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Optics quality and reflections from the sky

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2015 at 18:53
Scottyman View Drop Down
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 I have an HD5 and a Vortex Razor Gen II (with sunshade) that both washout in the upper mag range when viewing an object in the direction the sun has recently set through dark. The images look fogged over and the contrast is terrible as a result of the reflection from the sky. I'd like to know if the more advanced lenses used in higher end scopes will eliminate or greatly reduce this undesired effect of the bright sky. Ex. Zeiss Victory FL line. Do all scopes exhibit this behavior when viewing in the direction of the set sun to the same degree?
 I'd love to see a comparison test under this condition.
 In the field where I shoot, max range can only be used safely in one direction and I often don't have the luxury of shooting any time of day. Also, game doesn't always show up under optimal viewing conditions.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2015 at 19:23
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What you are decribing is called veiling flare.

All scopes are subject to it to varying degrees.  Higher end scopes exhibit this effect less though.

You may want to consider an ARD.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2015 at 19:41
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

What you are decribing is called veiling flare.

All scopes are subject to it to varying degrees.  Higher end scopes exhibit this effect less though.

You may want to consider an ARD.

ILya

Ilya:

Good explanation, some scopes are better than others, but looking towards the sun

is an issue with any optic.  Some of the earlier Nikon Monarch riflescopes had a front

lens hood available, to greatly help with this issue. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2015 at 21:56
Scottyman View Drop Down
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

What you are decribing is called veiling flare.

All scopes are subject to it to varying degrees.  Higher end scopes exhibit this effect less though.

You may want to consider an ARD.

ILya



An ARD will work where a sunshade will not?
I'm curious how much less the Diavari FL would experience this compared to the two I mentioned.
It's surprising how much flare is produced long after the sun has set. In the pictures of it I've seen, the sun is always up. In my case, it's mostly at sunset 'til dark.


Edited by Scottyman - August/09/2015 at 22:07
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2015 at 10:23
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Yes, in situations like you describe, a well designed ARD is more helpful than a sunshade. 

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2015 at 10:53
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Aiming toward the sun on the horizon at dawn and dusk is a tough test for any scope. You will almost certainly get some degree of veiling flare.

You wondered how well the Zeiss Victory FL will control flare. I don't know how the current generation of Zeiss Victory series scopes handle this scenario, but I do own a Zeiss Diavari VM/V 2.5-10X50, and I would classify its flare resistance, especially against low angle sunlight, as poor. It is a great scope optically, but its ability to resist veiling flare is not one of its strengths. In fact, it's the worst at handling flare of all of my "higher end" scopes. The Swarovski Z6 and Leica ER both thoroughly trounce the Zeiss on flare resistance, but in fairness both of those scopes are more recent designs. Zeiss may have improved Victory series flare resistance since then. All of them exhibit some degree of flare against low angle sunlight, however.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2015 at 12:34
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  Your Zeiss VM/V flares quite a bit after sunset from the bright sky?
I'm considering the Diavari FL 6-24X56 and the V8 4.8-35X60. The V8 uses Schott HT and FL glass, but with many more lense elements.

 I'm surprised about your VM/V. I had the same scope a number of years ago and compared it to a Swarovski PH in many light conditions. The Zeiss won out by a very tiny amount. Swarovski obviously made improvements since then and I'm sure Zeiss has too. I hope.


Edited by Scottyman - August/10/2015 at 12:47
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2015 at 13:01
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Originally posted by Scottyman Scottyman wrote:

  Your Zeiss VM/V flares quite a bit after sunset from the bright sky?


Yes, more so than I'd prefer.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2015 at 14:14
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Victory FL is a newer design, so it will be a little better for veiling flare than VM/V.

The source of veiling flare is usually within the objective lens system, so the added complexity of the erector assembly in the newer scopes is unlikely to have much of the effect.

Generally, larger objective lens scopes are more prone to veiling flare than smaller ones although there are many other contributions, of course.  Still, all other things being equal, a 42mm scope will hav eless veiling flare than a 50mm scope. 

Leica does a very good job of controlling veiling flare and that is one of the reasons I have a slight preference to Leica (Kahles also seems to do a good job with this) among high end hunting scopes.

Either way, if there is an ARD available for your scope, I would try that before changing the scope.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2015 at 14:49
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The Leica ER is the best riflescope on the planet.......... grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2015 at 16:46
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A bit biased are we Roy? Big Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2015 at 18:44
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yes....very
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/11/2015 at 22:00
Scottyman View Drop Down
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Victory FL is a newer design, so it will be a little better for veiling flare than VM/V.

The source of veiling flare is usually within the objective lens system, so the added complexity of the erector assembly in the newer scopes is unlikely to have much of the effect.

Generally, larger objective lens scopes are more prone to veiling flare than smaller ones although there are many other contributions, of course.  Still, all other things being equal, a 42mm scope will hav eless veiling flare than a 50mm scope. 

Leica does a very good job of controlling veiling flare and that is one of the reasons I have a slight preference to Leica (Kahles also seems to do a good job with this) among high end hunting scopes.

Either way, if there is an ARD available for your scope, I would try that before changing the scope.

ILya


ARD's don't reduce the image quality in any way?
Update: Ordered the SunGuard killFlash ARD. 

Edited by Scottyman - August/13/2015 at 12:24
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2015 at 14:10
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ARD reduce the overall amount of light getting to the scope, so for very low light it makes a difference.  FOr any other lighting conditions, if the ARD is well designed, overall image quality will not change.

ILya
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