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Long range 101 + amendments

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Category: Scopes
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Forum Description: Paper punchin' scopes
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Printed Date: October/22/2017 at 23:34


Topic: Long range 101 + amendments
Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Subject: Long range 101 + amendments
Date Posted: June/22/2010 at 17:09
file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJeff%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) }

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJeff%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - First and foremost, what follows below will not make you a good long range shooter. -    Absolutely nothing stated herein can function as a suitable substitute for formal instruction, training, and practice. There is no "quick fix" or magic optic that will turn a novice into an F class champion shooter or a super secret squirrel sniper.

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJeff%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -  

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJeff%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - Prior to an educated discussion on long range shooting, we must first establish vocabulary.

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJeff%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -  

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJeff%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - A "sniper rifle" is a precision rifle issued to a billeted law enforcement or military shooter.

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJeff%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -  

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJeff%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - A "long range rifle" is nothing more than a precision rifle deployed against distant targets.

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJeff%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -  

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJeff%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - A "long range scope" is an optical aiming device designed to magnify the target to a sufficient degree to allow accurate shot placement at range. -   One need not mount a 20X scope to make accurate 600 yard shots.

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJeff%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -  

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJeff%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - What follows below is not intended to be all-inclusive.

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJeff%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -  

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJeff%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -  

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJeff%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -  

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJeff%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - Before we dive into specifics, one more clarification

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJeff%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -  

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJeff%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - I am a visual learner, the picture below demonstrates the difference between the frequently misused terms "precision" and "accuracy"




Replies:
Posted By: stork23raz
Date Posted: June/22/2010 at 17:34
Super

Everyone who comes to this forum needs to read this before they start posting.


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And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:28


Posted By: trigger29
Date Posted: June/22/2010 at 17:54
This is a very good article RC. The points you make are accurate, yet simple enough to understand. Hopefully, some will read this before posting all their questions about the new long range craze. Good solid info.

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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


Posted By: shooter07
Date Posted: June/22/2010 at 18:22
Rancid, 

Awesome piece. Something tells me it had a little something to do with that 1500 yard target scope thread. Wink

This makes me feel better about my first long range target build. I went with a Remington700 SPS Tactical .308 package with 20" heavy barrel in a B&C medalist light tactical stock. I've been shooting since i was able to hold guns but i knew being my first step into long range shooting, i wasn't going to be a "mall ninja" or "tacticool". I wanted a fairly affordable project to start out with. I've shot bigger calibers but this was just a well rounded and well priced venture.

Most of my shooting with be 600 yards and in, with a few here and there over that distance. Rancid you're making me feel even better about my choice of Bushnell's 6500 elite 2.5-16x42 with DOA reticle for the distances ill be shooting at.

I love OT because there are a good # of very knowledgeable people that will give no bs advice. This is a thread, all people new to the mid-long range game, should read. 


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Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

"And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts. And I looked, and behold a pale horse, and his name that sat on him was Death, and hell followed with him."


Posted By: lucytuma
Date Posted: June/22/2010 at 18:57
Excellent read and alot of valuable information.  I'm going to re-read it.

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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson


Posted By: lucytuma
Date Posted: June/22/2010 at 19:31

After re-reading it, I was wondering if some one could add more input in the area of "matching turret to reticle". I would like a more detailed explanation of this information.



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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: June/22/2010 at 20:43
If a turret is in increments of mils and the reticle is in increments of mils (in an FFP scope or an SFP scope at a designated power setting), there is no math in adjusting fire:
1.  define the mil correction on the reticle
2.  click in on the turret
3.  fire.

 If the reticle is in mils and the turret is in MOA:
1.  determine the correction in mils on the reticle
2.  convert mils to MOA
3.  check your math
4.  get pissed off that the battery just died in your solar calculator because it is an overcast day
5.  ask the guy next to you how many mils are in a minute of angle
6.   figure out what a .25MOA adjustment is at 400 yards
7.  hope you didn't screw up the math
8.  Click in adjustment in MOA (1/4MOA at 400 yards equals a 1-inch movement per click on target)
9.  fire
10. wonder what you screwed up because your round isn't on paper
11. recheck math
...

It is doable.  Most who have been shooting for 15 years or more have had to learn to do it.  But it ain't the best way.

Another monkey in the wrench is the fact that MOA are usually broken out in 0.25MOA increments rather than in tenths, like a mil.  Mils are easy, easier to break up, easier to calculate - at least for anyone with base-10 math skills, base-4 math skills, not so much.



Make more sense or confuse things even more?


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The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."


Posted By: Dale Clifford
Date Posted: June/22/2010 at 20:51
or just range in with a lrf, dial in the moa directly , and circumvent the mil vs. moa altogether.

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I love little league baseball-- it keeps the kids out of the house
Yogi Bera



Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: June/22/2010 at 21:00
Or that.

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The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: June/22/2010 at 21:02
If you do happen to own/use a mil reticle/MOA turret, a Mil Dot Master can be a life-saver.

http://swfa.com/Mil-Dot-Master-P91.aspx">Mil-Dot Master
http://swfa.com/Mil-Dot-Master-P91.aspx - Mil-Dot Master
Stock # - MD1
  • Estimating Target Size
  • Determining Range to Target
  • Correcting for Bullet Drop
  • Correcting for Wind Drift
  • Correcting for Uphill/Downhill
  • Correcting Correction to Mil (holdover)
  • Correcting Correction to MOA (sight adjustment)
$29.95





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The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."


Posted By: 338LAPUASLAP
Date Posted: June/22/2010 at 21:45

very nice...

simple read ...
 
what is that old K>I>S>S


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No one


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: June/22/2010 at 22:10
Tag.

ILya


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http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://www.opticsthoughts.com - opticsthoughts.smugmug.com
Those who are merciful to the cruel, are cruel to the merciful.


Posted By: helo18
Date Posted: June/22/2010 at 22:35
Tag for info.

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To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

GEORGE WASHINGTON


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: June/23/2010 at 06:16
Great job RC

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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: June/23/2010 at 11:59
very nice write up, Jeff.  Not too much information to absorb in a first read, well "designed", lead in for the sequals to come...
I know you labored over whether to do this or not...
Good job. 


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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: June/23/2010 at 13:37
No, I labored over whether or not to post this, the wondering started after the doing was complete.

Another more in-depth is coming soon.  This is very, very basic, but will answer many questions for new shooters.  I hope.


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The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: June/23/2010 at 14:29
Thanks for your effort we do seem to get the same questions over and over.

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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: June/23/2010 at 17:38
Great job, Jeff! 

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Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: stickbow46
Date Posted: June/23/2010 at 17:50
Thanks for that wealth of info.RC. Like the sign says"Pearls of Wisdom are Heard not Spoken"Bow

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Pearls of Wisdom are Heard not Spoken


Posted By: shooter07
Date Posted: June/23/2010 at 18:43
Rancid,

Do you know how long its been since i heard "Mall Ninjas"?

Just re-read the entire thing + amendments.  Very good stuff.


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Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

"And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts. And I looked, and behold a pale horse, and his name that sat on him was Death, and hell followed with him."


Posted By: billyburl2
Date Posted: June/23/2010 at 22:40
Very good article RC!

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If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: June/24/2010 at 06:22
I like the revision

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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: tahqua
Date Posted: June/24/2010 at 10:31
Good one Jeff!..........tag
 
Doug


Posted By: 8shots
Date Posted: June/25/2010 at 02:33
Nice read and even to those that shoot often, there are still some good pointers in your write-up. Thanks.


Posted By: trigger29
Date Posted: June/27/2010 at 11:41
Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

Nice read and even to those that shoot often, there are still some good pointers in your write-up. Thanks.
One more point that should be made. Now that you mention shooting often. If you are going to play the long range game, you should be prepared, and willing to shoot often. It is a parishable skill, and if you don't practice, you won't be good at it. It's an expensive game to play. With shooting a lot, comes lots of ammo, and new barrels, ect, ect.

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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: July/21/2010 at 15:45
Good job Jeff. Nicely put.

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With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: JF4545
Date Posted: November/05/2010 at 00:07
 You did a nice job writing this Jeff!
Thank you!
I look forward to reading whats coming even more, its all helpful to me.
Having a better memory would help.
Damn the 70's anyway....
J...


Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: December/05/2010 at 18:43
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

very nice write up, Jeff.  Not too much information to absorb in a first read, well "designed", lead in for the sequals to come...
I know you labored over whether to do this or not...
Good job. 


+1

Just saw this thread for the first time. Awesome job Jeff!!!  Excellent


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Fish to Live, Live to Hunt


Posted By: joereg
Date Posted: January/22/2011 at 18:33
Rancid,
that is an excellent piece of writing. Lots of thought, experience and wisdom went into that, and it shows.  Your posting is a must read for anyone, beginner and experienced shooters alike.

You are a good man and I salute you.

Respectfully
Joe


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Read your Proverbs for....


Posted By: 338LAPUASLAP
Date Posted: March/29/2011 at 20:41
TAG

Sleep

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No one


Posted By: philip393
Date Posted: June/09/2011 at 01:41
Great post, valued info.

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Women Love Guns & So Do I!!!!


Posted By: Ernie Bishop
Date Posted: June/09/2011 at 02:03
Jeff,
Nice piece.
A lot of assumptions tend to happen for those who shoot often and at distance.
The "101" thread was a great idea.


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Ernie



"If you think you are perfect, just try walking on water."


Posted By: IRON GUTS KELLY
Date Posted: August/09/2011 at 13:43
Great post!
Big Smile
 


Posted By: HKtoTikka
Date Posted: November/18/2015 at 07:04
As a new member, I would like to note that I cannot access anything off what appear to be links for a number of articles on the original post.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: November/18/2015 at 09:55
Yea, that original post seems irreparably messed up.  It was much longer, all the images are gone, and the format isn't correct.

I am not sure what happened, and not sure how to fix it, sorry.


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The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."


Posted By: Kobey
Date Posted: January/27/2016 at 17:34
And here i was not so quietly blaming my iPhone for it...




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