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So whats the deal with the 7x36 format?

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Topic: So whats the deal with the 7x36 format?
Posted By: shaocaholica
Subject: So whats the deal with the 7x36 format?
Date Posted: July/20/2009 at 15:50
Seems like there's a lot of raving about the new Zen-Ray 7x36.  Can someone explain whats so nice about this configuration?  I was thinking about pre-ordering the 8x43s for hiking but now I'm wondering what all the fuss is about 7x36.  Perhaps its the compact size?  When I'm hiking, I'm usually packing my photo gear and water on a harness so I'm already carrying a lot of weight.  I'm not sure if the weight/size diff between 7x36 and 8x43 will really impact me.



Replies:
Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: July/20/2009 at 16:07
Generally, it is easier to hold a lower power bino steady and because of their lower magnification you can get away with a smaller objective lense hence lighter and more compact. Personally, my favorite configuration is a 8x42/43.


Posted By: silver
Date Posted: July/20/2009 at 16:34
7x35 was the standard American size for a general use.

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"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane."   Jimmie Buffet

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Posted By: Klamath
Date Posted: July/20/2009 at 16:41
If one pays some attention to several different optics forums, one thing that come up a lot is the stated desire for a really good compact 7x30-something binocular.  There is not a lot of immediately apparent magnification difference in 7x and 8x unless you are stretching to, or even past the limits of what should be expected from a 7-8x binocular.  What the appeal is, there is a full 5mm exit pupil with very little size increase over the typical 8x32.  If I read specs correctly, the 7x36 ZEN ED 2 will be only about about 1/2" longer than the Swarovski EL.  The depth of field is usually quite a bit better in a 7x binocular, as that depth is primarily a function of magnification (less depth with increase in magnification).  So the 7x can be a pretty much focus free sort of deal, somewhat like the IF with a CF wheel. 
 
There is a bit brighter image with the decrease in magnification, and a corresponding decrease in image shake, which along with the wider 7x field of view, conspire to give a lot of people a better viewing experience.  My major single use binocular since 2005 has largely been a Swift Eaglet 7x36.  The ONLY thing it lacks to be able to take a more serious shot at the next step up in glass, is a larger fov.  That looks like it has been fixed with the ZEN ED.  Oftentimes, I have gotten more use out of the 7x even in open desert hunting, especially when there is a lot of heat mirage.  I would not have guessed, but a 7x is even better there than an 8x, because there is a decreased magnification of heat waves as well.  Sometimes my 7x worked when my 10x was pretty useless.


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Steve
"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted". William Bruce Cameron



Posted By: shaocaholica
Date Posted: July/20/2009 at 17:36
How much bigger can I expect the 8x43 ED2 over the 7x36 ED2?  Will I get that much better low light performance with the 8x43?


Posted By: Klamath
Date Posted: July/20/2009 at 18:15
Well simple physics tells you that there is more light to work with in a 43mm objective.  I see no real practical difference in twilight performance with 7x36 (I have four now) with the 8x42-43 I have.  Sometimes differences may exist, but they may not exist in such an extent that they are readily seen.  The real practical differences is that (at least for me) that there is very nearly 8x43 performance from a 7x36 binocular in a much smaller package.
 
How much difference?  A target one mile away looks to be at 220 yards with 8x and 250 yards with 7x.
 
The best image probably wins the "what is that?" contest.


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Steve
"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted". William Bruce Cameron



Posted By: shaocaholica
Date Posted: July/20/2009 at 18:38
Right.  Hmm.  Seems like I'll be odering the 7x36 then.


Posted By: shaocaholica
Date Posted: July/20/2009 at 18:44
Originally posted by Klamath Klamath wrote:

The best image probably wins the "what is that?" contest.
Although its still yet to be seen what differences there are in image quality between the 7x and 8x ED2s considering they are very similar in design optically.


Posted By: cajunhunter
Date Posted: July/21/2009 at 18:05
I wonder how they will compare in size to the 8x32 leica and the 6x32 viper?  Anyone got in comments on this.  My next set, I want to compact, light, mountain hiking bowhunting set.


Posted By: shaocaholica
Date Posted: July/21/2009 at 18:18
Originally posted by cajunhunter cajunhunter wrote:

I wonder how they will compare in size to the 8x32 leica and the 6x32 viper?  Anyone got in comments on this.  My next set, I want to compact, light, mountain hiking bowhunting set.

According to another forum post, zen-ray quotes in an email that the 7x36 is:

ZR-ED2 7x36 - 5.8x5x1.9" 22oz
Leica 8x32 UV - 4.6x4.6x2.2" 19oz
Viper 6x32 - 4.9x4.8x??" 19oz


Posted By: shaocaholica
Date Posted: July/21/2009 at 18:58
Here you go:

http://finalpass.net/images/misc/Binos.jpg - http://finalpass.net/images/misc/Binos.jpg ">


Posted By: shaocaholica
Date Posted: July/21/2009 at 19:00



Posted By: FrankD
Date Posted: July/21/2009 at 21:46
Very nice comparison pictures there. Thanks!
 
Yes, the Zen ED 7x36 will be longer than the typical 8x32 bin. I believe it will be very comparable in length to something like the 8x42 Nikon Monarch but with better ergonomics because of the open bridge design.
 
I think Steve did an excellent job of highlighting why there is so much buzz over the 7x36. With all of the buzz in the hunting community being over 10x42s and 10x50s more often than not the lower powered binoculars haven't really been given much of the spotlight. Meanwhile some very good, inexpensive, low powered bins like the Leupold Yosemite 6x30 have been winning the hearts of many hunters. Their easy to use, bright, comfortable image makes them ideal for close quarter hunting and even glassing at moderate ranges.
 
What you are looking at with something like the Zen ED 7x36 is a slight increase in magnification over the Yosemite while drastically widening the field of view and providing the potential for superior optical performance through the use of dielectric mirror coatings on the prisms and ED glass in the objectives to provide sharper, more contrasty images.
 
I, for one, am greatly looking forward to both of the new Zen ED II models.


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Frank


Posted By: shaocaholica
Date Posted: July/21/2009 at 21:59
Whoops, messed up the labels.  Fixed now.





Posted By: cajunhunter
Date Posted: July/22/2009 at 11:42
How good would a 6x32 Leica Ultavid?


Posted By: cajunhunter
Date Posted: July/23/2009 at 17:36
How about a size comparison with the 7x36 ZR and the 10x43 so I can appreciate it?


Posted By: Klamath
Date Posted: July/23/2009 at 17:41
Works about the same size difference comparison as exists between the Swarovski EL in x43 vs x32.  Both ZENS are about a half inch longer than their Swaro counterpart.

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Steve
"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted". William Bruce Cameron



Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: July/23/2009 at 18:25
If you are lookign for something light and compact, you should also add Vortex Viper 8x42 to the list.  It sacrifices some field of view, but the binocular is one of the more compact 8x42 models I have seen weighing in at 23 ounces. 

ILya


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http://www.darklordofoptics.com - www.darklordofoptics.com
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Posted By: shaocaholica
Date Posted: July/23/2009 at 18:27
Originally posted by cajunhunter cajunhunter wrote:

How about a size comparison with the 7x36 ZR and the 10x43 so I can appreciate it?
Hmm, I can't seem to find the dimensional data on the other Zen EDs.


Posted By: Klamath
Date Posted: July/23/2009 at 18:38
I just measured my 8x43.  It is 6" long with eye cup collapsed 6.5" extended.  It is 5" wide across the objective at max IPD.

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Steve
"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted". William Bruce Cameron



Posted By: shaocaholica
Date Posted: July/23/2009 at 19:37
Originally posted by Klamath Klamath wrote:

I just measured my 8x43.  It is 6" long with eye cup collapsed 6.5" extended.  It is 5" wide across the objective at max IPD.

Hmm, thats barely any different from the dimensions I used for the 7x36.


Posted By: Klamath
Date Posted: July/23/2009 at 20:16
Sheeeeesh.  My bad.  6.5" collapsed and 7" extended.  Sorry about that.  The 7x36 is not going to seem "compact'"in the way we are used to with some of the x32 class of compacts we are used to.  These will be a slightly different breed of cat, I'm thinking.

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Steve
"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted". William Bruce Cameron



Posted By: shaocaholica
Date Posted: July/23/2009 at 20:26
But isn't one of the reasons why people want the 7x35 format back is compactness?  Or is that low on the list?


Posted By: Klamath
Date Posted: July/23/2009 at 20:56

A lot of people may like maximum compactness.  I will take a the decrease in size of the 36mm over the 42 mm while retaining the 5mm exit pupil.  I will also take the increased depth of field and increased fov of the ZEN.  This has a 36mm objective and this by itself will make it bigger than most x32's. I also happen to like 7x, so this is just about the ideal set up for me.  Maybe not for others.



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Steve
"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted". William Bruce Cameron



Posted By: NDhunter
Date Posted: July/23/2009 at 21:23
Another reason some may like the 7x36 is the decrease in weight, 22 oz. vs. 27 oz for the
8x43.  Especially birders who spend a lot of time with them in view.


Posted By: bald1
Date Posted: July/24/2009 at 12:02
NDhunter,

  The weight issue is germane for me as well.  As much as I love my Swaro 7x42B SLCs, their 33.5 ounces has become an annoyance now that I'm in my retirement years.  I've pre-ordered the ZenRay 7x36s with hope that they prove good enough for me to consider retiring or selling my Swaros.

  The other issue is that as I've aged, the max power I can hold steady enough to provide a relaxing view has decreased.  These days the highest I own is 9x and I find myself much preferring my 7x, 6.5x, and even 6x bins :)


Posted By: Zen-Ray
Date Posted: July/25/2009 at 11:23

There are a lot of excellent discussion on 7x36 ED2 on this thread.  To give a little background, 7x36ED2 is actually born out of collective suggestion on a discussion started by SteveC on different forum.  Thank you, Steve!

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=132413 - http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=132413
 
In the past, we always designed and produced products first and tried to convince customers that they should buy those products. Now, it is really refreshing to reverse the process and design a product based on what customers want.  From the orders we received, I am genuinly surprised to see so many people like 7x36 format. Again, I should not be surprised either since that's what many people want the very beginning.
 
Since there are many advancements in 7x36, we decided to extend those features to 8x43 and 10x43 formats as well. As a result, we end up having a complete line-up of new ZEN ED2 products.
 


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Charles
http://www.zen-ray.com - Zen-Ray Optics
Follow us on http://www.facebook.com/pages/Zen-Ray-Optics/116090708403998?ref=ts - Facebook


Posted By: cajunhunter
Date Posted: July/26/2009 at 17:17
Any chance you guys coming out with a really nice 6x32.  I am looking to add this.  I want a nice light, compact bino like the leica ultravid 8x32.   Mainly for bowhunting and low mag situations but there is nothing wrong with a 6 power. 


Posted By: Zen-Ray
Date Posted: July/27/2009 at 00:02
In near term, there is no plan for 32mm yet. I sure will let Chris and this forum know if anything new is coming up.

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Charles
http://www.zen-ray.com - Zen-Ray Optics
Follow us on http://www.facebook.com/pages/Zen-Ray-Optics/116090708403998?ref=ts - Facebook


Posted By: Zen-Ray
Date Posted: August/09/2009 at 09:39
A few pictures of 7x36 ED2
 
 


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Charles
http://www.zen-ray.com - Zen-Ray Optics
Follow us on http://www.facebook.com/pages/Zen-Ray-Optics/116090708403998?ref=ts - Facebook


Posted By: Ed Connelly
Date Posted: August/09/2009 at 09:41
Cool.........Cool

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Posted By: kristoffer
Date Posted: August/10/2009 at 14:26
I am really looking forward to getting my pair now, they look really nice too!



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