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Best survival gun

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Category: Firearms, Bows, and Ammunition
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Topic: Best survival gun
Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Subject: Best survival gun
Date Posted: January/26/2009 at 21:17
Lets say you were dropped in the hostile indian teretory living in the woods in the early 1700's and you could take a pack horse with supplies and ammunition what firearms would you want to take?

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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger



Replies:
Posted By: lucytuma
Date Posted: January/26/2009 at 21:21
I'll take the 12ga., slugs and #6 bird shot.

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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson


Posted By: helo18
Date Posted: January/26/2009 at 21:23
How many guns are we allowed to take?  One rifle and one pistol?

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To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

GEORGE WASHINGTON


Posted By: rifle looney
Date Posted: January/26/2009 at 21:24
I want to pick two.

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Posted By: swtucker
Date Posted: January/26/2009 at 21:30
I kept looking for the "all of the above" button. 


Posted By: lucytuma
Date Posted: January/26/2009 at 21:33
Now that I re-read the post "hostile indian territory" , I'd like to change my mind to the 223 auto also. 

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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson


Posted By: rifle looney
Date Posted: January/26/2009 at 21:41
Originally posted by lucytuma lucytuma wrote:

Now that I re-read the post "hostile indian territory" , I'd like to change my mind to the 223 auto also. 


but it says in the woods? and doesn't let you pick 2 it is a trick?


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Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: January/26/2009 at 22:14
Best all around... .308 semi-auto, very accurate, of course.  

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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: Monster
Date Posted: January/26/2009 at 23:04
Was tempted by the 12 ga. long barrel but I do not want those Indians to get that close. Then the .223 semi-auto crossed my mind but I wanted a little bit more knock down power so I went with the .308 semi-auto.

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"Get Busy Livin' or get busy dyin'" -Red (Shawshank Redemption)


Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: January/26/2009 at 23:07
308 Semi. I don't think it was around in the 1700's though.

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With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: Monster
Date Posted: January/26/2009 at 23:10
When did the Henry rifle first get invented (the autoloader)

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"Get Busy Livin' or get busy dyin'" -Red (Shawshank Redemption)


Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: January/26/2009 at 23:13
In the 1800's during the Civil War.

-------------
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: cyborg
Date Posted: January/26/2009 at 23:23
The Henry was invented in 1860 (Lever Action) The Gatling gun was invented in 1861 ( patented in 1862). Henrys idea of cartridges was instrumental in the invention of both. Winchester took ownership of Henry in 1866 due to defaulted bank loans that they had invested into Henry.

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With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg


Posted By: mike650
Date Posted: January/26/2009 at 23:31
another vote for the .308 semi-auto





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“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear


Posted By: Monster
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 00:03
ok just making sure the Indians did not have their hands on the Henry rifle in the 1700s. Thanks for the history lesson cyborg Thunbs Up

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"Get Busy Livin' or get busy dyin'" -Red (Shawshank Redemption)


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 05:52
Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

308 Semi. I don't think it was around in the 1700's though.
 
Are you calling me OLD????


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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: 300S&W
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 05:55
  Voted for a .308 semi but would rather have a .30-06 M1.


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 06:10
Was the carbine ever made in 30-06?  Thought that was only the Garand.  Carbine was in .30 carbine.  But I could be wrong.

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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: Bigdaddy0381
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 06:51
.308 semi. best all around indian/food killer.


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P&Z Firearms , Pro gun cleanings and gun repair and wood refinishing.

Ecclesiastes 10:2


Posted By: martin3175
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 07:38
 
 
308 SEMI AUTO Big Smile


Posted By: 300S&W
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 07:44
 I had a brain fart Kickboxer! It's fixed.


Posted By: Bigdaddy0381
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 07:52
This should do the trick.
 
 
 


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P&Z Firearms , Pro gun cleanings and gun repair and wood refinishing.

Ecclesiastes 10:2


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 09:09
How about this??? And it's a "Squeezer Special".  I've fired one...very accurate, recoil is moderate. 
 


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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 09:32
Pick as many as you want you are not limited to one only. Pay no mind to what did not exist then.  You can select what you wish. 
 
 
                      Indian
 
Danger entering Holstile Indian Teritory.
  


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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: cbm
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 09:34
I'd say in that scenario......I'd want to be able to pack as much ammo as possible, so I would go with a good bolt action .22 magnum.
 
My next choice would be a bolt action .223 . After killing 5 deer with one this year I grew to really appreciate the capabilities of a .223 with good bullets !


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 09:57
I think the 22 and the 22mag is a fine choice for a survival rifle lots of animals come in the single serving size.   I really perfer .308 over .223 
 
To get multiple choices go back and click again picking one at a time multiple times.
 


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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: Ed Connelly
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 13:27
I think I would chose a Marlin 45-70 lever action.   I'd be ready for Indian attacks and grizzlies, too.   Bucky

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Be sure to visit,

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_topics.asp?FID=50 - THE ED SHOW

Ju Cucarachas!!!


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 13:32


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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: 300S&W
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 13:47
 Can ya get that in a carbine model?!?!?!


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 13:55
458 LOTT

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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: 300S&W
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 14:04
 YOURS?!


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 14:06
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:



does that qualify for a squeezer special?


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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 14:06
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

458 LOTT

holy cow hold on to your false teeth, im betting that rifle has some bight!


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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 15:26
That recoil pad is looking a little thin but I'm liking the scout scope set up.

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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: 300S&W
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 16:22
OH YEA! With that thing the further the scope's away from my face the better I'd like it. Hey, maybe we can get Squeezer to shoot it as he just LUVS recoil!


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 21:14
That is not mine, mine is a #1.   Looked cool, though... kind of "carbine like".  I might be a little reluctant to spend a long day at the range with that.

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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 21:46
Well.  I would be looking for the following things:

1) light weight
2) ammo commonality
3) stopping power
4) ability to carry a lot of ammo.

Since we are talking about a wooded area, long range shooting is unlikely to be important.

With that in mind, I would take two firearms with me, and one of them is not on your list.

I would take a revolver chambered for 357Mag and a Marlin lever gun with the same chambering.  Then I would stockpile a LOT of ammo dominated by various Buffalo Bore loadsDevil., but also some lighter 38Special loads for small game.

ILya


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http://www.darklordofoptics.com - www.darklordofoptics.com
https://rumble.com/c/DLO - Rumble Video Channel


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 21:48
Here is what Buffalo Bore does with 357 Mag:

Make special note of the Marlin 1894, 18.5 inch barrel velocities. Item 19C/20, supercedes 30-30 energies!!!

1.    3 inch S&W J frame

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1302 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC (jacketed hollow cavity) = 1299 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Speer Uni Core = 1398 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Speer Uni Core = 1476 fps

2.    4 inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1375 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr JHC = 1411 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Speer Uni Core = 1485 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Speer Uni Core = 1603 fps

3.    5 inch S&W model 27

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast =1398 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1380 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Speer Uni Core = 1457 fps
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Speer Uni Core = 1543 fps

4.    6 inch Ruger GP 100

a. Item 19D/20-125gr. Speer Uni Core = 1707 fps

5.    18.5 inch Marlin 1894

a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast = 1851 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC = 1860 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Speer Uni Core = 2153 fps---- Can you believe this?!!!
d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Speer Uni Core = 2298 fps---- Or this?!!!






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http://www.darklordofoptics.com - www.darklordofoptics.com
https://rumble.com/c/DLO - Rumble Video Channel


Posted By: rifle looney
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 21:49
I did not see the Daisey red Ryder on the list?

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Posted By: Monster
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 21:50
Yea cuz you'll shoot your eye out

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"Get Busy Livin' or get busy dyin'" -Red (Shawshank Redemption)


Posted By: Mithran
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 22:10
I voted for the .22lr bolt action.  Teamed up with some 40gr hollow points and some nice and quiet CB caps.  More reliable than an autoloader, and won't draw as much attention as a centerfire rifle when shot.  Enough to hunt small birds, and small game animals.  No reason to kill a big deer when I'm feeding myself.  In survival mode your goal is to avoid contact from any two legged game so anything that lets me move faster and hide is better.  I would also take a .357 Magnum revolver for defense only.  Fast, reliable, accurate, and hits like a freight train with 125gr hollow points.  Some snake shot for the .357 mag would be good to have as well.

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Fight Smarter
Not Harder


Posted By: helo18
Date Posted: January/27/2009 at 23:04
Ok, for a handgun, I think I would take a 454 Casull.  Knock down anything.

For the rifle.  I think I would probably go with a 300 WM.  That is just me.  Can shoot any about any game with it.

And of course, I would want my bow along as well.  Good on anything from a squirrel to a moose.


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To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

GEORGE WASHINGTON


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: January/28/2009 at 22:35
Indian

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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: January/28/2009 at 22:47
Koshkin as usual your answer is very well thought out and in a world where semi auto is increasingly a bad word the model 1894 Marlin .357 would seem a fine choice of weapons to own for self defense & hunting. The big plus being that it doesnt carry the baggage that the black guns do.  Thank You for that suggestion.
I think the 1894 SS in 44 mag would be a fine choice also. 
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/1894centerfire/1894SS.asp - http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/1894centerfire/1894SS.asp


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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: January/29/2009 at 00:17
The only problem with the Marlin levergun chambered for 44Mag is that it has an incredibly slow twist rate which does not work with heavy bullets and limits the versatility of the cartridge.

The reason why I picked a lever gun is that within forested areas the need for long range shooting is minimal.  At short ranges, hot 357Mag loads our of a levergun are very effective against anything this side of a grizzly.  Also Marlin 1894C is lighter and handier than just about any semi-auto 308, has less recoil and less muzzle blast.  On top of that, in a survival situation, I am generally a little leery of semiautos (unless we are talking an AK or something along those lines).  Mechanically simpler bolt guns and lever guns are not dependent on durability of various springs and gas recoil systems, and require less cleaning for the most part.  Also, 38Special/357Mag ammunition requires less space to store than 308.  Most of all, I never want to have different types of ammo floating around.  22LR and something else may be OK, so I could add something like AR-7 to the lever gun and revolver, but that is pretty much it.

ILya


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http://www.darklordofoptics.com - www.darklordofoptics.com
https://rumble.com/c/DLO - Rumble Video Channel


Posted By: Sandhillbilly
Date Posted: January/29/2009 at 13:57
If I could only take 1 rifle. I would take a double barrel rifle. 308 and 17 Mach 2 over and under. If I could also take a pistol, it would be a Ruger Redhawk 41 cal.

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Untutored courage is useless in the face of educated bullets. Quote George S Patton


Posted By: rifle looney
Date Posted: February/07/2009 at 17:47
This was interesting to say the least.. looks like it got shoved out of the way? were the results any where what you had thought?


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Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: February/07/2009 at 18:06
Originally posted by rifle looney rifle looney wrote:

This was interesting to say the least.. looks like it got shoved out of the way? were the results any where what you had thought?


Of course not, the best survival gun is obviously a snubby revolver chambered for 500 S&W Magnum.  It is unrivaled as a combination firearm and flamethrower with an additional capability to knock down firewood with the muzzle blast.

ILya


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http://www.darklordofoptics.com - www.darklordofoptics.com
https://rumble.com/c/DLO - Rumble Video Channel


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: February/08/2009 at 13:40
Of those choices:
.22LR for small game.  Unrivaled ability to pack a lot of ammo, quiet, and remarkably effective.
.30-06 for large game.  A tad more reach and versatility than .308, especially if I'm in big bear country.
Both in bolt actions. I want survival guns to be as mechanically simple and foolproof as possible.  Both rifles would double as self protection guns, depending on the situation.
.44 mag Revolver for close-in self protection.  Part of the reason for the .44 mag is because I think the scandium framed, titanium cylinder S&W 329PD makes an awesome low maintenance wilderness survival gun, being so incredibly lightweight and corrosion proof.



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Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Average Joe
Date Posted: February/08/2009 at 17:59

All you need is a BFG,nothing else.



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I'm classic shag nasty type.


Posted By: drd34
Date Posted: February/10/2009 at 18:22
I feel RifleDude is somewhat on the right track but what if you had to carry it all yourself? Would you bring all that?

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You gotta carry it.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: February/10/2009 at 20:59
Yes, I'd just build a permanent shelter to store the guns I wasn't using at the time.  I shudder to think what I'd do if forced to have only 1 gun. 

But, if I was forced to have just one gun, it would be a hard choice between the .22LR and .30-06.  The former is quieter and better suited for small game.  I could bring far more ammo along, the ammo is much cheaper, and I could survive for much longer due to the greater quantity of ammo.  On the other hand, if I was in bear country, I would hate to know I only had a rimfire available to protect myself, even if taking close range head shots.  I also would feel grossly undergunned for deer or elk when presented those options for food.


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Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: drd34
Date Posted: February/11/2009 at 12:25
Unless you were in Griz country the .30-06 might be overkill but I guess it depends upon your comfort level in the middle of nowhere wilderness. Remember, most wilderness areas are tight and the need for long range capabilities are virtually non-existant. Most deep woods deer hunters will even agree that something like the Winchester 30-30 lever action saddle rifle with it's short barrel length is more effective in tight situations. I even know alot of guys who deer hunt deep with .44 mag or .357 pistols. Nobody said that you had to take an 1800 lb elk down for lunch, however a .22LR will take deer. Even if you do take one of these larger animals down for dinner what are you going to do with the other 50 to 200 pounds of meat that you don't eat before it starts to rot? If you want to draw attention to yourself just leave one of these carcasses laying around and see how much activity that draws your way. It's the kind of activity you're trying to avoid, remember? Bears are scavengers you know, and they can smell that deer 2 miles away.

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You gotta carry it.


Posted By: outsidebear
Date Posted: February/11/2009 at 13:09
A first timer in the Forum here:
A wilderness firearm/caliber to 'live' with and from the land by what it offers, in a nomad situation of living:
1. .22 LR would be first choice.
2. .22 Hornet would be second choice, northern Eskimos were not found wanting in their choice of this cartridge.   50 rounds makes for small package, fine for all game, with the right shot placement adequate for deer/elk/bears.  Would also have .22 LR chamber adaptor/insert
4. .223, with .22 LR chamber adaptor/insert
3. bolt action or single shot is sufficient, Ruger 10-22 would be another good choice, as it has capability to deliver many shots placed well in short period of time (if ever needed?)
4. handgun would be mostly for 'comfort zone' factor, not 'needed'
5. slingshot fine companion for small game gathering

First item to have with me, with the DB Cooper scenario in mind:
1. a machete: a knowledgeable individual with outdoor skills can live fine with just a machete, make shelter, some protection, wood working tool, etc.
2. some small line (rope) for snares, binding material (this may also be made from wood fibers)
3. fishing line and hooks, a few lures
4. a bit of flint for fire making
5. then a firearm
KNOWLEDGE of how to live in the wilderness is the most important factor here, I'd say. 
One would not be harvesting other than small game (rabbit, grouse/birds, fish) for the most part. When larger supply of meat is needed, then deer (eat fresh then make into jerky), or other game as it is presented for the taking. Meaning here, not the 'need' for large caliber firearm.

You can have any firearm and lots of ammunition, but if you're without the knowledge to live with and from the land, the land will win, and your bones will be found in the spring when the snow melts away...


 


Posted By: drd34
Date Posted: February/11/2009 at 14:30
Wow!!! Right on the money. My choice would be nothing more than a Walther P22 with the hottest MiniMag and Stinger Hollow Point ammo available. I'd have a box of the .22 bird shot rounds as well. Two 10 shot clips would be adaquate. You'd be able to take everything from deer, rabbits, squirrels, raccoons, ducks, geese, game birds like grouse, etc., you could even shoot fish. Your accuracy efficiency would jump by a quantum as .22 will give you much tighter groups than any other caliber period. The rounds are loud enough to scare any black bear running by just shooting it in the air. When you can empty a ten shot clip in 3-seconds, pop in another, and let that rip....not too many human intruders would be advancing at any fast pace let me tell ya. And, the best thing is that the gun weighs 12oz and you can carry a ton of ammo. Weighed all out, this would be my choice as well.

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You gotta carry it.


Posted By: drd34
Date Posted: February/11/2009 at 14:37
I should preface the statement ".22 will give you much tighter groups than any other caliber period" I am referring in comparison to other handgun calibers i.e., 9mm, .38, .357, .44, etc. I was assuming also that you all were aware that the P22 is a semi-auto pistol.

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You gotta carry it.


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: February/13/2009 at 21:17

And the winners seem to be

22 mag bolt action, .223 semi auto and top of the list .308 semi auto. 



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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: February/14/2009 at 00:54
Oh, here is another possibility, if you really wan to go light, but have something more potent that 22LR available:  I have a Glock 31 chambered for fairly peppy 357Sig round.  In order to not go too broke while practicing with it, I bough an Advantage Arms 22LR conversion kit, which is suprisingly accurate and reliable.  That would perhaps make a good candidate for a survival gun.

Another play on the same theme is a GLock pistol with a MechTech CCU in the bag.

ILya

ILya


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http://www.darklordofoptics.com - www.darklordofoptics.com
https://rumble.com/c/DLO - Rumble Video Channel


Posted By: RONK
Date Posted: February/14/2009 at 09:52
 There used to be a little gadget advertised in all the outdoor magazines that was basically a heavy brass (?) "cartridge", available in several medium case cofigurations, .30-06, .308 Win. .270, Win. etc.
 It looked like an empty case but instead of a primer pocket, it had a chamber that would accept .22 blank cartridges of the type used to drive nails into concrete.
You would press a round lead ball of correct size into the mouth of the device and a blank cartridge into the "chamber". You could choose one of four power levels by the color-coded ammo, and fire it like any other ammo in your centerfire rifle. It was indefinitely reusable.
 A couple of those and a pocketful of blanks and round balls wouldn't be unduly heavy or bulky, and would give your centerfire "low profile" performance.
 I've never used one, but I think it was Ross Seyfried who reviewed them awhile back in Rifle or Handloader magazine, I think it was. He found them quite useful and effective.


Posted By: Tip69
Date Posted: February/14/2009 at 10:26
for those who think the .22lr would be great, I would say the .17HMR would be better!  Especially, if they made some ammo with a bit more grains than they do now!  You could shoot small game out to 100 yds without guessing where to aim!

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take em!


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: February/18/2009 at 01:09
I have been wondering about the 17hmr as it is reported to be quite accurate however I think you might be better off with the 22 mag and its slightly heavier bullet.  17hmr certainly is a viable option as you can carry huge amounts of ammo for it.  I just dont have any experience with it how does it do on a coyote or deer size animal?

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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: cbm
Date Posted: February/18/2009 at 04:42
I know a guy that has bought and sold 3 different .17's and is looking to get a .22 mag. He says they are accurate and deadly on small game............but lack the killing power on bigger stuff and any remote gust of wind throws them off bad at 100 yrds or more. One of my other buddy's had one and said basically the same thing and sold his for a .204 Ruger !
 
I am a .22 mag man..........seen what they can do and have done it......if you need meat on the table , they can do it !!


Posted By: auto_1187
Date Posted: February/19/2009 at 18:24
I think the ultimate survival rifle is a full-auto AR-15 with a long barrel, and an XM-26 shotgun mounted under it.If my picture doesn't work, you can look at it at http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh28-e.htm The 12 gauge bottom mounted shotgun can handle anything without having to aim at the head(or hardly at all), and the .223 can hit any small game animal out to 400-500 yards easy. For two-legged problems, a burst of automatic fire, or gernade rounds through the 12 gauge will provide an adequate fear repellant against any of them.


Posted By: drd34
Date Posted: February/19/2009 at 18:35
The .223 is a solid rope at 500yds. Are ya shootin prarie dogs? Awesome baliistics. The best "rope" around. It's fast too. So fast that if you shot a deer with it, it would pass right through the deer and the deer wouldn't even know it, until it bled to death. 4,200 fps ain't no joke brah. To hell with the 12ga.

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You gotta carry it.


Posted By: rifle looney
Date Posted: February/19/2009 at 18:55
223 @ 4200fps....should this be 223@3200fps?

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Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/19/2009 at 18:56
And what .223 do you have that shoots 4200FPS??  I have heard of 22-250s doing that but a .223 I never have.

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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: drd34
Date Posted: February/19/2009 at 19:02
At that speed it's a lazer anyways....what's the dif? I shoot some hopped up reloads.

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You gotta carry it.


Posted By: drd34
Date Posted: February/19/2009 at 19:06
For one thing, are we talking muzzel velocity, 50, 10, 500, 1000, or 2000yd velocity? Quit pickin pepper out of fly sh*t.

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You gotta carry it.


Posted By: rifle looney
Date Posted: February/19/2009 at 19:30
Regardless of the whats the diff 4200fps aint happening.

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Posted By: drd34
Date Posted: February/19/2009 at 19:43
Ok, so I'm sorry 3,700 plus for factory Remington.
 
Commercial .223 Rem Ammo--New and Remanufactured

Black Hills 223 Rem Remington AmmoThere is a vast array of new and re-manufactured factory ammo available, with bullets ranging from 35gr up to 80gr. For match purposes, the top three choices are Black Hills, Federal Gold Medal Match, and Lapua. For price and quality, it is hard to beat the Black Hills. David Tubb notes: "Even though I normally had my own competitive ammo, on those occasions where I am required to shoot factory ammunition, I always try to pick the best. In my opinion Black Hills is unsurpassed." Black Hills sells a full line of .223 ammunition, including long-range match ammo loaded with 75gr HP, and 77 Sierra MK. Dennis DeMille won the 2003 National Service Rifle Championship shooting 77gr Black Hills ammo.

Black Hills also offers a wide range of http://www.black-hills.com/reman.htm - Remanufactured Ammo , in bullet weights from 36 grains to 77 grains. Black Hills' reloads employ quality components and shoot nearly as well as the brand new ammo. You'll find good prices on Black Hills remanufactured ammo at http://www.creedmoorsports.com/ - Creedmoor Sports , and http://www.competitor.com/ - competitor.com . For example, Creedmoor Sports offers the remanufactured Black Hills with 77gr SMKs for $26.55 for 50 rounds. That's less than half the cost of new .223 Federal Gold Medal Match, which runs about $19 for 20 rounds.

For Varminters, Black Hills offers the following selection of remanufactured ammo:

Bullet 36 Vrmt Grenade 40 V-Max 50 V-Max 52 HP match 55 SoftPt 60 Nosler 60 V-Max
Velocity 3750 fps 3600 fps 3300 fps 3250 fps 3200 fps 3100 fps 3100 fps

 


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You gotta carry it.


Posted By: drd34
Date Posted: February/19/2009 at 19:48
Why split hairs? Well over a I/2 mile in 1 second for commercial ammo and this ain't no rope? Cut the small talk. Why are you being so petty?

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You gotta carry it.


Posted By: rifle looney
Date Posted: February/19/2009 at 19:48
4200-3750=450 and is a long ways off by any standard. actually not even the same ball park!

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Posted By: drd34
Date Posted: February/19/2009 at 19:55
For you maybe. It's still a friggin lazer. Remember, I'm not shooting factory either. I sent you Rem Factory stats. 450 feet ain't hay bubbah when it comes to 3750/fps. I've chronoed reloads at 4320. You just like to start stuff don't you?

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You gotta carry it.


Posted By: rifle looney
Date Posted: February/19/2009 at 19:58
you need a new chrony dude or just get a grip.BYE!

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Posted By: helo18
Date Posted: February/19/2009 at 20:01
Originally posted by drd34 drd34 wrote:

For you maybe. It's still a friggin lazer. Remember, I'm not shooting factory either. I sent you Rem Factory stats. 450 feet ain't hay bubbah when it comes to 3750/fps. I've chronoed reloads at 4320. You just like to start stuff don't you?


You need to chill out.  He isn't trying to start anything. He asked a simple question to clarify and you blew it out of the water.  I would have a very hard time believing you would get to 4300 fps in a 223 without getting extreme pressure signs, or using a very light bullet.  Say a 20 gr.  What bullet are you reloading that fast?


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To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

GEORGE WASHINGTON


Posted By: drd34
Date Posted: February/19/2009 at 20:01
I'll let you calibrate the SOB. Meet me at the range Doubtful Thomas. You're too easy dude.

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You gotta carry it.


Posted By: Monster
Date Posted: February/19/2009 at 20:02
Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

Originally posted by drd34 drd34 wrote:

For you maybe. It's still a friggin lazer. Remember, I'm not shooting factory either. I sent you Rem Factory stats. 450 feet ain't hay bubbah when it comes to 3750/fps. I've chronoed reloads at 4320. You just like to start stuff don't you?


You need to chill out.  He isn't trying to start anything. He asked a simple question to clarify and you blew it out of the water.  I would have a very hard time believing you would get to 4300 fps in a 223 without getting extreme pressure signs, or using a very light bullet.  Say a 20 gr.  What bullet are you reloading that fast?


+1 because if you are reloading 223 that fast I want the recipe.....


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"Get Busy Livin' or get busy dyin'" -Red (Shawshank Redemption)


Posted By: drd34
Date Posted: February/19/2009 at 20:10
It's light. It's hot. I'll send you the secret recipe if you promise not to tell anyone. Ok?

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You gotta carry it.


Posted By: helo18
Date Posted: February/19/2009 at 20:15
Why not post it here for all to see?

Although I don't need a round that hot in my AR.  I have a 22-250 for my fast rounds.


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To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

GEORGE WASHINGTON


Posted By: cbm
Date Posted: February/19/2009 at 20:41
I got a GAMO that'll do that all day !!! Pretty cheap to shoot too ...........might have to think about that for this survival trip !!


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/19/2009 at 21:08
Originally posted by cbm cbm wrote:

I got a GAMO that'll do that all day !!! Pretty cheap to shoot too ...........might have to think about that for this survival trip !!


Laugh


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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: RONK
Date Posted: February/19/2009 at 21:11
Originally posted by cbm cbm wrote:

I got a GAMO that'll do that all day !!! Pretty cheap to shoot too ...........might have to think about that for this survival trip !!
 
 I bet you have to pump it TWICE to get that kind of velocity!Wink


Posted By: rifle looney
Date Posted: February/19/2009 at 21:13
Thanks I peeeeeed my pants!  Roll on Floor Laughing

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Posted By: auto_1187
Date Posted: February/20/2009 at 12:21
Who wants to go up against a grizzly with a pellet air rifle? Or a .223 with featherweight bullets for that matter? I like power, so I still want the 12 gauge in case I need to blow a buffalo in half.Ha Ha!!!!


Posted By: 300S&W
Date Posted: February/20/2009 at 14:54
 It's ALL about shot placement!          Whistling


Posted By: drd34
Date Posted: February/20/2009 at 17:38
Ok Monster, you asked for it. Here's the recipe: 30 grain (1.9g) bullet using the powder out of a Hornady .204 Ruger load. This powder is not available to handloaders. It's proprietary.

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You gotta carry it.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: February/20/2009 at 17:49
Input Variables
Firearm typeRifle Sight Height1.5
Bullet Weight (grains)30 Ballistic Coefficient.095
Muzzle Velocity (fps)4300 Temperature59
Barometric Pressure (hg)29.53 Relative Humidity78%
Zero Range (yards)100 Wind Speed (mph)0



Ballistics Table in Yards
   30 gr., .095 B.C.www.hornady.com
Range (yards)Muzzle50100200300400500
Velocity (fps)430036543096215914251016850
Energy (ft.-lb.)12328906383111356948
Trajectory (100 yd. zero)-1.5-0.40.0-2.3-12.4-40.4-97.9
Come Up in MOA-1.50.80.01.14.09.618.7

Input Variables
Firearm typeRifle Sight Height1.5
Bullet Weight (grains)55 Ballistic Coefficient.243
Muzzle Velocity (fps)3200 Temperature59
Barometric Pressure (hg)29.53 Relative Humidity78%
Zero Range (yards)100 Wind Speed (mph)0


Ballistics Table in Yards
   55 gr., .243 B.C.www.hornady.com
Range (yards)Muzzle50100200300400500
Velocity (fps)3200299628002434209717891515
Energy (ft.-lb.)12501096958724537391280
Trajectory (100 yd. zero)-1.5-0.30.0-2.9-11.8-28.6-56.4
Come Up in MOA-1.50.50.01.43.86.810.8


You would be much better off using heavier bullets even if you really are obtaining those velocities.  A 30 grain bullet would die so fast you would have hardly any energy once you hit 200 yards. 


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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: drd34
Date Posted: February/20/2009 at 18:07
True dat. I just wanted to clear the air a bit. It was gettin kinda stuffy.

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You gotta carry it.


Posted By: auto_1187
Date Posted: February/20/2009 at 19:32
A 30 gr. bullet!!! No wonder you're getting 4300 fps! You're shooting airsoft BBs.

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Vegetables aren't food, vegetables are what food eats!!


Posted By: auto_1187
Date Posted: February/20/2009 at 19:56
Like I've said before, I like power.

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Vegetables aren't food, vegetables are what food eats!!


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: February/20/2009 at 20:02
velocity may be nice but without more mass and the resulting energy it can be deflected too easily by even the smallest tree branch or gust of wind.

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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: drd34
Date Posted: February/21/2009 at 06:00
Originally posted by rifle looney rifle looney wrote:

Regardless of the whats the diff 4200fps aint happening.
 
I have no arguement with any of that, it's all true. What I'm settling is the Rifle Looney statement. The challenge wasn't about stopping power it was speed related, remember?


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You gotta carry it.


Posted By: drd34
Date Posted: February/21/2009 at 16:29
For stopping power on a budget I'd choose the 900 Remington Stainless, good scope, probably going with 30-06 caliber. If money was no object, I'd go Weatherby, same relative caliber, w/Weatherby ammo. It's the sh*t. I'd want to be fast, low drop, w/stop. The 300 Weatherby is a good caliber. These are friggin sniper rifles. With the right ammo and scope you can shoot like Quigley. I believe that both of these have 3,800fps capabilities unless you want real stopping loads, then you'll have a trade off.

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You gotta carry it.


Posted By: drd34
Date Posted: February/21/2009 at 20:13
Ok,3,400fps. I'm sorry looney.

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You gotta carry it.



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