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predator or nighthunter

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2005 at 17:45
bhaven View Drop Down
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Which one is better in low light, steiner's predator or there night hunter in the same magnification.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2005 at 09:33
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The night hunter is supposed to be running HD (better) glass.  The big thing with the Predator is that the coatings are optomised for browns and reds seen in game animals.     I have a guess as to the paper answer, but what you personally can see YMMV.

 

Maybe the guys who run the place can pass on some product knowledge (Hint, hint)? Do the night hunters have the same spectrums of coatings? Do the Predators have the HD glass?

 

What makes the Night Hunter better than the older Hunter series?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2005 at 17:45
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The Predator line (as already mentioned) was designed to "draw out" the reds and browns normally associated with game animals making them easier to spot and identify. Its coatings are therefore intended to work during daylight hours when colors are discernable by the eye.  As it gets darker your eyes switch to a different mechanism for sight (a rods vs. cones issue too involved to go into right now) and lose the ability to distinguish colors - including the aforementioned reds and browns.

 

The NightHunter line was designed specifically for low light performance. Its coatings are designed to maximize light "transmission" and allow the hunter to continue hunting for as long as possible.  Thus, of the two options in the original question (neither of which are likely the best choice for the intended purpose) the NightHunter would be the better option for low-light performance.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2005 at 22:11
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Not exactly sure what lucznik is referring to, but I can tell you from first hand experience that the 8x42 Predators that I own are very bright and work as intended throughout the day. The Nighthunters are their low light specialty glasses and are theoretically brighter than a comparable Predator. Whether the eye interprets color ( light ) differently with varying light has nothing to do with the function of the Predator lens coatings. In the Steiner Predator posting, it appears that "okokdude" and "chasseur106" feel the same as I do about their Predator bino's.

Edited by Roy Finn
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2005 at 13:28
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O.K. now that I have a few more minutes I will try to pull some information that will better explain the rods vs. cones issue:

The retina contains two types of photoreceptors, rods and cones. The rods are more numerous, some 120 million, and are more sensitive than the cones. However, they are not very very sensitive to color. The 6 to 7 million cones provide the eye's primary color sensitivity and they are much more concentrated in the central yellow spot known as the macula.

Measured density curves for the rods and cones on the retina show an enormous density of cones in the fovea centralis. The cones are responsible for all high resolution vision. To them is attributed both color vision and the highest visual acuity. On the other hand, the rods are absent from the fovea. At a few degrees away from it their density rises to a high value and spreads over a much larger overall area of the retina. These rods are responsible for night vision, our most sensitive motion detection, and our peripheral vision.

As mentioned, rods are not very sensitive to color and this is most pronounced in their almost complete lack of response to red light. This leads to some interesting phenomena. Take for example a red rose at twilight: In bright light, the color-sensitive cones are predominant and we see a brilliant red rose with somewhat more subdued green leaves. But at twilight, the less-sensitive cones begin to shut down for the night, and most of the vision comes from the rods. The rods pick up the green from the leaves much more strongly than the red from the petals, so the green leaves become brighter than the red petals!

A ship's captain typically has red instrument lights. Since the rods do not respond to red, the captain can gain full dark-adapted vision with the rods with which to watch for icebergs and other obstacles outside. It would be undesirable to examine anything with white light even for a moment, because the re-attainment of optimum night-vision may take up to a half-hour. Red lights do not spoil it.

This same phenomena would apply to the coatings on the Predator binocular.  The red (and brown – which is a color largely made up of red light) which the Predator is designed to enhance so as to make game animals stand out better are not seen by the rods in low light, which would serve to neutralize the value of the binoculars color-enhancing coatings.

This doesn't mean that you won't be able to see game animals using a Predator binocular in low light - it just means that they will not perform any better than any other binocular as their special coatings will provide no benefit. Thus the NightHunter, with its coatings which are designed to maximize overall light "transmission" would likely be the better choice if/when low-light performance is the only consideration - as was the case with the original question posted. This is not a matter of speculation or opinion, it is a simple fact of physics.

 

(p.s. the technical information posted was taken from hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu )

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2005 at 15:00
lucznik View Drop Down
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I just found some information on the Steiner website that is going to make me alter a little bit what I have previously posted. 

 

Steiner claims that their Predator coatings work not by enhancing the reds and browns (as I had previously understood) but rather by muting the greens and blues.  Although this appears to the eye to have much the same effect as the loss of green and blue light causes the reds and browns to appear more vivid, it has by its nature some other, not so desireable consequences.

 

As mentioned above the rods in the eye are not very sensitive to color.  Now as white light is simply a mass of all of the color wavelengths seen together it must be understood that the rods must respond to some color wavelengths, or they would not be able to see at all. In fact rods are most sensitive to the color blue (though still not nearly to the degree that the cones are.)

 

Herein lies the salient point; as stated before rods are (almost) totally blind to red light, thus nullifying the Predator's red enhancing effect in low light. But, because the Predator coatings work by muting the colors blue and green (rather than somehow directly enhancing the red and brown) and because the rods of the eye are most sensitive to blue and thus primarily use this color for night vision, the effect of muting the blues would by default, cause the Predator binocular to be dimmer in low light than it would have been if it did not have its special "game finding" coatings.  And certainly dimmer than any binocular of comparable quality that does not similarly use coatings designed to block the green and blue colors. After all, it just goes to reason that any binocular that uses coatings to block certain elements of light could not be as bright as a binocular whose coatings are all designed to maximize the "transmission" of all available light.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2005 at 15:30
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Lucznik, thank you for this last post.You saved me from a whole lot of slow typing. I could not have explained this any better than you did here. Many people are under the misunderstanding about the way that the Predator coatings actually work with regards to enhancing the red/brown color spectrum by , as you acknowledged, muting the blue/green wave range. I don't fault them, because it sounds like the logical result of trying to tweak one area thus compromising in another. I will use your post as a reference to those of lesser knowledge in this area.

Edited by Roy Finn
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