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Optics for 6.5Grendel and 6.8SPC

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/19/2006 at 19:42
koshkin View Drop Down
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It looks like I'll be able to build up a couple of AR rifles in the next few months.  I am fairly new to ARs and after looking through the options fairly dilligently, I think I'll build one as a 16" CAR in 6.8SPC, and another one with a somewhat longer and heavier barrel in 6.5Grendel.  Both will get Rock River Arms two-stage triggers and both will be flattops.

 

Now I am trying to figure out what the optimal glass would be.  Since 6.8SPC has a trajectory that is extremely similar to 75gr 223 and 168gr 308, I'll probably put an IOR 4x24M1 on it since it has 308BDC.  That scope is currently on a Kel-tec SU16 which will then need a replacement scope.

 

6.5Grendel seems to be a pretty capable long range cartridge which would probably imply something with a bit more magnification.

 

Then I'll need to put something else on the Kel-tec 223Rem, which is proving to be a remarkably handy and accurate little gun.  Now that the trigger is fairly broken in, I like it more and more.

 

As far as optics go, I am open to suggestions.  My only requirement is that the optics should not be German.  Money wise, I'd like to spend no more than a grand or so alltogether (optics and mounts). 

 

Spending less is always a good thing though

 

So far I am thinking:

 

CAR 6.8SPC ---> IOR 4x24 (already have that one) in IOR High QD rings.  ACOGs are too expensive or I'd get one (for this).

 

HBAR 6.5Grendel ---> Super Sniper 10x42? I would really like an IOR 2-12x32, but that price tag makes me depressed. Variable SS might be available by the time I get around to this.  I have a set of high ARMS QD rings so something with a 30mm tube would be preferable (although not necessary). 

 

Kel-tec 223Rem -->  this is a 5 pound gun, so I am looking for something light. Burris Fullfield II 2-7x35 with BalPlex? Signature Select 3-10x40 with BalPlex?

 

Thanks.

Ilya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2006 at 01:01
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Ilya,

          You could get what you want, if you will excuse me for being obvious; as you know what I am about to say, a Burris 4- 16 Ballistic Mil Dot, or as you have already pointed out to me, an XTR with available Target turret adjustments and it all could be had for less than 1 grand!  What do you think?  If you have access to a gun shop in your neck of the woods, scope out the Burris's next to what you were thinking of putting on those flat tops, I think you will be impressed.

           Scott

                I have a few test targets to send you for your evaluation.  I will send you a private message so that you might check this particular target out.

                  

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2006 at 01:54
koshkin View Drop Down
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Yeah, I've been considering various Burris scopes as well.  Black Diamonds are awefully big though.  I might look more into the Euro Diamond line.  Another option would be to get an IOR 2.5-10x42 scope.  As far as XTR scopes go, I am not sure that they are worth the difference in price over Euro Diamond scopes.  I'd need to spend a little more time with those turrets.  All in all I am not sure I want to go beyond 10x or 12x which is why I was considering a fixed 10x among other options (Super Sniper is pretty affordable to boot).  That IOR 2-12x32 that I've been salivating over is a real gem though.

Ilya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2006 at 20:29
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Ilya,

        I just got an update in my personal email folder of a Leupold Advertisement for their new VX-L line.  You know those scopes that have a barrel contour taken out of their objective lenses.  I don't really think I am ever going to buy one of those, but I might definitely look through one of them, what do you think of all that? 

        I imagine that the scope covers will be only available from Leupold, and be quite Expensive, don't you agree?  Once again, Leupold is going further and further into the Stratosphere as far as price is concerned, and becoming less and less affordable to the average shooter, in my humble opinion.

     Scott

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2006 at 01:16
koshkin View Drop Down
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I got that advertisement as well.  It looks like those are VX-III scopes with additional Diamond Coat on on outer lens surfaces and a funny shape.  I don't think I am interested, but we'll see how well they are recieved (overpriced as hell, IMO).

Ilya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2006 at 18:50
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Hello Ilya,

        I have been away from my computer for a week or so, and have not had time until now to access what you've written me.  I tried going to that website, but since i have such a slow connection, I could not get to the info that told me about the 6.8 SPC or the grendel.  Maybe you could shed some light on it for me here or in a PM.  Anyway, I like talking with others who are interested in high class optics and that is why I continue to ask these sorts of questions, and discussions.  I did just recently look at a Nikon and a Leupold Tactical side by side, and I did notice one heck of a difference in clarity and light transmission favoring the Nikon.  Have you ever done so?

           Scott

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2006 at 19:04
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koshkin:

 

Any update on your scope selection??

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2006 at 22:50
koshkin View Drop Down
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Scott, there has been a lot written about 6.5 Grendel and 6.8SPC and I would be hard pressed to go over all of that information in a post.  A good overview is in a magazine called "Complete Book of AR-15" and it is on the bookshelves still (it is a compilation of a bunch of Guns and Ammo articles, I think).. 

In a nutshell, 6.5 Grendel is a 6mm PPC necked up to accept 6.5mm bullets.  Due to very high ballistic coefficient of 6.5mm bullets it retains energy very well.  Current commercial ammo is manufactured by Lapua with a 123gr bullet goign at about 2650 fps.  Several 6.5 Grendel loads end up remaining supersonic all the way out to 1200 yards and have very mild recoil.  The cartridge is small enough to fit in AR platform and there are several upper assemblies available with accurate Lothat Walter barrels.

6.8SPC was designed by a bunch of special forces people and standardized by Remington.  It is 270 bullet (0.270"=6.8mm) in a modified 30 Remington case (rimless 30-30).  It is reported to have excellent terminal performance out of an AR platform.  115gr OTM bullet at 2650fps seems to be the ticket for this cartidge for the military, but there are many excellent hunting bullets available in this caliber.

For the time being, I think I'll concentratre on getting the 6.5Grendel buiilt up since it is of more interest to me.

Cheaptrick, I am still trying to figure out what I want (and how much I can spend and still remain married).  I think I'll start out with a 4-16x42MD SIghtron that I have and see if I can scrounge up enough funds for an IOR.

Ilya


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2006 at 01:30
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Thanks Ilya,

        That is all I really wanted to know.  I thank you for taking the time to write me with the facts of it.  It was a real hassle trying to navigate that site you sent me to, and gleaning enough info out of it to get some idea of what they were talking about, without going nuts.

         If you really want an IOR, then I am thinking you should save for it.  I was going to mention that the best way to get your wife behind the idea of your springing for an expensive scope was to have her go with you and learn to shoot, but then I realized that is sort of a double edged sword, so to speak...  On the one hand if she likes it, she will want to come all the time, and if you really enjoy her close scrutiny at the range, that could be a good thing, but on the other hand, if she learns how to shoot, and she ever gets really torqued at you sometime, you might end up having taking a really long dirt nap!! 

         I had better stay away from any pretense of providing GOOD marital advice.I am thinking that something might have steered you away from the ideas of Burris, or perhaps, IOR is where your heart goes to, for great optics??? 

          Anyway, have a great week!

                   Scott

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2006 at 16:39
koshkin View Drop Down
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I take my wife shooting occasionally.  She has also shot a gun once or twice back when she was in the army in Israel.  She was in a non-combat duty though, so she had very minimal firearm training.

 

As for scopes, I like Burris, but IOR is better optically (and more expensive).  I also like MP-8 reticle that IOR has.  I have more or less abandoned the 6.8SPC for the time being and I will first put together the 6.5Grendel gun.  With Grendel I have a choice of available ammunition with bullets that range from 90 grain Speer TNTs to 144gr Lapua FMJBT and everything in between.  That's considerable versatility, and I am looking for a versatile and not too heavy of a scope with the best glass I can get. 

 

IOR 2.5-10x42, Burris Euro DIamond and Signature Select 3-10x40, Bushnell ELite 4200 2.5-10x40 are all about the right size and weight.  I like range-finding/holdover reticles which eliminates Elite 4200 (an otherwise excellent scope). 

 

Burris Black Diamond scopes all have 50mm objective bells which I consider excessive. 

 

Meopta Meostar scopes have glass comparable to IOR, but they also have 50mm objective lenses and are heavy.

 

Leupold makes several models that are of the right size and have interesting reticles (a personal weakness of mine), but I am not overly impressed with VX-III glass (especially for the money).

 

That prety much leaves me with a money question: $400-$450 or so for a Burris 3-10x40 or $650-$700 for the IOR 2.5-10x42.  Since I certainly do not have the money to buy either one of them right now (I am about to drop about a grand into the rifle itself), I will set it up with a Sightron S2 4-16x42 that I have.  I'll be turning 30 in about three months, so I expect to have more discretionary funds at that point (and to pay off my current firearm related credit card bills).

 

ILya

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