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Phillipine Fullfield II's

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2009 at 09:19
John Barsness View Drop Down
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I had heard rumors that Burris Fullfield II's weren't quite so good anymore after Burris started making them in the Phillipines. I already had one of those scopes, made not long after the switchover from the U.S. plant, a 2-7x that I'd had on a .300 Weatherby for a while--where it held up perfectly. (This is my experience and that of many others with FFII's. They are darn tough scopes.)
 
But I also had a couple of the U.S.-made 3-9's and wanted to compare the new FFII 3-9's directly with those older scopes. Burris was kind enough to send along a 1" model for review, along with a 30mm Tactical model.
 
Since then I've run all my standard tests on both scopes, including looking at an optical chart at night. My conclusion is that the Phillipines scopes are a little better than the U.S. scopes. Of course, the older scopes have been hunted with for a while, and that can slightly degrade the lens coatings, even if they're very carefully cleaned. But the new scopes beat them--not by much, but noticeably.
 
The adjustments in the new scopes are also just as repeatable as in the older scopes, but they "feel" a little better, something that went along with a relatively minor but interesting point. The overall finish of the new scopes is a little better, including the threads on the turret caps. This may seem like a little thing, but the cap threads on the older scopes were noticeably rough, enough that it was sometimes hard to get the caps back on without starting them cross-threaded. The new ones screw on easily and smoothly--even on the older scopes.
 
Right now I've got both scopes on prairie dog rifles, and will wring them out pretty well over the next couple of months. After that there'll be some long-range shooting on bigger rifles. But so far everything looks really good.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2009 at 09:23
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i have been told that the ffII's that come with the extra items ( i.e binos, spotter,gps) are made in another a plant somewhere else and arent as good of quality as the scopes your refering too. have you heard this??
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

i have been told that the ffII's that come with the extra items ( i.e binos, spotter,gps) are made in another a plant somewhere else and arent as good of quality as the scopes your refering too. have you heard this??
 
I've heard that too.  I believe the bonus pack was offered with the introduction of the Phillipines scopes.  That steared some away.  Of course now everything FFII is made in Phillipines and it doesn't matter.  In fact JB is stating they may be superior to US models.  My only gripe with Burris is their new exterior finish and markings.  No more badging.  Everthing is just painted on.  They used to have the coolest hammered brass "B" on the saddles.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2009 at 09:50
John Barsness View Drop Down
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No, I hadn't heard that, but it sounds like a typical Internet rumor. Why would they set up yet another plant to make them? I'll check it out with Burris, though.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2009 at 09:55
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My FFII has been great also.  Thanks for clearing that up.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2009 at 09:58
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mine was fine optically, but had some minor nit picky stuff that just drove me nuts. the eye guard piece of rubber fell off all the time till i glued it on. the fast focus was very hard to turn and got worse when it was cold and then when it got cold the power ring would turn the fast focus too.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2009 at 10:01
John Barsness View Drop Down
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I have had other scopes where the rubber ring on the eyepiece fall off, including several Swarovkis. You'd think for $1000 or more they could find a glue that would work!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2009 at 10:04
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My swaro AV has done the same thing!  My FFII has not yet.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2009 at 10:08
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When we were at Gander Mountain last year they had a huge promotion sale of Bushnell 3200 Fire fly,Nikon Buckmaster BDC,Burris FFII BDC.They sold out on 3200 and had a few Nikon Buckmasters & plenty of Burris FFII in stock.Both Nikon & Burris were $189.00 included a pair of Binocs.We bought the last four Buckmasters.The Burris was not selling well from what the salesperson said,customers see that there not made in the U.S. and were buying the 3200 instead.The salesperson liked the older U.S. Burris better but the ones that were on sale were made in another factory to keep the cost down and are not the same quality. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2009 at 10:11
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This is very sad I've seen this also happen to a Docter Optic.I guess they use the same type glue.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2009 at 10:14
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JB, apparently glue is a yet to be solved mystery for ol Swaro...................grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2009 at 10:59
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One of the Optics websites that partner with Google have a statement on the site that they have discontinued carrying the Burris line because of a large number of returns, quality control issues, and poor customer service.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2009 at 11:31
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Seems like that 2-7, or the 3-9 with a $50 rebate, might be a heck of a good deal.
Nikons and Vortexes (Vortices?) are made in the Phillipines also, right?  Wonder why Burris is the one that gets badmouthed for being made there.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2009 at 12:25
John Barsness View Drop Down
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So somebody would rather buy a Japanese Bushnell 3200 than a "un-American" Burris FFII. Hmm....
 
My local sporting goods store had carried FFII's for years, and says they not only sell a lot but almost never have customer complaints. So we are getting conflicting reports here. I have a number of them, and have never had a problem--aside from getting the turret caps back on the American-made models, that is.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2009 at 13:20
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I had a FFII that came with a set of binos and I got rid of it.  It showed distortion at the edges.  I might have gotten a lemon or maybe the rings didn't fit right, but it didn't work for me and I replaced with a Vortex Diamondback.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2009 at 13:25
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Your saying that the FFII is better than the 3200.
Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

So somebody would rather buy a Japanese Bushnell 3200 than a "un-American" Burris FFII. Hmm....
 
My local sporting goods store had carried FFII's for years, and says they not only sell a lot but almost never have customer complaints. So we are getting conflicting reports here. I have a number of them, and have never had a problem--aside from getting the turret caps back on the American-made models, that is.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2009 at 14:30
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Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

No, I hadn't heard that, but it sounds like a typical Internet rumor. Why would they set up yet another plant to make them? I'll check it out with Burris, though.
 
John
The "other plant" was the Phillipines plant as opposed to the plant in Greeley Co.  The talk I heard was that the Phillipines scopes were not as good as the American made FFII's they replaced.  It sounds like that isn't what your testing has shown.  There was no specific testing that I remember to back up the claim at that time.  I even remember someone posted an email from the big dog at Burris stating they had no choice but to outsource to stay competitive at that time.  I probably read it here a few years ago.  I'll have to do some searching.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2009 at 14:54
John Barsness View Drop Down
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Actually, they didn't "outsource" it, in the sense of simply having it made by another company over there.
 
They shipped the actual tooling they use in the U.S. over there, and then had Burris employees from the U.S. train the Phillipine employees. I suspect the lenses are from the same source as the scopes that were made here.
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Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

Actually, they didn't "outsource" it, in the sense of simply having it made by another company over there.
 
They shipped the actual tooling they use in the U.S. over there, and then had Burris employees from the U.S. train the Phillipine employees. I suspect the lenses are from the same source as the scopes that were made here.
 
That's generally how outsourcing works John.  Not necessarily moving the equipment, but sending over trainers is typical.  Semantics I suppose, but I consider that outsourcing.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2009 at 18:26
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Actually, optics outsourcing varies a lot more than that. Many companies have an optics firm in, say, Japan totally design and build a new scope or binocular within certain broad parameters. There is no training of the workers, or indeed much design by the original firm.
 
Others do the design work in-house and then contract with a factory to build the optics. This is how Minox and Bushnell work, among others.
 
Others have another factory alter an already existing product slightly, and then have their name put on it.
 
Some contract for most or all of the parts to be made in another factory, or several factories, and then assemble the parts in their own factory, sometimes refining the fit of certain parts. This is pretty much how Zeiss Conquests are made, and Nightforce scopes.
 
And then there are the actual factories or design firms that develop optics, then go looking for a well-known company to market it under their name.
 
It's actually pretty unusual for the same tooling to be shipped somewhere. And it's VERY unusual these days for everything from design to manufacturing to be under one roof.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2009 at 19:29
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And we wonder whats wrong with the U.S. economy?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2009 at 19:58
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I've seen Burris' "tooling" out in Greeley in 2004.  They gave me a quick tour which was not company policy I was told.  The machining of the tubes was what impressed me the most.  I hope Beretta allows them to make a come back.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2009 at 21:19
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My FFII that is about 6 years old is one of my favorite scopes.   I have several other brands but the Burris is a rockstar
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2009 at 22:00
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Originally posted by BobH BobH wrote:

My FFII that is about 6 years old is one of my favorite scopes.   I have several other brands but the Burris is a rockstar
 
Yours isn't a Phillipine model then.  The recent Nikon Monarch's made in the Phillipines aren't exactly known for being better built than the older Japanese or Thailand models. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2009 at 23:44
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Mine is an older FFII and it has taken one hell of a beating (rolled on by a horse even) and I have never had a problem with it at all.  That is what got be stuck on burris, was the quality of that scope.  My Black Diamond has been just as good.
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