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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2011 at 19:53
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I hate to ask it but I need some insight from the experts. There quite a few member's at Snipers Hide who say they will never buy a PR scope. This is comming from some of the real experienced shooter's on the website. All I was told from one member that did tell me one thing is that Lowlight "Snipers Hide owner" found major things that go wrong with the scope like the gears stripping out amongst "other things".

Can someone give me some more information on these very expensive scopes please?

Thank you very much,
SV
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2011 at 20:10
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There are reports of the parallax not working if the rings are located in the wrong place(and over tightened). And when they first came out there was a problem with the MTC on knobs(that was fixed quickly). Overall, I am pretty sure the bugs have been worked out of the design. Fore the most part, I believe it was just growing pains of a very ambitious design. I know I really really want one!


 And welcome to the OT!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2011 at 21:10
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Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

There are reports of the parallax not working if the rings are located in the wrong place(and over tightened). And when they first came out there was a problem with the MTC on knobs(that was fixed quickly). Overall, I am pretty sure the bugs have been worked out of the design. Fore the most part, I believe it was just growing pains of a very ambitious design. I know I really really want one!
 

And welcome to the OT!


For the sake of respectful humor, I have been here a lot longer than you have; check out my join date :)

I don't post much I know. I do a lot of reading though. I am going to be having A.J Brown build a .308 for me here in the near future. I am researching glass right now.

Reliability/durability/warranty/functionability are of up most importance. This scope is going to Afghanistan with me and I need something that's going to perform in changes in elevation and temperature in a matter of a few hours.

Happy hunting!
Respectfully,
Sv
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2011 at 21:45
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I know the Premier has been adopted by my Marine Corp... But so was the Schmidt and Bender. I have only looked through these scopes, I have never had a chance to run one.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2011 at 08:32
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as with anything you pays your moneys and takes your chances. any scope can strip their elevation threads if some idiot on the web suggests putting plastic washers under the turret covers to be used as a stop. SH has their share just as any web site. They tried to blow up a vortex over there, but it made it through. I'm just a sports shooter but managed to trash out the elevation turret on one. Unless someone was tallying the defects in the return department how could they possibly know whats going on. Had/used a ph when they first came out, personally thought it was better than S&B and so did my son. (Haven't seen either for a year or so). (He left the 5x25 S&B)
Your criteria for a scope is everybody's, and with all due respect to your upcoming relocation it doesn't change anything. Snipershide folks have insider information based on a commercial need, as with the new coming Nightforce. Personally I don't give a sh*t. Just  a sports shooter but I can wait until everyone breaks them for a year and the products been proven before buying. If your concerned about PH get a USO, they are over there now and can service you directly.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2011 at 10:22
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Info to follow:

1.  Premier glass is exceptional, second only (in my opinion) to Hensoldt - and not by much.
2.  They are built like tanks.
3.  Tanks are built like tanks, and tanks sometimes break down.
4.  There were a few issues with the PR Heritage initially, mostly surrounding the turrets. Those issues have been identified and addressed.
5.  Everyone has personal preference.
6.  I bought my Premier when they were $2,000 - and, at that price, would buy another.
7.  My experiences with Premier have been very positive.



Keep in mind that once something fails in "your" hands, you are less likely to recommend or purchase another.  For this reason, I do not buy or recommend Leupold.  That many buy Leupold is relevant only to the many, I don't care, I don't buy them.

Frank is exceptionally knowledgeable, he is a fellow Marine, and a decent shooter and instructor (so I hear); but he too has personal experiences.  That he doesn't recommend Premier and will not own one doesn't cause me to sell mine or tell the world of Frank's experiences rather than of my own (which have been quite positive with my Premier 3-15.)
All that said, if Frank vehemently claimed a product to be inferior to the competition or garbage in its own right, I too would hesitate; however, I think much of the info you are hearing is second-hand at best.  I don't know Frank's feelings of the Premier other than a conversation 2 years or so ago and what he has posted on the Hide.

I recommend Premier, but at their current price, I more highly recommend Hensoldt (better eye box, slightly better color.)  I own both, I have significant experience with both.    

To each, his own; trust whomever you wish.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2011 at 11:05
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

3.  Tanks are built like tanks, and tanks sometimes break down.
 
Good stuff there!  Do I have your permission to use that gem?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2011 at 12:11
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Sure, seemed an obvious  extension of the "built like tanks" comment everyone uses.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2011 at 16:54
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I know I almost got run over by a tank a couple years ago when the boys were tesing one they fixed they popped up out of the brush across the gravel road in the training area as I skidded to a stop.  Im sure they weren't expecting any cross traffic but that will wake you up. 
 
As for Scopes >>>=====> HEINSOLD  -  buy it and dont look back, if you cant afford that buy U. S. Optics or the Premier and from that day on you can look back and wish you had bought the HEINSOLDT.


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - April/25/2011 at 16:55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2011 at 17:16
Steelvenom View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Info to follow:

1.  Premier glass is exceptional, second only (in my opinion) to Hensoldt - and not by much.
2.  They are built like tanks.
3.  Tanks are built like tanks, and tanks sometimes break down.
4.  There were a few issues with the PR Heritage initially, mostly surrounding the turrets. Those issues have been identified and addressed.
5.  Everyone has personal preference.
6.  I bought my Premier when they were $2,000 - and, at that price, would buy another.
7.  My experiences with Premier have been very positive.



Keep in mind that once something fails in "your" hands, you are less likely to recommend or purchase another.  For this reason, I do not buy or recommend Leupold.  That many buy Leupold is relevant only to the many, I don't care, I don't buy them.

Frank is exceptionally knowledgeable, he is a fellow Marine, and a decent shooter and instructor (so I hear); but he too has personal experiences.  That he doesn't recommend Premier and will not own one doesn't cause me to sell mine or tell the world of Frank's experiences rather than of my own (which have been quite positive with my Premier 3-15.)
All that said, if Frank vehemently claimed a product to be inferior to the competition or garbage in its own right, I too would hesitate; however, I think much of the info you are hearing is second-hand at best.  I don't know Frank's feelings of the Premier other than a conversation 2 years or so ago and what he has posted on the Hide.

I recommend Premier, but at their current price, I more highly recommend Hensoldt (better eye box, slightly better color.)  I own both, I have significant experience with both.    

To each, his own; trust whomever you wish.


Hi Rancid,

Thank you very much for the clarification and outstanding response. I love Premier but I would argue that nobody can see good enough to recognize a difference in clarity between a Premier and a Hendsoldt. You will have to explain that one to me :)

Can somone explain their warranty a little better to me. It's my understanding that their scopes have a lifetime warranty. But every warranty is different. Vortex for example has a unconditional lifetime warranty. In lamen terms, no matter how it happened they will fix it or replace it no matter what.

Against thanks for the responses gent's. I appreciate the good news.

Respectfully,
SV



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2011 at 17:27
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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In looking at scopes side by side, and in varying light conditions, you will see subtle differences in the optics.

ILya Koshkin has done some great reviews of the upper end scopes, I will look for a link.

The primary "characteristics" I look for in glass are resolution (tested with various test patterns, looking for specific details visible in one scope not visible in another), color, contrast, depth of fire, field of view, and low light capabilities. In that, I would say resolution of Hensoldt and Premier are about even. I like the color fidelity of the Hensoldt more, but only by a little. Contrast, about the same; depth of view is actually slightly better on the Premier.

The reason to buy a Hensoldt is that the eye box (the position behind the rifle where the image is perfect) is much more forgiving on the Hensoldt than on anything else I have used. Additionally, some scopes produce an image that seems to go beyond the edges of the tube itself, Hensoldt is one of the few (some swaros do it too.)


Spend some time behind both, and you will note subtle differences. Both are among the best optics made, no noticeable aberrations, clear edge to edge, pristine imges; but with a little time and effort, the character of each glass will come through, and you will appreciate some things more than others.

Neither would be a mistake or waste of money.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2011 at 17:38
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Full disclosure: I'm a Premier owner so I'm favorable to the scope. But that's based on my experience with it. Yes, at current prices, it would be just as good to consider the Hensoldt or S&B. However, give Premier a fair shake. The things you've read on the 'Hide have either been addressed or are because of bias for or against particular brands. I respect Lowlight's opinions but even he has said some things that others, such as Bryan Litz (a highly respected ballistics expert and competitive shooter), have shown to be wrong. No one is an expert on everything. So if Frank doesn't go bananas over Premier that says it is not the best scope for him but it might well work for you. There are people here, such as ILya, who don't think much of NF because of the glass, but the NF I own has always worked like a charm for me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2011 at 14:05
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[/Quote]Can somone explain their warranty a little better to me. It's my understanding that their scopes have a lifetime warranty. But every warranty is different. Vortex for example has a unconditional lifetime warranty. In lamen terms, no matter how it happened they will fix it or replace it no matter what.

Against thanks for the responses gent's. I appreciate the good news.

Respectfully,
SV



[/QUOTE]
Our warranty is lifetime and totally transferable. We will fix or replace the scope at our discretion, however if you let a tank run over it there is going to be a charge as this had nothing to do with manufacturing. BUT anybody that has used our warranty knows that we will take care of the customer always. Our companies heritage is one of customer service and satisfaction.
We go out of our way to make sure you are satisfied.
 
I have spoken to Frank about his comments and you should know his personal experiences were based upon 2 prototypes we sent him when we first started. They are even marked as prototype units. I am working with him to try to get those back and send him one of our new production scopes instead of a prototype. We haven't been able to hook up yet but we will one day.
 
I hope this clears some things up and if you want to discuss some things further please give me a call at 540-868-2044 ext 20 and I will be honest and forthright in my answers.
 
Thanks,
Paul
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2011 at 16:34
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

I know I almost got run over by a tank a couple years ago when the boys were tesing one they fixed they popped up out of the brush across the gravel road in the training area as I skidded to a stop.  Im sure they weren't expecting any cross traffic but that will wake you up. 
 
As for Scopes >>>=====> HEINSOLD  -  buy it and dont look back, if you cant afford that buy U. S. Optics or the Premier and from that day on you can look back and wish you had bought the HEINSOLDT.
I had a similar experience about 40 yrs ago...  was on my motorcycle on a paved road around base- a tank came up over the side from the hill below the road and it looked like about the front half of the tank was airborne right in front of me until it crashed down onto the pavement and on across the road.   I just barely had time to hit the brakes hard, but he cleared the road quickly - he was moving fast... I somehow managed not to crash. 
I think they were Mass. Nat'l Guard, or Reserves or something, as we didn't have an armor outfit at Ft. Devens at the time. Took a while for the pucker mark to smooth out of the seat- cover.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2011 at 16:56
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I wonder if Bigdaddy was driving that day Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/27/2011 at 17:33
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Since, I have been mentioned in this thread:

1) As far as high end tactical scopes go, I did two articles on the subject and I am working on the third one, right now:
My conclusions are in the articles.

2) I have not run into any problems with Premier scopes, so I suspect they were resolved.  I did talk about them extensively with Paul Lange (who posted above) and I would not hesitate to buy a Premier scope.

3) I am not a major fan of existing Nightforce scope because I would like to see better optical quality at Nightforce price point.  However, they are superbly reliable and well built scopes with excellent mechanicals.  It is not that I do not like them, it is rather that I find some of the competition more appealing to me.

4) While US optics makes very good scopes, I did not like some of their "human interface" features, so make sure you handle one before you buy it.

ILya


Edited by koshkin - April/27/2011 at 20:02
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/27/2011 at 17:52
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"tow articles", I missed those.

O, "two", never mind.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/27/2011 at 20:50
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Excellent Job ILYA   Thanks.
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