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Under ground range

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Category: Firearms, Bows, and Ammunition
Forum Name: Shooting
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Topic: Under ground range
Posted By: pyro6999
Subject: Under ground range
Date Posted: April/06/2008 at 16:09
So my father in law has this idea going on that we can build ourselves an underground indoor range with some of the normal products we work with quite often, ok, thats fine and dandy with me, the thing i need you engineer guys to tell me is this, will there be any strange pressure spikes to deal with?? i realize it will be louder than hell when you squeeze one off, but will being under ground shooting through a tunnel basically, create any funky pressure situations that could damage a rifle??

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"



Replies:
Posted By: lucytuma
Date Posted: April/06/2008 at 16:20

Pyro, don't tell me your going to do this in corrigated/culvert pipe?  Though it just might work, and also serve as a make ship bunker or lieny's cellar.



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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/06/2008 at 16:24
actually we will use plastic culvert its a little cheaper but yeah we were thinking a 36" pipe 300ft long buried about 3ft down and have a light or two on the target end and run the targets down with a cable and a bicycle pedal setup and dig in a small room on one end with the bench and have a set of stairs and a door to keep it warm etc.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: lucytuma
Date Posted: April/06/2008 at 16:33
You know this is going to get real interesting?

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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/06/2008 at 16:37
well we thought if we do it right the neighbors will never hear a thing. we will have about $10000 in pipe though is the bad part.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/06/2008 at 16:39
No, shooting in an underground tunnel has no effect on the rifle whatsoever, and doesn't change the pressures from firing.  The only difference will be that the sound pressure (db) will be higher, but you will be wearing hearing protection anyway, and you can add sound baffling inside the room and the tube.  Are you really going to build this?  It will be very expensive!  Besides the long, powered overhead chain driven track to transport the target  frame downrange, the other things you will need to consider are:
 
1.  You may have to get some kind of environmental permit since you'll be depositing lead underground.
2.  You'll need to install some sort of active ventilation system so that you won't be ingesting lead and the gases from firing.
3.  You'll need to create a drainage system to keep water seeping through the soil from leaking into the tube and shooting room.
4.  The inside of the tube will require lighting at various distances in order to see the target.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/06/2008 at 17:01
ted: here is the plan, we will be using 36" pipe which will be connected so its water tight, we have sandy soil here so water wont be an issue, we will also spray foam the pipe for more sound proofing and also prevention of what little water would ever be around, we are thinking we will have doors on both ends of the tube for venting, we wont have a powered cable system, it will be manually opperated with the aid of some old bike parts, as far as the lead goes, good point there.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RONK
Date Posted: April/06/2008 at 17:30
 
 Are you planning on using plastic pipe?
If you dont need to worry about a waterproof seal, you may wish to compare the cost of precast concrete sewer pipe, it comes in sections, push it together with backhoe.  I have no idea how it compares in cost, though.  Good luck with this project, I think it's a great idea, and seriously considered it myself a couple years ago.  It just wasn't in the budget,then.
 
 edited to add: I just re-read the part where you mentioned  plastic culvert.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/06/2008 at 17:36
Pyro, passive ventilation won't be good enough.  You will need a pretty substantial air handler system to circulate air in and out of the room and create negative pressure inside.  Otherwise, you will have toxic particulates in the air that you will be inhaling. 
 
If you are using plastic pipe, you'd better hope you never shoot the sides of the tube and/or get a deflection, because you will then have an instant leak.  All of the shooting tunnels I've seen had concrete or steel tubes.
 
How are you planning to mount your trolley for the target frame inside the pipe, and how will it be supported?
 
I would recommend you do a lot of research on the requirements for an enclosed shooting tunnel before you commit to the project.  No doubt it would be great to have, but you may find that it's more involved both in complexity and $ than you think.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: silver
Date Posted: April/06/2008 at 17:47
I'd still want a french drain of some sort along the side.  I also think about some Ice and Water shield ran under and over the pipe to help should a round stray.  
 
What about condensation?  Back stop?  or how are you going to keep the thing from filling in at the target end? 


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"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane."   Jimmie Buffet

WWW.formitch.com



Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/06/2008 at 18:01
we will basically be making a small basement at each end like an 8x12 room with icf walls, the trolley will just be a cable and a couple of pulleys really, see this is why i need you engineer guys to speak up and tell me how to do this stuff, digging the pipe in and laying in the ground is cheap since we have the machines to do it, just figuring out the details is the hard part, we could easily get some ventilation fans and put them in the room and vent that way, electric fan is about $500 thats easy, if we dig the pipe in about 4ft or so down we wont have any water issues, frost would be the only concern, but with the sand we have around here even the frost wont be much of an issue. as far as the money goes its not mine to spend im just there for ideas and labor.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/06/2008 at 19:08
I would definitely ditch the bicycle pedal cranking idea and install an electric motor to power the trolley instead.  Do you realize how much hand cranking you'd have to do to move the target frame 100 yards?  Rigging up an electric motor with a belt pulley to a chain sprocket wouldn't be very expensive.  You can rig up a trip switch that turns on lights when the trolley reaches the 50 and 100 yard marks.
 
I don't think a simple fan arrangement will be sufficient to get the air movement you'll need.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/06/2008 at 19:59
SUP-724EXP/Electric%20Positive%20Pressure%20Fans%20for%20Hazmat%2024
i dont think you realize what a fire dept ventilation fan is capable of, i dont think we would be hanging a target frame from the cable, more like a close pin with a target hooked to it

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: silver
Date Posted: April/06/2008 at 21:38
What about a 750 cfm power roof vent fan, 8x12x8=768?  You need to suck the stuff down the pipe.  Two of them would turn the air in the room and the tube in about three minutes.  You would also want some sort of air filter like a furnace filter, just to help keep the mess down. 

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"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane."   Jimmie Buffet

WWW.formitch.com



Posted By: silver
Date Posted: April/06/2008 at 21:42
http://www.snailtraps.com - http://www.snailtraps.com   Something to think about.

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"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane."   Jimmie Buffet

WWW.formitch.com



Posted By: 8shots
Date Posted: April/07/2008 at 07:24
And lay of the Mexican beans and boiled eggs the night before the shoot. A methane gas explosion is not a pretty sight.
 
Good luck with this project.


Posted By: Graysteel
Date Posted: April/07/2008 at 10:28
Tunnels have long been a standard for shooting tests, so the basic idea is sound.

I have to say that I am also a bit concerned about the idea of using plastic pipe for the structure.  A PVC pipe is going to end up with holes from missed shots over time. And as the pipe won't lay perfectly flat I would expect you will need holes along the bottom of the pipe for water to drain from once it leaks into the holes. If you are dead set on using plastic, I would make sure you have a good drain field under the pipe. Concrete pipe would seem the way to go, but I am not an expert on such things.

As for venting, that fan will move a hell of a lot of air (maybe too much), but the key is to make sure the air has only one path to follow. In other words, the fan has to pressurize the first room in order for the air to be forced down the pipe to the second room where said air will vent to the atmosphere.

Just my two cents.







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http://www.whitesounddefense.com/pages/Tech-Articles.html - http://www.whitesounddefense.com/pages/Tech-Articles.html


Posted By: Chris Farris
Date Posted: April/07/2008 at 12:58

Lex (owner of Rifle's Inc.) has built two underground shooting ranges and knows all about what to do and what not to do.  I've shot in his second one and it is very nice.  He does not use a cable or pulley system.  He has a large piece of white card board with a grid system on it that he can change out via an access port above ground.  He has a video camera hooked to a computer that is running some software that recognizes any new shots on the target.  It is tied to some ballistic software as is a chronograph.  As you shoot you can immediately see your group on the computer monitor and the software automatically measures the groups and gives you ballistic data.

The room is about 10x10 and houses all of his reloading equipment so he can work up loads very quickly and easily while testing them.  The actual tunnel is semi sealed off from the room and accessed via a sliding window much like a drive through restaurant.  The room has a built in bench along the wall that connects the tunnel so all you have to do is open the window, put the rifle in the rest (barrel sticks out into the tunnel) and shoot.  The tunnel has several tires suspended in it too but I forgot what their purpose was.
 
I've briefly discussed with him what all is involved as we are looking at doing a 100 yard underground range at our new location and he told me that it is pretty involved and pretty pricey to do it right.  One of the most important things he stressed was to have it properly ventilated because the gas is very toxic. 
 
I would give him a call and ask him some specifics.  He is very busy and a man of few words he also does not have much patience so if you do call him have your question ready and tell him up front you won't take much time.


Posted By: Bigdaddy0381
Date Posted: April/07/2008 at 14:11

This is an great idea. I have actually never heard of it. Food for thought.

 

For the pully system you can use a electric garage door opener that has the screw rod.

For the venalaton system about all you would need it 2 6foot by 6 foot vent fans blowing out at each end and a 4x4 venta loover in the middle for fresh air intake. But you would probably need something moving the air 24/7 to keep it from being so muggy all the time.

 

But that would be a awesome thing to have under the house is a private 100yd range



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P&Z Firearms , Pro gun cleanings and gun repair and wood refinishing.

Ecclesiastes 10:2


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/07/2008 at 17:50
Originally posted by Chris Farris Chris Farris wrote:

Lex (owner of Rifle's Inc.) has built two underground shooting ranges and knows all about what to do and what not to do.  I've shot in his second one and it is very nice.  He does not use a cable or pulley system.  He has a large piece of white card board with a grid system on it that he can change out via an access port above ground.  He has a video camera hooked to a computer that is running some software that recognizes any new shots on the target.  It is tied to some ballistic software as is a chronograph.  As you shoot you can immediately see your group on the computer monitor and the software automatically measures the groups and gives you ballistic data.

The room is about 10x10 and houses all of his reloading equipment so he can work up loads very quickly and easily while testing them.  The actual tunnel is semi sealed off from the room and accessed via a sliding window much like a drive through restaurant.  The room has a built in bench along the wall that connects the tunnel so all you have to do is open the window, put the rifle in the rest (barrel sticks out into the tunnel) and shoot.  The tunnel has several tires suspended in it too but I forgot what their purpose was.
 
I've briefly discussed with him what all is involved as we are looking at doing a 100 yard underground range at our new location and he told me that it is pretty involved and pretty pricey to do it right.  One of the most important things he stressed was to have it properly ventilated because the gas is very toxic. 
 
I would give him a call and ask him some specifics.  He is very busy and a man of few words he also does not have much patience so if you do call him have your question ready and tell him up front you won't take much time.
 
Good suggestion, Chris.  I've talked to Lex Webernick on several occasions and gathered the same thing -- he's a man of few words and seems to have little patience with idle chit-chat.
 
Pyro, see the "contact us" page at the following link for the phone #:
http://www.riflesinc.com/ - http://www.riflesinc.com/
 


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/07/2008 at 18:10
thats the kind of stuff i need to hear fellars thanks for all that, i dont plan to shoot holes in the sides of the pipe, any new guns will be sited in at another location before hand, as far as the water goes i will once again stress that where i live we dont have ground water issues we have some of the most beautiful water absorbing sand you could ever want we put septic systems in this stuff every year and we never have problems with snow melting and flooding the systems so i am very confident that water will not be an issue, as far as the garage door opener goes i was thinking that myself last night i agree with it.
we would use concrete pipe but im pretty sure that 36" precast is more than $35 a ft like plastic pipe is.


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Chris Farris
Date Posted: April/07/2008 at 18:17
You could use your original gear idea and instead of pedaling it, just hook a cordless drill up to it.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/07/2008 at 18:30
hmm yeah that would work too, a grinder may be faster yet, or even a chainsaw or weedeater but then your introducing more fumes into the system, so an electric motor would be first choice i was talking to my brother in law and he said why not use a bunch of ballistic gel to catch the bullets, i said thats a thought.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: lucytuma
Date Posted: April/07/2008 at 18:44

Chris still had the best idea of using a remote camera, truth be told it would probably be  less expensive and a whole lot less labor intensive to install.



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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/07/2008 at 18:55
yeah they are actually cheap, less than $300

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/07/2008 at 19:04
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

...i was talking to my brother in law and he said why not use a bunch of ballistic gel to catch the bullets, i said thats a thought.
 
If you do that, you will have to be constantly making new batches of the stuff.  Ballistic gel has a relatively short life after mixing and even a large block quickly disintegrates after less than 10 shots.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: 3_tens
Date Posted: April/08/2008 at 01:45
I suspect the hanging tires are to reduce the wave generation from the blast. The tunnel will act as a wave tank. The down range pressure slug will return several times before it diminishes. Like on a water line if you do not have a good kicker and shut off the flow the surge will separate even cast Iron pipe. Pressure wave will do more ear damage than the decible level. As a bullet stop a 3/4 plate at a 45 deg angle with a sand or water trap at the bottom. Your shooting booth will need to be partially lined with Egg crate foam to absorb the sound. Another option for the targets is to set up seceral swing down frames. Pull a trip line to release another panel. set up 4 or 5 that just fold down. Or better yet Put targets on a roll like buther paper. have a drive that reels from one spool to the other like the clear screen over the incar cameras used for tv. That would be simple.

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Folks ain't got a sense of humor no more. They don't laugh they just get sore.

Need to follow the rules. Just hard to determine which set of rules to follow
Now the rules have changed again.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/08/2008 at 06:10
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

...i was talking to my brother in law and he said why not use a bunch of ballistic gel to catch the bullets, i said thats a thought.
 
If you do that, you will have to be constantly making new batches of the stuff.  Ballistic gel has a relatively short life after mixing and even a large block quickly disintegrates after less than 10 shots.
i told him the exact same thing, i wasnt sure how well that would work,

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: trigger29
Date Posted: April/08/2008 at 17:07
Originally posted by Chris Farris Chris Farris wrote:

You could use your original gear idea and instead of pedaling it, just hook a cordless drill up to it.
 
I have actually seen this done before to move a backstop for a finish saw in an aluminum plant. They use a screw type to move the backstop, like a garage door. and when the drive quit working we rigged up a cordless 1/2" drill to move the backstop. This was slow due to the weight of the backstop, as they had to use low gear on the drill, but for this it should work great.


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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


Posted By: 3_tens
Date Posted: April/09/2008 at 14:33
Where will you find a 300' screw and if you did how could it be transported? 
 VERY LONG LOAD
Camera is the most economical. Wirless security cameras only $69.  http://www.x10.com/products4/google/security_cameras_main_ps_nox_t3.html - http://www.x10.com/products4/google/security_cameras_main_ps_nox_t3.html


-------------
Folks ain't got a sense of humor no more. They don't laugh they just get sore.

Need to follow the rules. Just hard to determine which set of rules to follow
Now the rules have changed again.


Posted By: Graysteel
Date Posted: April/10/2008 at 08:38
Tires are generally hung in ranges to attenuate the sound of the gun fire. Rubber generally does a pretty good job of muting high impulse sounds. This is one of the reasons you often see stall mats (heavy rubber mats) used on the walls and floors of shooting areas. Hanging tires around the space breaks up and absorbs sound energy. Without going into detail, in general soft/rough surfaces will tend to be less noisy than smooth/flat surfaces. Secondly, the volume of the firing space will have an impact on the sound pressure level in the space. The larger the space the lower the sound pressure levels will be in general. 

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http://www.whitesounddefense.com/pages/Tech-Articles.html - http://www.whitesounddefense.com/pages/Tech-Articles.html


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/15/2008 at 19:52
well we talked some more today about the project and what i need to have you engineer guys figure out what kind of load rating i need to be able to support for up to 2ft of sand on top of the roof. we decided to make it more like a basement and sorta scrap the culverts, we are planning to build it out of icf block and filling them in making the shaft 3-4ft wide and roughly 6ft tall.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/15/2008 at 20:59
Sand weighs approx. 100lb./cubic ft.  So, say you had a 10' X 10' room for your shooting bench setup.  If you had 2' of sand covering the roof, your total static load on the roof would then be 20,000 lbs (200 cu. ft. of sand).  This is for dry sand.  If it rained and the sand was holding saturated water, I don't know what the total weight would be, as it would depend on the level of saturation.

-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/15/2008 at 21:11
so i gotta figure out what i need to do to make a roof thats 4ft wide and 300ft long and be able to support the weight.  the other issue we are concerned with is was types of gases we need  to check levels of while shooting is taking place and what would be the best means to test for these dangerous gases?

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/15/2008 at 21:36
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

so i gotta figure out what i need to do to make a roof thats 4ft wide and 300ft long and be able to support the weight.
 
It's not the total weight you're concerned with, because the weight will be spread over 1200 sq. ft.  BTW, the total weight on top of the tunnel would be approx. 240,000 lbs, but it would only be 200 lbs. / sq. ft load.
 
You would be far better off, and it would be easier and cheaper to just use 36" concrete culvert sections for your tunnel.  There would be no load issues whatsoever and it would be much easier to seal against leaks from water seeping through the soil to the roof. 


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/15/2008 at 21:45
i dont think 36" concrete culvert is cheap, hell plastic up here is over $30 a foot, concrete will be more yet, the roof of it i guess could be at surface too but then you would lose the sound deadening property, 200lbs per sq ft load, i think we can build a roof to handle that, we have plans to keep the water out, were more worried about the frost and and the walls pushing in.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/15/2008 at 21:52
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

i dont think 36" concrete culvert is cheap, hell plastic up here is over $30 a foot, concrete will be more yet...
 
No, it won't be cheap, but it will probably be less expensive and certainly easier to construct than a 6' X 4' X 300' ICF block tunnel, though.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/15/2008 at 21:58
we will call the lumber yard and find out what the logix icf blocks cost

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: 8shots
Date Posted: April/16/2008 at 04:15
As kids we used to build underground rooms down at the river. I was in a farm hostel with some 600 children. Man, we virtually had a whole town underground. We would dig the hole into the soft river sand,at least 12 ftx12ftx8ft deep. We would then put beams cut out of poplar trees (probably 8 inches in diam) and span the roof. Then the roof would be covered with reeds and finally topped with about a foot of sand. The entrance would be via a side cut-out. Nobody knew anything about loads and stresses, but it all worked and we never had a house cave in.
So, a structure as you suggest with treated poles (treated with tar) as roof beams, covered with corrugated iron and then sand will work and last forever.
Your tunnel could also be a trench dug with a back-actor and then covered with poles, corrugate iron and sand.


Posted By: silver
Date Posted: April/16/2008 at 10:26
 It ain't the weight of the sand.  It is the weight of the sand an equal volume of water plus six feet of snow and a dixie chopper.Tank

-------------
"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane."   Jimmie Buffet

WWW.formitch.com



Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/16/2008 at 20:50
well we called the local lumber yard, they wanted $7000 for the amount of icf blocks we need to build this, so we thought ok for less than half of that we can build walls with green treat plywood and green treat 2x6's 1ft on center tar and plastic it and then build our roof using 1" green treat plywood placing it roughly a foot below the ground surface,and see what happens, we are figuring we can do it all for less than $2500 with wood.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: silver
Date Posted: April/16/2008 at 20:55
Try the foundation grade stuff and Stainless screws for longer lifespan.

-------------
"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane."   Jimmie Buffet

WWW.formitch.com



Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/16/2008 at 20:57
we are more worried about the roof than anything, its impairative that we build it strong enough to support the sand and also the potential for 6ft of snow as well.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RONK
Date Posted: April/16/2008 at 21:04
 If  you use ICF blocks, you still have to add the cost of the concrete, including a footer under the walls, plus some serious re-bar, plus the floor, plus the roof, (Span-Crete panels ?)
 Even if you use wood for a roof, there is no way you're going to do this for less than concrete pipe. No way.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/16/2008 at 21:09
acutally if we would have done the icf we were going to try to fill them with sand and see what happend, we called our pipe distributor today and he quoted us $25 a foot for 36" heavwall plastic pipe, galvanized was $10 more per foot, i dont wanna guess what concrete pipe goes for. its $7500 just for the pipe if we went plastic

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/17/2008 at 07:23
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

acutally if we would have done the icf we were going to try to fill them with sand and see what happend, we called our pipe distributor today and he quoted us $25 a foot for 36" heavwall plastic pipe, galvanized was $10 more per foot, i dont wanna guess what concrete pipe goes for. its $7500 just for the pipe if we went plastic
 
If you want your tunnel to last more than a couple years, concrete pipe is your LEAST expensive option, trust me.  It will probably cost you around $40 a foot, but if ya wanna play, ya gotta pay!
 
There is no inexpensive option for building an underground range, Hunter!  If you try to cheap out, you will only waste your money on something that won't hold up and may in fact be dangerous.


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Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/17/2008 at 09:49

Hunter,

When all is said and done, if you build a 100 yard underground shooting tunnel that will hold up to years of seeping groundwater, has a proper ventilation system, enough room for your shooting bench area in front of the tunnel, and has proper lighting, provisions for holding the targets and trapping bullets, I would be very surprised if you can get it done for less than $40K.  Plus, there may very well be environmental regs that require you to get a permit or other compliance requirements for depositing lead in the ground, which can potentially leach contaminants into the water table unless properly contained.  There's no way around the fact this will be a very expensive project.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/17/2008 at 17:01
we have a plan to stop the bullets and be able to remove them and they wont go into the ground at all. we are going to keep this whole project well under $5000 actually, as far as water seepage goes, there wont be any, the sandy soil in this country is such good stuff people have basements on lake lots and dont get water on there floors, even with wood basements there isnt any issue of water from rain or snow entering the structure. the water table here is a long way below 6ft, my well at my house was 60ft deep before they hit water so high water table isnt an issue either. as far as concrete pipe is concerned they get $100 a yard for cement up here, now you tell me how many yards of cement it takes to make a 36" ring thats 300ft long i bet it equals out to more than $7500

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/17/2008 at 22:31
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

we have a plan to stop the bullets and be able to remove them and they wont go into the ground at all. we are going to keep this whole project well under $5000 actually, as far as water seepage goes, there wont be any, the sandy soil in this country is such good stuff people have basements on lake lots and dont get water on there floors, even with wood basements there isnt any issue of water from rain or snow entering the structure. the water table here is a long way below 6ft, my well at my house was 60ft deep before they hit water so high water table isnt an issue either. as far as concrete pipe is concerned they get $100 a yard for cement up here, now you tell me how many yards of cement it takes to make a 36" ring thats 300ft long i bet it equals out to more than $7500
 
Good luck, bud!
 
Things to consider:
1.  When it rains, water absorbs into the ground.  Your underground range won't be far below the surface of the soil.  Therefore, whatever you construct your range out of will get wet on the outside as the water permeates through the soil and contacts your structure.  If you use any perishable, porous material that absorbs and holds water such as wood, the structure will not last very long.  If you use anything that is porous, you will have to do a really good job of sealing it, or water will leak into your tunnel and shooting bench room.
2.  Yes, the amount of concrete will cost you WAY more than $7500, whether you get prefab concrete pipe or have the concrete poured on-site!  I would imagine it would be closer to $15000 for the tunnel alone.  Still, listen carefully when I tell you that it is still the least expensive option for building something that will actually last longer than maybe a couple of years! 
3.  Unless you are able to work some kind of magic or get your materials for a considerable discount, you won't be able to build a functional 100 yard underground range for under $5000 (not even out of plywood and wood framing) or even 3 times that amount, if you want it to be safe and last very long. 
4.  When I talk about depositing lead in the ground, I'm not referring to whether or not you'll technically be able to contain it.  That's not the hard part.  What I'm talking about is that you may very likely have to get an environmental permit and comply to state regulations governing the release of lead.  Government regulations aren't necessarily logical and don't necessarily have any basis in reality.  You may very well have to convince your state natural resources/environmental commission that you are not depositing lead into the soil, which also applies to any dust particles floating in the air inside the tunnel.  This could be a costly venture, depending on your particular state laws.  Assuming you have laws that govern this, and assuming that you bypass them, you will be fined heavily and your hard work will be for nothing.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: 8shots
Date Posted: April/18/2008 at 03:16
Rifledude, does this enviromental issue of lead depositing also apply to above ground rifle ranges? As far as I know we do not have this issue in South Africa.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/18/2008 at 06:15
Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

Rifledude, does this enviromental issue of lead depositing also apply to above ground rifle ranges? As far as I know we do not have this issue in South Africa.
 
In some cases, yes, it applies to whatever and wherever the government feels it has an excuse to tax you.  It may not be an issue depending on local regs that vary from state to state.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/18/2008 at 08:20
there is enough lead in the ground in minnesota naturally that nobody knows the difference so there isnt any permits required, the only lead law is of course in the hunting of waterfowl its illegal to use. as far as the tunnel goes, yes any kind of pipe would be easy to do, but the cost of the pipe is substantial. we work in the business of digging basements and also backfilling them upon completion, so i may not  be pyro6999 p.e. but i do know that wood can safely be placed under ground (when prepared properly) i.e. tar the wood and then attach 4mm plastic to the wood the water will not be able to get to the wood, we do it for carpenters every summer and some wood basements around here have been in the ground for over 50yrs, now we dont like wood basements they are a pain in the ass  to back fill because you must be careful not to push the walls in of course, and block and icf walls are still a prefered method in minnesota, but with the lower prices on timber right now and the low price at the lumber yard i can see people may rethink to save a buck.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/18/2008 at 17:06
Buddy, there's just no way you're gonna buid this thing for $5K or less as you stated.  Just ain't gonna happen!  Quit being hard headed and think about this a little more in-depth; I'm trying to help you here.  The 1" green treat plywood sufficient for a 300 ft tunnel alone will cost you around $4500 for a 3 sided structure (113 4X8 sheets) and $6000 for a boxed in tunnel with floor (150 sheets), and this is just for the plywood BEFORE you add in the 2X6's placed on 1ft centers.  I just checked on prices locally, and I doubt your prices there would be significantly different.  As I said, a concrete pipe tunnel will be cheaper in the long run, more durable over time, and easier to install.  The cost of the project isn't just the tunnel itself; you have to have a room to house your bench and shoot from; otherwise, what's the real advantage of the underground range to begin with?  Besides the tunnel itself, just off the top of my head, you have the tar, plastic, the materials to build the shooting room in front of the tunnel, the bullet trap, the ventilation system fans and ductwork, lighting and associated electrical, the bench, soundproofing material, and whatever you're planning to use to place the target downrange and hold it.  Then, you will obviously need an access hatch to your bullet trap, as well as entry into the shooting room and a system of filtering and collecting any particulates the ventilation system pulls out of the tunnel.  This also doesn't factor in the use of the excavating equipment.  Even if the company you work for will let you use the equipment for free, there is a cost associated with that, if nothing else, fuel.  $5K??????  No possible way!  Like I said, I would be very surprised if you can do it for 6 - 8 times that amount by the time you factor in all your costs!
 
And you'd better make absolutely sure the state won't require a permit to proceed with your project.  Here in Texas, if a facility is built where whatever the state views as toxic materials are handled and disposed of, the Texas Natural Resource Conservation Commission requires extensive permits, which means extensive costs.  Ignorance is no excuse either.  You may very well have no laws that govern the building of an underground range, but you'd better damn well check to make sure before you start construction if you don't want to pay a ton of fines! 
 
I'm just trying to give you a more realistic view of what you're up against here.  I think having an underground range would be fantastic, but it's not inexpensive.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/18/2008 at 17:31
http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/outdoor_activities/shooting_ranges/range_law_q&a.pdf - http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/outdoor_activities/shooting_ranges/range_law_q&a.pdf
and i realize you guys are trying to help me but i have one advantage that you guys dont have, im here and you guys arent, i know what the prices of materials are locally and know what the soils are capable of etc. so if we have time this summer we will try to get this done and when it is i will post pictures. and if i can get the total cost i will throw that out too


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Dogger
Date Posted: April/18/2008 at 17:40
When you get it done let me know what the hours and range fees are, will have to pay a visit.

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God save the Empire!


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/18/2008 at 20:06
my father in law told me a while ago he talked to his cousin who owns a lumber yard and he told him he would sell him the 1/2" ply wood for $7 a sheet and the 2x6's for $2 each  the plastic will cost about $250.
 
dogger the hours will be whenever im awake range fees hmm a beer or two will do me just fine, and like i said if we get her done this summer i will take pictures during the whole process and post them after we finish it.


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: 3_tens
Date Posted: April/18/2008 at 22:07
 1" water resistant plywood was $79.95 last week.I had to buy 4 sheets. Do you think I could get a rail car load at $7.00 That could be a very profitable investment.

-------------
Folks ain't got a sense of humor no more. They don't laugh they just get sore.

Need to follow the rules. Just hard to determine which set of rules to follow
Now the rules have changed again.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/19/2008 at 07:08
this stuff isnt water resistant, but last year when i built my shed i gave $30 a sheet for green treat ply wood which is more than half of what you paid.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RONK
Date Posted: April/19/2008 at 09:40
 
 Pyro- use the time you're  planning to spend on building this plywood contraption, to work  for profit for somebody else, instead.
 Use the money you make doing that, to buy (used ?) concrete pipe. Even 24-inch would work just fine.
  That way you won't need to worry about it caving in on some kid playing on top of it fifteen years from now.


Posted By: nsaqam
Date Posted: April/19/2008 at 10:57
Pyro6999, I live in MN too and my family is heavily involved with Logix ICF as well as home construction. I really like your idea. I would go with the treated plywood covered with the rubber membrane that is used for wood basements and the outside of ICF basements. If wood basements can support entire houses and remain leak free for 15 years guaranteed I'm sure it can support 2 feet of sandy soil and an annual snow load of 6 feet and remain leak free.  Since my father is the Midwest representative for Logix ICF I could get returned and damaged blocks for next to nothing so I was seriously considering building a range of my own out of the back of my barn. If you go with plywood and studs you may want to consider going with an A-frame type tunnel. You'd use less material and waterproofing would be easier because any water would immediately run down the sides instead of sitting on top and possibly pooling there. Backfilling would be easier I would think too.
As for lead contamination, if this became an issue then restrict the range to Barnes or the new Nosler E-tip unleaded bullets. More and more of these types of bullets are going to be emerging in the future. You could have a leg up on everyone else as far as these unleaded bullets go.
I say you go for it and keep us informed. I'd love to see the range in person.
Good luck.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/19/2008 at 14:22
Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 
 Pyro- use the time you're  planning to spend on building this plywood contraption, to work  for profit for somebody else, instead.
 Use the money you make doing that, to buy (used ?) concrete pipe. Even 24-inch would work just fine.
  That way you won't need to worry about it caving in on some kid playing on top of it fifteen years from now.
 
we are in the process of that right now, figure we can market it to be a part of our dirt outfit, selling them to people who have money and like to shoot and have enough land to build one on, we thought hey if it works we could start advertising these things.


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RONK
Date Posted: April/19/2008 at 17:08
Originally posted by nsaqam nsaqam wrote:

Pyro6999, I live in MN too and my family is heavily involved with Logix ICF as well as home construction. I really like your idea. I would go with the treated plywood covered with the rubber membrane that is used for wood basements and the outside of ICF basements. If wood basements can support entire houses and remain leak free for 15 years guaranteed I'm sure it can support 2 feet of sandy soil and an annual snow load of 6 feet and remain leak free.  Since my father is the Midwest representative for Logix ICF I could get returned and damaged blocks for next to nothing so I was seriously considering building a range of my own out of the back of my barn. If you go with plywood and studs you may want to consider going with an A-frame type tunnel. You'd use less material and waterproofing would be easier because any water would immediately run down the sides instead of sitting on top and possibly pooling there. Backfilling would be easier I would think too.
As for lead contamination, if this became an issue then restrict the range to Barnes or the new Nosler E-tip unleaded bullets. More and more of these types of bullets are going to be emerging in the future. You could have a leg up on everyone else as far as these unleaded bullets go.
I say you go for it and keep us informed. I'd love to see the range in person.
Good luck.
 
 
 There's a big difference between supporting a house around the perimeter, with the load transferred straight down onto a footer,  and supporting a load across a span.
 I agree that an A-frame configuration would go a long way, though


Posted By: RONK
Date Posted: April/19/2008 at 17:13
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 
 Pyro- use the time you're  planning to spend on building this plywood contraption, to work  for profit for somebody else, instead.
 Use the money you make doing that, to buy (used ?) concrete pipe. Even 24-inch would work just fine.
  That way you won't need to worry about it caving in on some kid playing on top of it fifteen years from now.
 
we are in the process of that right now, figure we can market it to be a part of our dirt outfit, selling them to people who have money and like to shoot and have enough land to build one on, we thought hey if it works we could start advertising these things.
 
 
 You could have a real niche doing that.  I don't think I've ever seen a contractor specifically advertise underground ranges.  I hope you succeed, and get rich doing it!


Posted By: Bigdaddy0381
Date Posted: April/19/2008 at 18:33
Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 
 Pyro- use the time you're  planning to spend on building this plywood contraption, to work  for profit for somebody else, instead.
 Use the money you make doing that, to buy (used ?) concrete pipe. Even 24-inch would work just fine.
  That way you won't need to worry about it caving in on some kid playing on top of it fifteen years from now.
 
we are in the process of that right now, figure we can market it to be a part of our dirt outfit, selling them to people who have money and like to shoot and have enough land to build one on, we thought hey if it works we could start advertising these things.
 
 
 You could have a real niche doing that.  I don't think I've ever seen a contractor specifically advertise underground ranges.  I hope you succeed, and get rich doing it!
+2 Then he can build us all one for a very low low price.... right buddy?  I hope it works out.It would be way cool to walk into the basement open a door sit at the bench and blam blam blam  and never step out side.


-------------
P&Z Firearms , Pro gun cleanings and gun repair and wood refinishing.

Ecclesiastes 10:2


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/19/2008 at 20:19
well thats what were hoping for here, but ours will be a test run, after we get it right we will offer several options to go with it, if you want a pipe setup that would be an option we are also talking about exanding to doing a 50yd pistol range of the rifle range as well, we could also turn this into a storm shelter for tornado's if needed. the options for this could be limitless really. i forsee us putting some provisions in for a reloading bench right there. and if you guys would like us to come build you one at your place we will fly or drive if you live close enough an gladly build one for you.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Sgt. D
Date Posted: April/19/2008 at 22:17
Sounds like something I saw in Iraq. The fastest thing is concrete pipe but expensive. When they built long tunnels they would dig a trench two feet or more deep depending on if they expected traffic to cross or not and just over 8 feet wide. Then depending on funding they would either pour reinforced concrete or lay wood sheeting down with 2x6 studs about every  foot with blocking. Then they would drive a nail through about every ten feet at the center line of the trench. Then they nailed down 3/4 plywood and rolled a rubber cover on it. Once that was done they would cover it up and grade it so after a month or so you couldn't tell anything was done. While that was being done they would again depending on budget hire some locals to go in and dig under the concrete or wood a 3 foot wide and about 5 foot deep tunnel using the center nails for a guide. As they were digging they would spray a water based sealer on the walls to help strengthen the sides. Thus I discovered that Iraq is a wonder land of tunnels. And they are fast and profecient, and alot of our commanders are still clueless as to how so many IED's are set undetected. Loco
God please help our soldiers. Amen
 
 


-------------
Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA!


Posted By: nsaqam
Date Posted: April/20/2008 at 01:57
Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

  There's a big difference between supporting a house around the perimeter, with the load transferred straight down onto a footer,  and supporting a load across a span.
 I agree that an A-frame configuration would go a long way, though
I totally agree with you about the load carrying capacity and that's why a steep sided A-frame was suggested. The membrane would have a much easier job of shedding water as well because there wouldn't be anyplace for the water to pool up. Far less risk of collapse than a roof over a span too. Plus using standard 8 foot studs with a 4 foot wide floor would make a height of around 7' inside, enough to walk to the other end.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/20/2008 at 17:11
Good luck on your project, Hunter!  What construction method are you planning for the shooting bench room in front of the tunnel?  What are you planning for your bullet trap as well as access to the trap and shooting room? 
 
Once you get finished with yours, let me know.  I will pay all of your travel and equipment expenses, plus a reasonable profit for you to build me one of those $5000 underground shooting ranges, as I can't buy building materials sufficient for the job that cheaply, or even 5X that much.  Excellent


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/20/2008 at 17:43
in your soil i dont think i could either!

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RONK
Date Posted: April/20/2008 at 19:53
 So sell him some of your soil!
 


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/20/2008 at 20:31
good idea $4.20 a gal diesel fuel to texas thousands of times that would be cheap

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RONK
Date Posted: April/20/2008 at 20:52
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

good idea $4.20 a gal diesel fuel to texas thousands of times that would be cheap
 
 That's not your problem as long as you save the receipts....Wink


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/20/2008 at 20:54
yeah thats true, but i dont think ted would wanna pay $1000 for ten yards of minnesota sand when he would need about 1000yds of it

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RONK
Date Posted: April/20/2008 at 21:03
 
Ya never know. Some of those Texas fellas burn their extra money just to be rid of it.  It appears that there can be too much of a good thing...

Don't worry about Ted. You're the one trying to make a tidy profit here!



Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/20/2008 at 21:04
i would still make an hourly wage my boss might make a buck or two though

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: April/21/2008 at 11:27
Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 
Ya never know. Some of those Texas fellas burn their extra money just to be rid of it.  It appears that there can be too much of a good thing...

Don't worry about Ted. You're the one trying to make a tidy profit here!

 
I appreciate the fact you've "got my back" there, Ron!Wink
Loco


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: RONK
Date Posted: April/21/2008 at 17:01
Sorry   I thought you were done with this thread...
                         Boy, is my face red!                                             Big%20Grin               


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/21/2008 at 20:48
ever heard the saying dont mess with texas??

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: helo18
Date Posted: April/21/2008 at 20:52
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

ever heard the saying dont mess with texas??
 
There is a different quote that is coming to my mind! "There are two things that come out of Texas........." Whistling


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To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

GEORGE WASHINGTON


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: April/21/2008 at 21:03
swfa and how bout dem cowboys???

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Sgt. D
Date Posted: April/21/2008 at 21:32
[QUOTE=pyro6999] how bout dem cowboys???     Thunbs%20Up

-------------
Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA!


Posted By: 3_tens
Date Posted: April/21/2008 at 23:33
And Willie

-------------
Folks ain't got a sense of humor no more. They don't laugh they just get sore.

Need to follow the rules. Just hard to determine which set of rules to follow
Now the rules have changed again.


Posted By: silver
Date Posted: April/22/2008 at 07:04
Let's Keep Austin Weird!    Devil
 
Jerry%20Springer


-------------
"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane."   Jimmie Buffet

WWW.formitch.com



Posted By: Charlie-bolted
Date Posted: April/28/2008 at 22:39
check out this underground range, T-Rex is hiding there..
 
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f73/577-t-rex-rifle-recoil-video-accurate-reloading-29896/ - http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f73/577-t-rex-rifle-recoil-video-accurate-reloading-29896/
 


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some days we just get stuck and bogged down, Some days all u can do is smile and wait for someone to kindly remove your butt from the hole you find it wedged into.


Posted By: Crosswire
Date Posted: November/08/2008 at 17:12
Very interesting and sound.   I've day dreamed of doing the same in my pasture.  Yippee
 
For a simple target device, just let a nylon rope lie on the bottom.  Mount a target frame on a plywood "skate board" type trolley device.  (I fear a bicyle chain woud collect a lot of dirt in the chain, and that much chain would be quite expensive itself. Maybe use a simple hand cranked barrel drum device in the shooting house to move the rope and have a large pulley at the far end?)   You might even want a second trolley to carry your chronograph screens.
 
Ventalation is important but it can be modest.  All you would really need is a simple window fan in the shooting room, pointing in.  That will provide a gentle positive pressure  in the firing room and provide a slght air flow into the firing port.  That air can be vented out the far end of your pipe, and waiting for it to clear will give your barrel a chance to cool! 
 
If you bury the tube underground you should need no "sound proofing" or deadening material other than the overlaying dirt itself.  Dirt is good stuff.
 
The only lights you should need is at the end, brightly iluminating the target.  There is nothing to be gained by spacing additional lights along the tube unless you wish to have intermediate target points amd maybe lights for the chronograph screens. 
 
I would reccomend installing a full size "man-hole" type access at the end so you can work on the lights and the turn-around pulley at that end.  With a proper vent, the man hole can also provide a water resistant escape port for the air.  (And, if you want more velocity to the exhaust, you could put another fan at that end too.)
 
Let us know if you do it, and how it works out.  I, for one, am a little jealous!  Big%20Grin


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Sam Colt did more to make men equal than any politician ever did.


Posted By: Tip69
Date Posted: November/11/2008 at 16:51
Any updates pyro?

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take em!


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: November/11/2008 at 20:47
since my daughter was born with the cleft and since the economy hasnt been so great we havent done anything with the range, its still in the design phase and certainly not forgot about.

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Duce
Date Posted: November/12/2008 at 14:47
When you are planning you may want to talk to the Sierra bullet people, they have and underground range in Missouri, it has been operational for some time. They could probably tell you what to consider.
 
Duce  Smile


-------------
Duce


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: November/18/2008 at 00:50
Rather than go to all that trouble and expense how about you get a pellet gun and a pellet trap and set it in the basement or get a compound bow and an archery target.  Ten grand is a lot of money for a project that you could never recover the value from.   There are very few indoor ranges due to the lead in the air being a health hazard.

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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: January/05/2010 at 15:50
I know this is digging up bones and I can't not bring this back up, Pyro, did you ever do anymore with this?


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: January/05/2010 at 15:52
no we havent had time to mess with it. its on the back burner right now, if we could get hooked into a really big job and put some money away it could easily get bumped back up front.

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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: 338LAPUASLAP
Date Posted: January/05/2010 at 21:41

HOPE ALL IS WELL WITH YOUR DAUGHTER WE ARE BACK IN THE HOSPITAL AND i MIGHT TRY TO CALL YOU IF YOU ARE AVAILABLE...i AM BORED OUT OF MY MIND...SOUNDS LIKE A CRAZY IDEA...



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No one


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: January/05/2010 at 23:01
What about putting a bunch of hay bales or boxes of old phone books at one end of the basement and get a  22 bullet trap and bench rest your 22 which would probably cost you more like $200. Less if you used a pellet rifle.  I wonder if it would be legal to build an insulated box like 2 ft square with two small openings say 6 in square   that you might shoot through  which would reduce noise but not actually be a suppressor requireing the BATF tax stamp - not sure if that would be legal or not, or if cans are legal in your state pay the tax stamp and legally acquire one.   

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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: 338LAPUASLAP
Date Posted: January/05/2010 at 23:09
Great suggestion...
 
I use .22lr aguilla super colibri they are a 20gr primer only round that are quite and do not penetrate more than 6 inches I use Two say 4" phone books with hardwood behind them at a slight angle...
 
they are not bad price wise and you can shoot them in the open without much attention I think as little as a pellet gun but try inside first.  They are less than 1/5 the dB of a standard .22lr
 they will not function a semi auto but you can hand load them or  just use a single feed or t- bolt style...I have opened up a 10/22 for easier feeding... put pressure on the extrator and let them fly...


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No one


Posted By: Dogger
Date Posted: January/06/2010 at 07:18
Have shot the .22 in the bsmt quite often using either  LR sub-sonics or CB caps - either is so quiet that you can't really hear upstairs.  Only have 50 ft range but just make the targets smaller - lots of fun in bad weather.

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God save the Empire!


Posted By: SD Dog
Date Posted: January/08/2010 at 15:56
When we were kids, dad took a cardboard box the size of dishwasher (since mom got a new one), and made a BB trap out of it.  Cut a 2' sq hole in the front and used softener salt bags hung on dowel as the stop.  Cut the bottom of the bags off so if a BB went through the 1st layer of the bag but stopped on the 2nd the BB would still fall to the bottom.  Took some other cardboard and made a V in the bottom the tilted to one side so the BBs would run out into a coffee can to be reused.  Shot for hours.  Should really make another one.

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If nobody ever said anything unless he knew what he was talking about, a ghastly hush would descend upon the earth. AP Herbert

Stupidity & ignorance have been the foundation for many certainties.


Posted By: EDITH
Date Posted: January/12/2010 at 04:02
Much depends on the purpose of the line. If they are running it just to move there gas and not service your community than you may get a good check. If they are using it to benefit your community, take what you can get. If you push it they can get a utility easement without paying any compensation to you.

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http://www.themodernman.com/ - Dating Advice


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: January/12/2010 at 10:47
I learned to shoot a pistol using a bb pistol with golf  "T"s as targets inside my room in Jr High.

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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger



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