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Peculiar problem with a new 300WM

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2009 at 19:04
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I just bought a very nice 300WM and have noticed a peculiarity.  When I fire factory ammo, the brass extracts and ejects without difficulty.  When I shoot handloads through this gun (no signs of pressure on the cases, not shooting them hot, handloads are well within spec for case length and pressure), the rounds hit the target where aimed but the brass sticks in the chamber and requires some force on the bolt handle to eject the spent cases.

What gives?

I will take a caliper and micrometer to the factory and the hand load, but does this sound familiar?

I have handloaded for 5 separate 300WMs and all have ben very accurate and only this one doesn't like them.  All others extract and eject without difficulty, and this one extracts and ejects factory ammo just fine but doesn't like hand loads.  I've used brass cases and the silver-finish cases, both have difficulty.  All signs of the case are normal, no stress marks, no rub marks, no problems with the primer or primer pocket.

Is it the chamber?  Is it the tumbler media? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2009 at 19:10
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I had the same experience not a wsm but standard wm and found that the bullet powder combo did not jive with the book and as a result too much pressure, but like you no signs.Tuned it down and it was good. the bullets were remington and they were loaded like Noslers?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2009 at 19:45
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it's not the chamber. if it was, the factories would have difficulty also. you have too much pressure with the handloads. you didn't say if you were getting extractor marks? a stiff bolt lift is the only true sign of pressure. most other causes are indicators but can be something else. a stiff bolt pretty much means brass is flowing and that means too much pressure.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2009 at 20:12
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Drop the powder two grains and see what happens. Dykem blue the case to see if you have a high spot or are a bit out of round if this is a new gun.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2009 at 20:39
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Bolt lift isn't the problem, lift is normal, no difficulties.  The problem arises when I try to pull the bolt back, it requires more force than it should.


I chronoed the rounds last week, they aren't hot, 180-gr SMK at 2800 FPS.


There are no bulges or marks on the cases.

I'll try to Dykem them and see if anything looks fishy.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2009 at 20:58
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the bolt lifts with no extra pressure but it's hard to pull straight back. is it tight when you get to the camming part just before the end of the up stroke, or when it's at the upper most part of travel when you try to pull straight back?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/01/2009 at 22:47
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Sounds to me like a chamber issue.  I have one rifle that does this.  It is a tight chamber 280AI and my Redding Body Die does not size the case body at the pressure ring because the chamber is small.  It happens after the brass has been fired 3 or 4 times and the brass has lost it's springback, it gets sticky.  New brass or just neck sized brass for the first few loadings do not do this.
 
2800 fps in a 300 win mag is very slow and is below the velocity of the minimum loads with most powders.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2009 at 17:31
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Thanx for the help.

I talked to the builder, he said his chambers are match dimensions and said I have to use small base dies or they will stick.  This explains why factory fresh does fine but reloads stick: my dies do not return the brass to factory spec, just "close."


I'll let you know how it goes when I send some new reloads down range.

Again, thank you for the help.

I have ordered the dies and will let you know how it goes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2009 at 19:19
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Welcome to my world.  I took my new 300 Win Mag from GAPrecision to the range fired one shot naturally a reload cheap bastard that I am. Game over the empty case would not come out of the barrel.  George told me  use virgin brass only or factory ammo. The 300 Win Mag being a  belted magnum the sizing die resizes the case but not the belt.  Fortunately my son has a 300 WM ruger that feeds everything and now he gets all the once fired brass. That did take a lot of the joy out of owning my only custom made rifle.  I should have bought a .308 I should have bought a .308 I should have bought a .308. Why would I want to get to a thousand yards. Head Banger
 
If you find some dies that work for you be sure and tell me.


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - March/02/2009 at 19:20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2009 at 19:24
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Ufriend, this info would have been extremely valuable  1 MONTH AGO!


have you tried small base dies?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2009 at 19:28
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No sorry  I missed this thread.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2009 at 19:37
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I had this same problem with my 7mm.  It was not sizing down to the belt with either a hornady die or a rcbs die.  I bought a Forester die and it seems to size right to the edge of the belt and it actually quite tight around the belt.  IT works just fine now with that die.  Resizing is hard because it really has to squish those suckers, but they extract great now.

I have also run into this problem with my Lilja barreled .308 and the tight chamber on it.  I am on my 3rd resizing die now and it seems to be working better.  I went with a full length horandy bushing die.  I am just keeping my fingers crossed on this one.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2009 at 19:56
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OH great I just bought my first 300 win mag. Before I break the seal what kind of luck do you have with the Lee dies?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2009 at 20:06
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Well they don't make a small base die for a 280AI.  Wonder if the Innovative die would work  http://www.larrywillis.com/

Think it will only work on belted magnums not on a 280AI, might help you out though RC.
 
Guess I'll have to send a fired case in to Redding and have them make me a smaller body die.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2009 at 07:23
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Originally posted by 3_tens 3_tens wrote:

OH great I just bought my first 300 win mag. Before I break the seal what kind of luck do you have with the Lee dies?



I own several 300WM and it is only the custom gun that has the issue.  Don't worry, unless your new 300WM has a match chamber (few do), you will be fine with probably any dies.

We here at the OT like to sometimes make things harder than they need to be, and this thread pays tribute to that inclination.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2009 at 07:51
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An option is to have a die reamed to your chamber spec. Wilson makes blank dies, then the same reamer that was used to cut your chamber is also used to cut the die.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2009 at 08:49
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Originally posted by sakomato sakomato wrote:

Well they don't make a small base die for a 280AI.  Wonder if the Innovative die would work  http://www.larrywillis.com/

Think it will only work on belted magnums not on a 280AI, might help you out though RC.
 
Guess I'll have to send a fired case in to Redding and have them make me a smaller body die.

rcbs will build you any die you want to your specs if you ask them to.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2009 at 13:22
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Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

An option is to have a die reamed to your chamber spec. Wilson makes blank dies, then the same reamer that was used to cut your chamber is also used to cut the die.



If my small base die fails, that will be the way I go.


Thanx, I didn't know I could do that.



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2009 at 20:03
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Jeff, are you having the same trouble extracting an unfired round?  If you truly need small base dies, then you will have the same problem with sticky extraction with the unfired round as well as the fired case. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2009 at 20:11
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RC, are the handloads from a different gun/chamber ???
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2009 at 20:18
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Ted, I never tried to extract an unfired, but it is a good question, I will try it.  But I will try it at the range since I might need to fire it to clear the gun safely.  In theory, you are correct: an unfires should stick too.


Roy, the handloads were all fired first in another rifle, then resized.  As I have several 300WM, I can't "fire form" all brass and hope to keep them all straight.  This is a lesson I leanred the hard way with .308s - accidentally tried to load a fire-formed round into another gun, didn't work so well - imagine that.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2009 at 21:41
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Fish

Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - March/08/2009 at 19:27
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2009 at 18:38
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If sized cases(less bullet) enter/extract the chamber less issue,you've eliminated sizer die issue.

Undoubtedly it's user error................

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2009 at 22:10
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Originally posted by Big Stick Big Stick wrote:

If sized cases(less bullet) enter/extract the chamber less issue,you've eliminated sizer die issue.

Undoubtedly it's user error................

 
Hey BS, knowing RC, I would say ..........not!
 
We had already established that it is more likely that he has a minimally sized custom chamber, something I am familiar with and some dies do not have interior dimensions small enough to size brass properly for.  A sizing die issue.
 
Your post was notably short and short on information.  Undoubtedly it's user (of the Submit Post button) error.


Edited by sakomato - March/09/2009 at 08:09
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2009 at 18:16
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'mato,
 
That's a quaint stab at what's going on,though well of the mark.
 
If sized cases go in less resistance and exit with resistance after firing,at the 3/4 throttle threshold cited...you can wipe die woes from the list of suspects.
 
Which brings me full circle back to the obvious case of Operator Error......................
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