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p.o.i. moving to the right

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2006 at 18:10
mike300wthby View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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the last 3 times I've gone out and shot my 300 weatherby vanguard I've noticed that my first 4 or 5 shots are good but after that they start fading to the right.  I've been shooting from 200 yards and by my 8th or 9th shot I am 4 to 5 inches to the right.  The first time it happened I adjusted my scope so that I hit my last shot where I aimed.  The next time I went out my first 2 shots hit to the left so I adjusted my scope and shots 3,4 and 5 were right on(I noticed my scope was back where I had it originally), then they started fading right again.  this time I just left my scope where it had originally been and quit.  Went back out today and again it shot the first 5 shots well and then went about 1 inch farther right with each of my next 4 shots( so last shot was about 4 inches to right)  I have a Burris fulfield II 4-14 scope mounted with factory Weatherby rings.  Does this sound like a scope problem or should I be looking at other things?  any advice would be appreciated, this is getting frustrating.

 

PS just so you know, I went out one day and sighted in 3 rifles for a friend of mine.  Probably shot a total of 30 shots and didn't fade to the right then, so I don't think it is a problem I have with pulling to side after several shots but who knows

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2006 at 18:43
Dolphin View Drop Down
Optics Master
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Having sighted in rifles of different brands, this is not an uncommon problem with high velocity calibers.  First, I have to ask wether you let the barrel cool so that it was only warm to the touch before you made any further shots before drifting to the right. If not, this is your problem.  I have a habit of rushing through sighting rifles and not letting the barrels cool adequately.  I try to solve this problem, by sighting in multiple rifles and allowing each to cool, while moving on to another.  I own quite a few Wbys and especially if you are shooting small grain bullets at high velocities, the rifle will be more suceptible to spray, as it gets hot.  Let the barrel cool adequately or try a different size bullet.  Believe it or not the 180 Nosler BT has almost identical ballistics to the 165 Nosler BT, except for a slight advantage, with respect to energy at long distances.  I hope this helps.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2006 at 18:49
mike300wthby View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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So, is 8-10 shots enough to get a barrel hot enough to change trajectory?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2006 at 18:55
Dolphin View Drop Down
Optics Master
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No question about it.  3 or 4 shots will get that 300Wby hot enough to start spraying rounds.  Just feel the barrel from the receiver to the tip and if it is too hot to the touch, it is too hot to be shooting again for an accurate shot. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2006 at 18:58
Dolphin View Drop Down
Optics Master
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By the way, do not get discouraged with the rifle you have.  I am a Wby fanatic and I love the Vanguard series as well as the Howa rifles, who make the Vanguards.  With the high velocity 300Wby Mag., you have to take your time sighting in the rifle and do not rush it by taking shots with a hot barrel.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2006 at 20:22
silver View Drop Down
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Cryotreatment may help the problem a bit.  The dark secret is that a lot of barrels have been straightened.    You have a heat differential going on in differant places in the barrel that makes the problem worse.  This releases the various stresses in the barrel and in an un even manor.

 

The real fix is from Keiger  You may want to look at the bedding too.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2006 at 07:07
Dolphin View Drop Down
Optics Master
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Is this a new Vanguard?  If it is, there should be no need on your part to do any special treatment to that rifle whatsoever.  The people at Wby. stand by their product and is one reason I purchase them.  I have talked to many people at their operation and have never gotten anything, but a satisfactory response.  I even bought a used Accumark, I thought without an accubrake wrench (turns out I found it) and I called them and they sent me one for free.  No S/H fees.  If you feel that after doing what I have suggested above, that your rifle is not shooting properly, I would either take it back to your dealer or contact Wby. directly.  That rifle is perfectly good right out of the box and for hunting, not competition shooting, you should not have to spend an extra penny on it to improve its accuracy.  Everbody can make a dud, but a doubt by your description, that is what you have.  All rifles, with hot barrels, will start spraying bullets.  It reminds me of this lady I met at the range a few weeks ago.  She was just getting into hunting and bought a used Rem 700 that had been glass bedded and a custom trigger installed in a 270 win.  By previous targets shot by some of the guys at the range, it shot well.  After about 2 hours of me sighting in various rifles, she brought me her target and asked what was wrong.  I had heard her shooting, which was virtually, non-stop and while her intial targets, while not stellar were acceptable.  Then, the entire, target, which was probably 2 feet by 1 and half feet was full of holes everywhere.  She was shooting at 100 yards.  I asked if she ever checked to see if the barrel was hot and she looked at me like I was crazy and said no.  I explained this to her and hopefully, she will not make that mistake again.  Despite the fact, she probably shot 40 dollars worth of ammo into paper, in all directions.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2006 at 07:43
silver View Drop Down
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www.shilen.com

 

www.riflebarrels.com

 

www.cutrifle.com

 

These people know what they are doing.  I have a link for Keiger some place too.  They make match barrels.  In a match you don't get a lot of cooling time.  That is why match barrel are not ones that have been straigthened.  Even with a service rifle your groups do not shift around like that.

 

Dolphin is correct in that you should try Weatherby Customer service first.  You need to include that the problem is when the barrel is warm.  Anything that eats all the powder that a Weatherby case holds will get warm quickly. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2006 at 11:54
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Doesn't Kreiger make the barrels for Weatherbys?

How makes the barrels for the Vanguard?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/22/2006 at 14:44
Dolphin View Drop Down
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Kreiger does make many barrels for the Wby Mark Vs, but Howa made rifle barrels are made in Japan and are of good quality.  At least, all the ones I own.  Silver is right, with the amount of powder burned, the barrels heat up rapidly and it has always taken me more time to sight in a Wby caliber, when using the stardard, look through the barrel bore sight method, than non Wby calibers, even when sighting in my Wby Accumark 30-378.  Although, I blame some of that on the CPC loads I purchased.  My Howas is a 270win. and 300winmag were a breeze to sight in, the latter with a Simmons Aetec (old model) 3x9 40mm, taking only 5 shots to get an approximate 1 inch group, about 2 inches high, at 100 yards, with minimal barrel warm up.  Although, I only needed 1 shot at 25 yards and 4 at 100 yards.  Now, try sighting in a Mark V Wby 300 mag. with a pencil barrel, it takes a while and is made much simpler with the Aimpoint laser system, which works to 100 yards and saves many rounds.  I also have found, alot of guys at the range, like to fiddle to much and the more they fiddle, the more they shoot, the hotter the barrel, the more spray they get and the more they fiddle and so on.  Once you get them on track, they do much better.  I hope this helps.
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