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Out of Elevation adj on Zeiss 4.5x14x50

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 20:10
horizonod View Drop Down
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Hey Guys. My name is Nick and  I'm new here so I guess a "Hey, how y'all doin'" is the first order of business. Thank you for the opportunity to pick your brains.
 
I used to be pretty into hunting, shooting reloading etc until things turned south and I lost interest in lots of things. Life happens.
 
Recently I became interested in my old hobby again and built myself a Remington 700 30-06 on a  Houge aluminum pillar bedded aluminum frame camo stock topped off withb a Leopold VX-3 4.5x14x50. After some tweeking and hair pulling it shoots like a champ with 5 shot prints at 100 yds you can cover with a dime. (usually).
 
Well that got me ALL excited and I guess the bug is back so for my birthday I went out and got myself a Rock River LAR8 (.308) Varmint with a 26" ss bull barrel and topped it off with a Zeiss 4.5x14x50 with a Rapid Z1000 reticle. I feel like it's Christmas morning with a new sled and NO SNOW.
 
Here's the problem.
 
 The center line of the scope is about 2 inches above the centerline of the barrel.
 
 I'm using a laser boresighter with the rifle in a vice 6 feet away from a target mounted on the wall with the scope on it's lowest power. The windage adjustement is still a tad right of the verticle plane and completely out of horizontal adjustement. (no clicks left to move it left any more)
 
The elevation is cranked to it's last click and it barely touches the very bottom of the verticle crosshair. (great for that odd 1357 yard shot but not great for much else)
 
I figured maybe I got some wopperjawed rings so I swapped them out and the result was excatly the same thing.
 
The rifle is a flat top with a picatiny rail and with medium height rings and the bell sits a tad under 1/4 inch from the handguard. I'd like it a little lower but that may come later. Anyway there is a note on the in manual that the Zeiss conquest 8x24x50 should be mounted on a 20MOA rail for long distances. I don't want to add anything that is going to raise my scope any more than it is #1. And #2 the wall is only 6 feet away. Is there something I'm missing or forgot?? Shouldn't I be able to set my cross hairs a couple of inches below the laser dot so I'm on the paper when I take it outside?
 
I don't want to shim it and I don't want a 20 MOA rail to raise it. I've looked for a set of rings that might cure my problem and all I'm finding is the Burris signatures with optional adjustement insets.
 
This is a respectable rifle and a respectable scope talored specifically to the .308 caliber.
 
What am I doing wrong ?
 
Thanks in advance and, if it's something stupid, be gentle with me, I'm just getting back into this after a pretty long absence.Loco
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 20:28
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Howdy

Did the instructions with the bore sighter mention anything about distance? I ask because mine say 20 feet. For the .308 mine also has a circle the dot should be tuned to and a mark the cross hairs need to be set on. "it's about 3.5 inches between the 2 marks with the cross hairs on the top side and the dot underneath" It's worked with 2 .308's so far.

I'd be curious to see what type of rings you have. You've bought first rate gear, but it sounds like you've got ring issues.

There are some really sharp guys here who can help more than me. I'm sure they'll chime in shortly.

Hope you get it all sorted out soon and enjoy the rifle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 20:35
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Hi neil. Thanks for the input. My bore sighter is a standard inexpensive bushnell. I'll check the instructions and see.
 
I suspected my rings. I'm not even sure what brand they are because they came out of a spare stuff box. It seems odd that two seperate matched sets of rings would produce identicle results if either were flawed.
 
That's why I'm scratching my head.
 
The weekend commeth and I want to get out n shoot this rig.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 20:51
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Before I got the Zeiss scope I had a Countersniper scope that Dark Ops sent me as a sample a few years ago. Never had anything to mount it on so it was just sitting here when my rifle came. I hadn't decided on the right scope yet so I mounted it and it was surprisingly "right on" with the bore sighter as soon as I mated them together. Took them out to shoot and needed nearly no windage and only a few inches of elevation to print nice 2 inch high groups at 100 yds.
 
The scope didn't trip my trigger though. It was too "dark op" hyped, got controversial reveiws and I had no confidence in it so what's the point of letting it sit on such a nice frrearm? It would be so much more appropriate for a paintball sniper rifle weilded by some gen x mall ninja type.Wink
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 20:58
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Hmmmm....  a countersniper scope "hooks up" just fine and the Zeiss will not.  Those countersnipers must be really good scopes...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 20:59
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I thought you bore sighted an AR by going to the range and breaking the upper and lower and looked down the bore at a 100 yd target and set it in sand bags.  Then move the reticle to the center of the target and put it back together and take a shot.
Works about 100% of the time.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 21:22
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aww man I always thought the guys with their rifles in 2 pieces had broken them, or were trying to get stuck shell casings out of them. Wink

Seriously, I know jack squat about AR's .... AK's on the other hand, I know a bit about.

If one scope lined-up and the other did not with the same rings you either got a gooned-up scope, or the rail isn't tight and got shifted a smidge when you were working on it.

 Were it me, I'd try doing what Brass suggested. Welcome
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 21:39
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You were right the first time Mr Neil. Cudos to you. I owe you a cold one.Big Grin
 
I set my target up 25 feet away and dialed it right in. NOW it's time to go to "the range", about 20 feet from me back door, and punch some paper at 100 yds to get it dialed inat yardage.
 
I see my case of Tannerite getting smaller already.
 
For all of the bad press the countersniper scopes have gotten the one I have seems pretty good. I've compared it's crispness, contrast and light gathering to my VX3 and my Zeiss and it's not too far off. The 2 color green and red illuminated reticle with 5 brightness settings is tits. I'm just not trusting it until I have time to test it out.
 
I think allot of the bad press is a result of dark ops over the top supercalifragilisticexpialidocious BS hype and allot of followers that never took time to actually give the scope a chance but decided since their favorite Mr Knowitall doesn't like it they don't like it either.Loco
 
Anyway thanks. I'll let you know how it prints.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 21:47
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Hey if you still have the countersniper scope we have a "lott" that needs a target...... Just kidding.  Glad you got it all figured out. Welcome to the OT.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/12/2010 at 22:02
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Thanks for the help.
 
I think she's ready for her shak down if the weather clears up.Big Grin
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2010 at 15:46
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Good deal man, happy to of been a little help. I've taken way more than I'll ever give back here, so any  help I give is  just paying back others.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2010 at 17:12
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I have owned two Counter Sniper scopes, and still have one on my AR. Yes, the marketing is ridiculous, but you can't argue with performance. From reading all the posts about this product, I get the impression that many people on this forum give uninformed opinions. If you haven't held, mounted, sited, and fired with a product then there is a good chance you should not say too much about it...
 
If you want a good scope for a good price Counter Sniper Scopes are not a bad choice. This comes from someone who has actually used them - not someone who has had my "optics-elitist" sensibilities offended.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2010 at 17:24
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LMAO!  Here's your sign....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2010 at 18:21
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Very clever and usefull topbrass.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2010 at 09:36
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How many rounds do you have with them?  Have you ran box tests with them?  Do a box test at 25 yards and move the POI a good 4 or 5  inches around the target with the adjustments.  Take some pics of doing it with your target and post back and show us.  At that distance it should be a perfect square and your last shot should be exactly back to your original zero.  If not then you know the scope does not track well.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2010 at 09:50
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Between the two that I have owned, I probably have 70-100 rounds at the range and about 30-40 in the field on hunts. I'm no paper puncher, but will try to find some time to perform the box test and post results.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2010 at 09:57
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No offense bro, but I don't know how you can say they have great performance when you have barely even used them.  There has been many that have had your same opinion when they first got the scopes and had barely used them.  But all of them down the road after then really used them have had problems.  I have an IOR scope that has been on an AR for nearly 10,000 rounds.  That scope I can say is a reliable scope.  I am not saying you have to shoot 10,000 rounds to prove it is good.  But don't come on here trying to convince people they are good scopes when in reality you have not shot it enough to really know anything for sure yet. 

There was a guy over on snipershide who talked them up for months and months on how cool they were and how great the customer service was.  Well finally he realized after he had to keep sending them back over and over that customer service don't mean jack if the product is a POS. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2010 at 11:20
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Originally posted by chadro chadro wrote:

From reading all the posts about this product, I get the impression that many people on this forum give uninformed opinions. If you haven't held, mounted, sited, and fired with a product then there is a good chance you should not say too much about it...
 
If you want a good scope for a good price Counter Sniper Scopes are not a bad choice. This comes from someone who has actually used them - not someone who has had my "optics-elitist" sensibilities offended.
 
Since you thought it necessary to take an unsolicited cheap shot at the forum members, I guess you would have no problem pointing out where these "uninformed opinions" were offered on the Countersniper products, would you?
 
If you were going to buy some new tires, and you had a choice between Michelins at $600 / set or the new "Asphalt Gladiator (TM) butyl polymer extreme vehicle mobilization traction system units" with "TensoFlex Kryptonite-enriched Ferrotryllium Alloy Reinforcement Armor Belts" that were "Baja offroad racing contract overruns" originally priced at $8,000 / set, but if you buy today, you can get them for $400 / set... which would you have the most confidence in?  If you noticed some serious cosmetic and tread mold flaws in the Asphalt Gladiators, would that make you wonder about the manufacturer's performance claims?  If you then read many other owners' experiences that were very negative, would this boost your confidence in them? 
 
Would it then be necessary to actually mount the tires and use them in a Baja race to have a pretty certain opinion that they aren't as good as the manufacturer claims just based on the evidence?  Or, would your previous experience coupled with your educated inspection of the tires in the store, coupled with common sense be sufficent to detect b.s.?  Wouldn't the manufacturer's over-the-top marketing hype and price manipulation practices make you suspicious of their honesty?  Would you want to buy products from a company who demonstrates obvious, fundamental dishonesty in their advertising? 
 
I saw and handled the CS scopes at SHOT.  I said I thought they were crap.  This is based on not only the b.s. marketing hype, but also the fact the samples I handled were not up to the standards of other $500 scopes, much less their advertised "list price" of $5000.  The adjustment feel was mushy, the tube anodizing was not a Type III hardcoat as they advertise, and their reps could not or would not answer simple questions.  No, I did not buy one, mount it and use it before expressing my opinions, but then I don't believe that was necessary based on what I did see.  Even if they are serviceable, I can think of other scopes at the same price that offered better optical quality and fit and finish.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2010 at 12:04
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

 set or the new "Asphalt Gladiator (TM) butyl polymer extreme vehicle mobilization traction system units" with "TensoFlex Kryptonite-enriched Ferrotryllium Alloy Reinforcement Armor Belts" that were "Baja offroad racing contract overruns" originally priced at $8,000 / set, but if you buy today, you can get them for $400 / set...
Ted, where can I find a set of tires like that,  I been needing something that will make my truck hug he road better.........lolBucky
 
 
BTW,  well said my friend.  well said!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/26/2010 at 17:27
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Get the Michelin LTX.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/02/2010 at 16:35
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Michelin's for me!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/02/2010 at 18:32
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I got the CS scope for the price of a decent Tasco. It looks good enough and has all the cool thingamabobs n doodads but I'm not shot on any company that has to oversell their product like the CS folks.

I glassed my RR with Zeiss for a reason,......peace of mind.
 
I'll top off something a little less serious with the CS glass and put it through it's paces. Truthfully I don't know if the CS is good or bad, I just know Zeiss is good.
 
The CS scope seems pretty clear and sharp though. I've eyeballed through it alongside my Leupold and my Zeiss and it's pretty close for less than half the price.
 
Time will tell.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/02/2010 at 18:35
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PS.
 
Shooting sub M.O.A groups now with factory ammo.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2011 at 14:58
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Got her figured out and dialed in.Excellent
 
Consistent sub M.O.A. groups from a bipob (not a solid rest) with factory ammo.
 
I'm happy with it and can't wait to take a truckload of ammo to the l     o     n     g    Range facility in the near future.
 
The mountains of western North Carolina don't offer many reachy ranges.
 
Thanks again for the help. Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best. 
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