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Perishable skills...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/26/2011 at 19:47
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I must say, I have not been shooting as much as I intended, hoped, wished, since my return from Iraq.  Most of my shooting has been 25-100 yards with a few excursions to 300 and 500.  Nothing "long range".  I can still put together a pretty good group at 500, still shoot dimes at 100.  I measured some long range targets the other day, very long range so I wanted exact measurements of target size.  Then, I took the Hensoldt ZF6-24x72 out on my custom 338 just to do some ranging.  Using two targets, I ranged a variation between 1880yards and 1670 yards on the same target over the course of several hours.  Not very good... certainly not likely to get any 1st round hits at the "somewhere near a mile" distance.  Using one of the best mildot reticles made, using a completely stable rest and all the time I needed, I could not get the same range twice out of several dozen attempts.  A variation of 210 yards is almost assuredly a miss.  
All I can say is, I used to shoot a lot more, used to estimate the distances a lot more... used to be a lot better.  I've always known it, but now confirm it... you must work those skills regularly AND frequently.  Doesn't have to be every day, but certainly more than once ever few months.  

Not only was I very disappointed, I still have no idea of the range of those targets... good thing they aren't shooting at me...


Edited by Kickboxer - December/26/2011 at 19:48
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2011 at 12:28
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Well stated. Yes, a very perishable skill indeed.... 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2011 at 14:23
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True indeed. Science says what you don't use, you loose. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/27/2011 at 23:50
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Very true,Dan...I have also noticed that the older I get, the better I WAS... The sad part is I am approaching magnificent....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2011 at 06:16
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Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

Very true,Dan...I have also noticed that the older I get, the better I WAS... The sad part is I am approaching magnificent....


That's funny right there! LOL.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2011 at 08:33
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LRF's are your friendWink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2011 at 08:36
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At that range, LRF's are really spendy... At that range, artillery is your friend...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2011 at 09:43
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I HAVE artillery...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2011 at 09:53
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Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

At that range, LRF's are really spendy... At that range, Kickboxer  artillery is your friend...
Fixed it
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2011 at 10:30
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Really Sad I used to have artillery.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2011 at 12:14
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Resolution, atmospherics, gradations in the reticle and the distance to the target all mess with getting a good reading. Just consider what distance does by itself: At 500 yards, ranging on a one-yard target, you have 2 full mils worth of subtensions to work with, giving you a larger scale to use. At ~1000 yards you have to decide exactly how much of 1 mils worth is being subtended.

No doubt the Hensoldt overcomes some of those issues, but still being able to measure correctly is not easy. The errors are compounded by the extreme drops out at long range. In other words, the farther out you go the more you will err and the more error matters.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2011 at 14:03
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200 yards and i'm a happy man Big Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2011 at 18:25
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Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

Resolution, atmospherics, gradations in the reticle and the distance to the target all mess with getting a good reading. Just consider what distance does by itself: At 500 yards, ranging on a one-yard target, you have 2 full mils worth of subtensions to work with, giving you a larger scale to use. At ~1000 yards you have to decide exactly how much of 1 mils worth is being subtended.

No doubt the Hensoldt overcomes some of those issues, but still being able to measure correctly is not easy. The errors are compounded by the extreme drops out at long range. In other words, the farther out you go the more you will err and the more error matters.


Uh... that would be it...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2011 at 18:28
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And just think, once you get the ranging down, dial your elevation, and now what is the wind doing, and where is it doing it?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/28/2011 at 18:33
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I work with wind induced error all the time, so that is not as BIG an issue for me.  I was just shocked to see how much my "read" on the reticle had deteriorated.  Back to the drawing board... only solution...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2011 at 09:08
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A few months ago I went to the range, set up on a 500yd plate, broke my shot (cold bore) and hit the plate. The following rounds hit with boring regularity, so after about 20 rounds I packed the Savage up and went on to something else.
Two weeks ago I attempter to duplicate that performance. This time the sun was a BIG factor, and I was barely able to see the plate due to glare. Thirty rounds produced about six known hits, it was very frustrating; and the wind was calmer this time than last.
I think I have more trouble with the sun than the wind.Whacko
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2011 at 13:11
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The sun came out today... first time in a while.  I spent a couple of minutes looking at my ranging problem.  Probably found the answer.  

I was ranging at around a mile at 12x on a 12in (exactly measured) target that is CURVED on both upper and lower edges.  At 12x, even with the Hubble, it is difficult to get an exact read on the the edges.  Enough to make the minute differences Jon was talking about to create the variations.  HOWEVER, I took a quick look at 24x today and can make the edges out quite nicely.  Didn't do any ranging, was just checking myself...

Gives one a lot of pondering to do on, a lot of appreciation for, the skills of those who used fixed 4x, 6x, 8x, 10x scopes to make 1000+ yard shots with lesser glass quality than what we have today and with 7.62 caliber rifles.  Yes, a mile is quite a bit further, but it's all in perspective...

1000 yards with open sights... those were the days...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2011 at 13:23
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i dont know that i could hit a barn at 1000 with irons.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2011 at 13:24
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spray and pray at a 1000 huh pyro?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2011 at 13:27
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ive never had a need to shoot at something that far away. i cant shoot that far around here. i never shot past 500yds when i lived in wyoming. all of that was at steel gongs, with a scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2011 at 22:02
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Hey Dan, The Henny is SFP, correct? At what power is the reticle "correct" at? If it is at 24, And you are halving your mil reading for the 12x, remember, the mag ring might not always be marked correctly...Not to mention the reticle sub-tensions would be doubled as well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2011 at 22:17
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Reticle is "set" at 12x.  I've already done the math for 6x, 9x, 10x, 18x, 24x.  I've already tested its accurcay at those magnifications. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2011 at 22:22
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Cool...Just checkin.
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