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Point of Diminishing Returns

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2008 at 14:33
mwyates View Drop Down
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Looking at the discussion of the new 56mm Z6 got me thinking.  At what price point does the price you pay get to be too much for the improvements you get?  Let's use 3-9X40 (or equivalent) as the standard.
 
For me, it's about $400.  You can get a great scope for that.  To see much difference, you've got to jump up to $1000, and they aren't worth 2.5 times as much.  No need to even mention the $1700 Z6. 
 
What's your price point?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2008 at 14:43
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For me it depends on what I am using the scope for.  If it is for Hunting around $400 to $500 would be my max as well.  If it is for a precision rifle then the price limit goes way up to possibly $2000 if a particular scope had what I needed.  For a defensive rifle scope it could be way up as well just depending on what my particular needs were.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2008 at 15:20
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the frequency of use plays a large part, if one is using the scope 3-4 times a week for 2-3 hours at a time, is different than an occasional hunt as super points out. the more specialized the use the less likely that there will be alot of models available. thus a higher cost.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2008 at 16:55
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For me, it also depends on whether or not I plan to use the scope quite a bit for hunting at night or in really low light.  In Texas, for animals the state considers exotic or non-game species such as predators and feral hogs, it's perfectly legal to hunt all night long if you so choose.  In that instance, I want all the low light visibility I can get.  I'm certainly not willing to spend $1000+ on a scope for all of my scopes for all of my rifles.  Some of the $1000+ class scopes I have I didn't pay that much for because I got them at Sample List prices.  However, I do have a couple scopes I spent top $ for because I either planned to use them often and wanted a high quality optic for every condition and/or I planned to use it largely for night hunting during the off-season.

Edited by RifleDude - March/19/2008 at 16:58
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2008 at 18:05
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Good points by all, and I agree with all of them. For me, I limit my self to about $750.00 max, but all of my scopes are used for hunting. Granted if my income increase by tri-fold, my limits also would change.  I also believe that there are a many of great scopes to be had for under $500.00, which also make up the majority of all the scopes I use.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2008 at 18:17
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I like scopes in the 400-$1000 price range. Like was already said it, depends on what gun they go on. When it comes to big game rifles I use in poor conditions like low light and in and around cover, I do like the higher end stuff.
I absolutely want to see with my scope what I see through my binoculars. If not, it could deflect the shot or worse, yet, wound an animal.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2008 at 18:20
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I think we should look at how long one keeps a scope, if it is a short time then it can be quite costly or I have a swaro that I have had over 40 years. If you get that kind of use out of a good scope its well worth the extra expense for a good one. It all goes back to intended use and what one can afford at the time. Don't buy something you will not be satisfied with or you will wind up replacing it at more expense.
 
Duce Big%20Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2008 at 18:29
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I do not want anyone to have a heart attack, but I am with mwyates on this one.

For a typical midrange scope (something along the lines 3-9x40 or 2.5-10x40 or similar), you get into a real case of diminishing returns once you get past a $400-$500 range. 

i.e. I think the sweetspot is right around where these scopes are: Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40, Bushnel Elite 4200 2.5-10x40,  Sightron S2 Big Sky 3-12x42, Nikon Monarch 2.5-10x42 Burris Signature Select 3-10x40 and Vortex Viper 4-12x40.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2008 at 18:51
tahqua View Drop Down
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:


For a typical midrange scope (something along the lines 3-9x40 or 2.5-10x40 or similar), you get into a real case of diminishing returns once you get past a $400-$500 range. 

i.e. I think the sweetspot is right around where these scopes are: Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40, Bushnel Elite 4200 2.5-10x40,  Sightron S2 Big Sky 3-12x42, Nikon Monarch 2.5-10x42 Burris Signature Select 3-10x40 and Vortex Viper 4-12x40.

ILya
 
I certainly wish I could say that. Part of the problem with some of these scopes are in the reticles, themselves. Of the scopes mentioned, the Conquest has a nice selection and should be really good in the conditions I hunt.
The Monarchs and 4200 I picked up this last year do not compete with my 2.2-9x42 Kahles C with 7A. The glass is "bright" enough in these scopes but just doesn't have the resolution and contrast that allows for the really tough shots in the deep woods under low light. The reticles are not thick enough in the lowest light to put on a darkened animal, either.
In the end I know I could get by with these other scopes with the right reticles. Time in the woods is precious enough and I sure hate to pass on or blow shots, and I've done both.
I certainly can't justify the cost of the Z6, BTW.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2008 at 19:05
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For my go-to hunting rifle, I think the scope is actually more important than the gun itself. I want to see as well through the scope as I do through my binoculars. I will buy the best scope I can afford. For many years that was in the $300-$400 range. I have now reached a point in my life where I can afford much more than that, so I'm looking at Zeiss Victory's and Swarovski Z6's right now. Will I shoot more game, or kill it deader with the "better scope"? Probably not, but, I never really needed more than one or two good rifles either.Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2008 at 19:11
koshkin View Drop Down
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You certainly do get more if you spend more (I am the guy with a couple of Kahles CLs, IORs, etc.).  However, even $400-$500 scopes are sprouting better reticles now: #4 in the Conquest, Firefly and #4 in the Bushnell, for example.  If you can afford to spend more, you should, but if you can't or choose not to, you can get a lot for your money with a $400 scope.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2008 at 19:17
tahqua View Drop Down
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The reticle choices are increasing all the time and that spells good news. The jury is still out on illuminated with me, but I like what I am seeing so far. Mine is adjustable Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2008 at 22:32
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I spent $649.95 on my CL and last year I would have thought I was going nuts to even think about it!  I think the most I spent before that was $310.99....which is less than Half the price of the CL.  I want to get at least one Conquest 3-9X40 and maybe more, I don't see myself buying anything that cost more.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2008 at 04:09
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This is very much the same question as "How long is a piece of string?" It all depends on your personal economic situation and "scrooge factor". I think if we all had Bill Gates's money, we would be sprouting Schmidt and Bender scopes on all our rifles, regardless of the intended use.
So subconsciously we all balance what we get, with how much money we have. If the intended use justifies us spending more, we scrimp and scrounge and buy it. As Dale says, a target scope requires precision and we are in a competive enviroment. Second best in this arena will just not cut it. So buy the best, or stay out of the kitchen. The hunting enviroment is more forgiving, so we can do the balancing act.
Then you get the scrooges, they have all the money in the world, but will buy the cheapest, or never replace that scope that they bought when pa fell of the bus.(Maybe that is why they have all the money!)
Ok all that philosophy free of charge:
I try to establish what the best scopes are and rank them then in price order, and depending on my financial situation, buy the most expensive I can afford. Even if the lesser priced ones are maybe allmost as good, as long as I can afford the one better, I will buy that one. I normally only cry once.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2008 at 05:49
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Originally posted by mwyates mwyates wrote:

Looking at the discussion of the new 56mm Z6 got me thinking.  At what price point does the price you pay get to be too much for the improvements you get?  Let's use 3-9X40 (or equivalent) as the standard.
 
For me, it's about $400.  You can get a great scope for that.  To see much difference, you've got to jump up to $1000, and they aren't worth 2.5 times as much.  No need to even mention the $1700 Z6. 
 
What's your price point?
When you start buying LEUPOLDS !!!!Roll%20on%20Floor%20Laughing       No, I'm just teasing!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2008 at 08:31
mwyates View Drop Down
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For me, optics in a scope are less important than durability and repeatability.  I want my scope to be an aiming device more than a viewing device.  As I've said before, I've never had a situation using a VX III or a Conquest where I missed or didn't take a shot because the scope couldn't handle it.  Legal hunting here is 30 min before and after sunrise. 

I hunt hogs at night, too, but I use a light and even a cheap scope works fine if you've got a light, just like a 56mm Swaro can't help you see if it's dark.
 
I'll buy my $400 scope, then take the $1300 left over and get a new rifle and scope, or spend it on a hunting trip, or take my kids on vacation, or better yet, give it to my wife! and then let her read this post!Quickie
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