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Precision Rifle Class

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2008 at 13:49
supertool73 View Drop Down
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Well I finally pulled the pics of my camera from my classes at Front Sight.  I took two four day classes one in March and one in April.

The class in March 90% of the time was spent getting data for our guns and learning how to log it.  We spent most of the time on the 400 yard range getting our zero's, shooting groups and learning the affects that happen to our rounds based on the time of day, the temp, cold bore clean cold bore and wind.  We also learned what our rifles are capable of as far as accuracy and what we were capable of as shooters.  We spent time talking about bullet choice for different types of shooting whether it is hunting big game, varmints, man, or target.  Rifle choice, caliber choice, and scope choice.  Most of the Front Sight instructors are Leupold fanatics so I had a good time dogging Leupold and giving them a hard time about their poor glass.  But when my IOR got the spots on the glass they dished it right back Big%20Grin  It was a lot of fun, we learned a lot and had fun doing it.
 
We shot a skills test at the end of it from standing at the low ready at 15 and 50 yards and making quick first shots and ready for a follow up shot all the way back to 400 yards for body and head shots.  We were timed on everything and so it added a bit of stress to it.  Making all your hits would earn you a zero score.  I scored a 5 because on the 50 yard shot I forgot about my safety (this is my first and only bolt gun so I'm not used to using it up there is my excuse) and we only had a few seconds so I ended up rushing the shot and missed the vitals after I got my safety off.  Oh well, I still earned the distinguished graduate award which only about 5 of us got out of the 30 or so students.

The second level class I took in April.  This class was a blast, there was only about 10 of us so we got a lot more 1 on 1 time with the instructors.  We spent the first half of day one reconfirming our zeros and our data from the first class out to 400 yards.  Then during the rest of the days were able to do a lot of different and fun things.  We got data on the 600 yard range and it quickly became apparent to all of us how difficult it is to call the wind correctly.  There were times when you could see the mirage blowing 3 different ways between us and the targets.  It was a great learning experience as far as seeing how the wind affects our rounds and also seeing the risks and difficulties in making shots at that distance and beyond and being able to make first round hits. 

They also taught us how to draw maps of our shooting areas.  Elevation type maps and eye level maps.  We used compasses to get out bearings and to mark significant objects.  Then the next day we went out to the shooting area and got to use someone else's maps as data for engaging the targets.  That was very interesting, needless to say most of us were not making first round hits based on the map data we were using.  So it was a good experience. 

We spent a lot of time in shooter spotter teams shooting at targets at unknown distances on what they call Snipers point.  They had targets from about 100 yards all the way out to 1200 and beyond that we could range with our reticles and attempt to make first round hits.  It is was a lot of fun spending the time and making all the correct calls and popping off shots and watching the impact as your bullet smacked the steel. 

They have a big repelling tower you can see in one of the pics I am posting at the end and we got to climb up to the top as shooter spotter teams and learn about angles.  They had some very close tagets that were right below the tower and off the cliff to the edge of the tower that were over 100 ft down from where we were and about 100 yards out.  They also had targets out to about 700 yards that were also greatly affected by the angle of our shooting position. 

On day four we got to do a couple stalks.  Nothing really serious and slow, but we worked with a partner and had to sneak down this long canyon and pick the best route to stay hidden and be able to find and identify the targets without them seeing us. 
On the second one there were 4 targets of opportunity that we had to take out in completely different areas.  So we had to carefully sneak into our positions which ended up not allowing us to stay together as a team and take out the targets at the exact same time with the first shot and follow up with a quick second shot on the second targets.  Then we had to quickly reverse our direction and get out of the shooting zone quickly and safely. 

The instructors that were there were awesome.  Ben Stairs was a Marine scout/sniper for 9 years and severed 14 tours in the middle east.  He really new his stuff, his knowledge of movement and what works and doesn't work was amazing.  We spent a lot of time just talking and him sharing experience with us.  He was great.  Scott Hoerener was a marine rifle instructor for may years and had a lot of knowledge to share as well.  Gary Hubard is a master level tracker from Georgia I believe and was able to teach us a lot about tracking and do's and dont's of movement.  Ken Gillett while not being military is an amazing marksman and can read the wind and environment very well as was able to teach us a ton about that.

All in all the classes were fantastic and I learned a ton.  While most of the stuff we learned was about a snipers role pretty much everything can be taken right into the hunting sport as well, which is what I will use it for. 

Anyway here are a few pics.



This is at 500 yards to the targets


This is the view from snipers point.  They have targets out to about 1500 yards and then to the right of the pic they have some out to 2500 yards for the big bores


Snipers point again.


Here you can see the tower we were shooting off of in the background




Edited by supertool73 - May/29/2008 at 16:52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2008 at 16:41
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Very cool!! I'd love to go to a school like that.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2008 at 19:00
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 That looks like fantastic training and great fun!  I love that view looking down that dry wash! 
 Were most of the students equipped with mil-dot reticles? 
 Most popular chambering the .308?
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2008 at 19:08
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Everyone had Leupold MK4s except me in the second class.  One guy had a 300 Win mag in class 2 and everyone else was .308.  They all had mildot or TMR

In the first class we had Leupolds, nightforce, IOR, Super Sniper, Nikon, Barska, and one of those black ops scopes that keeps changing names all the time.  The barska and that one did not do to well.

Most of the students had 700 PSS, VS, Sendero, or LTR.  There were a couple Styers, and a couple DPMS AR's in .308, and a couple FN SPRs in .308

The guys using the Leupolds when they looked through the Nightforce scopes and my IOR were shocked at the quality glass.  It was pretty funny to see their reactions.  They tried to hold their reactions  in being Leupold fans and all, but I think it opened their eyes a bit.


Edited by supertool73 - May/29/2008 at 19:09
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2008 at 19:14
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 Did you do any twilight or night shooting?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2008 at 19:18
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Ya, we did both.  Once it got dark we got to shoot 1 gallon jugs that had (damnit I can never remember the name it starts with a T ) that explosive stuff taped to it.  They were from 300 to 350 yards out. They set up some flares around the targets, it made it pretty tough as the shadows from the flares were dancing all over the place.  It was pretty fun.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2008 at 19:45
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Is tannerite the explosive?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2008 at 19:49
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Originally posted by Average Joe Average Joe wrote:

Is tannerite the explosive?


Thats it Excellent, I kept thinking termite.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2008 at 19:54
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Click,Click..................KaBOOM!!!

Edited by Average Joe - May/29/2008 at 20:02
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2008 at 20:04
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You should try it strapped to a can of gas.............omfg.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2008 at 21:19
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If you don't mind me asking, how much did the classes cost, and what equipment did you have to bring other than rifle and scope? How many rounds did you fire?Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2008 at 21:33
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I have a two lifetime memberships for Front Sight that cost me about $10,000.  I can take all the classes they offer forever.  But if you were to just buy a 4 day class they are $2000.  Crazy I know but that is to get people to buy memberships I guess.  Also you have to pass the practical rifle class skills test with a distinguished graduate grade before they will let you into the precision classes.  That typically takes people several tries through that class.  So if you were to just pay for the classes it could cost you a bundle.  They have all kinds of membership levels you can buy that have different amounts of classes you can take.  Once you become a member they have upgrades that they sell to current members occasionally that are really good prices that is how I got my membership that includes everything for $5000, typically they are a lot more than that.

Required equipment was 400 rounds match grade ammo of the same lot for each class.  308 or larger caliber.  Scope with resetable windage and elevation adjustments.  Sling, bipod, adjustable cheek piece of some sort.   Drag bag, Binos, eye and ear protection, Cleaning kit. 

Optional stuff, rangefinder, spotter, knee elbow pads, rear bag, shooting mat, wind meter.


Edited by supertool73 - May/30/2008 at 13:23
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2008 at 04:29
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Nice report Supertool. I would love to do something similiar. Strangely, sniping was never a big thing in the old South African Defence Force. Nothing that i was aware of anyway.
I will tell you a true story though:
We, as the Citizen Force, or old boys, as opposed to the National Force, (The national force was the guys being called up for the first time doing their basic training-typically the 18 to 20 year olds, as oppose to the "Ou manne" or old men. Those that have done basics and were in the 22to 35 years age group)
Well we "ou manne " were doing a 3 month border stint, and assighned to us was two National Force Marksmen or snipers. They kept pretty much to themselves, allways carrying their rifle cases with scoped I think .222 rifles . At that stage of my life I was not too interested in rifles and took little notice. Anyway, after about 2 months we were all a bit "bossies" or rather rough and tough. I was a platoon leader and my sargent a fairly athletic dude. So, being a bit bored the one day he called the snipers across and said, Come show us what you can do. So we they put up a beer can about 75 yds away(which was all the distance we could find in the bushy flat terrain. Off course they hit the cans. To which my sarge said;That is nothing, watch this (and we all know what that means). So he got his mate to stand at 75yds with a beer can on his head, and shot it off his head using the Army R1 rifle. Now this is a 7.62mm (308) FN semi auto rifle, with combat style peep sights!
Man, and we all thought nothing of it, just told the snipers to get real. All in a days work! But the bush and the fighting does strange things to people....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2008 at 11:39
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Is " precision rifle" a specialized / custom course - it does not seem to be listed on their web site - at least not for the next few months --.

sounds like a lot of fun Iwaana go!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2008 at 11:40
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They usually only offer PR1 and PR2 once a year.  This year they are offering PR1 twice.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2008 at 12:24
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Interesting report supertool.
 
Geez 8shots don't know if I'm up to drinking/shooting with you ou manne!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2008 at 18:05
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Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

Nice report Supertool. I would love to do something similiar. Strangely, sniping was never a big thing in the old South African Defence Force. Nothing that i was aware of anyway.
I will tell you a true story though:
We, as the Citizen Force, or old boys, as opposed to the National Force, (The national force was the guys being called up for the first time doing their basic training-typically the 18 to 20 year olds, as oppose to the "Ou manne" or old men. Those that have done basics and were in the 22to 35 years age group)
Well we "ou manne " were doing a 3 month border stint, and assighned to us was two National Force Marksmen or snipers. They kept pretty much to themselves, allways carrying their rifle cases with scoped I think .222 rifles . At that stage of my life I was not too interested in rifles and took little notice. Anyway, after about 2 months we were all a bit "bossies" or rather rough and tough. I was a platoon leader and my sargent a fairly athletic dude. So, being a bit bored the one day he called the snipers across and said, Come show us what you can do. So we they put up a beer can about 75 yds away(which was all the distance we could find in the bushy flat terrain. Off course they hit the cans. To which my sarge said;That is nothing, watch this (and we all know what that means). So he got his mate to stand at 75yds with a beer can on his head, and shot it off his head using the Army R1 rifle. Now this is a 7.62mm (308) FN semi auto rifle, with combat style peep sights!
Man, and we all thought nothing of it, just told the snipers to get real. All in a days work! But the bush and the fighting does strange things to people....
 
 Did you happen to have any guys in your unit named "Roland?"
 
 (Turn up the sound!)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2008 at 20:14
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Sounds like a great class, Supertool!  I'm sure you had a great time!
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