New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Parallax-letting the genie out of the bottle again
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

Topic ClosedParallax-letting the genie out of the bottle again

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options Page  <12345 6>
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 04:19
8shots View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Lord Of The Flies

Joined: March/14/2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 6040
Originally posted by Dogger Dogger wrote:

I may have to shoot that genie Wouter if I ever see him!
 
Just make sure that you focus out any parallax error, as you are bound to only wound him if you don't. And if you p him off, who knows what magic spell he can cast on you!
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 05:38
Jon A View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: March/14/2008
Location: Everett, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 670
Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

you want a 100% hit?

Yes, I do.  This discussion began in the context of hunting.  If you aren't about that sure of hitting the vital zone with your first shot, you should not take it.   And that's the first shot cold.  After a few shots to dope the wind, unless the conditions are really terrible there's really no excuse for missing with a rifle you think is good enough to take a game animal with at that range.
Quote Jon A, post some of your 600yd targets for us.

Didn't I just post a VIDEO of a 700 yd group for you?  Done with a non-parallax adjustable scope, no less (of course it wasn't 25X either).  Shot with a lightweight rifle too.  No prior wind doping either.  I guess you weren't impressed.      Sad      OK, maybe this is better.  650 yds.  The very first three rounds ever at that range from the 6.5 Grendel I just put together:





I'll admit there was no wind for those.  No parallax either.        Bandito      Just imagine if it was a bolt gun.....       Shocked

Quote I personally set my parallax somewhere midpoint to all the targets and bang away


Why?  You've been arguing to the point of ridiculousness it will not matter if it's set at 100.  So, set it at 100. 

Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

I still maintain that a parallax free scope will not make a person shoot better then with a scope with only 100m free parallax.


So, put your match scores where your mouth is.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 07:16
budperm View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
show me your sheep!!

Joined: January/01/2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 28623
Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

Originally posted by Dogger Dogger wrote:

I may have to shoot that genie Wouter if I ever see him!
 
Just make sure that you focus out any parallax error, as you are bound to only wound him if you don't. And if you p him off, who knows what magic spell he can cast on you!
 
What could he do to Craig?  Make him young again so he has to go through it again?
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 07:24
Dogger View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: January/02/2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 5517
That's too terrible to contemplate bud!
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 09:29
8shots View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Lord Of The Flies

Joined: March/14/2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 6040

Originally posted by Jon A Jon A wrote:

Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

you want a 100% hit?

Yes, I do.  This discussion began in the context of hunting.  If you aren't about that sure of hitting the vital zone with your first shot, you should not take it.   And that's the first shot cold.  After a few shots to dope the wind, unless the conditions are really terrible there's really no excuse for missing with a rifle you think is good enough to take a game animal with at that range

.

Quote

There are very few people out there that can take a 600yds shot with a guranteed first hit. Even 100yds shots are not a guranteed hit in hunting, yet no-one hesitates to take them. I personally have missed shots at all distances, including inside 100 yds. Yet I take shots up to 300 yds without hesitation. For longer distances a lot of other factors come into play, such as type of rest available (rock, tree etc), wind etc. Parallax is not one of them.

 

Jon A, post some of your 600yd targets for us.


Didn't I just post a VIDEO of a 700 yd group for you?  Done with a non-parallax adjustable scope, no less (of course it wasn't 25X either).  Shot with a lightweight rifle too.  No prior wind doping either.  I guess you weren't impressed.            OK, maybe this is better.  650 yds.  The very first three rounds ever at that range from the 6.5 Grendel I just put together:
Quote  

Was that you in the video clip!!!!! Gee, did not know that. Man, I would have stopped this thread a long time ago!!
 


Why?  You've been arguing to the point of ridiculousness it will not matter if it's set at 100.  So, set it at 100. 

 

I cannot do that because the scope focus will be out. I will be unable to see a target 350yds out. 

Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

I still maintain that a parallax free scope will not make a person shoot better then with a scope with only 100m free parallax.


So, put your match scores where your mouth is.

 

Wes-Bolandjag Standaard Baanskiet te Moorreesburg Skietbaan CHASA Formaat – 15 Augustus 2009

Op 15 Augustus 2009 hou Wes-Bolandjag weer hul baie suksesvolle standaard baanskiet op Moorreesburg.

'n Rekord totaal van 82 skuts neem deel op hierdie pragtige dag met feitlik geen wind nie.

Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 09:32
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22034
Shocked
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 09:35
8shots View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Lord Of The Flies

Joined: March/14/2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 6040
Round 14 and still standing:
 
 
 
 
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 09:47
SD Dog View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
OT Scratching Post

Joined: February/28/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 4177
Nice shootin Wouter.  Didn't know they gave a woman away as a prize.  Maybe it ain't as bad down there as you make it out to be.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 11:37
silver View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master


Joined: November/04/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2291

After two weeks and at least 7 post a day I thought I would post an executive summary:

 
ThinkingSharp ShooterBowExcellentDevilSharp ShooterMoonerBeating a Dead HorseBabyJerry SpringerRoll EyesStiring The PotPokerSumuDie
 
Or while tollerances should stack, other factors swamp out parallax
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 11:40
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
TEAM SWFA - Admin
TEAM SWFA - Admin
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 30088
Laugh
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 12:56
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22034
damn good shooting wouter ole boy.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 12:59
Dogger View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: January/02/2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 5517
He does pretty good for an old guy don't he Hunter.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 13:01
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22034
id say craig, he would kick my butt all day long! i dont think i could shoot that good at 300yds
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 13:43
Jon A View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: March/14/2008
Location: Everett, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 670
Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

For longer distances a lot of other factors come into play, such as type of rest available (rock, tree etc), wind etc. Parallax is not one of them.


If you really don't mind missing, I guess it isn't.  I do mind missing.  Haven't done it in a very long time.

Quote Was that you in the video clip!!!!! Gee, did not know that. Man, I would have stopped this thread a long time ago!!


Darn.  I should have made sure you understood that.  Think of all the fun we could have avoided!

Quote I cannot do that because the scope focus will be out. I will be unable to see a target 350yds out.


Just turn the power down, it'll come into focus.  You don't need 25X for 400 yds either.
Quote Match Results


I see, asking to see my target was just a ploy to give you an excuse to post those.      Excellent      Nice shooting.      Thunbs Up     But of course, unless you shot all those matches on 25X with the parallax set at 100...they mean what to this discussion?   Thought so.        Loco

And just so you know, 8" plates at a max of 400 yds ≠ Long Range Precision which is how the subject originally came up.  In fact, the way you describe the matches you do I'd probably like to use my 4X ACOG with the JP reticle.  That thing is fast...and plenty precise for a 8" plate at 400 yds.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 16:09
skywalker View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: January/16/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 149
So let me get this right......a 3X15X42 scope w/out an AO whose parallax adjustment comes from the factory at 100m, would be just fine for shooting up to 400 yrds?  Scope in question is the new Minox Za5.

Now I am completely confused.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 16:14
budperm View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
show me your sheep!!

Joined: January/01/2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 28623
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

id say craig, he would kick my butt all day long! i dont think i could shoot that good at 300yds
 
We definitely want him on OUR side!  Dead-eye Le Roux!  Excellent
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 16:15
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
TEAM SWFA - Admin
TEAM SWFA - Admin
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 30088
Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

id say craig, he would kick my butt all day long! i dont think i could shoot that good at 300yds
 
We definitely want him on OUR side!  Dead-eye Le Roux!  Excellent
 
Second that
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 20:30
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight


Joined: July/04/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5087
Yes, I do.  This discussion began in the context of hunting.  If you aren't about that sure of hitting the vital zone with your first shot, you should not take it.   And that's the first shot cold.  After a few shots to dope the wind, unless the conditions are really terrible there's really no excuse for missing with a rifle you think is good enough to take a game animal with at that range.
Couldn't agree more -- as far as it goes. when does not be sure actually stop taking the shot? This is such an open ended statement its not even addressable.
skywalker -- it depends on the size of the target and the rig, the parallax error must be within the cone of fire, or dispersion of the rig.
Alot of 3 gun shooters, have a hash mark on their aos about 300 yds, and dial mag, back for movers and closer targets, it depends on how much overlap the ao has on the scope your using.
Jon -- the first thing one learns about doping wind in other peoples zip codes, is that its never constant, doping wind in this area means you have it down to between 10 and 20 mph.
Part of the problem I had , was the wind actually moving the pickup. Given a prone, on a fairly good day, there is no doubt I could do it cold bore, 500-600 yds isn't that hard of a shot, mostly because you haven't given any time constraints in your discussion.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 20:45
Roy Finn View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Steiner Junkie

Joined: April/05/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4856
Boy, I've read through this thread and all I can say is some of you guys are killing the spirit of hunting as I know it.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2010 at 22:59
skywalker View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: January/16/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 149
Deer, mulies, elk........would be the target...
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2010 at 00:50
8shots View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Lord Of The Flies

Joined: March/14/2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 6040
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

id say craig, he would kick my butt all day long! i dont think i could shoot that good at 300yds
 
We definitely want him on OUR side!  Dead-eye Le Roux!  Excellent
 
Second that
 
Thanks for the kind words. I must say that I posted that with reservation. Unfortunately the thread kinda overrode my better judgement.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2010 at 00:52
8shots View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Lord Of The Flies

Joined: March/14/2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 6040
Round 15.....I am outa here.
 
 
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2010 at 06:30
Jon A View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: March/14/2008
Location: Everett, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 670
Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

doping wind in this area means you have it down to between 10 and 20 mph.  Part of the problem I had , was the wind actually moving the pickup.

If the wind was that bad, why did you think the comparison would yield any useful information?
Quote mostly because you haven't given any time constraints in your discussion.

Dale, really, I luv you man.  But geeze, if you aren't going to read what is written the discussion becomes quite tiresome.  From this thread alone:
Originally posted by Jon A Jon A wrote:

If you need to shoot quickly,

Originally posted by Jon A Jon A wrote:

because you didn't take the time and go to the extreme effort required to center the reticle in the middle of the error zone as he described above,

Originally posted by Jon A Jon A wrote:

can take some time and deliberately apply specific additional techniques that will allow him to still make the shot (at 400 yds at least).  If he's in too big a hurry or forgets in the blur of pressure,

Originally posted by Jon A Jon A wrote:

With shots taken from odd field positions from uneven terrain when you only had a couple seconds to shoot?

Time constraints was one of the most important things I've been talking about.  If your scope has a significant amount of parallax error at the distance you're shooting, that's something else you need to spend time thinking about, something else you need to spend time ensuring you negate with your shooting technique.  This time is in addition to the time you need to think about everything else you need to do to make the shot.  Failure to do so risks increasing the size of your "cone of fire."

Guys, my goodness.  I can only ask you take a step back and ask yourselves why you're trying to argue whatever it is you're trying to argue.  Arguments for the sake of stubbornness beyond all reason abound all over the internet; I halfway expect somebody to interject here at any moment that all one needs to do is "focus a scope correctly" and parallax is never a problem...but hopefully people aren't that far off the deepend yet.

But arguing a scope condition which results in the reticle dancing up, down and all around on the target with every twitch of the eyeball is the ideal condition for accuracy?  That it makes absolutely no difference in any way and doesn't make it more difficult to place a shot quickly and accurately at all?  

Really, it's beyond silliness.  Please, take a step back and think about what you're saying.  I can only do so much.


Edited by Jon A - January/20/2010 at 06:32
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2010 at 06:34
Dogger View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: January/02/2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 5517
............and we thank you for it Jon
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2010 at 06:43
8shots View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Lord Of The Flies

Joined: March/14/2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 6040
No Jon A, you are being the ass.
It has been proven you can shoot well enough without an AO. 
No-one can  focus an AO in a couple of seconds and still pull the shot off,  so your "quickly" will also be impossible.
 
We have all made various statements, some correct, some wrong and some unproven. In a forum, make your point and let it go. A adult reader can sift the chaff from the wheat himself.
 
Hopefully you have said it all now.
 
PS, you are the Great Shot. Go and test a scope with and without parallax like we did and give us your honest feedback.
 


Edited by 8shots - January/20/2010 at 06:45
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 6>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "Parallax-letting the genie out of the bottle again"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
There are no similar posts.


This page was generated in 0.326 seconds.