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Premier Reticles Heritage 3-15X

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2010 at 14:05
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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New 2010 pricing : DAMN!


It's a good scope but
DAMN!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2010 at 14:14
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If you want one, buy from the Sample List.

Fast!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2010 at 17:34
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doubt if the scope jumped that much in quality from first pricing. The reason probably has something to do with the government contract, either taking the production, and your dollar competing, or Premiers belief that if you want something used by the big dogs you got to pay the price. Either way, I think it has and will turn alot of people off on the product.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2010 at 17:40
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As I understand it, the price hike preceeded the gov contract.

I hope they live long and prosper, I do like my 3-15, was considering a 5-25, will reconsider now.

Might go for Vortex Razor, if some issues get resolved.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2010 at 12:14
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Puts it so close to the comparable S&Bs that by the time you've cried over dropping over $2K on a scope what's a few hundred more? What I really see happening is that NF throwing in free rings with their FF1 model will look even more attractive. The only thing I can say is call the dealer to see what they can do for you

FWIW, I think Vortex will take care of any scope that has problems. Still, both they and Premier need to tighten up Q.C. You just don't hear people whining about their NFs.


Edited by jonoMT - January/28/2010 at 12:16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2010 at 16:36
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Yea, I know, but you also don't hear them praising the glass.

If NF put in world-class glass, there'd be no competition - except Hensoldt.

With the new price, I'll probably see what Vortex looks like, or buy another Hensoldt.  Seriously, the Hensoldt is crazy good glass.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2010 at 01:44
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Is that reticle in that Horus scope @ the same thing as a Premier?  Is the difference in the two the glass? seems one could get two of them big Horus for the new Premier Money? I have never looked through either of them just comparing from the SWFA pages. Sure your about to spank me for asking those questions but no joke. Kinda look them same.  Not trying to trash Premier by asking that question. Guess best glass I've seen is Schmidt & Bender PM. Is the Premier for the same money that good?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2010 at 09:40
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The Premier Gen II XR reticle is NOT the same thing as the Horus reticle.

My two Premier scopes have the best glass I've ever seen, and are certainly on par with S&B.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2010 at 09:58
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and the premier has only been out for a couple of years, with short track record. Its point was to compete with SB at a lower cost. For alot of people not needing something like a Premier, vortex, horus, etc will become options at Premiers new price. If Leo, starts putting the extended range glass, goes to the m5 with 4.5x14 ffp, and keeps the price around 1400 (which will mean a low discount for eligible organizations) it will all be over except the filing of Chap. 13s.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2010 at 10:18
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If Leupold does all that, I could become a supporter again...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2010 at 10:32
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I too would buy a Loopy, if the scope was worthy.

Fuddy, I don't want you to feel compelled to not speak, fearing I might take a swipe at you, then I'd criticize you for not talking out of fear.  (Seriously, ask what you wish, I won't come down on you.  If you tell me your Yugo is faster than my Ferrari, I will vehemently disagree, but nothing personal.)

I agree that Premier's steep increase makes the landscape a little interesting.  Fortunately, the landscape ain't what it was 3 year ago, when the only choices were S&B, NF, and USO.

To my eyes, the Premier glass bests the S&B by a narrow margin.  S&B was (probably mostly due to the Marine Corps contract) considered "king of the hill."  Premier is now challenging that status - and rightly so.


In all truth, and this is with all players accounted for: at $3000, it begins and ends with Hensoldt, game over.  Till someone comes out with something that competes at that level, my $3k business goes to Hensoldt.

At $2K, it might go to Vortex now, it might go to NF F1, not quite sure at the moment.  Premier OWNED $2k, Nightforce stepped up (with F1 and non-F1 zero stop) and Vortex with the new Razor.

In the end, with Premier having the new contract, it will probably be like it was for S&B 5-7 years ago: top dollar when you could get them, and you could almost never get them.

The silver liniing to all this is that MANY more companies saw the $$$  in this market and decided to make a great scope to compete in this segment.  For those of us in the tactical rifle/tactical glass market, this is fantastic news for us.  Competition is our friend!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2010 at 13:37
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I think what you may be talking about Fuddy is the fact Premiers are available with a Horus reticle.  Yes, that is the same as you can get in Horus scopes but you cannot get the Premier GenII, GenIIXR, etc in Horus scopes.

My experience with Horus scopes is limited, but they strike me as "OK" mid-level scopes with a very expensive reticle.  The scopes themselves are nowhere in the class of Premier.

As for the glass on the Premier, I found mine just a tiny bit better than my 3-12X50 S&B PMII.  The zoom range was more versitile as well.

As for the price increase, I feel the Premiers are still well worth the price.  They are that good.  However, they are no longer the slam-dunk choice they once were.

Interesting Leupold was brought up.  I would like to applaud them for finally offering M5 knobs.  They finally offer the 4.5-14 in FFP.  The TMR is an extremely nice reticle.  That's basically the exact scope I and everybody else wanted a decade or so ago.

But now that they finally make it and others in that line, the competition has left them behind.  When the equivalent PST will go for about 1/2 the price I can't think of a single reason one would buy a Leupold--unless you're military or police so you get the gigantic discount.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2010 at 13:56
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Originally posted by Jon A Jon A wrote:

I think what you may be talking about Fuddy is the fact Premiers are available with a Horus reticle.  Yes, that is the same as you can get in Horus scopes but you cannot get the Premier GenII, GenIIXR, etc in Horus scopes.

My experience with Horus scopes is limited, but they strike me as "OK" mid-level scopes with a very expensive reticle.  The scopes themselves are nowhere in the class of Premier.

As for the glass on the Premier, I found mine just a tiny bit better than my 3-12X50 S&B PMII.  The zoom range was more versitile as well.

As for the price increase, I feel the Premiers are still well worth the price.  They are that good.  However, they are no longer the slam-dunk choice they once were.

Interesting Leupold was brought up.  I would like to applaud them for finally offering M5 knobs.  They finally offer the 4.5-14 in FFP.  The TMR is an extremely nice reticle.  That's basically the exact scope I and everybody else wanted a decade or so ago.

But now that they finally make it and others in that line, the competition has left them behind.  When the equivalent PST will go for about 1/2 the price I can't think of a single reason one would buy a Leupold--unless you're military or police so you get the gigantic discount.

I am not exactly a Leupold fan (I know you are now all totally shocked after that admission), but I think/hope that Leupold may finally have seen the threat from competition.  I finally some innovation in what they are trying to do and I hope it will permeate through their product line.

That having been said, I think Vortex Raxzor HD and Viper PST, couple with SWFA's S.S. line are making things difficult for just about everyone in the "less than" Hensoldt, Premier, S&B market.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2010 at 14:13
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ILya I believe them busy reticles are real pretty and all and in the scope of technologically crafting them I am sure that in all that busy-ness they actually do in some way improve a very very long distance shooters ability to accurately hold for very long distance shooting.  But by the time you get a Degree in how to use it the WAR is going to be over. Are they raising that price to basically tell the public to back off since they have a military following over night or is the demand world wide for a product that has seen an improvement to justify a one year brand new product price hike of 30% really that big? Maybe if they are like Trijicon and do have BILLION DOLLAR DOD contracts they really are that good? Like difference between a H1 Hummer and a Z-71 p/u?  Who in the real world....Blah, Blah, I sure would like to have one though.  Better get one of them new Leica's though before they're 3,000 DOLLARS!!! too.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2010 at 15:41
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Originally posted by FuddyDudd FuddyDudd wrote:

ILya I believe them busy reticles are real pretty and all and in the scope of technologically crafting them I am sure that in all that busy-ness they actually do in some way improve a very very long distance shooters ability to accurately hold for very long distance shooting.  But by the time you get a Degree in how to use it the WAR is going to be over. Are they raising that price to basically tell the public to back off since they have a military following over night or is the demand world wide for a product that has seen an improvement to justify a one year brand new product price hike of 30% really that big? Maybe if they are like Trijicon and do have BILLION DOLLAR DOD contracts they really are that good? Like difference between a H1 Hummer and a Z-71 p/u?  Who in the real world....Blah, Blah, I sure would like to have one though.  Better get one of them new Leica's though before they're 3,000 DOLLARS!!! too.



I do not think that I said anything about Horus reticles (I assume that you are referring to them by "busy reticles") in this thread, so I am not sure why this is addressed to me.

Still, if you do not like Horus reticle designs, do not buy them.  Most scopes out there that offer Horus reticle are also available without them.  I fail to see what all the conundrum is about.

As far as Premier prices go, in the end prices are set by the market.  If their current prices are too high, they will not sell enough scopes and will have to lower them again.  If they sell enough scopes with new pricing, then they set the prices correctly.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2010 at 16:25
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Agreed.

I'm just glad I bought mine BEFORE the price increase.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2010 at 16:30
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Agreed.

I'm just glad I bought mine BEFORE the price increase.


Exactly.  You took the risk of being an early adopter, but you paid less than the more risk averse people who wanted to wait for a year.

Personally, I think the Premier price is a little too close to Hensoldt price territory at this point, and I might just bite the bullet and go for the Hensoldt, but that is a personal choice.

On the other hand, Premier's 1-8x24 might do very well.  I liked the prototype and it looks like it might be marginally cheaper than competing 1-8x designs from Leupold and S&B.

ILya

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2010 at 18:28
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Can't wait to see the 1-8X, I "need" one of those!
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