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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2009 at 19:00
tsavo303 View Drop Down
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hey guys looking to mount a QD optic on my ar (RRA m-4 type- fixed front sight flip rear)
i have an aimpoint in a qd mount, but adds much weight for not any adavntage in intermedate range shooting.
thinking about a leupold v-III 1.5-5 *20 illum in qd mounts, but wonder if there are any better options as far as weight and price are concerned
Tried a acog 4*30 but i bought one with the crazy reticle and found it too slow for close stuff
saw that millet 1-4*24, but i am wary of cheaper optics
I want it to be as fast as irons up close, not  too heavy and add a little precision at mid range for advice on optic and or mounts.
thanks in advance
T

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2009 at 20:21
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Trijicon is coming out with a new 1-4x that should be really nice.  It will be out in March
http://trijicon.com/user/parts/parts_new.cfm?categoryID=5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2009 at 21:45
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Welcome to the OT ..
The new VX-3 is also out ,,gotta admit the the Trijicon looks sweet ..could also look at the 4200 Elite 1.25-4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2009 at 01:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2009 at 06:55
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thanks for the responses-tk
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2009 at 07:14
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Trijicon is coming out with a new 1-4x that should be really nice.  It will be out in March
http://trijicon.com/user/parts/parts_new.cfm?categoryID=5


Thunbs Up

Looks like a new reticle color for this year, green. Wonder how green looks matched up against the amber color reticle.



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/10/2009 at 08:00
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OK green lasers /green reticles - that just doesnt do it for me. yellow is the first color the eye sees and red a very close second. I know the Army SF has had some green ones but not sure why that choice,  possibly if you are looking through it for extended periods at potential targets is it less distracting, but it cant be faster on target.  I think the new 1-4 trijicon would be a great choice and I'd love to slap one on a M4 but as most of you guys know 
TA442 Trijicon 1.5x16 Compact Acog Rifle Scope                                                                                Trijicon 1.5x16 Compact Acog Rifle Scope
  • Amber Triangle BAC
  • Free Lens Cleaning Pen w/ Purchase
SWFA: $924.95
More Info... Buy Now
  I like this one real well but the amber does wash out some when pointed toward a street light.

Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - February/14/2009 at 01:17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2009 at 15:35
Mithran View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

OK green lasers /green reticles - that just doesnt do it for me. yellow is the first color the eye sees and red a very close second. I know the Army SF has had some green ones but not sure why that choice,  possibly if you are looking through it for extended periods at potential targets is it less distracting, but it cant be faster on target.  I think the new 1-4 trijicon would be a great choice and I'd love to slap one on a M4 but as most of you guys know 
 
Ok, I'm gonna piss some people off here but oh well.  Armchair commandos on this forum need to shut the hell up and stay in their damn lane.  Red is not seen by the eye before green, for that matter I don't think yellow is either.  Why do you think night vision is green.  It's sharper and much less straining on the eye than other colors.  I've used green lasers before and they are much brighter than red ones.  They can be seen during the day much easier at extended ranges, and won't washout during the day or in street lights like a yellow laser or dot (used amber ones too they suck).  Just to mention yellow as a viable aiming reference is f**king stupid, and shows someones true virginity with all things firearms and tactics associated.  It's not just SF who has the toys, many shooters over in Iraq and Afghanistan are using green lasers because they ARE better. 
 
One more thing to the originator of this topic.  You have things a little backwards sir.  Reflex and red dot sights were created so we could be faster on target than iron sights.  I hate red dots at extended ranges, cover to much of the target.  True, irons are fast up close but nowhere near as fast as a dot.  Irons really shine at long distance, they are much more precise in adjustment and focus.  The setup I mentioned above will give you the best of both worlds.  It's a setup I would run in a heart beat if I was still a shooter and it's what a lot of guys who shoot for a living use too.  Do yourself a favor too and mount that Aimpoint on a Larue mount.  I've seen too many Arms mounts fall off during hard use to recommend them at all.  Arms mounts may work for your weekend warriors but they are trully pure sh*t for hard use users.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2009 at 16:55
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I have been looking at the Leupold 1.5-5x20 Mk4 for competition and the same purpose you are. It's right at 900.00. I'm also thinking of having it camed for my load. You may want to look at the Mk4 as well if it fits in your budget. The Trijicon looks interesting and is listed at about the same price. One of these would be my choice for street use. I might even lean towards the Trijicon because of the tritium (it's always on).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2009 at 19:15
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HI,


I like the way the new TR-24 looks,but here is a dumb question.The tr-24 does not have a ranging reticle,how does one adjust for drop. Kev
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2009 at 19:58
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Mithran, my skill set has never included diplomacy; for that, they called some other guy who was a bad shot and liked to talk about his feelings.  In you, I see a somewhat kindred spirit.

I'm not certain anything here is about what the eye sees first, it is about energy.  Red is the lowest wavelength in the visible light spectrum (ROYGBIV) and therefore washes out quickly as higher-energy light overtakes it.

Red is good in night-vision scenarios because it does not harm natural night vision when turned off.    Green is used in night vision optics due to contrast, but it does have effects on  natural night vision when moving away from the optic.

Green lasers work well because they are a higher wavelength.  Your eye doesn't "see green first", but green is more visible in more scenarios than red because less energy is lost in the light's movement through the atmosphere.  Red is lower energy.

At night, as the sun sets, you see red because the atmosphere has filtered out higher-energy wavelengths as they strike particulates. Red is lower wavelength and weaves its way through the soup.

ILya will probably come in and correct it all, such is life.

Aimpoints are rapid on target up close for many reasons, not least is that the dot floats and there are no 2 reference points to align as there are with front site post and rear site aperature.  Like Mithran , I do not prefer red dots at long range; however, I have had success at making 300+ yard shots on gongs and iron maidens with a red dot, it ain't ideal, but it is doable.

A red dot (2MOA or greater) will never be a good long-range solution, but, in an emergency it will work.

The new trijicon is a good compromise, true 1X (or very near) for both-eyes-open for up close, 4X for distance.  The downside is eye relief, you gotta get behind the optics and in the right position.


If I were setting up a duty gun that WOULD be needed for CQB and MIGHT be needed at range (100 or so), I'd stick with the Aimpoint.  If it were a gun where 100+ yards was normal and it MIGHT see CQB, my recommendation would be very different.

It probably doesn't help, but it is something with which everyone can disagree.


Be safe, and don't miss.


Edited by Rancid Coolaid - February/12/2009 at 20:04
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/13/2009 at 00:58
Mithran View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Mithran, my skill set has never included diplomacy; for that, they called some other guy who was a bad shot and liked to talk about his feelings.  In you, I see a somewhat kindred spirit.

I'm not certain anything here is about what the eye sees first, it is about energy.  Red is the lowest wavelength in the visible light spectrum (ROYGBIV) and therefore washes out quickly as higher-energy light overtakes it.

Red is good in night-vision scenarios because it does not harm natural night vision when turned off.    Green is used in night vision optics due to contrast, but it does have effects on  natural night vision when moving away from the optic.

Green lasers work well because they are a higher wavelength.  Your eye doesn't "see green first", but green is more visible in more scenarios than red because less energy is lost in the light's movement through the atmosphere.  Red is lower energy.

Aimpoints are rapid on target up close for many reasons, not least is that the dot floats and there are no 2 reference points to align as there are with front site post and rear site aperature.  Like Mithran , I do not prefer red dots at long range; however, I have had success at making 300+ yard shots on gongs and iron maidens with a red dot, it ain't ideal, but it is doable.

A red dot (2MOA or greater) will never be a good long-range solution, but, in an emergency it will work.

If I were setting up a duty gun that WOULD be needed for CQB and MIGHT be needed at range (100 or so), I'd stick with the Aimpoint.  If it were a gun where 100+ yards was normal and it MIGHT see CQB, my recommendation would be very different.

It probably doesn't help, but it is something with which everyone can disagree.


Be safe, and don't miss.
 
No I'm not the most diplomatic.  You explained what I was trying to explain a better way.  Green in night vision goggles because of the contrast, red for light to save vision. 
 
Taking you eyes away from NVG's after having them on sucks ass, you can't see sh*t.Whacko
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/13/2009 at 08:50
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I know, and the only thing worse was the old-school NVGs we had,  where both eyes see through a monocle, no binocular vision, no depth of field.  Moving at night with those things on gave me a head ache in about 5 minutes.  You might see that obstacle in front of you, but since you can't tell how far away it is, you see it as you hit it.

Ahh, the olden days, you is wasted on the young.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/13/2009 at 10:18
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Mithran you will have to excuse me for being stupid but can you tell me the advantage of going to the green illuminated reticle that Trijicon has added?  I know the green reticle is in use by troops in the  sandbox but the why it would be preferable to the red or amber I dont get if its for BAC use.  I would think the contrasting color would be preferable.
As for green lasers yes they go further.  And infared laser makes sense to me.  I can see a use for lasers moving room to room, but the ones our LRS has are red, go on M16A2 at the front sight, and run on one AA battery, I want to say they are Beamshot 7000's but the model is no longer made, sorry we have old gear sometimes we feel lucky to have flintlocks. I just cant see using a visable laser at distance cause it will give away your position especially if there is dust or smoke in the air so  even thought green goes further I dont think I would use it further that room to room clearing a building.  Sorry I dont get the green thing yet --- could be I'm a little slow today.
 
 


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - February/13/2009 at 17:12
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/13/2009 at 19:33
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Since we are not being politically correct here, I'll join the fray (admittedly, I was asked to stop by).

OK.  First, take a look at Mithran's post about armchair commandos, except instead of "armchair commando" please insert "armchair physicist".  Then discard RC's low/high energy post as being accurate about the photon energy and off the mark on how it pertains to out vision.

Your eye is most sensitive to green color.  A green dot of the same intensity as the red dot will look brighter to you than red.  That has nothing to do with photon energy.  Blue light photons have more energy green light photons, but your eye sensitivity to blue is quite abysmal.  Typically, worse than to red.  Do a search on "luminosity function" if you want more detail.

In Iraq, which is not heavily forested, green background is hard to come by, so it is probably a good color to use.  In more humid areas with a lot of vegetation, I would probably be more likely to go with amber or red.  Conversely, amber does not work all that well with brightly illuminated yellow/brown background.

However, keep in  mind that with Trijicon's fiber optic light collection systems, the dot is very likely to ALWAYS stand out from the background even if the background is of similar color to the dot (unless you are in the shadow aiming at a brightly lit area, but then you probably have time to aim properly).  Still, it is better to have the dot of different color than your target and its background.

An important thing to remember is that for the same dot intensity, green dot will appear to be brighter than red or amber dots simply because your eye is more sensitive to that color.

Early night vision equipment had greenish illumination simply because the passive photoluminescent screens had that color.  Then it was maintained mostly for the heck of it.  However, since our eyes are more sensitive to green, the screens do not have to be all that bright to have good contrast, i.e. longer battery life.  A lot of modern nightvision stuff lets you switch display color between green and something else (typically red).

Persoanlly, I somewhat prefer red since it has less effect on my night vision.  However, green is a viable choice.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/13/2009 at 21:32
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Not so much the green laser just to go further but as Ilya said it is easier to see.  A green laser will be much easier to see in most if not all light conditions.  The biggest use of them is to provide quick close quarter aim shooting from a seat in a vehicle when proper stock and cheek weld to look through a sight is not possible.  During a daytime mounted patrol a green laser will be easier to see.  I would never use a laser visible to the naked eye at night.  That's what IR is for, but as a day time supplement to your combat optic green is the way to go because it will look brighter.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 01:13
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OK - outdoors daylight - - under those conditions the more visable green would make sense.  I was thinking : clearing buildings room to room.  I just couldnt see a long range use as it would give your position away, but if your position is obvious like a vehicle in daylight then it makes more sense. What make and model or green laser did you use.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2009 at 03:38
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Me personally, I didn't have a laser unit of any kind issued to me.  I didn't even have night vision goggles, just a heavy assed thermal scope with no way to mount it to the rifle to hump around.  Hell I still had an M16A2/M203 using old fashioned iron sights back in 2003.  Since getting out in late 2004 I've used the Viridian green pistol lasers.  Since using them I can see there advantage.  They like all laser sights with the exception of IR lasers for the advantage of well aimed fire at night, are all supplemental to your iron, red dot, or magnified sight systems. 

I didn't mean to be so rough in my last few posts, I just don't like it when ANYONE tries to make a claim about something they have no experience with.
 
Edited to say for Rancid:
 
Uuuhhh don't remind me.  I hated those P.O.S. PVS 7B's.  Rather have gone without.  Almost met my demise down a cliff in Okinawa wearing those hunks of junk.


Edited by Mithran - February/14/2009 at 03:42
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 13:15
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ILya, you didn't have to be so mean and hurtful!

I am definitely an "airchair physicist", physics was a long time ago for me, and I should'a done some polishing up before posting, but my point remains - though I forget now what the point was, but I was kinda mostly right, in saying it not the right way.

Or something.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 13:22
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

ILya, you didn't have to be so mean and hurtful!

I am definitely an "airchair physicist", physics was a long time ago for me, and I should'a done some polishing up before posting, but my point remains - though I forget now what the point was, but I was kinda mostly right, in saying it not the right way.

Or something.


You see, Jeff, in that "Scopies Award" thread I was nominated as being the most  politically correct person on the forums.  I had to do something to dispel that.  I think I will now go back to being polite and reasonable.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2009 at 14:21
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Thanx for that clarification.

For the record, I'd still stick with the Aimpoint.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2009 at 01:35
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TA442

TA442 Trijicon 1.5x16 Compact Acog Rifle Scope                                                                                Trijicon 1.5x16 Compact Acog Rifle Scope
  • Amber Triangle BAC
  • Free Lens Cleaning Pen w/ Purchase
SWFA: $924.95
More Info... Buy Now

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