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Precision handloading question

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2009 at 12:08
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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I've settled on the load I'm going to use for a western pronghorn hunt later this year. I'll be using a 140 gr. Hornady SST out of  a .270 WSM. I was just getting ready to load some, and of course want to take the best loads that I can turn out. I was just wondering how much case weight affects accuracy, and how much variation is acceptable? Right now I have case weights ranging from 233.6-236.6. I don't think three grains is a lot, but since I have ocd, I have to check with the experts before loading them. I have about 400 cases to choose from, so I could probably find better matches, if need be.
 
Also, how critical is primer seating depth? I uniformed all the primer pockets thinking this would help, but right now I'm seating them .004 deep, but once in a while I get one thats .003,or .004. Those will not cause flyers will they? Keep in mind that I think a flyer is something that lands 3/4" or maybe less outside the group.
 
I just want them to be perfect. I'm sure I'm not the only one here with OCD.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2009 at 12:34
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its for hunting, so i wouldnt spend a lot of time worrying about it. if you were stepping to the line to face off with david tubb then it would be another story.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2009 at 12:43
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 Both Sinclair and Bob Jenson(yrs back had the task of producing 250,000 rds of ammo for the Palma Match),suggest + or - 1 1/2% max of avg weight of your casings. Most casings of the same brand aren't going to vary that much,as you've seen, to make a diff in a factory production rifle. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2009 at 13:22
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

its for hunting, so i wouldnt spend a lot of time worrying about it. if you were stepping to the line to face off with david tubb then it would be another story.
 
When I hunt it's about like that.Big Smile Pick out the hair that you want to hit. Aim small miss small you know. Sounds like they'll be alright. I didn't think 3 grains was going to be enough.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2009 at 13:25
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i dont think so either. if it makes you feel better you could always separate them out and load a certain batch for practice and another batch for hunting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2009 at 13:30
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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I'm going to load about 50. I'll take the top twenty for hunting, and the ones that don't make the cut will be long range practice for hunting. If I can hit with those, I should be able to hit with the good ones.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2009 at 13:33
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i agree
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2009 at 13:33
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 Hey,it doesn't hurt to check them! I remember when I got my first 20 .300H+H casings(I make my .300 casings from them)from an older box of Remington ammo.  Tore the cartridges down and found that casing wt varied alot(may have the info somewhere)and powder charges varied alot as well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2009 at 13:37
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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I tend to wonder what kind of tolerances the factory ammo holds. I would guess that they can't produce ammo as consistant as mine? Most of the seating depths, and such I can measure, but what about powder charges?
 
I need to learn the art of getting loads that have very small extreme spreads in velocity. Some of mine are not very good.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2009 at 13:39
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hard to do, powder and primers and bullets all have a lot of variables you have to contend with.
factory ammo must meet saami specs
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2009 at 13:43
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 It's also been shown that ES doesn't necessarily mean small groups. Hope I don't need to find the articles if I'm taken to task! Just finished looking up something and mags are everywhere.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2009 at 13:48
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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No, I understand that, but if your ES is like 80fps, I would think the drop between the fastest shot, and the slowest shot would be quite different.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2009 at 13:52
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Max Point blank range is 293 yds when zeroed at 249 yds.
Range
yds
Path
in
ComeUp
clicks
Velocity
fps
Energy
ft/lbs
Momentum
lb ft/s
ToF
sec
Windage
in
Windage
clicks
Optimal
Game Wgt
Muzzle -1.5 Infinity 3000 3597 77.14 0.000 0.0 NaN 1312
25 -0.1 1 2943 3462 75.68 0.025 0.0 1 1239
50 1.1 -8 2887 3330 74.23 0.051 0.2 1 1169
75 2.0 -10 2831 3203 72.80 0.077 0.4 2 1103
100 2.6 -10 2776 3080 71.39 0.104 0.7 3 1040
125 2.9 -9 2722 2961 70.00 0.131 1.1 3 980
150 3.0 -8 2669 2846 68.62 0.159 1.6 4 924
175 2.7 -6 2616 2735 67.26 0.188 2.2 5 870
200 2.1 -4 2564 2627 65.92 0.217 2.9 6 819
225 1.2 -2 2512 2522 64.60 0.246 3.7 6 771
250 0.0 0 2461 2421 63.29 0.276 4.6 7 725
275 -1.6 2 2411 2324 62.00 0.307 5.6 8 681
300 -3.6 5 2362 2229 60.73 0.338 6.8 9 640
325 -6.0 7 2313 2138 59.47 0.371 8.0 9 601
350 -8.7 10 2265 2050 58.23 0.403 9.4 10 564
375 -11.9 12 2217 1964 57.01 0.437 10.9 11 529
400 -15.6 15 2170 1881 55.79 0.471 12.5 12 496
425 -19.7 18 2123 1801 54.58 0.506 14.3 13 465
450 -24.3 21 2076 1723 53.39 0.542 16.1 14 435
475 -29.4 24 2031 1648 52.22 0.578 18.2 15 407
500 -35.0 27 1986 1576 51.06 0.616 20.4 16 380


Max Point blank range is 300 yds when zeroed at 255 yds.
Range
yds
Path
in
ComeUp
clicks
Velocity
fps
Energy
ft/lbs
Momentum
lb ft/s
ToF
sec
Windage
in
Windage
clicks
Optimal
Game Wgt
Muzzle -1.5 Infinity 3080 3791 79.20 0.000

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2009 at 13:58
trigger29 View Drop Down
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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At 500 yards there is a 2" difference. If you are shooting a load that shoots MOA, then at best you could shoot a 5" group. Take into account that one may drop 2" more, and that group starts to open up. It needs to get nice out so I can test all my promising loads out at 400+
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2009 at 13:59
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that was with the default settings, its for .308 diameter bullets i just tweaked the speeds.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2009 at 14:02
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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I'll try it with my loads. I have an ES of about 60fps. 140 gr. SST at 3200 B.C. .495

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2009 at 14:04
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Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 3200 -0.5 0 0 3183 0
50 3092 0.21 0.53 0.05 2972 0.57
100 2993 0 1.97 0.1 2785 0.98
150 2895 -1.18 4.39 0.15 2605 1.68
200 2800 -3.4 7.85 0.2 2437 2.67
250 2707 -6.74 12.42 0.26 2278 3.96
300 2616 -11.26 18.18 0.31 2127 5.58
350 2526 -17.06 25.22 0.37 1984 7.53
400 2439 -24.23 33.63 0.43 1849 9.84
450 2354 -32.87 43.5 0.5 1723 12.51
500 2271 -43.07 54.94 0.56 1603
15.57

  
                            


Edited by pyro6999 - February/27/2009 at 14:07
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2009 at 14:07
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Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 3260 -0.5 0 0 3304 0
50 3151 0.19 0.51 0.05 3087 0.57
100 3050 0 1.91 0.1 2892 0.97
150 2951 -1.13 4.24 0.15 2707 1.65
200 2854 -3.26 7.57 0.2 2532 2.61
250 2760 -6.46 11.97 0.25 2368 3.88
300 2668 -10.8 17.52 0.31 2213 5.46
350 2577 -16.37 24.29 0.37 2065 7.36
400 2489 -23.26 32.38 0.42 1926 9.61
450 2403 -31.55 41.88 0.49 1795 12.21
500 2318 -41.35 52.88 0.55 1670 15.2
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2009 at 14:10
trigger29 View Drop Down
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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I come up with about 2" different for that too, between 3200, and 3120. When it warms up a little, and I heal up, I'm going to take out my gong, and shoot from 400-6, or700 yds, and see how they fly.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2009 at 08:02
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weight sorting brass has absolutely nothing to do with accuracy. the attempt is to get the same internal case volume. all weight sorting brass will do is give you cases that all weigh the same. when i used to do this i would measure the case volume of each case and sort by internal volume of the case. when i realized this had nothing to do with ES, i stopped doing this as well. having cases with the same internal volume will give you no better ES than ones that are different by 2-4 grs.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2009 at 18:00
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The biggest factor in accuracy is getting the bullets seated concentrically with the case body. This depends on several factors, but is almost impossible with case necks that vary in thickness by much more than .001 inch. If you are serious you need some sort of concentricity tool like the RCBS Casemaster, which measures both neck thickness and bullet concentricity, or a Sinclair concentricty tool and a very accuraste caliper for measuring neck thickness.
 
Most cases are close enough in weight that it doesn't make all that much difference. Same with primer pockets. In fact too many handloaders obsess over those sorts of things when the really import part of the case is the neck, because it is what steers the bullet.
 
Then it's mostly finding a combination of bullet, powder and primer that results in BOTH small groups and consistent muzzle velocities.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2009 at 20:42
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What JB said is on point.  Get tooled up to measure case neck runout after sizing, then get tooled up to size cases straight.  Next is to get the bullets seated with as little runout as possible.  These two pieces go hand in hand, and together with finding exactly how far off the lands your rifle likes a given bullet to be and consistently seating the ogive at that depth can or will shrink your groups nicely.  There was a series of articles in Precision Shooting about 15 years ago by Creighton Audette that really explained why runout in the case neck and/or bullet is very detrimental to accuracy.  I will try to find.  I have found the Redding bushing dies and competition bullet seater die to make the straightest loads for me.  They are expensive dies, but they work!  I like the competition neck sizer, body die and competition seater set Redding packages.  Sinclair has all the measuring equipment you need, but look out!! It will make you question your whole reloading process,which can get expensive... Regards, Texas
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