Bushnell Night Vision
  • Bushnell Radar Speed Guns
  • Bushnell HOLOsight
  • Bushnell LED Flashlights
  • Bushnell Red Dot Riflescopes
  • Bushnell NorthStar Telescope Electronics
  • Bushnell Falcon & Pacifica Binoculars
  • Bushnell NextView Binoculars
  • Bushnell Weather Forecasters
  • Bushnell GPS (BackTrack, Onix, Golf)
  • Two Year Warranty
  • Two Year Warranty
  • Two Year Warranty
  • Two Year Warranty
  • Two Year Warranty
  • Two Year Warranty
  • Two Year Warranty
  • Two Year Warranty
  • Two Year Warranty
  • Two Year Warranty
  • One Year Warranty
  • One Year Warranty
  • One Year Warranty
"No Questions Asked One Year Warranty ELITE Replacement Policy"
(This offer is limited to one original purchase refund per address. For additional information about this offer, please contact Customer Service)


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: October/24/2010 at 19:40
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Vortex has been in the optics business since 86.  I would say that is pretty established.  

They were only a retail store (Eagle Optics?) until the mid 2000s,  I think they started Vortex in 2004 or thereabouts. Or am I wrong?  So, as an OEM Brand, they only have half a dozen years behind them.


Posted By: tjtjwdad
Date Posted: October/25/2010 at 15:12
Folks,
 
I just got off the horn with Swarovski Optik and they CS rep tells me that their lifetime warranty will become transferable. 
 
Jim


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: October/26/2010 at 14:43
Originally posted by tjtjwdad tjtjwdad wrote:

CS rep tells me that their lifetime warranty will become transferable. 

Jim -  great news! That would make a huge difference if they do.


Posted By: tjtjwdad
Date Posted: October/26/2010 at 22:43
Originally posted by WestOfPecos WestOfPecos wrote:

Originally posted by tjtjwdad tjtjwdad wrote:

CS rep tells me that their lifetime warranty will become transferable. 

Jim -  great news! That would make a huge difference if they do.
Like you, I'd rather see it in writting though.  But, they would be foolish not to do it.


Posted By: amdenis
Date Posted: June/21/2013 at 10:48
This a great tool you put together, and it could be very useful in helping people make purchase decisions, since warranties are an important factor for many.
With that said, I did my own research as I am about to purchase a scope in the $2-3K range, and I had checked on the websites of the various ones I am looking at (US Optics, Zeiss, Hensoldt, Schmidt and Bender, Vortex, Premier Reticles and Leupold).   While many of them have decent warranties, and some may very well go even above and beyond their warranties, I only found one of those that actually have a lifetime warranty on everything, which was Vortex. I assume that they are trying to make a name for themselves and/or allay fears that some like me may have about them being sort of the new, less proven kid on the block. In any event, somebody really should emend the good work you started.
For example:
Leupold: limits electronic like illum reticles to 1 or 2 years, depending on scope, and has scope specific limitations on everything else;
Schmidt & Bender limits to 2 years, and only makes reference to it being for the original buyer;
Burris: has either a limited 1, 3 or 5 year, a limited to original owner "Lifetime" (which is kind of confusing) or a "Forever" transferable warantee, where which of those waranrries ou get depends on the scope or related item;
Zeiss and Hensold have a transferrable, limited warrantee which requires you to register within 60 days of purchase to get a 5 year no fault warantee that covers field damage and such.
Swarovski has limitations on any scope with an illuminated reticle, as the warranty for the whole scope reverts to the European warranty: 5 year labor, 10 years parts and materials:, and the illuminated reticle itself is covered for 2 years.

One of the factors that has me leaning towards the Vortex (specifically the Razor HD 5-20 mil/mil with 10 Mil/rev turrets) is that there are not only no time, parts or any other restictions, but that they include a fully transferrable, no-fault, no questions asked, no registration or proof of purchase required warranty where lifetime means forever (as it should) not just the lifetime of the original buyer. Also, they apply this to all scopes and related products, not just some. Unlike any other I have found, the specifically cover misuse, abuse and other things that can often happen given enough time. This actually worried me a bit at first, since I wondered if they were trying to compensate for an actual or perceived lack of quality or durability. I researched this, and it appears that their scopes are very well received by owners in terms of user satisfaction related to quality and lack of problems. Also, I have read from many owners online who did dumb, abusive, absent-minded or related things to damage or destroy their scopes, who got them replaced typically in less than a week (often 2 days from when Vortex received it). I also read about various accounts of people who lost things like the scope cover, the ARD or other things, who also got a free, fast replacement, which obviously goes above and beyond their warranty, or any other waranty I know of.

Like I said, I believe based on what I have heard and read that many of these other companies will go above and beyond what they explicitly state in their waranties, but I believe that people should be aware of how unique and amazing Vortex's warranty and service has been, since not only should they be rewarded for it, but maybe (just maybe) it will lead some of these other top scope makers do the same.

In any event, maybe like 7 star hotels, you need to add another star category for Vortex and its warranty.


Posted By: coyote95
Date Posted: June/21/2013 at 11:48
+1 on Vortex. They have one of the best in the business !

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"Life is like riding a bicycle . To keep balance you must keep moving" Albert Einstein


Posted By: tpcollins
Date Posted: June/21/2013 at 11:50
Originally posted by WestOfPecos WestOfPecos wrote:

Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

What about SWFA's SS warranty?  Chris doesn't really list one but everyone knows if something is wrong he replaces it.   nothing written down but Its a 10-star warranty in my eyes!  And I know i won't have to use it either.Big Grin

I could not find a written warranty, although I am sure there is one somewhere. But I would only publish a rating if it rates really high, it is their site after all:-) I know their service is really good.


I was wondering the same thing. 


Posted By: tpcollins
Date Posted: June/24/2013 at 12:43
Anyone ever find anything on SWFA?


Posted By: amdenis
Date Posted: June/24/2013 at 16:15
Related to Super Sniper scopes from SWFA, it appears that they do not have any info related to their warranty posted on their site or elsewhere, so the only thing I could find is a scan somebody did of an SS waranty. I am not sure if it is the current SS Waranty being offerd, nor if it applies to all of their scopes, but what I found was that they offer a Limited, Lifetime warantee, which applies to any defects or problems with the scope. It does not define "lifetime" (I.e. scope's or the original purchaser), but often that means that it is the scope/company's lifetime, unless otherwise stated.   It does not cover field, incidental, usage/misuse or other such things that most others do not cover either (other than Vortex, who a rep at shot show this year said that they have gotten some in that "looked like they were used for hammers or something", which they replaced free of charge).

Maybe someone out there has an SS Scope and can verify this, and emend as necessary?

Anyway, it seems to be an average type of warranty from what I could scavenge, as they were the only company I have not been able to readily find their product warranties for online. It is possible that I may have missed it, but I did some fairly extensive searching.


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: June/24/2013 at 23:13
Super Sniper scopes are made to SWFA specs and they do stand behind the product.  I do not think that the warranty would cover if one dropped it down the side of a mountain like Vortex warranty would but if there is some defect in workmanship or some failure of the optic to work properly
SWFA Customer Service does a good job of addressing the problem. On some type repairs that can be made I believe they have an arrangement with Bushnell to do certain things. I know that they have replaced a couple with new scopes if there was truely something defective.  For the most part the SS scopes are very sturdy they were designed for military use and I have not had problems with any that I have owned.  I own several and would gladly buy more.


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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: tpcollins
Date Posted: June/25/2013 at 07:23
After stumbling around the internet I did find a review link from super sniper.com. This link indicates as a "Current SWFA SS scopes have a lifetime warranty performed by Bushnell on our behalf". So I understand this as a "lifetime, not a limited lifetime".

http://swfa-ss.com/Reviews/9-2.htm


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: June/25/2013 at 10:06
Saying so may be unnecessary, but...

This is a 3 year old thread, and the initial information was not entirely accurate 3 years ago - less so now.

The effort is commendable, but the result should not be used as a primary deciding point.

Carry on.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: avery
Date Posted: July/03/2013 at 19:06
For any Canadian's out there I can only warn you if you have a warranty issue with a Zeiss scope and you need to send it out be prepared to wait 3 months for its return. This was my experience. The scopes need to be sent to the US for repair but first needs to be sent to Gentec International in Markham, Ontario who will then send over the border. It probably dose not help that I live in norther British Columbia. I had the impression when i purchased the scope it was over the counter warranty but I was mistaken. Lucky my issue was just back specks that i could see through the scope so it didn't affect the functionality and i was able to put up with it and send it out with enough time to have it back for hunting season. 


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: September/01/2013 at 14:51
I'll try to update the original post over the next few weeks as I get time to do so.


Posted By: Losthwy
Date Posted: December/04/2013 at 10:09
I found this post using Google search. Warranties are a factor for my purchases which is why I was searching. Well done.


Posted By: Spike_Goldman
Date Posted: December/21/2013 at 10:07
SWFA may have good customer service on the phone, but I have found they don't answer their emails.  I don't have time during their business hours to sit on the phone.  I have not been impressed so far.


Posted By: Sparky
Date Posted: December/21/2013 at 16:36
I think you are one of the very few.


Posted By: bearguide
Date Posted: December/22/2013 at 07:13
Redfield's warranty is not lifetime transferable. It only applies to the original purchaser.

http://www.redfield.com/support/


Posted By: Cold Trigger Finger
Date Posted: December/22/2013 at 12:32
Chris was great about answering my email. ?s and I haven't even bought a scope from SWFA yet.
My question was a tricky one. One of the first things I look for in a scope is what is its lowest temperature it will operate at.
That eliminates most scopes immediately. The SS scopes are garrenteed to work down to-50°F .
I've done and do lots of shooting down to-45° so I wanted to know for sure.
Only NightForce had a better or lower temp rating. NF tests their scopes to-80°F . That is truly impressive. Anyone that hasn't been out and about in those temps may not understand howm metal and glass and rubber are affected by that kind of cold.

But I would like to have a warranted document to read. But it won't keep from getting as many SS scopes as I can afford.

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You are being watched.
If it can't be grown, It's gotta be mined



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