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What does it take to make the perfect rimfire scop

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Category: Scopes
Forum Name: Rimfire / Airgun
Forum Description: Rimfire and airgun scopes
URL: http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=25336
Printed Date: December/17/2017 at 19:29


Topic: What does it take to make the perfect rimfire scop
Posted By: bman940
Subject: What does it take to make the perfect rimfire scop
Date Posted: September/20/2010 at 23:55
If you build a rimfire scope from the ground up, what would you want to o see? 
Inquiring minds want to know....


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Bart

Nikon Pro Staff

www.nikonhunting.com



Replies:
Posted By: 3_tens
Date Posted: September/21/2010 at 00:09
What phase of rimfire shooting is this perfect scope to be used? Hunting, Target, long range practice. Daylight or dark knocking down treed Coons. It would be impossible to have a perfect rimfire scope that fits all the wide range of shooting disciplines covered by the all powerful rimfire cartridge.

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Folks ain't got a sense of humor no more. They don't laugh they just get sore.

Need to follow the rules. Just hard to determine which set of rules to follow
Now the rules have changed again.


Posted By: stickbow46
Date Posted: September/21/2010 at 21:18
I'm sorry,I will never buy a scope that doesn't come with misses in it.Hell I have a perfect record why would I want to brake that streak Big Grin

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Pearls of Wisdom are Heard not Spoken


Posted By: bman940
Date Posted: September/22/2010 at 10:06
I think this rimfire scope will have to work for many different applications. Defintely hunting, target shooting/plinking. I am thinking something affordable that anyone could put on a 10/22 and have a great time and not wish they had splurged more $.

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Bart

Nikon Pro Staff

www.nikonhunting.com


Posted By: 3_tens
Date Posted: September/24/2010 at 10:03
I have never had a scope that I didn't wish I had more at some point .
wish list.
1. very light weight.
2. Crystal clear optics at all powers.
3. 1X for running squirrels
4. 30X for fine target shots.
5. Slim and sleek to match .22 size
6. Large eyebox for fast accusituon.
7. 90 mm to pick up light at night
8. Heavy reticle for low light
9 Extra fine reticle for targets
10. Strong as a ratchet wrench to be tossed in the bed of the truck.
11.
12.
Shocked


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Folks ain't got a sense of humor no more. They don't laugh they just get sore.

Need to follow the rules. Just hard to determine which set of rules to follow
Now the rules have changed again.


Posted By: bman940
Date Posted: September/25/2010 at 13:02
LOL, 
The proverbial be careful what you ask for.....
Thanks for the very thought out reply.
I think the only thing you didn't say was under $100!
I agree with many of them. 
I think 3-12x42, maybe 32....
Agree,slim and sleek....Crystal, absolutely,fine reticle,ok....
90 mm, there goes light and sleek....
Strong, yup, mine ends up in a tool box in a case arapped in a blanket when I have 4 people with me.
Thanks for input, can't wait to see what others consider important in a 22LR scope.



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Bart

Nikon Pro Staff

www.nikonhunting.com


Posted By: SharpShooter
Date Posted: October/03/2010 at 06:50

I currently only have one .22 rifle (Marlin 880SQ) that I use for everything from target shooting to squirrel and coon hunting.  So, the perfect scope is something i've been looking for as well and I just ordered a Nitrex TR2 3-15X42 with the EBX Ballistic reticle that I believe is going to be able to cover all of my needs. 

My idea of the perfect rimfire scope is one that has (this is going to resemble the scope I just ordered, but for good reason):
1. A wide magnification range for both hunting and target shooting (2.5-16 like bushnell).
2. Side focus that that goes down to at least 25 yards (10-15 would be even better).
3. An objective lense that is big enough for target shooting and low light shooting but not too big to be easily carried in the woods (40-42 is my favorite).
4. A ballistic reticle that allows for quick shots at a wide variety of ranges, but one that isnt too cluttered for hunting.  Also, not too thin for hunting but not too thick for target shooting.
5. Ballistic software to go with this reticle so that I can match it to my exact ammo.
6. An illuminated reticle option.
7. Open/pop-up turrets (1/4moa) that are very reliable for the situations where there is time to make adjustments for longer shots.
8. All the obvious stuff like crystal clear lenses, as light as possible, durrable, and of course affordable.  I would be willing to pay anywhere from $250-$400 depending on the quality.  I know a lot of people dont like spending that much on a scope for their rimfire, but some will spend well over double that. I think that most of the opticly-informed people on here know that a relatively decent quality scope is going to start at around the $250 mark if not more.  There are scopes that cost less than that like the Muller APV that have had many great reviews, but that's not a feature rich scope like the above mentioned.  Again though, this is all just my opinion.  Hope maybe some of it was helpful.
 
I was going to buy a 4-16X42 Monarch with either a mildot or BDC reticle, but I wanted something that could focus down to less than 50 yards.  It was the top runner until I saw the Nitrex and the deal they had on them. Wasnt going to buy a scope until next summer, but I had to jump on the deal. 
 
Anyways, that is MY idea of the perfect rimfire scope.  I know a scope like that isn't going to be as light as a 2-7X32 or have as much magnification as an 8-32X50, but it's right in the middle of both of them and I think that kind of scope covers a little bit of everything.  The only way to cover absolutely everything is to make an entire line of scopes to do so:)


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: October/03/2010 at 08:55
Originally posted by bman940 bman940 wrote:

If you build a rimfire scope from the ground up, what would you want to o see? 
Inquiring minds want to know....
 
 
The Target


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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: Sparky
Date Posted: October/03/2010 at 09:07
LaughI like it!


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: October/03/2010 at 09:36
http://swfa.com/Bushnell-4-16x40-Elite-4200-Rifle-Scope-P11606.aspx">Bushnell 4-16x40 Elite 4200 Rifle Scope
http://swfa.com/images/bushnell_multix_popup.jpg">Multi-X http://swfa.com/Bushnell-4-16x40-Elite-4200-Rifle-Scope-P11606.aspx - Bushnell 4-16x40 Elite 4200 Rifle Scope
Stock # - 424164SF
  • Matte
  • Multi-X
  • 1"
  • Rainguard
  • Side Focus
  • http://bushnell.com/downloads/rebates/Bushnell_Jacket_Rebate.pdf - Free Fleece Pullover (Mail-In Coupon)
$499.95
http://swfa.com/Weaver-25-7x28-Classic-Rimfire-Rifle-Scope-P600.aspx">Weaver 2.5-7x28 Classic Rimfire Rifle Scope
http://swfa.com/images/weaver_dualx_popup.jpg">Dual-X http://swfa.com/Weaver-25-7x28-Classic-Rimfire-Rifle-Scope-P600.aspx - Weaver 2.5-7x28 Classic Rimfire Rifle Scope
Stock # - 849431
  • Matte
  • Dual-X
  • 1"
$139.95
I had one of the bushnell 4200 4-16x40 scopes on my 22 untill I needed it for a 30-06 now I have a Weaver 2.5-7x28 both have been quite acceptable for general purpose use and light target use.
There are many scopes that work for a 22 but you either need adjustable parallax or a rimfire scope with parallax adjusted to a range more suited for how a 22 is most often used. If someone was going to really stretech out the distance and target shoot with it past 200 yds I think the Sightron SIII fixed 16x or 20x would be a good choice as they have a huge amount of internal adjustment. The problem with .22 is the accuracy is limited by the poor aerodynamic design when you compare it to something like a 17HMR.


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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: bman940
Date Posted: October/03/2010 at 12:39
Frnd, I agree with mst of what you say. I just don't think hunting "critter" past 100 yards is realistic and I have friends that won't shoot past 50-75 yards max. 
One of the key drawbacks to the 22LR is bullet design, I think there is only so much that can be done hence the popularity of the 17 hmr which lets you reach out to 200 yards with practice. Of course both of these rounds are also severely affected by even a light breeze. They are both big fun to shoot and the 22LR at 50 and the 17 at 100 are tough to beat. I have always been a 22 hornet fan too....

The rimfire scope I am asking for suggestions needs to be many different things. All of which are recreational. There are a lot of scopes on the markey today that work on the 22LR, but one that is exactly what we want ....?
     A few posts ago the request for an immuminated reticle option came up, honestly that's the first time someone has suggested that for a rimfire scope, definitely something to check into. I have a IR scope but have never needed the Illumununated Reticle for any deer I have shot thus far. Neat to have though.



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Bart

Nikon Pro Staff

www.nikonhunting.com


Posted By: Average Joe
Date Posted: October/03/2010 at 12:51
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Originally posted by bman940 bman940 wrote:

If you build a rimfire scope from the ground up, what would you want to o see? 
Inquiring minds want to know....
 
 
The Target
Now that's good thinking right there Big Grin

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I'm classic shag nasty type.


Posted By: 3_tens
Date Posted: October/03/2010 at 16:54
For me, the best rimfire scope that I have ever had (as far as features) is the Old Weaver V-22.
It was light and slim, yet had a fairly large eyebox for its day that was easy to get behind. Fine reticle with 2-6 zoom. That old Weaver did not have coatings like the scopes of today, but it had most of what it needed. Nobody makes anything like it anymore.
To design new,1.5 or lower on the bottom would be nice. 6-7 on top. Clear, Not the cloudy fuzzy stuff that is in many of the rimfire scopes. This way you do not feel the need for more magnification. 1" tube to give a little more elevation range for the ones that need it.
50 yd paralax that would keep the higher power crisp. This would be a good start for a good .22 scope.
 


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Folks ain't got a sense of humor no more. They don't laugh they just get sore.

Need to follow the rules. Just hard to determine which set of rules to follow
Now the rules have changed again.


Posted By: bman940
Date Posted: October/05/2010 at 11:38
Agree, a 1" tube, fine reticle though I am quite partial to the BDC reticles.
Glass surface coatings are key to making a rimfire scope a quality scope hunters/shooters can use in all settings and light conditions. 
Thanks,


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Bart

Nikon Pro Staff

www.nikonhunting.com


Posted By: Centaur 1
Date Posted: October/12/2010 at 20:27

There are plenty of scopes that will work great on the .17hmr, when I think of "rimfire" I think of the .22lr. What I would like to see is an affordable scope. Twenty two's in my eye's are short range fun guns that also make great short range, small game guns. Most of us just want to have fun on weekends and shoot some squirrels and rabbits come fall. Most of us use rifles that cost in the $200 range and we buy bulk ammo at Walmart. We want our setups to shoot minute of squirrel at 50 yards and we like to make targets spin.

What I think that I would like.
 
1) Price <$100
2) Low power variable, 1-4, 1-5 etc.
3) 1" diameter tube
4) 20mm objective
5) short length, 6-8"
6) Duplex reticle
7) 4-5" eye relief
8) 25 yard paralax (that's half of what I consider reasonable max range)


Posted By: bman940
Date Posted: October/13/2010 at 11:11
Thanks Centaur, 
$100 for a good scope might be a tough deal.
I agree, when I think of rimfire I think of 22lr.
Some ideas I have received ar 20-40 mm obj.
6-12 in. length
All diferent reticle suggestions.
duplex,illuminated,BDC and a few more.
50 yard. Para. is what most suggest.

I buy my 22 lr ammo same place you do. Best price I can get!
My son shoots 22 LR ammo like he's not paying for it, oh, he's not.
I make him shoot a bolt when I can to really practice.

Thank you for the input, I have had a great response to this question.



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Bart

Nikon Pro Staff

www.nikonhunting.com


Posted By: Centaur 1
Date Posted: October/15/2010 at 10:48
The parrallax is probably not that critical. It's just common for me to squirrel hunt where shots are 25 feet to 25 yards. I also don't think that reticle is important. People just expect more than plain crosshairs. A bdc reticle might actually be helpful in my case of extreme close range, most times I have to aim high in order to hit squirrels. The reasons that I believe the scope should have the smaller objective are simple. Large objective lens came about so enough light can come through at high power. Since we don't use .22's to kill things at 600 yards using a 24X scope the large lens isn't needed. Also, most 22's are smaller than centerfire rifles and full sized scopes just look awkward.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: October/15/2010 at 11:41
It does not really matter how far you are looking, the amount of light transmitted through the scope will be the same.  IMO, once a scope drops below 3mm to 4mm of exit pupil I cannot stand to use them.  They get to dim, and the eye placement becomes to critical.  So dropping the objective size of a high power scope only hurts performance.  Sure it may look a little better and sit lower, but considering what it does to performance it is not a very good trade off IMO.  

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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: October/15/2010 at 11:42
A couple of scopes that would work very well on a .22 would be the 6x and 10x Super Snipers.  THey have plenty of exit pupil, decent glass quality and they focus all the way down to 10yards.  

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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: bman940
Date Posted: October/15/2010 at 16:42
Most folks like the 3-9 with something in the 32-42 mm obj.
Got the BDC reticle, I have shot my 10/22 using it and done well.
No plans to shoot ast 100 yards with a 22 lr
Agree, exit pupil is huge and anytihng less then 3.5 mm is prob. going ot be to small.
Thanks again for all the thoughtful suggestions.
Like I keep telling folks, be careful what you ask for....



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Bart

Nikon Pro Staff

www.nikonhunting.com


Posted By: Centaur 1
Date Posted: October/15/2010 at 18:42
The exit pupil size does need to be 4mm or greater. Since I'm only looking to use my .22's at short ranges, a 1.5-5X20mm scope would still give me a 4mm exit pupil size on full power. If I need more range I'll be using my .17hmr instead.


Posted By: csacpt
Date Posted: October/15/2010 at 21:55
As usual, just looking around and thinking. I know, dangerous thing for an unsupervised "grasshopper!" LOL
 
That being said, I have an old(almost as old as me) Remington 511 that needs some glass for these old eyes. Mount would need to be figured out since it has no provision for such. Having just purchased one of the Vortex 2-7x32 c3's, it seems that might be a really good choice. What say you, the experts?


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Better to die on your feet than live on your knees! "Ready and Forward"


M14 - Forged in Freedom - Proven in Battle


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: October/19/2010 at 08:05
I really like this little 2-7. It is compact, very clear, with non-critical eye relief. The only concern I would have is that its parallax is set for 100 yards. But - parallax does not appear to be a much of a problem for this scope. if you have a repeatable cheek weld it should do very well imho.


Posted By: WestOfPecos
Date Posted: October/19/2010 at 08:30
Bman - here is my list:
- under $300, a touch less would be better (most of us use 22 rifles around that price)
- very light and compact
- non critical eye relief (so that it's easy for our kids to use)
- maybe AO, or, if not AO, not very parallax sensitive
- very clear glass in the center, edges would be less of an issue
- good control of flare
- decent lowlight performance (often used for varmint control in the eve.)
- imho long erector, 5x or 6x if possible, maybe 2-12, because you do use the rifle on very small critters a bit far away, and, of course, close by when you need to mount and shoot very fast
- quick reticle with a couple of holdover dots or marks for deadholding quickly, including a lateral one for windage. The Vortex C3 reticle with a couple of addl dashes below the circle would be ideal, imho.
- enough adjustment that it can work on a 25 moa base so as to be able to go on dual use (plinking/ range) rifles if needed

I also see a need for a radically different scope, for trainer/ range use. That one would be for long range 22LR work, which is exploding all around the country right now, where you want to simulate very long centerfire range using cheap ammo. 10 years ago, there was almost nothing like that, now many ranges offer it everywhere and a lot of people do it. For that, you want a larger scope of course, but maybe not all the way to 50mm (it's really big on a 22). My list for it would be:
- around $300
- can see 22LR bullet holes at 200 yards
- 8-24x40, or higher magnification, must be usable on the high end
- fine reticle
- very clear glass in the center
- chromatic aberration or poor edge glass would be fine, since it is a range scope only, flare would need to be decently controlled
- no worries about low light since range work, but would need to be clear enough for most daylight conditions to see bullet holes at 200 yards
- large amount of adjustment, at least 70 moa in elevation, can work with a 25 moa base

Of course a single scope that could do both would be great but I don't see this happening in the next 25 years:-) Mo2c.


Posted By: TimW
Date Posted: October/25/2010 at 10:39

Nikon needs to come out with a good variable power scope.  I prefer 4-16 power myself and was looking for something similar to the Buckmaster in which I'm totally happy.

1.) Clarity of the lenses. 
 
I've had 16 power scopes (enough magnification) but the quality of lense sucked.  I had more clairty in 4x Leupold.
2.) 4-16 power in either 42, 44, or 50 mm lense
3.) 1 inch tube 
4.) Appropriate crosshair.  Something along the lines of fine duplex.  I personally don't care a lot for the mildot in a 22 rifle.  To much clutter for me.
5.) Side focus--down to at least 25 yards.
6.) Tough scope weight and length under control
 


Posted By: bman940
Date Posted: October/25/2010 at 21:43
From what I have gathered thus far, consensus is 1 in. tube, 3-12 with side focus to 25 yards, obviously quality lenses as well, which means coated . 42 seems to be most thought of as objective but a fair amount like the 32. Not being to big and heavy for a 22 rifle is a big concern. About even on fine cross hair and BDC, which I have used on a 22LR with success because of Nikon's Spot On Program giving me the correct distances for each circle with my load data. Most have said they want it for plinking, some for hunting, mainly something reliable and repeatable. All for under $250. 
Tim, Thanks for your input. Nice to hear you are happy with your Buckmaster.
Check out the SPot On site Tim, it'll help you with data for your scope even if it is not BDC.
Bart
Nikon Pro Staff


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Bart

Nikon Pro Staff

www.nikonhunting.com



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