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Rem 700 VSF -Need to bed action?

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Topic: Rem 700 VSF -Need to bed action?
Posted By: 8shots
Subject: Rem 700 VSF -Need to bed action?
Date Posted: April/22/2008 at 06:19
Can anyone help or advise- the action on my new Rem 700 is very loose in the stock once the two action screws have been loosened. These rifles come with aluminium pillars. The action itself is not however bedded. Other rifles that have been bedded needs a little persuasion or jiggling to pop it out of the stock. Not this one, it falls out the stock.
A gunsmith who put a new Timney trigger on the rifle also commented that this rifle needs to be bedded. I also looked at it. Once the bottom screws are loosened the rifle has allmost 1/4 inch play.
Would you bed the action?



Replies:
Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/22/2008 at 06:26
i would, but i would at least shoot it a little first.

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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/22/2008 at 07:02
Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

Can anyone help or advise- the action on my new Rem 700 is very loose in the stock once the two action screws have been loosened. These rifles come with aluminium pillars. The action itself is not however bedded. Other rifles that have been bedded needs a little persuasion or jiggling to pop it out of the stock. Not this one, it falls out the stock.
A gunsmith who put a new Timney trigger on the rifle also commented that this rifle needs to be bedded. I also looked at it. Once the bottom screws are loosened the rifle has allmost 1/4 inch play.
Would you bed the action?
 
How does it shoot as-is?  I would let that be the determining factor in whether I bed it or not.  Actually, I would probably bed it anyway, just because I bed most of my rifles regardless, but your rifle will tell you whether or not bedding would help.  Look not only at the size of your groups, but the general shape of your groups.  If your groups tend to string on a regular basis, then a bedding problem is the most likely culprit.


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Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: 8shots
Date Posted: April/22/2008 at 08:21
At this stage the rifle is still with the dealer. I do not have my lic yet. I have only shot once with the rifle, which behaved pretty decently given new brass and just a standard load. My thinking was to bed the rifle whilst it is at the dealer, so that when I received it she will be good to go. (Still be there a month or three).
I guess what I am looking for is any advise or opinions on whether the factory job with pillars are meant to be like that, or is it just sloppy work which a bedding job can fix?
 


Posted By: Ed Connelly
Date Posted: April/22/2008 at 08:25
I would bed a Winchester action in a Winchester stock.....Roll%20on%20Floor%20Laughing    just teasing, 8shots!!


Posted By: 8shots
Date Posted: April/22/2008 at 08:55
Ed, you jest tessing. Would never expect that from you.Indiana%20Jones


Posted By: 8shots
Date Posted: April/22/2008 at 08:58
I guess what I am looking for is any advise or opinions on whether the factory job with pillars are meant to be like that, or is it just sloppy work which a bedding job can fix?
 
Or is nothing broken...... don't fix that which is not broken kinda advise....
 


Posted By: Dale Clifford
Date Posted: April/22/2008 at 09:03
It looks like the rifled/action is "torqueing" ------time to bed. Pillars have advantages and disadvantages. bed with marinetex or something comparable spelled in SA.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: April/22/2008 at 09:24
HS precision claims you do not need to bed your action to their stocks because they have that full length aluminum bedding block.  I had your same gun but an earlier version with the black web stock and it shot 1/2 groups without being bedded.  Then I put an adjustable HS precision stock that also claims no bedding is needed but my groups opened up to about 3/4 of an inch.  I then had the action bedded and it is now shooting just under 1/2 inch when I am shooting my best. 
My recommendation is to bed it, it can't hurt anything and most likely it will improve your accuracy.  I talked to several smiths about mine and they all said even though HS says it is not necessary they always recommend bedding them because it will make things tighter and more consistent. 

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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/22/2008 at 09:42

Pillars and/or aluminum bedding blocks and bedding are not mutually exclusive.  The best possible way to bed a rifle action is with the use of both.  The former keeps screw tension from changing due to stock material "crush," and helps with alignment and the latter ensures a tight, consistent fit to the stock.  I have bedded all of my HS stocks, even though they say it isn't necessary, and saw an improvement in accuracy each time I did so. 



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Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/22/2008 at 09:49
Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

I guess what I am looking for is any advise or opinions on whether the factory job with pillars are meant to be like that, or is it just sloppy work which a bedding job can fix?
 
Or is nothing broken...... don't fix that which is not broken kinda advise....
 
 
All factory action and stock fits are somewhat sloppy to one degree or another unless they are hand fit or hand bedded.  HS Precision designs a stock that will work with all Remington actions mated to it, so therefore the bedding block is made to the large end of the diameter tolerance for Remington actions to ensure any action will fit any stock.  So, if the stock is mated with a Remington action at the smaller end of the diameter tolerance, the fit will be more loose.  Without hand fitting, there's no way a separate manufacturer can mass produce a stock with a skin-tight fit to a given action made by someone else.
 
I look at it this way... bedding almost never hurts and more often than not, improves consistency, even if sometimes the improvement is slight.


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Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Dolphin
Date Posted: April/22/2008 at 12:57
When I purchase a synthetic stock, usually a B and C medalist for one of my rifles, I usually do not bed the stock.  Everyone I have purchased, fit like a glove, for one reason.  Secondly, the accuracy has always improved, except for the 300 Wby. that I tried to free float, which is off spec. for the specific Mark V action and stock I was using and once putting a pressure point at the tip, brought it back to 1 inch groups.  It also voids the warranty.  Now, if I bought one and the action was relatively loose fitting, that would be another story, but then I would question the stock and whether I should send it back.  If anything, an after market stock should need some re-tooling to get it to fit.  If I am not incorrect, HS does not bed their rifles and what I am trying to achieve by adding the after market stock is a similar skin tight fit with the action and barrel, without any play, before tightening it down.  The other thing I have found, is that the recommended ft. lbs. of torque for tightening the stock down can affect groups.  B and C recommends 45 and I have found that just a little more or a little less can help, but it may be some what subjective as the rifles are shooting so good and I did not do alot of groups.

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D. Overton


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: April/22/2008 at 16:23
Brother 8, those groups are NOT indicative to what that rifle will do.
  
1) Change powder to Varget with either the 155gr. SMK or the 168gr. SMK
2) BR-2 primers.
3) Shoot!!
 
Try the above and see if your groups don't shrink.
I'd probably still skim bed the action anyway, for the hell of it. (Shrug) 


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: April/22/2008 at 16:28
Don't forget to try 175 SMK's either.  My gun loves those babies.

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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: J!m
Date Posted: April/22/2008 at 16:40

This is interesting...

I was under the impression that if an actio is pillar set into the stock, that it is good to go (no bedding needed).

Now reading this thread, I can see how bedding would not hurt (unless you made a mess of it and touch the barrel) but I don't see how it would improve things.

If the action is moving in the stock, that will be a problem; however if the action does not move in the stock, it should be OK as I see it.

If the action is 'loose' and moves it's position during fire, I wholeheartedly agree that it should be bedded (or a new stock should be purchased) to prevent movement betwen the stock and action.

Am I understanding things correctly here?



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Hmmm... It seems he's suffered from acute lead poisioning...


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: April/22/2008 at 19:03
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Don't forget to try 175 SMK's either.  My gun loves those babies.
 
Not my 12 twist Remington, my friend. No%20No
I know some of you guys get them 175's to shoot and shoot well, but mine won't....hasn't.  
 
155 Lapua Scenars work well. Better for me than the 155gr. MK's.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: April/22/2008 at 19:16
I shot a several 1 1/2 in groups measured to the edges of the holes at 400 yards with 175 SMKs.  I am going to try 185 Lapua Scenar's next, I just ordered a box to try out.

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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Sgt. D
Date Posted: April/22/2008 at 23:40
[QUOTE=J!m]

 

I was under the impression that if an action is pillar set into the stock, that it is good to go (no bedding needed).

If the action is moving in the stock, that will be a problem; however if the action does not move in the stock, it should be OK as I see it.

If the action is 'loose' and moves it's position during fire, I wholeheartedly agree that it should be bedded (or a new stock should be purchased) to prevent movement betwen the stock and action.

Am I understanding things correctly here?

 
 
If a stock comes with aluminum pillars typically that is enough, dependind on how precise everything fits. I think the issue would be that if you weren't satisfied with a rifles performance and had worked on everything such as a variety of loads and made sure the scope and the mounts were not the problem, then bedding would be a reasonable move. For me I will start with bedding because then I know I've started with the best foundation. And from that I want the barrel to free float.


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Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA!


Posted By: 8shots
Date Posted: April/23/2008 at 03:33
Thank you all for a very good response! It is really nice to have good friends who are willing to share their experiences.
Bedding is the way to go and the rifle action will be bedded.Sharp%20Shooter


Posted By: yellowdog
Date Posted: April/23/2008 at 05:46
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Brother 8, those groups are NOT indicative to what that rifle will do.
  
1) Change powder to Varget with either the 155gr. SMK or the 168gr. SMK
2) BR-2 primers.
3) Shoot!!
 
Try the above and see if your groups don't shrink.
I'd probably still skim bed the action anyway, for the hell of it. (Shrug) 
    I agree with cheap, I've got two of these rigs. That thing will do much better than that. Don't get discouraged, every rifle likes it's own "dope".  I have'nt skim bedded either of mine & they shoot great. I would try some different powder & bullet combinations before I would get into the bedding. One thing at a time. Wink

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If you don't want to stand behind our troops, then we will gladly have you stand in front of them.


Posted By: 8shots
Date Posted: April/24/2008 at 09:34
Another answer I found on the BR forum:
 
  http://www.hsprecision.com/new_stocks.htm - H-S Precision website . These H-S Precision stocks feature Kevlar- or carbon fiber-reinforced shells, plus a CNC-milled aluminum bedding block. The integral aluminum block provides a solid attachment for the action. Many shooters report that the H-S stock, even without conventional bedding, delivers better accuracy than a typical factory Remington stock. Most smiths, however, believe that the H-S aluminum bedding block works even better when skim-bedded.


Posted By: Average Joe
Date Posted: April/24/2008 at 15:23
I have the Rem 700 VSF with a H-S Precision stock it shoots flat and true no problems.
Maybe contact  H-S for more advise?



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