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Made in China?

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Category: Scopes
Forum Name: Rifle Scopes
Forum Description: Centerfire long gun scopes
URL: http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=21779
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Topic: Made in China?
Posted By: GaryO
Subject: Made in China?
Date Posted: February/01/2010 at 14:41
Things seem to change so often; is there any way to keep track of which popular scopes are made by the Chicoms? Thanks...



Replies:
Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: February/01/2010 at 14:44
Good luck getting that from them.

Most people haven't yet noticed the "Made in the USA" sticker NOT on Leupold boxes.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: GaryO
Date Posted: February/01/2010 at 14:48
However, Leupold does state that the reborn Redfield scopes are made in Oregon right along side the Leupold scopes(I think).


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: February/01/2010 at 14:52
Originally posted by GaryO GaryO wrote:

Things seem to change so often; is there any way to keep track of which popular scopes are made by the Chicoms? Thanks...

Not easily.  However, if there is a particular model you are wondering about, someone might know.

ILya


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http://www.darklordofoptics.com - www.darklordofoptics.com
https://rumble.com/c/DLO - Rumble Video Channel


Posted By: Randall45
Date Posted: February/02/2010 at 15:57
Most scopes are being made somewhere in Asia.I hate to think that the Leupold is made entirely in China.Some high end scopes are being made to there specs at a big savings in these factories.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: February/02/2010 at 16:19
Originally posted by Randall45 Randall45 wrote:

I hate to think that the Leupold is made entirely in China.
 
They aren't.  Every metal and mechanical component (Tube, erector ass, turrets) is made in Oregon.  Their lenses aren't.  They get their glass from various sources in Asia, which may or may not include China.  They aren't forthcoming about where they get it, only to say that it comes from multiple Asian sources.  This is nothing new.  There are very few consumer items made entirely in the US anymore.  Even stuff that says "made in USA" on the product usually has at least some components made elsewhere (i.e. screws, o-rings, etc.).


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: February/02/2010 at 17:33
Ouch  I think I got a made in china ---  screw ---- one time.    StareShocked

-------------

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: HuntMaster
Date Posted: February/02/2010 at 18:14
  There are very few consumer items made entirely in the US anymore.  Even stuff that says "made in USA" on the product usually has at least some components made elsewhere (i.e. screws, o-rings, etc.).
[/QUOTE]
 
This holds true for German products, also. It is not possible to know where every component comes from.
Could you imagine a Swarovski factory that produced the metal pieces, rubber o-rings and eye- cups, chemical coatings, and even the nitrogen gas that goes in to their products? 
Sounds dumb to mention all this, but there are those out there that believe all these items are produced by the same company,and even same location.


Posted By: budperm
Date Posted: February/02/2010 at 20:10
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Ouch  I think I got a made in china ---  screw ---- one time.    StareShocked
Counter-clockwise to tighten??

-------------
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson





Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: February/03/2010 at 00:46
Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Ouch  I think I got a made in china ---  screw ---- one time.    StareShocked
Counter-clockwise to tighten??
 
Not sure it fell out of my CRKT pocket knife before I knew there was an issue with the way they attached the blade to the handle.  Now I have half a screw so the other half is always loose.  What do you do with a knife with a screw looseWhatever.  I think I got screwed by the chinese, and it looked like such a good knife,  didnt last two month before it fell apart.  Bet their scopes look good up untill you have them a month.Shocked


-------------

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: budperm
Date Posted: February/03/2010 at 09:46
You can bet on it.  WE (Black & decker--Dewalt Power tools) have all our hand tools
made to our specs in China and Taiwan.  Same for the Chargers and Battery pack modules.  The Chinese are great at copying but their culture inhibits free thought so innovation is few and far between there.  WE are extremely diligent in specifying and inspecting our product.
AS long as you your looking they are your best friend and do hi quality work.  As soon as you turn your back.... they have a tendency to start cutting corners to save money and reduce production time.  At first this was a real battle cause they are co-operative to your face but not so much behind your back.  We finally won the war by rejecting several hundred and sometimes thousands of sub-standard  product refusing to bear any cost ourselves.  That wised them up.  Having the clout helps.   They make about 1.5 million Dewalt chargers annually so we have the clout!  They were our sole source and tested us on this.  Now they aren't a sole source and it rocked their world! They used to make 2 million chargers a year.  Loosing 25% of that product got their attention.
 
Even now we catch them doing stuff like changing the test parameters on the end of line tester to improve 1st time yields.  Seems this is how the plant supervisors are graded
for performance and raises.
 
So yes I would be suspicious of everything made in china that is not 100% USA inspected with a fine tooth comb!


-------------
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson





Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: February/03/2010 at 09:51
bud i hate to be a dick to you, but dewalts batteries suck!!!! they include the charger and  two batteries with a tool and the batteries last a year and then they are junk and then you gotta decide do i wanna spend $100 for new batteries or do i wanna spend $150 and get a new tool charger and two new batteries sorry.

rant off


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: February/03/2010 at 10:29
I have a 12V Dewalt my wife purchased for me one year for my birthday, before we left Kalifornia.  We left Kali in 1998.  Two years ago, the batteries started failing, I replaced one, but both will hold a charge if only for a little while.  I have a much newer 18 V Dewalt now and my wife has a 12V and they have been outstanding.  I've found that the batteries last better if you recharge and rotate them regularly...

-------------
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: February/03/2010 at 10:33
we use ours every day at work, my boss finally decided to try another brand. so far so go it made it through this last construction season without a hitch.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: AstroVic
Date Posted: February/03/2010 at 10:35
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Ouch  I think I got a made in china ---  screw ---- one time.    StareShocked
 
When I first read this post, something entirely different came to mind.  LOL :)


Posted By: budperm
Date Posted: February/03/2010 at 11:37
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

bud i hate to be a dick to you, but dewalts batteries suck!!!! they include the charger and  two batteries with a tool and the batteries last a year and then they are junk and then you gotta decide do i wanna spend $100 for new batteries or do i wanna spend $150 and get a new tool charger and two new batteries sorry.

rant off
Slow down a tad. First are you talking NiCad or Lithium batteries.  Secondly where are you storing them during your winters?  No battery likes extreme cold.  Thirdly all the battery cells are made in Japan not China.  Due to heavy metals (Cadmium) our suppliers (Sony and Sanyo) have been pushing for several years to stop making NiCads.  Europe won't allow them , they use Nickle metal Hydride.  NiCad Cells are a completely mature product, no more development.  Sony stopped supplying us 2 years ago.  Sanyo is ramping down as the equipment dies so does their capacity.  Last year the high end cell we use were discontinued by Sanyo.  The replacement cells CP2500 are highest grade consumer cells available.
How are you using them?  Are you working the packs hard?  Cells are also sensitive to heat.  Overheating will shorten the life of any cell while extreme cold makes them go inert.
 
Now thet good news!  Since 2004 Dewalt tools have carried a 3 year warranty.  I believe the pack carry a two year warranty.  Dewalt has always been sensitive to pack and charger
complaints and issues cause of poosible liability issues.  If you have pack that died in one year, look on line http://www.dewalt.com - www.dewalt.com and find nearest service center.  If none are convenient then call 1-800 Dewalt.  Your will also assuredly get your packs replaced for free!


-------------
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson





Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: February/03/2010 at 11:47
i hate to jack this thread more. we had nicad batteries in 12v and 18v tools, drills saws all type saws and circular saws. we use them to cut pipe and drill holes in plastic septic parts, so they dont abused but the work isnt easy either. we store our electrical tools inside our heated shop during the winter. we got to the point where our boss would go buy 4 new batteries every spring and by fall they would last about 10 min. on a full charge.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: February/03/2010 at 11:49
How about that Toyota recall, and what about global warming?


I'll check back in on this thread in a few days and see where it has wandered to.

Carry on.


-------------
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: February/03/2010 at 12:13
Made in China covers a broad area, but maybe should move to "almost a... g..." if it's not scopes...

-------------
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: budperm
Date Posted: February/03/2010 at 12:34
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

i hate to jack this thread more. we had nicad batteries in 12v and 18v tools, drills saws all type saws and circular saws. we use them to cut pipe and drill holes in plastic septic parts, so they dont abused but the work isnt easy either. we store our electrical tools inside our heated shop during the winter. we got to the point where our boss would go buy 4 new batteries every spring and by fall they would last about 10 min. on a full charge.
No I want to hear this stuff.
 
The recip and circular saws are the two worst tools on batteries.  The recip (sawsall) vibrates the crap out of the batteries and weaken the battery strap welds.  The circular is and largest current drain!  I never like the 18V circular saw, felt it is wimpy!  The 36V circular kicks ass.  However the only tools I like in the 36V line are The Circular saw and the 325FtLB impact gun.  The gun is great for pulling lug nuts in the middle of nowhere!  I am going to venture to say that the short battery life is probably due to heating issues.  Were the pack noticeably warm or hot when they came out of the tool?


-------------
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson





Posted By: budperm
Date Posted: February/03/2010 at 12:37
Yeah you guys are right... Didn't pay attemtion to where it was posted just replied,  go figure!
 
It not like THAT hasn't happened before! Embarrased


-------------
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson





Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: February/03/2010 at 12:39
the drill got the most use, we bought a wacker concrete saw and put a fiber blade on it for cutting pipe.

no the battery packs werent hot.


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: budperm
Date Posted: February/03/2010 at 12:50
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

the drill got the most use, we bought a wacker concrete saw and put a fiber blade on it for cutting pipe.

no the battery packs weren't hot.
Was the Drill a 12V model?  If so that would explain the short run time.
the 12v platform when it first came out was made with top-line cells.  It was quick found
to be wanting in a commercial environment for the very reason your complaining about.
The motors were heavy duty motors to be able to perform but the packs could not supply the required current levels.  14.4 and 18V tools quickly replaced the 12V platform and no new development was done on those packs.  Believe it or not the average Dewalt cordless drill draws between 10 and 60 amps.  If the drill were a 14.4 or better yet an 18V you should have gotten much more use per charge.


-------------
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson





Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: February/03/2010 at 12:52
we had a 12v, and then switched to all 18v tools so we didnt have to carry around two different batteries. we jumped to a 24v drill now and thats the only electric tool we use now.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: De_Tomaso
Date Posted: February/04/2010 at 15:53
Originally posted by HuntMaster HuntMaster wrote:

  There are very few consumer items made entirely in the US anymore.  Even stuff that says "made in USA" on the product usually has at least some components made elsewhere (i.e. screws, o-rings, etc.).
 
This holds true for German products, also. It is not possible to know where every component comes from.
Could you imagine a Swarovski factory that produced the metal pieces, rubber o-rings and eye- cups, chemical coatings, and even the nitrogen gas that goes in to their products? 
Sounds dumb to mention all this, but there are those out there that believe all these items are produced by the same company,and even same location.
[/QUOTE]

Swarovski makes their scopes in Austria, and 99% of the pieces comes from neighbouring countries. This is why it says Made in EU on the Z6i and not Made in Austria. It would really be bad publicity if costumers would think that anything in their 2500€ scope is made in China. Even more because optics buyers in Europe are mostly hunters and for them where something is made is really important.

The same goes for guns. Common way of thinking is that a hunters gun has to be made by a gunsmith by hand. If you really can not afford, this then you buy Sauer, Blaser or Manlicher and you give the gun to a gunsmith to do the engravings in wood and so on.To have at least something unique. But everyone really wants a gun made by Johan Fanzoj (http://www.fanzoj.com/en/home/index.html)or any similar gunsmith.      

So where a scope or a gun is made is really important.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: February/04/2010 at 16:41
Originally posted by De_Tomaso De_Tomaso wrote:

Swarovski makes their scopes in Austria, and 99% of the pieces comes from neighbouring countries. This is why it says Made in EU on the Z6i and not Made in Austria.
 
My Z6i says "Made in Austria" on it.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: John Barsness
Date Posted: February/04/2010 at 17:13
You can get a clue about when some so-called German and Austrian optics aren't totally made there when the optic in question says something like "From Austria" or "Germany" on it, instead of "Made in Austria" or "Made in Germany."
 
In fact one fairly well-known and highly regarded Euro-binocular has been made almost totally in Japan for several years now. The only thing made in Europe is the rubber armoring on the outside.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: February/04/2010 at 17:18
Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

In fact one fairly well-known and highly regarded Euro-binocular has been made almost totally in Japan for several years now. The only thing made in Europe is the rubber armoring on the outside.
 
I'm going to guess you're referring to Minox.  Is this correct?  If so, they announced at SHOT that production of their new HG has moved back to Germany from Japan.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: John Barsness
Date Posted: February/04/2010 at 21:41
Actually, no , I was not referring to Minox. They have always been upfront about what they have made elsewhere.
 
I did get to recently test a new German-made HG and it is a very fine binocular.


Posted By: eurolynn
Date Posted: February/06/2010 at 15:27
Well having lived in Germany for 22 years, and working in a German factory for 10 of it, I can let you in on a little tip.

It must be assembled in country, but If one...............yes I wrote ONE, component is made in Germany and installed in the assembly, it can (and is) labeled made in Germany!

Me and the frau were searching for refrigerator, and wanted something German.  It didn't work so well, so we went to ship it back where we purchased it, and the return address was a small town out side of Prag.

It turned out the unit was made in the Czech Republic, and the adjustment knobs for temperature were made in Germany (Sehr Gut!), the danged door handle was made in (yep) China.

Now I worked in a chemical company the whole time.  We made, (well, they still do), epoxy resins and polyester resin, and car care & stone care  also.  Any inferior product was sold to Ausland (foreign) destinations.  And the Peoples Republic got a huge amount of the products!

Just goes to show ya!


-------------
"Guns aren't toys! They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face!"


Posted By: Ed Connelly
Date Posted: February/06/2010 at 16:00
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

How about that Toyota recall, and what about global warming?


I'll check back in on this thread in a few days and see where it has wandered to.

Carry on.
 
 
 
For Beautiful Women visit the Ed Show....Bucky
 
 
 
 
 


-------------
Be sure to visit,

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_topics.asp?FID=50 - THE ED SHOW

Ju Cucarachas!!!


Posted By: De_Tomaso
Date Posted: February/06/2010 at 16:48
Originally posted by eurolynn eurolynn wrote:

Well having lived in Germany for 22 years, and working in a German factory for 10 of it, I can let you in on a little tip.

It must be assembled in country, but If one...............yes I wrote ONE, component is made in Germany and installed in the assembly, it can (and is) labeled made in Germany!

Me and the frau were searching for refrigerator, and wanted something German.  It didn't work so well, so we went to ship it back where we purchased it, and the return address was a small town out side of Prag.

It turned out the unit was made in the Czech Republic, and the adjustment knobs for temperature were made in Germany (Sehr Gut!), the danged door handle was made in (yep) China.

Now I worked in a chemical company the whole time.  We made, (well, they still do), epoxy resins and polyester resin, and car care & stone care  also.  Any inferior product was sold to Ausland (foreign) destinations.  And the Peoples Republic got a huge amount of the products!

Just goes to show ya!


Well Meopta is made in Czech Republic and is not so bad. Zeiss was East Germany and was also excellent. Maybe I am biased because I live in a country where 60% of all industry is producing things for German (and also the most expensive refrigerator in the world Gorenje Swarovski).

Since borders fell in EU there is no big difference in which part of EU things are made. Audi's are now assembled in Hungary, Aston Martins and Ferraris in Austria and so on. I think that until one thing is made inside of EU the quality doesn't suffer. When some thing is made in Chine I would not say the same.      


Posted By: eurolynn
Date Posted: February/06/2010 at 18:04
Tomaso,

I didn't mean to say anything Czech was bad, just that Made in Germany did not mean that it was truly made in Germany.  Being from Europe, you know how the Germans boast "Es ist Deutsch!"  (Qualität über allesWink)

If you took it as an insult, please do not, it wasn't intended as such.

Heck, I even went to Prag with my wife, excellent town and people.  I wanted to find a Meopta to take back to Germany, but the Frau instantly reminded me it was her vacation!  Take that to mean NO SCOPE!


-------------
"Guns aren't toys! They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face!"


Posted By: biggreen747
Date Posted: February/06/2010 at 18:18
Yep... The Germans are learning the phrase "they don't make 'em like they used to". I spend a bit of time in Germany, mostly in Morbach and Homburg, and most of my friends over there complain about the same cheap Chinese crap (CCC) we do. Now I'm sitting in Anchorage, having just brought a couple hundred thousand pounds of CCC over from Shanghai to continue to Chicago and New York for the American Consumer. Probably a few hundred riflescopes on those pallets too.

-------------
We measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a crayon, and cut it with a chainsaw.


Posted By: De_Tomaso
Date Posted: February/07/2010 at 08:54
@Eurolynn: I didn't took it as an insult Big Smile I would take as an insult if you would mix Slovenia with Slovakia, that would be painful. Cool


As for the Made in China topic, my point was only that if Swarovski turrets are made in Germany, and if tube are made in Slovenia, glass in Austria the scope is not any way less quality than if it would be made entirely in Austria. But it would probably be bad quality if some parts would be made in China. That was my only point in this debate.   


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: February/07/2010 at 09:20
I've got some philosophical problems with "made in China," because I don't like my money going to support for a Communist government.  I also despise the way they blatantly copy (read "steal") well-respected products and have no respect for patents, intellectual property, and trade names.  However, I'm not so sure that "made in China" is a blanket stamp of poor quality anymore.  In many respects, the Chinese are learning how to become world class in manufacturing.  It wasn't but about 3 decades ago that "made in Japan" had the same connotation that "made in China" does today.  Now, some of the highest quality goods you can buy are made in Japan.  China is becoming the same way.  The fact is, all products are made to specs provided by the company whose brand name adorns the product.  Regardless of where something is made, the company who outsources production basically gets whatever quality level they pay for.  If they pay for junk, they get junk.  If they pay for quality, they get quality, to the extent that their product design, materials, method of manufacture, and quality control standards promote a quality product.
 
It has become next to impossible to avoid buying items made in China anymore, though.  The computers we are using right now, as well as most electronic components are largely, if not entirely made in China.  Most products we buy have at least some Chinese made parts content.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: eurolynn
Date Posted: February/07/2010 at 09:41
FYI (just to ad to our misery) we, the United States, OWE CHINA MONEY!


BEIJING, China (CNN)
-- China, holder of nearly $1 trillion in U.S. debt, will keep buying Treasuries, but will keep a close eye on their value just the same, a Chinese government official said.



One say chairman Mao's buddies can say "Take a hike!"  We would have to leave the thousands of US owned factories, and leave all that machinery and they already have the technical training to keep it up for them selves.  Short of a war, we could do nothing.





-------------
"Guns aren't toys! They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face!"


Posted By: De_Tomaso
Date Posted: February/07/2010 at 15:45
I traveled in China for a month and since then I really don't wont to buy anything from them any more. But that is almost impossible now.

There is also one thing I noticed there. They don't have communism, they have ultra barbaric capitalism or even something else. I saw no free hospitals, no free universities and no workers with really wrights. They do on the other hand have all bad communism things, like control over everything, no free speech and so on. Really bad mix, unfortunately. And they don't respect any patent made in USA or EU, don't respect any western brands and so on.

So I will try (in the future) to by products not made there. And when I buy a Swaro or Zeiss, I still get product not from China. And I also think that they still don't know how to make a full quality product. Just one example:

Car made in EU:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIl4A4mDn2c
Car made in China:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHZqcKj7jNM&feature=fvw
       


Posted By: tombirdman
Date Posted: February/07/2010 at 16:06
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Ouch  I think I got a made in china ---  screw ---- one time.    StareShocked
Me too but I can't remember her name ?

-------------
gun collector, sword,knife collector, cigar smoker



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