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Help w/ New Varmit Scope

Printed From: OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc.
Category: Scopes
Forum Name: Varmint Scopes
Forum Description: Critter gittin' scopes
URL: http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11085
Printed Date: October/23/2017 at 19:32


Topic: Help w/ New Varmit Scope
Posted By: DogBuster
Subject: Help w/ New Varmit Scope
Date Posted: May/02/2008 at 20:49
It has been a while since I have used this site, but it seems just as usefull as when I left, so that is good.  I have surfed through a lot of forums, but I am still frusterated because I do not see a true winner as far as the "perfect" varmit scope for my gun, aside from a $2k Swaro...
 
The gun and situation for the scope:  DPMS AR-15 .223 w/ 24" Bull barrell.  Looking for good varmit scope for up to 500 yards.  I am looking to spend no more than $800.00 to replace the Leo VX II 3x9 that I have frusteratingly had on her for the last two PD hunts. 
 
I welcome any help and opinions all are willing to give.
 
Thanks,
 
Dylan


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"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
Ronald Reagan



Replies:
Posted By: yellowdog
Date Posted: May/02/2008 at 23:26
  Leupold VX III 4.5 x 14 x 40 A.O. with varmint hunters reticle. This reticle is great, & good to 500 yards when zero'ed at 200.

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If you don't want to stand behind our troops, then we will gladly have you stand in front of them.


Posted By: mercenary1947
Date Posted: May/03/2008 at 01:03
 There's a long list for that amount .... really does'nt matter which rifle you put one on ... depends on the useage .. and requirements of your shots.  Believe me you don't need a $2,000.00 scope to shoot praire pups ... 500 yards .... I'd get enough magnification .... you don't want them looking like piss ants in the lens . Myself I would'nt go for less than 20x on the high end .... I may get thumped for that but when 500 yards or more ... just my opinion . Check the Nikons and Burris .... I prefer Nikons myself .

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One Shot One Kill .... *S.O.F * Head Shots Only
               SWFAM


Posted By: yellowdog
Date Posted: May/03/2008 at 02:12
Originally posted by mercenary1947 mercenary1947 wrote:

 There's a long list for that amount .... really does'nt matter which rifle you put one on ... depends on the useage .. and requirements of your shots.  Believe me you don't need a $2,000.00 scope to shoot praire pups ... 500 yards .... I'd get enough magnification .... you don't want them looking like piss ants in the lens . Myself I would'nt go for less than 20x on the high end .... I may get thumped for that but when 500 yards or more ... just my opinion . Check the Nikons and Burris .... I prefer Nikons myself .
  For yote's though you often get close shots & that's when I prefer being able to get down to the 4.5 on the power. Also I've found that the 14 on the high end  is good enough for p.dogs sized targets out to  500yds, not the best, but it works good. No I haven't hit to many p.dogs out to 500, but I have shot at the gun range at these sized targets to see how well the reticle worked. Now if this were to be a p.dog rig only, then I would would say no brainer on getting the 20 to 25 glass. 

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If you don't want to stand behind our troops, then we will gladly have you stand in front of them.


Posted By: DogBuster
Date Posted: May/03/2008 at 15:32
I've had my hands on a Leupold 4.5-14x50 VX-III a number of times, but is it worth the $780.00 price tag? 

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"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
Ronald Reagan


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: May/03/2008 at 16:00
not when you can buy this for almost the same price
http://www.swfa.com/pc-1513-259-zeiss-45-14x44-conquest-rifle-scope.aspx - http://www.swfa.com/pc-1513-259-zeiss-45-14x44-conquest-rifle-scope.aspx
 
this may be worth a shot too
http://www.swfa.com/pc-12406-2172-bushnell-25-16x50-elite-6500-30mm-rifle-scope.aspx - http://www.swfa.com/pc-12406-2172-bushnell-25-16x50-elite-6500-30mm-rifle-scope.aspx


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: DogBuster
Date Posted: May/03/2008 at 16:06
I agree, but what's the deal w/ the reticle?  I really like the Varmit reticle or similar.  I am not a fan of the traditional duplex for dog hunting, wich will be the primary purpose of this set up.  When will Ziess inovate a reticle to match their fine glass?

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"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
Ronald Reagan


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: May/03/2008 at 16:08
they have a mil dot and the z800 and z1000 reticles which are setup for ranges


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: DogBuster
Date Posted: May/03/2008 at 16:17
OK.  Sell me on why http://www.swfa.com/pc-9798-259-zeiss-45-14x50-conquest-rifle-scope.aspx - http://www.swfa.com/pc-9798-259-zeiss-45-14x50-conquest-rifle-scope.aspx    would be better than a Leo.
 
I'm buying a scope this week and want to feel good about parting with a handfull of dough...
 
Thanks.


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"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
Ronald Reagan


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: May/03/2008 at 16:21
to be honest with you i wouldnt buy either of them, i cant see spending $900 for a  varmint scope, i have a $100 3x9 on my varmint rifle, course i only use it for coyotes not pdogs

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: May/03/2008 at 16:22
Because it is like you are looking through nothing instead of a tinted piece of cloudy glass which will be the case with the Leupold.  

-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: DogBuster
Date Posted: May/03/2008 at 16:22
Is it worth the extra hundred $$$ over the Leo http://www.swfa.com/p-3501-leupold-45-14x50-vx-iii-30mm-riflescope.aspx - http://www.swfa.com/p-3501-leupold-45-14x50-vx-iii-30mm-riflescope.aspx   ? 

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"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
Ronald Reagan


Posted By: DogBuster
Date Posted: May/03/2008 at 16:26
Will the 1" tube be a serious disadvantage over 30mm.  I've heard both.

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"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
Ronald Reagan


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: May/03/2008 at 16:28
only if you plan to hunt in lower light situations i give the conquest the nod in the glass quality, they are both good for cs dept's 30mm has more travel than the one inch, i have a hard time paying leupolds asking price for there scopes when i feel the scopes in there price range are better optically, the 4200 elite smokes the vxII and i feel that the conquest is one of a list of many scopes thats better than the vxIII, the vxIII to me is more on par with the 4200

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: May/03/2008 at 16:28
Only as far as internal adjustment travel.  Zeiss scopes typically are lacking in the amount of internal adjustment range.  But if you are just going to use the reticle for holdover that will not be a concern to you.

Optically all else being equal a 30mm has no advantage over a 1 inch tube.


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: May/03/2008 at 16:29
In the case of a Zeiss vs. Leupold the Zeiss will have a clearer image than the 30mm Leupold.  They just use better glass and coatings and they give you a clearer and nicer picture.

-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: May/03/2008 at 16:41
im not a loopy fan they do have some intresting ideas and services but for the price i too feel like money is spent better on other scopes.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: DogBuster
Date Posted: May/03/2008 at 16:50

Do any of you own a Ziess or have experience shooting through a Rapid Z 800? 

I really have been shooting for years, but I was either using crappy old scopes or military issue, but now that I am single I have a little more money to throw at toys.  I believe in "Buy cheap and buy twice," but I don't want to burn myself in the process, either.
 
I appreciate all the help so far.


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"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
Ronald Reagan


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: May/03/2008 at 16:55
i know trigger29 has one and he lives in south dakota and he loves it

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: May/03/2008 at 17:15
DogBuster,
I haven't used the Zeiss Rapid Z, but the Conquest is optically better than VX-III.  However, contrary to what some here claim, I don't think by a huge margin, IMHO.  Or, maybe I just have an exceptional VX-III, I don't know.   I think VX-III glass is a definite improvement over the previous Vari-X III, so it isn't like you're gonna be looking through a cloudy soft drink bottle.  I have a Leupy VX-III 6.5-20X40 LR 30mm with Varmint Hunters reticle, and I really like this scope.  To give you some perspective on what I have to compare it to, on a typical PD shoot, I also have rifles topped with a Swarovski PH 6-24X50, a Nightforce NXS 3.5-15X50, a NF 8-32X56, and an IOR 4-14X50 on the same trip, and although the Leupy isn't quite at the level of those scopes optically, it holds its own.   You typically aren't shooting prairie dogs in very low light conditions, and in my humble view as someone who shoots PD's a couple weekends a year, the right reticle is more important than superb optics.  In the middle of the day, the view through all scopes is compromised quite a bit by heavy mirage at mid to long distance anyway, and contrary to what some may think, I have found that 12-14X is all the magnification you need during most of the day, since more X than that is negated by the mirage.  I think the Leupy VH reticle is a great, yet simple reticle that works very well for PD shooting.  The Zeiss Rapid Z on paper looks very nice too, but having never used it, I can't comment on its usefulness.
 
I doubt you will be disappointed in either scope, but I wouldn't be swayed away from the Leupold due to optical reasons if you like the VH reticle as I do.  There's nothing wrong with the VX-III optically.  If it were me, I would probably get the Conquest with the Rapid Z reticle, only because I like the looks of the reticle and don't have one already.


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Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: May/03/2008 at 17:16
If you are thinking of spending the dollars for the Leopold, then gut it out and go ahead and spend the extra for a good scope. However, there are a number of scopes out there below your dollar mark that will do the job for you quite nicely.   I have the 59th Leatherwood 3-9 camputer scope off the line, mounted on a Browning BAR 30-06, and it is fabulous. They make a 6-24 camputer that a friend has mounted on a Remington 700 243 SSMag and he shoot beavers at about 700yds(off his back porch, across his pond, using the porch rail for a rest...tough life) with it, and it is around $550.00. True, 500yd is getting a little long in the tooth for a 3-9, but I have shot it successfully that far. However, Nikon and Pentax both make BDC's costing well below your price range. Depends on what all you plan to use it for, how much abuse you intend to impose upon it. I have cheap scopes for some things, much more expensive for others. Bushnell Elite series are always very good. Have not had an opportunity to try the 6500's yet, but the 4200's are commendable.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: May/03/2008 at 17:22
Thats a good call Kickboxer, I think this would be a great scope for his needs.  http://www.swfa.com/pc-9847-185-bushnell-6-24x50-elite-4200-30mm-rifle-scope.aspx - http://www.swfa.com/pc-9847-185-bushnell-6-24x50-elite-4200-30mm-rifle-scope.aspx   I think optically the 4200s are better than the Leupold VX3, MK4 lines.  I am just always let down big time when I look through a nicer Leupold. 


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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: May/03/2008 at 23:40
I agree...I do not believe that scope would be a bad choice, nor do I believe there is any Leupold that can touch it near the price range. I have pretty good eyes, can't see what all the fuss over Leupold is or has been. Too much money for too little. The Rain Guard feature on the Elites is very hard to match. Took two rifles hog hunting last June...one with Nikon, one with 4200 Elite. Very hot and humid conditions...rifles inside a Winchester travel case overnight/all day, in air conditioning...Nikon lenses got hazed upon removing from the case after being in A/C all day, Elite did not at all. Easy to wipe the Nikon lenses to clear, but did not have to with the Bushnell. Time matters.


Posted By: mercenary1947
Date Posted: May/04/2008 at 09:17
 Yep .... seems my opinion of 20x was close to most here .... I have the 6.5 - 20 Nikon Monarch .... for targets as small as P-Dogs at 500 or 500 + .... I'd want the 20x .... just my opinion .... a p-dog at 500 yards is kinda small .... they're not gonna stand up tall .. stretch out their arms ...legs and paws for ya ... to make a larger target . 

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One Shot One Kill .... *S.O.F * Head Shots Only
               SWFAM


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: May/04/2008 at 12:08
I have no difficulty at all hitting PDs at 500 yards and beyond at 14X, provided the reticle is thin and I'm dialed in on the distance.  I've found that in the middle of the day, using more than about 12X or so becomes difficult from the standpoint of acquiring the target in the scope and dealing with the boiling mirage.

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Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: May/04/2008 at 19:51
ted has a good point, even with a sunshade it can be a pain to shoot when its hot.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: yellowdog
Date Posted: May/05/2008 at 02:09
 Would'nt give you a plastic penny for a Bushnell, not due to their quality, but for their service/warr. Cussing

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If you don't want to stand behind our troops, then we will gladly have you stand in front of them.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: May/05/2008 at 06:54
Keep in mind that when I say 10 - 14X is plenty of magnification for all-day shooting at PDs, of the scopes I'm using, 4 of the 5 top out at beyond 14X (15X, 20X, 24X, and 32X to be exact), and yet, I still keep them set at 12 - 14X most of the time, except when shooting at paper.  I can hit PDs at extended range just as well and have an easier time locating them in the scope and spotting my shots at those magnifications.

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Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: mercenary1947
Date Posted: May/05/2008 at 11:53
pyro6999  ... do you or did you fly the A-10 ?  We / I built them here ....

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One Shot One Kill .... *S.O.F * Head Shots Only
               SWFAM


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: May/05/2008 at 20:41
Originally posted by mercenary1947 mercenary1947 wrote:

pyro6999  ... do you or did you fly the A-10 ?  We / I built them here ....
 
i wish i could have it was on my list of planes to fly in the military, the f-15 and the sr-71 round out my top 3, but i didnt end up going into the military.


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: mercenary1947
Date Posted: May/06/2008 at 14:55
 It amazes me they're still darn lethal . When we built them the military thought they'd only be top dog for 8 years maximum . Everytime I saw an iraqi tank getting splattered I filled up with pride . My family and friends were lucky enough to go to the huge open house and my sons got to sit in one . They're an eye popper up close with that gattling gun hanging out of the nose ... fully armed on the assembly line and out on the flight deck . God I miss those days ....

-------------
One Shot One Kill .... *S.O.F * Head Shots Only
               SWFAM


Posted By: DogBuster
Date Posted: May/07/2008 at 18:48

You should feel the awesome force of an 18 inch gun being fired.  My first duty station was ATRC Dahlgren, VA, home of the world's largest Naval Proving Grounds.  They did all sorts of balistics testing on base.  They would fire massive guns into the Chesapeake bay.  My barracks were over two miles away and I can't tell you how many times I had to pick up broken items because they were violently tossed off the shelves.  While the Navy no longer uses the 16 inch guns, I don't think they want to let go of them.  Just a thought. 



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"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
Ronald Reagan


Posted By: DogBuster
Date Posted: May/07/2008 at 18:50
I went ahead and ordered the Ziess 4.5 x 14 Rapid Z 800.  I appreciate everyone's help.  I will let you know how she she shoots when I get it. 
 
Thanks!


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"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
Ronald Reagan


Posted By: trigger29
Date Posted: May/08/2008 at 09:06
Of course OT members will demand pictures.
 
No%20Pics
 
I think you will be happy with your choice. It will be interesting to see how the reticle works for your cailber. I need to find some dogs to bust with mine too!


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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


Posted By: ccoker
Date Posted: May/28/2008 at 21:14
my 204 Ruger bolt action has a zeiss conquest 4.5-14
it's a NICE scope
While where I live we don't have prairie dogs (damnit!) it sure sounds like a lot of fun...
remember, the Zeiss has a resetable turret, zero in at 200, then sight in at varying differences and use the turret, perhaps a dab with a sharpie to indicate the yardadages, say 300, 400, 500....





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