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SWFA 1-4X SS - Now Available!

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Category: Scopes
Forum Name: Tactical Scopes
Forum Description: Police and military tools of the trade
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Printed Date: October/20/2021 at 18:02
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Topic: SWFA 1-4X SS - Now Available!
Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Subject: SWFA 1-4X SS - Now Available!
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 14:12
Updated:  these begin shipping 15Feb11.

A proper review is coming shortly.


If you are in the market for a 1-4, DON'T BUY NOW!


Not sure when this will be available to the masses, but it'll be worth the wait.

1-4X24
illuminated FFP reticle
target turrets (look to be slightly smaller version of the new SS turrets (same design as the 10X HD and 3-9.)
Very sturdy (not light in weight, probably work fine as a hammer, but not too heavy.)
Easy to get behind.
No tunneling.


More to come later.

If you buy a Nightforce 1-4 or Trijicon, soon, you will regret it!


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.



Replies:
Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 14:22
As a matter of fact, I am in the market for a 1-4X scope, and I am indeed waiting on the SS 1-4X24. 
 
My understanding is that it had the SAME turrets as the 10X HD and 3-9X... is this not the case?
 
Did you happen to get your hands on a prototype, or did you make a trip to SWFA and see the prototype?


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 14:30
WOW!!!!!!!!
Chris is a mind reader too. How'd he know what I wanted?


-------------
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: cpwomack
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 14:37
Just what I needed to hear, been researching a 1-4x for my LR308, guess I will just wait on the SS.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 14:39
I made subtle threats ("You know, you could be eating dinner one night and a bullet come...")


I have a prototype, pics blow.

The turrets are "similar": they are same basic design, same 0.1cm, but shorter than the 10X HD and 3-9, so the turrets are a better fit on a smaller rifle.


Ruler was the closest I had, and thought the info warranted its use.

















Word on availability is: "TBD."  Word on price is up to Chris to disclose.


In short, it is flipping sweet.  As a prior owner of Trijicon, USO SN4, Millett DMS, and user of almost everything else (Nightforce 1-4 included), I'd wait for it, everything else in its league is WAY more expensive.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 14:42
Wowza, that looks great.  Thunbs Up   Very interested in more of your testing reports.  

-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: rjtfroggy
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 15:09
 1-4x24 is great for you guys with fantastic eyes(like I used to have) but as we age our sight isn't what it once was and 4x just don't cut it anymore.
 So I guess I will just keep waiting on the 4.8-20x42 that he announced a few months ago and possibly the 6x.


-------------
froggy


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 15:11

Any way you could post one of your famous "through the scope" views of the reticle with illumination both on and off?



-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 15:19
awesome.  Great to see the SS line expanding more......

-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: stork23raz
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 15:23

ETA?

price?
 
I would love to have one for my bushmaster


-------------
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:28


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 15:25
Damn it, Jeff!

Did you have to post this ten hours before I go on vacation?  Now I will be roaming around the South Pacific looking for internet connection just to see how this scope is holding up!

ILya


-------------
http://www.darklordofoptics.com - www.darklordofoptics.com
https://odysee.com/@DarkLordOfOptics - Odyssee Video Channel


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 15:53
i want one!hopefully the tube is long enough to be mounted on a magnum length action. would be awesome for a .375H&H or a .458Lott type dgr rifle.


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 15:53
Enjoy the trip, ILya, the full report will be here when you return.

And, got the package, full review on that will come to you first.


Yea, will get a "through the scope pic" ASAP.


ETA: "when it's ready"
Price: somewhere in the ballpark of $750, as I have been told.





-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: ccoker
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 16:02
wicked cool



-------------
www.TacticalGunReview.com

Pro Staff - Silencer Shop

http://tacticalgunreview.com



Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 16:06
Originally posted by ccoker ccoker wrote:

wicked cool




very!


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: JF4545
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 16:21
I was just thinking about the 1x4x24 Accupoint with Red Arrow, instead of the Aimpoint for the wifes 6.5 RRA Carbine. Now What!!??!
 
Is this Reticle for the SS going to be easy on the eyes as Froggy said? Im not gettin any damn younger either, I don't feel as Froggy, Sorry Froggy!Big Grin
 
You guys are almost forcing me to learn this mildot thing arnt you...


Posted By: ccoker
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 16:22
you may need to take a drive west to Seguin and go hog hunting with me :)
We just got on our lease, 6500 acres of hog heaven and a place to stay


-------------
www.TacticalGunReview.com

Pro Staff - Silencer Shop

http://tacticalgunreview.com



Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 16:36
So, RC, where is this review you've been bragging so much about????????  It's been HOURS since you mentioned it...

-------------
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: JF4545
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 16:41
Jeff,

Is there a shot of the reticle by any chance???



Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 16:43
The scope won't be on the range till tomorrow, I'll get a pic of the reticle there.

At 1X, it is a little thin, but Chris is aware and a change is in the works.  At 4X, it is very nice, multiple aiming points.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: JF4545
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 16:46
Originally posted by ccoker ccoker wrote:

you may need to take a drive west to Seguin and go hog hunting with me :)
We just got on our lease, 6500 acres of hog heaven and a place to stay
 
Ohhhh, Ok Mr Coker I guess I could go Hog Huntin with ya, What time in thge mornin do yall wanna leave, 11:00? Well Take Your Truck, Your Whiskey too!CrutchBoozer


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 16:46
Wouldn't the illumination offset the thin reticle at 1X? 
 
I'm assuming the ill knob adjusts bright enough for daytime use, and dim enough for night use; is this correct?


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 17:03
That is correct.

-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: billyburl2
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 17:26
This very cool!!! But any word on the high power variable yet?

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If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?


Posted By: neilbilly
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 17:51

Mr Coker is my newest, bestest friend. This Much


I would be happy to drive us out to that lease sometime. Thunbs Up



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If God didn't want me to play with it, he'd of made my arms shorter.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 17:57
Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

This very cool!!! But any word on the high power variable yet?



None to me, but info doesn't flow my way much.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: Trays 7940
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 18:23
Ive got to get a new hobby... or another xtra job!Sad Pacer

-------------
http://militarysignatures.com" rel="nofollow">

I don't shoot innocent animals, just the one's who look guilty.


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 19:10
Son of a......Cencored
 
Is that on the Test Drive program yet??  Big Smile 


Posted By: Chris Farris
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 21:56
Wait until you see the reticle.  Smoking Bandit


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/05/2010 at 22:00
what will be the maximum usable mounting length?? im real interested to know if it will fit on magnum actions.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Jon A
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 01:40
For those dying to see the reticle, if RC doesn't mind my piggybacking on his thread, here are some shots.  My photography isn't the best tonight so some are a bit blurry but it should give you an idea.  I'll hit the range with it this weekend for some outdoor shots.














Who is it?  20 ft:




10 ft:




Keep in mind, this is just a prototype.  There will be changes to the production version, specifically making it a bit easier to see on 1X.

Overall I'm extremely impressed with the scope.  While I didn't have time for pics before dark I did take it outside and the glass is extremely good.  No tunnel vision effect on any power, no noticeable distortion of any sort, and very, very sharp.  I'll have more comparisons later.

I love the new knobs--lower profile and 10 mil per turn.  I wish my SS 3-9 had those knobs!  When you choose not to use the BDC function of the reticle but dial instead, a single turn will get you as far as you're going to do anything with an AR and a 4X scope.


Posted By: stork23raz
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 05:12
sexy

-------------
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:28


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 05:51
Thanks for the reticle pics, Jon.


Posted By: rjtfroggy
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 06:14
Originally posted by JF4545 JF4545 wrote:

I was just thinking about the 1x4x24 Accupoint with Red Arrow, instead of the Aimpoint for the wifes 6.5 RRA Carbine. Now What!!??!
 
Is this Reticle for the SS going to be easy on the eyes as Froggy said? Im not gettin any damn younger either, I don't feel as Froggy, Sorry Froggy!Big Grin
 
You guys are almost forcing me to learn this mildot thing arnt you...
 
    I should clearify, since I broke my back hunting isn't even an option,YET, so sitting at the bench and target shooting is all I can do and looking for a 3/4 inch dot sometimes a 1/2 inch isn't easy with lower power scopes,so I went to variables up to 20x or a few SS 20x for the range.
 When I am able to hunt again a 1-4 would fit nicely on my 700ML and or my 1200 winchester 12 guage.
 My distance vission is still good but the focus of my dominant eye is blurred, and I need reading glasses for up close which makes looking through a low power difficult for longer shots.
 Not knocking anything any scope makers do but I wish they would consider the opticly challenged once in a while.


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froggy


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 06:48
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Thanks for the reticle pics, Jon.


Yes, indeed!  I appreciate that!


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: billyburl2
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 07:02
Very nice pics! Are the BDC aimpoints tuned to a specific caliber? Or are they to a mil-based?

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If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 07:07
Stare ok ok,  who do you have to sleep with to get one? LOL  I wanna play!

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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 08:46
Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

Very nice pics! Are the BDC aimpoints tuned to a specific caliber? Or are they to a mil-based?


My understanding is they are tuned to 5.56 NATO ball (not sure which one yet), but I recommended to Chris they include the drop in mils too so it can go on any caliber and rifle and be meaningful.

To the range later today.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 10:52
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

Very nice pics! Are the BDC aimpoints tuned to a specific caliber? Or are they to a mil-based?


My understanding is they are tuned to 5.56 NATO ball (not sure which one yet),
 
62 gr. @ 2800 fps, according to some info Chris sent me about the reticle a few days ago.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Alan Robertson
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 11:17
Rancid Coolaid said: "I have a prototype, pics blow."
They're OK. Really.

Does that have a zero stop?

@Pyro... if you don't quit talkin' about your .375, I'm gonna get the fever and have to go get me one- can barely afford all the rifles I have and don't need as it is.


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"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"


Posted By: Yak
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 11:55
I've never had any luck with 1-4's in the FFP as the reticle seemed way too small to use at 1x. Any chance a 2FP will be offered as an option?

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"Both of you peckerwood's can KMFA!!!" ~ Ceska


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 12:05
Just curious, but why would you range at 1x?  If a target is far enough away that you need to range it you would think that you would be at 4x.  The 1x would be designed for brush hunting or CQB 

-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Yak
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 13:32
That's my point. Having the ability to range at 1x isn't worth it to me (key words: to me.). The reticle set at 1x would be more useful (to me) if it were in the 2FP. Maybe I'm missing something? But SWFA knows a thing or ten when it comes to optics so we shall see.

-------------
"Both of you peckerwood's can KMFA!!!" ~ Ceska


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 13:44
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

Very nice pics! Are the BDC aimpoints tuned to a specific caliber? Or are they to a mil-based?


My understanding is they are tuned to 5.56 NATO ball (not sure which one yet),
 
62 gr. @ 2800 fps, according to some info Chris sent me about the reticle a few days ago.
Perfect! That is exactly what I have been looking for. So much for the Vortex Razor spotting scope I HAD been saving for.

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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: Trays 7940
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 13:58
Hey Chris, can I pitch a tent behind SWFA for awhile, My wife is gonna kick me out of the house when I tell her how I "need" this scope.... Bandito

-------------
http://militarysignatures.com" rel="nofollow">

I don't shoot innocent animals, just the one's who look guilty.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 15:12
Originally posted by Yak Yak wrote:

That's my point. Having the ability to range at 1x isn't worth it to me (key words: to me.). The reticle set at 1x would be more useful (to me) if it were in the 2FP. Maybe I'm missing something? But SWFA knows a thing or ten when it comes to optics so we shall see.
 
I believe what Supertool means is that although the BDC / ranging portion of the reticle is tiny and hard to read at 1X, the remainder of the reticle (the thicker posts and main crosshairs) is still visible at 1X as if it were a standard duplex or 4A.  So, since you aren't likely to be ranging at low power anyway, you can still use it as any other standard reticle at low power.  When you want to use the ranging and BDC portion of the reticle, you're more likely to have power turned up, where the dots and circles become visible.  And, since it is in FFP, you don't have to worry about whether the power is set exactly at a given magnification for the BDC/mil dot spacing to be valid without compensating for magnification. 


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: helo18
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 19:36
Very cool.  And it will be perfected by the time I need one (actually can afford a AR-10 and the new SS).  Waiting for the report.

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To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

GEORGE WASHINGTON


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 20:21
Originally posted by Alan Robertson Alan Robertson wrote:

Rancid Coolaid said: "I have a prototype, pics blow."
They're OK. Really.

Does that have a zero stop?

@Pyro... if you don't quit talkin' about your .375, I'm gonna get the fever and have to go get me one- can barely afford all the rifles I have and don't need as it is.

dude this scope screams for a .45-70, 30-30, .375H&H, .458 lott, etc.




-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Yak
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 20:26
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Yak Yak wrote:

That's my point. Having the ability to range at 1x isn't worth it to me (key words: to me.). The reticle set at 1x would be more useful (to me) if it were in the 2FP. Maybe I'm missing something? But SWFA knows a thing or ten when it comes to optics so we shall see.

 

I believe what Supertool means is that although the BDC / ranging portion of the reticle is tiny and hard to read at 1X, the remainder of the reticle (the thicker posts and main crosshairs) is still visible at 1X as if it were a standard duplex or 4A.  So, since you aren't likely to be ranging at low power anyway, you can still use it as any other standard reticle at low power.  When you want to use the ranging and BDC portion of the reticle, you're more likely to have power turned up, where the dots and circles become visible.  And, since it is in FFP, you don't have to worry about whether the power is set exactly at a given magnification for the BDC/mil dot spacing to be valid without compensating for magnification. 

I understand that. So why the FFP reticle? Is there an advantage to using an FFP reticle in the 1-4 power range? My LIMITED understanding (and some Real World use as well) of low power optics lead me to believe that a reticle in 2FP would be a better option at least in such a low magnification device such as SWFA is proposing. But, seeing as how SWFA name will go on it, I'm sure it will be a first rate unit worthy of any and all considerations. Please keep us informed.    

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"Both of you peckerwood's can KMFA!!!" ~ Ceska


Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 20:28
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Thanks for the reticle pics, Jon.


Yes, indeed!  I appreciate that!


+2

Thanks Jon!!!


-------------
”Be curious, not judge mental.”    -Walt Whitman


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 21:17
Originally posted by Yak Yak wrote:


I understand that. So why the FFP reticle? Is there an advantage to using an FFP reticle in the 1-4 power range?  


For the same reason FFP reticles are used in scopes of any variable range -- ranging and/or bullet drop compensation can be done at any power setting.  While it's true that the reticle may be very thin at 1X on a 1-4X scope, whether or not all or parts of the reticle is visible at 1X has as much to do with reticle design as which plane the reticle is located in.  If the scope is geared toward military / LE use, FFP eliminates any need for the operator to have to remember to set the scope at a particular power before ranging/BDC can be used without having to compensate for power.  With a SFP reticle, the magnification must be set at EXACTLY the power the reticle was calibrated for before it can be used without additional math involved.  It just makes things easier, which is an asset in stressful situations.  Also, again depending on reticle design, FFP may enable you to make the reticle appear bolder at the highest magnification than an equivalent reticle in SFP.  Finally, having the reticle in FFP eliminates any possibility of POI shift when you change power, which can occasionally happen with SFP reticles.

-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: topbrass
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 21:27
After viewing the pictures, the BDC and ranging is virtually unusable at 1x.  So basically you are spending more money for FFP that is in actuality only usable at or near 4x.
 
Most 1-4x scopes are used as two power scopes.  It is either on 1x or 4x.  So might as well be a SFP for all practical purposes.


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 21:33
Originally posted by Jon A Jon A wrote:

For those dying to see the reticle, if RC doesn't mind my piggybacking on his thread, here are some shots.  My photography isn't the best tonight so some are a bit blurry but it should give you an idea.  I'll hit the range with it this weekend for some outdoor shots.














Who is it?  20 ft:




10 ft:




Keep in mind, this is just a prototype.  There will be changes to the production version, specifically making it a bit easier to see on 1X.

Overall I'm extremely impressed with the scope.  While I didn't have time for pics before dark I did take it outside and the glass is extremely good.  No tunnel vision effect on any power, no noticeable distortion of any sort, and very, very sharp.  I'll have more comparisons later.

I love the new knobs--lower profile and 10 mil per turn.  I wish my SS 3-9 had those knobs!  When you choose not to use the BDC function of the reticle but dial instead, a single turn will get you as far as you're going to do anything with an AR and a 4X scope.
Hannity and Ann Coulter...

-------------
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: Chris Farris
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 22:23
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Yak Yak wrote:


I understand that. So why the FFP reticle? Is there an advantage to using an FFP reticle in the 1-4 power range?  


For the same reason FFP reticles are used in scopes of any variable range -- ranging and/or bullet drop compensation can be done at any power setting.  While it's true that the reticle may be very thin at 1X on a 1-4X scope, whether or not all or parts of the reticle is visible at 1X has as much to do with reticle design as which plane the reticle is located in.  If the scope is geared toward military / LE use, FFP eliminates any need for the operator to have to remember to set the scope at a particular power before ranging/BDC can be used without having to compensate for power.  With a SFP reticle, the magnification must be set at EXACTLY the power the reticle was calibrated for before it can be used without additional math involved.  It just makes things easier, which is an asset in stressful situations.  Also, again depending on reticle design, FFP may enable you to make the reticle appear bolder at the highest magnification than an equivalent reticle in SFP.  Finally, having the reticle in FFP eliminates any possibility of POI shift when you change power, which can occasionally happen with SFP reticles.
 
This scope came about soley for the purpose of getting our soldiers a high quality scope at an affordable price that is simple to use....if the head fits in a circle...shoot!  The way your brain works changes drastically when people are shooting at you.  FFP in this scope is to remove one less process that the brain has to perform in combat.


Posted By: neilbilly
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 22:28
I think there's gunna be a nice market for that scope Mr. Farris. Thunbs Up

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If God didn't want me to play with it, he'd of made my arms shorter.


Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 23:13
Pure genius....  Excellent

-------------
”Be curious, not judge mental.”    -Walt Whitman


Posted By: GetSome
Date Posted: April/06/2010 at 23:30
Sweeeeeeeeet.


Posted By: Jon A
Date Posted: April/07/2010 at 05:28
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Hannity and Ann Coulter...

Note to self:  Be sure to switch to porn before next photo shoot.   Politics might offend somebody.        Bandito


Posted By: Jon A
Date Posted: April/07/2010 at 05:38
Originally posted by topbrass topbrass wrote:

Most 1-4x scopes are used as two power scopes.  It is either on 1x or 4x.  So might as well be a SFP for all practical purposes.

I agree that 1-4's can work pretty well both ways and that many of the reasons one wants FFP don't apply to such low powered scopes.  However, FFP does open up some possibilities that aren't there with SFP. 

Usually the best 1X CQB reticle isn't going to be the best 4X 300-500 yd reticle.  With FFP, you have the opportunity to have finer lines better for long shots at 4X with a less cluttered view that will shrink down and converge into a more singular, blunt aiming point at 1X for close stuff.  Granted, this reticle needs some modifications to achieve that but that's the idea. 

Chris has said the reticle will be revised so don't judge too harshly until you see the final product.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: April/07/2010 at 06:33

How'd it do at the range Jeff?



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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: lumberjack149
Date Posted: April/07/2010 at 09:13

wow, cant wait to see the final product; neeeed more gossip, pictures, and range reports. Ive been saving money up for the vortex PST 1-4 when they come out, but i might have to wait a bit longer to see how this SS 1-4 stacks up, ive been happy with every SS ive owned.

Note to Chris - if this costs more than the PST 1-4, then it will be your fault when my wife kills me.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/07/2010 at 10:54
Originally posted by Jon A Jon A wrote:

Usually the best 1X CQB reticle isn't going to be the best 4X 300-500 yd reticle.  With FFP, you have the opportunity to have finer lines better for long shots at 4X with a less cluttered view that will shrink down and converge into a more singular, blunt aiming point at 1X for close stuff.  Granted, this reticle needs some modifications to achieve that but that's the idea. 
 
Exactly.  With SFP, whatever you've got at 1X, you've got at 4X.  Sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes not so good.
 
Personally, I like this reticle as-is and would be perfectly happy with it if nothing were changed, though I'd probably prefer the thin 12:00 crosshair wasn't there at all so that at 1X it looks just like a 4a reticle and making the outer posts a tad wider.  I would leave the "working" portion of the reticle in the center exactly as it is.  With illumination turned on, the concern about the reticle being too thin at 1X is compensated for, and the lit portion of the reticle converges into basically a "+" form at 1X.  At 4X, the reticle still doesn't obscure much of the target for precision shots.  I think the concern about the reticle being too thin at 1X can be solved by simply making the thick posts at 3:00, 6:00, and 9:00 maybe 2X thicker and extending the ends of the horizontal posts further toward center, closer to the horizontal mil dots.  I love the calibrated circles and dots combination in the center.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: topbrass
Date Posted: April/07/2010 at 11:08
Originally posted by Chris Farris Chris Farris wrote:

 
This scope came about soley for the purpose of getting our soldiers a high quality scope at an affordable price that is simple to use....if the head fits in a circle...shoot!  The way your brain works changes drastically when people are shooting at you.  FFP in this scope is to remove one less process that the brain has to perform in combat.
 
Do you currently have a DOD contract for optics?


Posted By: SD Dog
Date Posted: April/07/2010 at 11:08









Agree RD with the 4a line of thought, if the 3, 6, & 9:00 were made thicker on the outer edge by double, eye would be drawn to the center at 1x, but they would still leave the center open for precision work at 4x.  Very nice Chris.

Good pics Jon.






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If nobody ever said anything unless he knew what he was talking about, a ghastly hush would descend upon the earth. AP Herbert

Stupidity & ignorance have been the foundation for many certainties.


Posted By: ccoker
Date Posted: April/07/2010 at 11:15
any chance of a 1.5-6x42 or a 2-7?



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www.TacticalGunReview.com

Pro Staff - Silencer Shop

http://tacticalgunreview.com



Posted By: Chris Farris
Date Posted: April/07/2010 at 11:17
Originally posted by topbrass topbrass wrote:

Originally posted by Chris Farris Chris Farris wrote:

 
This scope came about soley for the purpose of getting our soldiers a high quality scope at an affordable price that is simple to use....if the head fits in a circle...shoot!  The way your brain works changes drastically when people are shooting at you.  FFP in this scope is to remove one less process that the brain has to perform in combat.
 
Do you currently have a DOD contract for optics?
 
No, we sell large numbers of SS scopes to individual bases but not on contract.  The 1-4x came about for individual soldiers buying their own gear.  I cringe every time I see an order for a MILLETT DMS going to an APO.  I talk to a lot of these guys on the phone and via e-mail.  They really want something simple like an ACOG reticle but in a 1-4x.  These guys do not get formal optics training and do not know how to use a mil scale and most of them do not want to learn.  They want a simple reticle that matches the round they are using.


Posted By: Chris Farris
Date Posted: April/07/2010 at 11:18
Originally posted by ccoker ccoker wrote:

any chance of a 1.5-6x42 or a 2-7?

 
Not at this time.  Next is the 5ish to 20ish by 50ish.


Posted By: SD Dog
Date Posted: April/07/2010 at 11:23
Originally posted by Chris Farris Chris Farris wrote:

Originally posted by ccoker ccoker wrote:

any chance of a 1.5-6x42 or a 2-7?

 
Not at this time.  Next is the 5ish to 20ish by 50ish.


Oh Boy!!!!  Not even going to ask about a date, because it would only hurt me.


-------------
If nobody ever said anything unless he knew what he was talking about, a ghastly hush would descend upon the earth. AP Herbert

Stupidity & ignorance have been the foundation for many certainties.


Posted By: topbrass
Date Posted: April/07/2010 at 12:28
Originally posted by Chris Farris Chris Farris wrote:

Originally posted by topbrass topbrass wrote:

Originally posted by Chris Farris Chris Farris wrote:

 
This scope came about soley for the purpose of getting our soldiers a high quality scope at an affordable price that is simple to use....if the head fits in a circle...shoot!  The way your brain works changes drastically when people are shooting at you.  FFP in this scope is to remove one less process that the brain has to perform in combat.
 
Do you currently have a DOD contract for optics?
 
No, we sell large numbers of SS scopes to individual bases but not on contract.  The 1-4x came about for individual soldiers buying their own gear.  I cringe every time I see an order for a MILLETT DMS going to an APO.  I talk to a lot of these guys on the phone and via e-mail.  They really want something simple like an ACOG reticle but in a 1-4x.  These guys do not get formal optics training and do not know how to use a mil scale and most of them do not want to learn.  They want a simple reticle that matches the round they are using.
 
Thanks Chris!  Keep up the good work!


Posted By: M25BeastShooter
Date Posted: April/07/2010 at 20:26

This would make an awsome package for my DEA issued Rock River.  Jus make the Illuminated reticle large enough for CQB.  The 1-4 power would make this the perfect Federal Agent scope as we might be working a search warrant at 6:00 am in some row house and then the next day covering a weed field in the county.  Can't wait to see the final. 

 
If this one performs as well as the 100 10X42 SS I sent to Iraq in 2003 it will be a winner!


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Goblin Hunter


Posted By: topbrass
Date Posted: April/07/2010 at 21:27
What would be cool on a 1-4x FFP is a SFP 2 or 4 moa red dot that comes on automatically at 1-1.5x.  Make one of those and I would pay $700 for it!


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: April/07/2010 at 22:36
I think some of you have missed the point of this scope being FFP - and that being an exceptionally good thing.  
 
Here is why ---   Most scopes with a balistic reticles are second focal plane reticles so when you use any other power except the highest power the only thing that works is the center X and the hold over marks are worthles at all powers other than the maximum power. 
Not so with FFP.  While one might not use 1x for range finding one would be well served to have the known hold over marks strike the known distance target at any power you could set the scope on.  ---  idiot proof is a good thing under extreme stress ----  Who knows what power your scope will be on when a enemy combatant  starts shooting at you  from 400 yds while a second threat is at 200 yds.   With FFP the hold over marks remain true at all powers.  It is not so much about range finding as it is about placing the bullet on target rapidly at known distances  no matter what power you have the scope adjusted to. You dont have to think about it or have some magic formula to get on target right now.   Having a FFP balistic reticle scopes is something that everybody making balistic reticles should have been doing.  
 
Note: if you are at 1x you are anticipating an engagement under 50 yds people are built up and down and and the whole illuminated reticle will be within center mass.  But what if your need immediately changes to acquiring a 400 yd target with no time to adjust power  you shoot or you die - wouldnt it be nice to have this FFP and to know that the 400 yd mark is the correct hold over to strike the 400 yd target.   
 
While I was in Texas at SWFA I got a look at the fixed 6x prototype and I think that will be a winner also - it is the old style 1/4 moa style - looks just like a 10x rear focus model but in 6x so it will be maximum brightness in low light and be a bargain. 
 


-------------

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: billyburl2
Date Posted: April/07/2010 at 23:49
Originally posted by topbrass topbrass wrote:

What would be cool on a 1-4x FFP is a SFP 2 or 4 moa red dot that comes on automatically at 1-1.5x.  Make one of those and I would pay $700 for it!
The only reticle like this, that I haave seen, is on the Premier Reticles 1-8x24. That is a $2700 scope, not $700. But what the mailto:h@ll - h@ll , if you are going to dream, dream big!!!Bucky

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If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?


Posted By: Trays 7940
Date Posted: April/08/2010 at 17:53
ExcellentExcellentExcellent

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http://militarysignatures.com" rel="nofollow">

I don't shoot innocent animals, just the one's who look guilty.


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: April/08/2010 at 20:04
Range Report


So, I finally made it to the range today, here are some pictures.





Ar 4X


At 1X


Suppressors really get the ammo in the magazine dirty







-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/08/2010 at 20:14
Thanks for the report, Jeff!
 
Chris, will the upper illumination intensity settings be tweaked on the production models so it's fully daylight compatible?


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: billyburl2
Date Posted: April/08/2010 at 20:15
Looks good RC! Thanks for the review, and great pics!

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If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: April/08/2010 at 20:36
Hard to tell from the photo but did you feel like the circles were heavy enough or should they be heavier?    Thanks for the nice review.

-------------

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: April/08/2010 at 21:04
It occurs to me, since this is a prototype, that a review might not be what Chris wants just now.
 
 
At this time, I will leave up the pictures but take down the review, till Chris gives the OK for details.
 
At 4X, the circles are heavy enough.  At 1X, the circles, like the lines of the cross hairs, are just too thin.  It's a tough balance between making the reticle usable at all powers verses beautiful at one power at the expense of others.
 
More to follow.
 
If you need a 1-4, I'd wait a bit and take a look at this once it hits the market.   The glass is quite good, the scope has great features, and plenty are discussing the reticle, it will be right when it hits the market.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: topbrass
Date Posted: April/08/2010 at 21:15
Wouldnt a 2 moa red dot superimposed on that recticle at 1x be fantastic?
 
Oh!  I already suggested that.
 
I still like the idea.
 
Very good pictures!  Thanks!


Posted By: Chris Farris
Date Posted: April/08/2010 at 22:35
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Thanks for the report, Jeff!
 
Chris, will the upper illumination intensity settings be tweaked on the production models so it's fully daylight compatible?
 
We're working on it but it is more involved, I've ran into some Patents that we need to consider.


Posted By: billyburl2
Date Posted: April/08/2010 at 23:15
Wow... I am not gonna say it... I promise!

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If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?


Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: April/08/2010 at 23:28
That looks great Chris and company.... I can't wait for the production models and the reticles you finally do choose.

-------------
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: April/09/2010 at 00:31
Cool


-------------
”Be curious, not judge mental.”    -Walt Whitman


Posted By: S197
Date Posted: April/09/2010 at 00:33

Nice wouldnt mind having one on top my .458win mag. Damn im never going to be able to save up enough to put a NF on my .50!!!



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"He was one of God's own prototypes: a high-powered mutant never even considered for mass-production. Too weird to live, too rare to die."


Posted By: Rath
Date Posted: April/09/2010 at 19:57
RC, thanks for the info. THis looks like a nice little optic that fills a definite gap in the market (relative to price points). I already have a 1-4x24 Accupoint which I love but it is missing holdover points on the reticle. 

Rath


Posted By: Jon A
Date Posted: April/11/2010 at 21:34
I finally made it to the range today.  Here are some shots:

I tested on two different AR's:



And although it's not exactly the type of rifle this scope is meant for, my 6.5 is the most accurate so it had to get some playtime as well:



And it didn't disappoint.  Here are two groups from 300 yds, measuring 1.7" and 2.2":



Pretty decent for a 4X at that range.

The glass was very impressive.  I was actually able to see a couple 22 caliber holes at 100 yds through it.  Not many and not very well naturally, but that was pretty impressive for a 4X.

4X at 100 yds:



4X at 300 yds:



1X:




I can't wait to get my hands on one with the new reticle.  Other than that, I'm very impressed so far.  A couple more beauty shots:











Posted By: billyburl2
Date Posted: April/11/2010 at 21:42
Great pics!

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If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?


Posted By: topbrass
Date Posted: April/11/2010 at 21:50
Looks great!


Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: April/11/2010 at 22:09
Very nice Jon, keep the reviews and pics coming... thanks again!!!  Excellent     Thunbs Up

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”Be curious, not judge mental.”    -Walt Whitman


Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: April/11/2010 at 23:15
Looks like it was made for that rifle to me Jon.
Great pics. Thanks for the time and effort guys.


-------------
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: SD Dog
Date Posted: April/12/2010 at 08:47
Very nice Jon.  Very respectable 300yr groups with a 4x.  Have to ask though, your range underneath a train trestle?  What is all the wood for?

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If nobody ever said anything unless he knew what he was talking about, a ghastly hush would descend upon the earth. AP Herbert

Stupidity & ignorance have been the foundation for many certainties.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: April/12/2010 at 08:56
Looks like its to catch fliers. like Neil's used car tire lot he has over his range

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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: April/12/2010 at 09:18
With the reticle squared away, the thing is a winner for sure!

There have been requests for all manner of changes to the reticle.  For me, I'd be OK with making the posts at 3,6,and 9 o'clock heavier and be done.  Illumination bleeds a bit at the top end, but I don't particularly care, if it is bright enough out to need to top end, it'll be bright enough to not notice the bleed.


For an M4, it is just about the perfect magnifying scope.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: Jon A
Date Posted: April/12/2010 at 13:32
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Looks like its to catch fliers.

Yup.  That range is actually in the middle of an urban area.  It's classified as 100% "contained" or something like that.  From the bench position unless you have a 50 cal or something that will shoot through those timbers, it's impossible for you to shoot a bullet into the air.  Doing so would likely land it in somebody's yard.


Posted By: topbrass
Date Posted: April/12/2010 at 13:40

Thats a common setup for ranges even in rural areas.  Containment is essential. 

I have seen baffles that are boxes that contain pea gravel, and some are just several layers of plywood, or solid timber. 


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: April/15/2010 at 07:07
Well Chris, its been a few days and a few test look to have been done, Can we get a update on the progress and changes we may see?  Timeline for availiblity?
I'll say it.........PRETTY PLEASE

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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: Chris Farris
Date Posted: April/15/2010 at 11:05
Things are going well, feedback is coming in rapidly from the T&E team.  I'll tell you more once it is finalized.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: April/15/2010 at 11:07

Great!  any news on other products you can divulge?



-------------
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: Blackbird97
Date Posted: April/17/2010 at 19:09
This looks sweet...any word on a price? 



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