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Phase coating not everything

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2006 at 07:49
Tero View Drop Down
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I have had a few roof prisms with no phase coating. Most of them were pretty poor.They were better than having no binoculars.

 

My first good ones were Nikon Sporter 10x36. I still can't find any major problem with them, other than dimness. The center part, hard to say how much, is quite sharp. They don't make me disgusted with the view.

 

I had some phase coated 10x28 Excursions for a few days. I could indeed focus and there was a narrow depth of field in focus. I end up readjusting the diopter a lot in some models, and that was true here. I sent them back, price was $140. FOV was good, 315.

 

My local sports store has some non phase coated Bushnell 10x28 Explorer. Style is slightly different than what the googled picture looks like. No 8x version sold. They have a FOV of 260, and they are a bit dim. But the focusing does not drive me nuts. The clarity is not quite as good as my old Sporter, but close. Cost 45 bucks. Eye cups screw out but look a little cheaply made. I may get these for a "glove compartment" pair for the car. I keep a pair under the drivers seat.

 

The similar Vortex Spitfire 10x30 for over $100 I rejected also, very similar to the 10x28 Excursion.

 

Maybe the phase coating, even if advertised, isn't done right? Or maybe the wide field in the 10x28 excursions messes up the view?

 

I am in no hurry. I think I can get by with 9x25 proStaffs for now. I use a Monarch 10x42 for my routine birding bin in winter.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2006 at 08:47
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It's all about quality. Kia and Volvo are both cars.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2006 at 09:37
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Originally posted by anweis anweis wrote:

It's all about quality. Kia and Volvo are both cars.

 

Hey now, I drive a Sportage.

 

Tero,

 

I would agree. I purchased a set of the EO Denalis. They are phase coated but that help at all with the poor quality image that they displayed. I don't think I am going out on a limb when I say that there are some non-phasecoated roof prism glasses out there that are better optically than some phase coated models.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2006 at 09:53
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Originally posted by FrankD FrankD wrote:

[QUOTE=anweis]

I am going out on a limb when I say that there are some non-phasecoated roof prism glasses out there that are better optically than some phase coated models.

 

You are not.

Here are possible combinations:

bad glass x bad coatings

good glass x good coatings

bad glass x good coatings

good glass x bad coatings

and there are many levels of good or bad, so, try before you buy and don't fall for lingo such as "XTR" "HD" "ED" C3" PXR" "ASPH" and all that.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2006 at 10:58
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Right as rain!

Phase correction is just ONE item in the overall recipe of optical performance.
It can't overcome poor quality in other areas.

A $500 paint job on a Yugo doesn't turn it into a Bimmer.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2006 at 12:21
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I have one pair of non phase coated 8x25 roof prisms, Minolta, that I like. All the others have been junk. I would have bought two or three after I heard Minolta is out of the binoculars business.Can't find the model, it was some 50 bucks or less.

 

I did like a Brunton Echo 10x32 and 8x32. They seemed quite good for non phase coated (which it is?), but the price in that store was too much. I can get 10x36 Monarchs for that.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2006 at 12:38
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One of the places you can search for Minolta (Konica Minolta) binoculars is amazon.com

You also could try doing a google search for same.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2006 at 13:13
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Yes I did that right after deciding they were good. Could not find them. They were at Scheels Sports.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2006 at 06:33
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Originally posted by Bird Watcher Bird Watcher wrote:

Right as rain!

Phase correction is just ONE item in the overall recipe of optical performance.
It can't overcome poor quality in other areas.

A $500 paint job on a Yugo doesn't turn it into a Bimmer.

 

I find it interesting then that some companies started charging so much more for their phase coated models with no actual other upgrades. If phase coating was so much more expensive to apply then how is it they can apply it to roof prism bins and still keep the cost under $200? I wonder what the cost of the bin would then be if there wasn't phasecoating applied.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2006 at 08:47
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Anybody else have a favorite roof prism in the non-phase coated category?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2006 at 09:09
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Originally posted by Tero Tero wrote:

Anybody else have a favorite roof prism in the non-phase coated category?

 

Leitz Trinovid 7x42 green rubber armored, fully multicoated but not phase coated.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/07/2006 at 10:11
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Frank,

As we all know, there are companies on the planet that will try to take advantage of consumers whenever the opportunity presents itself.

Isn't that why we spend hours on the Optics Talk Forum? Helping each other, & education ourselves to be able to make intelligent choices.

Remember? Let the buyer beware! Caveat Emptor!

Barska, for example, makes their top-of-the-line Huntmaster roof prism binocular with Phase Coating, FMC/Fully Multi-Coated optics, 100% waterproof, BAK-4, great eye relief, great exit pupil, excellent FOV & all for $120.oo.

Unfortunately, their quality & reputation is not going to draw very many buyers, UNTIL their products "prove" to be worth the investment.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2006 at 08:05
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Originally posted by Tero Tero wrote:

Anybody else have a favorite roof prism in the non-phase coated category?

 

I really liked those Sporter I/Buckmaster models Tero. We share that common interest. I have no experience with the early Leica/Leitz models but would love to see what a high end non-phase coated roof looked like.

 

Birdwatcher,

 

You are right ofcourse.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/08/2006 at 10:40
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The Sporter only has some buld and weight issues. I still have the 10X Sporter. When I go somewhere with my family, I give them some of my other ones, and I use the old Sporter.

 

I could not keep from testing the 10x28 Bushnell Explorer. Not phase coated, but I was able to see two eagles across a wide river. I saw more detail than with a pocket 8x25. Not the quality of the Sporter, but worth pretty much exactly the 40 bucks they cost. They sit at my desk at work. May put them in the car, as I have no other 10x in there.

 

The 8x28 Bushnell Excursion I don't need now. I have an 8x32 RedHead, one year warranty, which is supposed to phase coated. They probably are. Will have to do for my 8x32, they have almost no resale value, would get 20-30 bucks for them.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2007 at 04:30
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Originally posted by FrankD FrankD wrote:

Originally posted by anweis anweis wrote:

It's all about quality. Kia and Volvo are both cars.

 

Hey now, I drive a Sportage.

 

 

I think he was knocking the Volvo, . . .atleast I hope he was.  They generally do not show well in quality surveys.  On the other hand, the Korean makers like Kia are near the top. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2007 at 08:55
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when was the last time you saw a Kia with 400,000 miles on it and running strong...on biodiesel?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2007 at 08:58
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My Kia has 100,000 miles on it...

 

..does that count?

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2007 at 10:22
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Originally posted by FrankD FrankD wrote:

My Kia has 100,000 miles on it...

 

 

Please accept my condolence.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2007 at 10:23
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Originally posted by anweis anweis wrote:

Originally posted by FrankD FrankD wrote:

My Kia has 100,000 miles on it...

 

 

Please accept my condolence for the imminent passing of your vehicle.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2007 at 11:00
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Hey now. Well at least I will have a nice pair of binoculars to carry with me while I am walking for a towtruck.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2007 at 19:04
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From my understanding, phase coating helps with color fidelity. It won't do anything for focus, or collimation.. Those still have to rely on mechnical design of binoculars

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2007 at 09:24
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Originally posted by FrankD FrankD wrote:

 

Hey now. Well at least I will have a nice pair of binoculars to carry with me while I am walking for a towtruck.


Here is a puzzler, how many binoculars would it take to trade for a car you could drive for another 2 years?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2007 at 13:43
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An easier puzzle would be to figure out how many binoculars it would take to equal the trade-in value for my car. Probably less than one Swaro EL.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2007 at 14:29
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No one bothered to mention that you can buy 3 or 4 KIAs for the price of one Volvo. The Euro is far too high to make purchasing any Euro based car a good deal. There are actually Volvos that cost more than a 2500 Ram 4X4 Mega Cab with a Cummins. The Volvos won't outlast, outpull or go thru what the Ram will and get only 5 mpg more.And lets not even begin to talk about parts & labor costs!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2007 at 06:17
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...will and get only 5 mpg more.

So you are getting some 10mpg on the Ram?
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