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30/375 Ruger?

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Category: Firearms, Bows, and Ammunition
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Printed Date: November/17/2018 at 21:51


Topic: 30/375 Ruger?
Posted By: sakomato
Subject: 30/375 Ruger?
Date Posted: February/10/2010 at 20:09
I'm seriously thinking about rechambering a 300 win mag into a 30/375 Ruger.  Here is a diagram of each
 
and here is the reamer you can rent from 4D
 
The 300 win mag has a case capacity of 87 gr and the 30/375 Ruger is 93.6 gr.
 
My goal is to shoot a 200 gr Accubond at an honest 3000 fps.  Very hard to do with a 300 win mag and keep the primer pockets in your brass.  Also do not want to have a muzzle brake which I would have to have with a 300RUM which has a case capacity of 110 grs (too much).
 
The reamer will come very close to cleaning up the chamber completely but it will have to be set back a thread or two because of the distance to the shoulder/neck differences.  No refinishing of the action or barrel needed.  Should be just over $200.00 or so.
 
Dies are the biggest problem.  After some research I have learned that the best way to neck down the 375 Ruger to 30 caliber is with a 338RCM FL die as an interim reducing die and then finish to 30 caliber with a 300RCM FL die (neck dies won't work).
 
The  rifle is a Beretta Mato which has a Lothar Walter barrel, so it is definitely worth saving.
 
Just throwing this out there for comment and to keep you guys informed.


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Guns only have 2 enemies, rust and politicians



Replies:
Posted By: GLZ
Date Posted: February/10/2010 at 20:53
Why not just do a 300 Dakota? Brass, Dies and reamers are all available. The extra .012 will clean up the belt area. If you are worried about the slightly larger rim diameter; trim 300 ultra mag brass to length and then use the Dakota dies. Or how about short chambering a 300 Ultra to what ever water capacity you want. Trim the brass and use ultra mag dies.


Posted By: GLZ
Date Posted: February/10/2010 at 20:57
You still need to set the barrel back with the Dakota, But with the ultra mag based you could set the length to clean up the chamber with no set back. Assuming the throat is good.


Posted By: sakomato
Date Posted: February/10/2010 at 21:18
The gunsmith wanted to do a 30/338RUM by running a 300RUM reamer in just deep enough.  But that is still too much case capacity.  I know I could download but that just doesn't seem right.  I already have a 338RUM and do not want a 300RUM.
 
I looked at the 300 Dakota and it has a case capacity of ~97 grs but the bolt face would probably require some work and the brass is very expensive at about $2.00 apiece while the 375 Ruger brass is less than $1.00 each.  I am just about to receive a rebarrel in 375 Ruger so have a hundred pieces of that brass already.


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Guns only have 2 enemies, rust and politicians


Posted By: GLZ
Date Posted: February/10/2010 at 22:01
I'm not talking a 30/338 RUM. SHORTER. You set the length to get the capacity you want. By going to ~2.650 case you will clean the chamber and end up with the capacity you want. I don't know the thread pitch on the Mato but to clean up the belt area is probably going to take 4-5 threads setback. If you have a tight chamber and a loose reamer you might get by with only a couple of threads.
 Then again if you use the Dakota and make the brass for RUM you take care of the bolt face issue and cheap brass.
   Are you using a local smith? (Houston)


Posted By: sakomato
Date Posted: February/10/2010 at 22:18
No, I am planning on sending it to my usual gunsmith in Salt Lake City.  He has done a rebarrel in 6.5 rem mag, rebarrel to 338RUM and has just finished a 375 Ruger rebarrel which I should get soon.
 
The barrel should be 1 in 10 and the head clearance on new 300 win mag cases is pretty loose at .019" but most belted magnums are loose at the shoulder.
 
"Then again if you use the Dakota and make the brass for RUM you take care of the bolt face issue and cheap brass."
 
You lost me there.


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Guns only have 2 enemies, rust and politicians


Posted By: SD Dog
Date Posted: February/11/2010 at 09:43
Originally posted by sakomato sakomato wrote:

The gunsmith wanted to do a 30/338RUM by running a 300RUM reamer in just deep enough.  But that is still too much case capacity.  I know I could download but that just doesn't seem right.  I already have a 338RUM and do not want a 300RUM.


Agree, it you wanted that, just by a 300RUM.  The .375 Ruger is on a standard length action correct?  Sounds like interesting project.  Please keep us posted.



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If nobody ever said anything unless he knew what he was talking about, a ghastly hush would descend upon the earth. AP Herbert

Stupidity & ignorance have been the foundation for many certainties.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: February/11/2010 at 09:47
the .300 and .30-378 wby will get you 3000fps with 200gr bullets

here are the results 180gr bullet first 3000fps .507 b.c
RangeVelocityImpactDropToFEnergyDrift
03000-0.50035970
100280702.230.1131491.02
2002626-3.948.90.2227562.8
3002454-12.9320.630.3324075.89
4002289-27.7438.170.46209410.42
5002130-49.2262.380.6181316.52
here is that same 3000fps but with a 200gr bullet .588 b.c, the energy at 500yds is fairly significant(400ftlbs) difference the speeds are about 100fps.
RangeVelocityImpactDropToFEnergyDrift
03000-0.50039970
100283302.220.1135640.93
2002676-3.858.790.2131802.45
3002526-12.5820.240.3328345.07
4002380-26.7937.170.4525168.88
5002241-47.1760.260.58223013.96



-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Texas
Date Posted: February/11/2010 at 10:30

sakomato, excellent project! Is the magazine clip on the Mato too short to accept full-length 375H&H-based cartridges? If it would, 300 Roy with no freebore would be a lot more convenient because of brass and die availability/price - but if the clip is too short this 30-375R wildcat is a very cool way to get the velocity you want in the shorter package in my opinion. With the LW barrel this should be a shooter! How does it shoot now as a 300 WinMag? And can you tell us your smith's name?

Texas


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"There are some things which cannot be learned quickly and time, which is all we have, must be paid heavily for their acquiring. They are the very simplest things..." Ernest Hemingway


Posted By: sakomato
Date Posted: February/11/2010 at 16:39
Originally posted by Texas Texas wrote:

sakomato, excellent project! Is the magazine clip on the Mato too short to accept full-length 375H&H-based cartridges? If it would, 300 Roy with no freebore would be a lot more convenient because of brass and die availability/price - but if the clip is too short this 30-375R wildcat is a very cool way to get the velocity you want in the shorter package in my opinion. With the LW barrel this should be a shooter! How does it shoot now as a 300 WinMag? And can you tell us your smith's name?

Texas
 
Hey Texas, the magazine in the Mato is a full 3.70" which is large when compared to most magnum boxes that are 3.4".  The 375 Ruger was designed to fit in a 3.4" box which is why my rebarrel in that caliber on a Winchester Post 64 will work just fine.  Right now the 375 Ruger reamers are some of the most popular as many are discovering that all those 264's, 7 mags, 300 win mags and 338 win mags are great candidate for rebarreling to the 375 Ruger, no bolt face work or magazine constriction.  The 375 Ruger offers a little more case capacity than the 375 H & H as an added bonus.
 
Do not want any Roy calibers, rounded shoulders, the un-needed belt and expensive cases.  If I set the lands on a rechamber or rebarrel to take away the long throat then there is a possibility of injuring someone if they put a factory Weatherby cartridge in it.  I wouldn't, but I'm not going to live forever.
 
The 300 win mag shoots great sometimes
 
and is always no more than a 1 1/2" shooter.
 
The gunsmith is Guy Malmborg at Lock, Stock and Barrel in Salt Lake City.  He posts a  lot over on AccurateReloading as Westpac.  Not a custom rifle builder but a very good technician and gun mechanic.  On old marine that be very opinionated but will listen if you convince him you have something worth while to listen to.


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Guns only have 2 enemies, rust and politicians


Posted By: Texas
Date Posted: February/11/2010 at 19:48
Nice group. You make good points, I see you have thought this through once or twice... this project really makes sense to me when I consider your reasoning. I'm thinking this one will really be good, and you may be on the leading edge of a trend. It makes a lot more sense to me than the 300RCM, for sure. I'm just not in love with short action bolt guns I guess. Judging from how the rifle works now, there is every reason to believe it will be a great shooter in the new wildcat chambering. Best of luck with it - keep us posted on how it works!
 
I have heard good things about LS&B, this additional info is helpful to me. I am always rolling rechambering this or that rifle around in my head. What kind of lead time are you working with?


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"There are some things which cannot be learned quickly and time, which is all we have, must be paid heavily for their acquiring. They are the very simplest things..." Ernest Hemingway


Posted By: sakomato
Date Posted: February/11/2010 at 21:33
He is not real good with lead time and stays real busy.  The Pac-Nor 3 groove barrel has been at his place since last August and I should get it next week.
 
My old man used to say anything worth having was worth waiting for though.


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Guns only have 2 enemies, rust and politicians


Posted By: Texas
Date Posted: March/11/2010 at 10:16

Good morning, sakomato.

Did you decide to proceed on this build?


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"There are some things which cannot be learned quickly and time, which is all we have, must be paid heavily for their acquiring. They are the very simplest things..." Ernest Hemingway


Posted By: sakomato
Date Posted: March/11/2010 at 21:19
I did figure out how to size the 375 Ruger case neck down to a 30 caliber:
  • put a good outside chamfer on a 375 Ruger case
  • size the neck only with a 375 Ruger FL die with the expander removed
  • size the neck only with a 338 RCM FL die
  • size the neck only with a 300 RCM Neck die

It turns out to be a good looking case and exactly what I expected

300 win mag............30/375............375 Ruger
 
30/375............375 Ruger
 
So I have been communicating with the Gunsmith.  He says that June is his least busy month.  Since he will only have 2 weeks to use the rented reamer it is necessary to get all the ducks in a row.  He wants 3 or 4 resized cases.
 
The freebore on the reamer is .170" so I need to get the gun out and see if the reamer freebore will clean up the 300 win mag freebore.
 
Meanwhile my 375 Ruger finally got here so I have been focusing on it and working up loads with RL17 in it and my 30-06.  Getting excellent results BTW.
 
Patience grasshopper!


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Guns only have 2 enemies, rust and politicians


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: March/11/2010 at 21:42
man that sure does seem like a lot of work robert, i hope it turns out really well for you.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: sakomato
Date Posted: March/11/2010 at 23:13
Once you go through the original resizing of the necks down, the reloading will be normal with just a neck size with the 300 RCM die and sizing the case body & pushing the shoulder back with the 375 Ruger die.  Won't be much trouble until I have to start over with new cases.
 
I might take one of the fired cases and send it off to Lee for them to make a Lee Collet and then the sizing will get real easy.
 
Is it worth it?  Probably.  Will be unique and will be a supercharged 300 win mag without a belt.  The 375 Ruger I just got from the gunsmith had .002" headspace so I'm sure this one will have very little headspace also.  That will lead to a longer case life.  There will be a little more velocity which is what the 300 win mag needs with the 200 gr bullets.
 
 


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Guns only have 2 enemies, rust and politicians


Posted By: Bigdaddy0381
Date Posted: March/12/2010 at 06:45
I'm guessing there in not a die made for the 30/375? Sounds interesting. A buddy of mine is stuck on building a 257-300 RUM for some reason. He says it will blast a 115gr bullet at 3900/4000 fps with a solid bullet.

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P&Z Firearms , Pro gun cleanings and gun repair and wood refinishing.

Ecclesiastes 10:2


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: March/12/2010 at 08:30
id like do either a 6.5-.378wby or 7mm-.378wby myself

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: SD Dog
Date Posted: March/12/2010 at 08:53
Sako, do you need to turn the necks once you get them down to .30?  Are they too thick?

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If nobody ever said anything unless he knew what he was talking about, a ghastly hush would descend upon the earth. AP Herbert

Stupidity & ignorance have been the foundation for many certainties.


Posted By: Texas
Date Posted: March/12/2010 at 09:19
I really don't see any downside to this build. The Mato in 30-375R will be a true gem of an all around hunting rifle, and I am kinda green-eyed about it. I don't have any Mato rifles!
(Laffin)
 
Thanks for the progress report on this wildcat rifle, sakomato. I would say the smith you are using did you right on the 375R he chambered for you, 0.002" headspace is all good. Please keep us posted on progress as you move forward.
 
By the way, you don't happen to know if the reamer company has a 338-375R reamer available, do you?
 
Texas


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"There are some things which cannot be learned quickly and time, which is all we have, must be paid heavily for their acquiring. They are the very simplest things..." Ernest Hemingway


Posted By: sakomato
Date Posted: March/12/2010 at 21:12
Originally posted by SD Dog SD Dog wrote:

Sako, do you need to turn the necks once you get them down to .30?  Are they too thick?
 
Well that's a good question.  The final neck thickness is ~.015"
 
which is the same as the original 375 Ruger case neck thickness.  So the OD of the neck should be .308"+.015"+.015"=.338".  That would be perfect for the neck that the 300 win mag chamber now has since the OD of a fired case is .341", but the reamer drawings
 
says it has a neck dimension of .337".  So I need to ask the gunsmith if that means that the reamer neck will not re-dimension the neck at all and the finished 30/375 would have a chamber neck of .341" or .337".  If when he sets the barrel back a couple of threads and the neck gets recut (I don't see how but I am not a gunsmith) to that reamer dimension then I will have to turn the necks.
 
The necks did lengthen .010" though
 
the ID is .004" less than bullet diameter
 
Hey bigdaddy and pyro, 257/300RUM, 6.5/378Wby, 7/378Wby  Shocked??!!  I don't think they make a powder slow enough.  Not to mention that they would be real barrel burners.  500 rounds through one of those barrels and it would be toast, literally.  Those slow burning powders ganging up trying to get out of that little bore hole act just like a cutting torch and will burn one quick
 
but it is a personal choice.  Running a 200 gr 30 caliber bullet at 3000 fps floats my boat while zipping a 115 gr bullet at 4000 fps just doesn't.  Guess I'm an old fogey.
 
Texas, can't find anyone who has a 338/375 Ruger reamer but they would probably make you one, not that costly.  It should be about 1/2 way between the 338 win mag and the 338 RUM.  Having owned both of those I would say the 338 win mag can move a 225 gr bullet at 2800 fps +/- and the 338 RUM at 3100 fps +/-, so I would imagine that the 338/375 Ruger would push a 225 at close to 2950 fps or so.  Not a bad place to be.  If you shot the 200 gr or 210 gr bullet, the 338/375 Ruger would be able to push those bullets faster than a 30/375 Ruger due to having a larger bullet base to exert pressure on.  So 3000 to 3050 fps would seem to be realistic.  210 gr TTSX at 3000 fps? Not a bad place to be either.  Might have to have a muzzle brake or make a heavy rifle though, recoil would be worse than the 30 caliber.
 
It would be a legitimate wildcat though.  This is my impression of relative case capacities which depend somewhat upon which brass manufacturer
 
338 win mag ~85.6 grs
300 win mag ~89 grs
30/375 Ruger ~93.6 grs
338/375 Ruger ~95 grs ?
375 H & H ~95 grs
375 Ruger ~100 grs
338 RUM ~111 grs
300 RUM ~115 grs


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Guns only have 2 enemies, rust and politicians


Posted By: SD Dog
Date Posted: March/13/2010 at 09:13
Very nice Sako.  Wondered where the extra brass went and the neck lengthening would be it.  Would be nice if the reamer end up with the save fired OD.  

-------------
If nobody ever said anything unless he knew what he was talking about, a ghastly hush would descend upon the earth. AP Herbert

Stupidity & ignorance have been the foundation for many certainties.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: March/15/2010 at 10:20
i just got an rcbs catalog with custom shop flyer, and rcbs makes a 6.5-.378wby set of diesShocked

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: BillyWayne
Date Posted: March/15/2010 at 10:47
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

i just got an rcbs catalog with custom shop flyer, and rcbs makes a 6.5-.378wby set of diesShocked
 
How fast would a 85 grain Sierra HP go in that round??  Could be a nice looooong range varmint cartridge.


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John 11:35
The're taking the hobbits to Isengard!!


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: March/15/2010 at 10:50
im not sure the bullet would stay together at that speed, it would be over 4000fps!

now i need to find a company that makes the reamer and buy a 30-378 wby. good luck!


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: SD Dog
Date Posted: June/03/2010 at 11:11
Sako, any update on this project?


Posted By: trigger29
Date Posted: June/03/2010 at 15:59
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

im not sure the bullet would stay together at that speed, it would be over 4000fps!

Mine would.

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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


Posted By: sakomato
Date Posted: June/03/2010 at 19:37
Originally posted by SD Dog SD Dog wrote:

Sako, any update on this project?
 
Supposed to put together an e-mail listing all the work I want done to the gun so he can give me a close-to-exact price.
 
reaming
set the barrel back
trigger job
squaring the action
???
 
shouldn't need any refinishing since he says he can do it without marring the finish.
 
His schedule is still full but I might send it to him this month or next.  Once I send it he has to rent the reamer and has 10 days to get it back so it should proceed quickly after that.
 
Going to be a fall and winter project as far as load development which is just fine cause it is too hot to shoot in the summer down here in Houston.


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Guns only have 2 enemies, rust and politicians


Posted By: Top Cat
Date Posted: October/21/2010 at 15:29
This looks like an interesting round, but as anything other than a test round, it would be hard for me to personally justify spending upwards of $1000 or more in custom work and dies and such to gain 6gr of powder space.

As an alternative in exploring diminishing returns, one could improve the 300 WM case and get a few grains more space, but it's the ballistic equivalent of splitting hairs... there is no downside to the 300 RUM; simpler, and would run cooler and at less pressure...that is a significant improvement,  but why bother...?

300 WM is already plenty capable. A 200gr bullet at 2950 if memory serves, and at long range, where these rounds are actually useful, any velocity difference between these rounds is negligible... as is recoil...they are all candidates for a break.

Muzzle velocity is not necessarily the goal in any event, the easiest way to achieve real LR ballistic performance is to run a higher BC bullet. That's a real world gain that is free...no machining, special reamers, dies, waiting, etc.

Compare the ballistic charts on the 200 AB and the 208 A-Max or 210 Berger. Even with a slower initial velocity, by 1000 yards they are flying faster.

TC


Posted By: sakomato
Date Posted: October/21/2010 at 15:59
My whole purpose behind the 30/375 Ruger would be to move the 200 gr Accubond at an honest 3000 fps.  I have shot the 200 gr AB extensively in the 300 win mag and it is not easy (at least in the 9 rifles I reload for) to get over 2900 fps.  My load now is at 2880 fps or so.  I have pushed further but cases don't last as long and accuracity deteriorated.
 
I also reload and shoot 3 different 300RUM's and the powder capacity increase and associated recoil is exponential.  A muzzle brake becomes mandatory (at least for me).  This gun would be shootable without a muzzle brake IMO.
 
Since I have the gun and only rechambering is necessary (~$200.00), have the cases (have a 375 Ruger) and have spent maybe $50.00 on dies then I don't see the $1,000 price tag.
 
Just haven't got around to it yet.  Trying to get through Obama economics (working harder making less) but will probably send it off this winter.
 
Just for fun!


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Guns only have 2 enemies, rust and politicians


Posted By: magshooter1
Date Posted: October/22/2010 at 07:46
Buy an 8mm MagDevil Just Kidding

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It's not the size of the campfire; it's the quality of the company.


Posted By: 300S&W
Date Posted: October/22/2010 at 08:07
  "Just for fun!"
 
   That's what it's ALL about!


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"I ain't got time to bleed!"


Posted By: Top Cat
Date Posted: October/22/2010 at 15:32
By all means...have fun...

30-375 Ruger is a great design and will certainly perform well...and honestly, I do see it as a better design than the belted Mags; but with slightly less powder capacity than a 300 Weatherby, it's an incremental step more equivalent to an Improved 300 Win than a significant upgrade.

3000fps is doable in the 300 RUM and is more in that realm. I don't expect that 6gr of case capacity to give 150 fps increase at the same pressures.

Expected velocity gain is 25% in relation to the increase in chamber capacity at the same pressure. 6gr is approximately a 7% increase in case capacity and that translates to about 50 FPS at the same pressure. You might be able to run the Ruger case a little hotter or use a slower powder to hit your goal.

Regardless, I don't see any real world differences in 100-150 FPS; all of these rounds are more than capable of throwing lead at good velocity in my experience. It just depends on what you want to use the round for, but all this is largely academic...

The main point I wanted to add to this discussion is that the performance increase you are seeking can be achieved by using a higher BC bullet:

200 AB 3000 FPS

Range   Velocity  Energy
(yd)      (ft/s)      (ft•lbs)
      0    3000.0    3996.1
  100    2843.9    3591.0
  200    2693.1    3220.2
  300    2547.1    2880.7
  400    2405.8    2569.9
  500    2268.9    2285.8
  600    2136.4    2026.6
  700    2008.5    1791.2
  800    1885.4    1578.3
  900    1767.5    1387.1
1000    1655.3    1216.7
1100    1549.5    1066.1
1200    1450.9    934.7
1300    1360.2    821.5
1400    1278.5    725.8
1500    1206.9    646.7
1600    1146.0    583.1
1700    1095.3    532.7


208 A-Max 2850 FPS

Range                  Velocity       Energy            
(yd)                      (ft/s)           (ft•lbs)            
      0                    2850.0        3750.8            
  100                    2712.7        3398.2            
  200                    2579.6        3072.7            
  300                    2450.2        2772.2            
  400                    2324.5        2495.2            
  500                    2202.5        2240.0            
  600                    2084.1        2005.7            
  700                    1969.6        1791.3            
  800                    1859.1        1596.0            
  900                    1753.0        1419.0            
1000                    1651.6        1259.7            
1100                    1555.6        1117.4            
1200                    1465.3        991.5            
1300                    1381.6        881.4            
1400                    1305.0        786.5            
1500                    1236.4        706.0            
1600                    1176.5        639.2            
1700                    1125.5        584.9            
1800                    1082.3        541.0            
1900                    1045.7        504.9            
2000                    1014.0        474.8            


200 AB 2880 FPS

Range  Velocity    Energy
(yd)       (ft/s)      (ft•lbs)
      0    2880.0    3682.8
  100    2728.0    3304.3
  200    2580.9    2957.7
  300    2438.5    2640.3
  400    2300.6    2350.1
  500    2167.1    2085.2
  600    2038.1 &nbs



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