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Optic/Mount selection for Remi 700 SPS Tactical

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2010 at 23:47
TheRiverMonster View Drop Down
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Hello all!
 
Before I even begin I want to let everyone know that I understand that creating this post is like beating a dead horse. However the time has come for me to show green, so I figured that I should ask that same old question again, but this time based on my particular circumstances.
I am looking for suggestions for optics, rings and base for a Remington 700 SPS Tactical in .308 Win.
Requirements:
Budget: $800 on the high end for the scope and mounting hardware.
Reticle: Undecided
Adjustments: Large "tactical" style finger turrets. Rear focus/parallax adjustment.
Shooting distance: I would like to be able to engage targets out to 1000 yrds and a bit farther if possible.
 
 
I look forward to hearing all opinions as this will help me make the best decision for my needs. I will also create a detailed report in this thread based upon the information that is shared and my experiences with the scope and mounting that I decide to purchase.
 
Thank you all for your time and please let me know if I left out any necessary information.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2010 at 01:01
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Wait one more week for the buy and put 200 on top. Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20x50 Rapid-Z 1000 On an EGW 20MOA short action base with SWFA LOW rings.  Or an SWFA 10x42M with Kenton Industries custom BDC knobs for Elevation/Windage shooting Black Hills 175BTSP.  Should push it real good. MINE DOES!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2010 at 01:14
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P.S.  Contact H and S for a stock replacement. May see as much group improvement as I did. Five shot the only way with one foul shot discounted for a .8 minus .3 for a .5 average. this is .5  improvement at 100yd for a very novice shaky non-snipa schooled deer only hunter. O, and thats on a bench rest at Henry Creek WMA range, Alabama. Stock cost as mush as rifle did but most any shooter would be well pleased to own a .30 caliber that shoots half's.  Till you scrap stock can't scope this gun's potential.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2010 at 01:25
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O and I know I am on a roll here but scrap the .308 past a grand. It drops the sound barrier not far past and falls literally outta the sky. I know mass marketing has most including myself believing we should top 5,6,.....and so on yards. You got the money and time there are alot better suited ballistic rounds for 1000yd shooting. Try .408CheyTac.com. Or for game a....300RUM or better .30-.378 Weatherby. With correct ammo these two will take Grizzly's all day long. Or so it is, I read.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2010 at 09:02
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FuddyDudd, did I set you off or something? 3 posts in less than 30 minutes! You must have a Remi 700 SPS too, huh?!
Anyhow, thank you for the information. I am actually very interested in replacing the stock on my rifle so I will get in touch with H and S and see what they have to say.
Why do you recommend waiting to purchase for another week? Are optics going on sale?
The SWFA low rings are high enough to mount a 50mm objective on a 700?
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2010 at 09:05
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3-9Super Sniper in SWFA or TPS rings (low will work.)
 
Forget the 1,000-yard shooting till you really know the gun, the scope, and the round.  People like talking about 1000-yard shots and 1000-yad guns, but most of those people stick to 100-200 yard ranges (don't know Fuddy, not insinuating he is that "people.")
 
You will get more utility from a lower-power scope now, and it stays under your budget.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2010 at 09:33
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That’s the gun I have.  I have a Warne 1 piece tactical base and Warne maxima rings.  I’m getting ready to be on my third scope on the gun when it gets here in a few days.  I started with a 2-7x36 Kahles, just didn't seem like enough scope.  Then I put a Bushnell Elite 4200 2.5-10x50 with Warne Tactical rings, the scope is nice but with the tactical rings and 50mm I just couldn't get comfortable, seemed my head was always too high.  So know I have a SS 3-9x42 with low rings on the way, hoping this is finally the right package. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2010 at 09:53
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rancid has some good advice...

i own the same gun, originally bought it to mostly shoot at 600yds and under and hunting, but i have ended up shooting it out to 900yds on occasion with good accuracy. have done a few poor boy modications to the gun that have helped, but ill stay on topic and answer your original questions...

My current setup is the EGW heavy duty base($40 to $70 depending on which alum one you buy), burris xtr low rings ($45, bought these bfor chris has his SS rings out), and the SS 3x9. Some ppl who have different needs from a gun than i do or are richer will recommend other (more expensive) rings and bases,  go for it if you can afford it, but it wasnt in my budget at the time. my setup is working fine so ill leave it as is. 

I like my SS3x9 at 90% of the ranges i shoot and would buy the same scope again, but at those long distances you are talking about a lil more mag would be nice (how often do you plan on shooting that far?). Is this only a long distance set up where you can maybe get by with a fixed 16x SS or do you require a variable? I will say the FFP and mil/mil adjustments are real nice to use.

Dont know your situation, but a cheap daily fix for the fun of long range shooting for me is see how far i can stretch a 22LR out (i dont have access to 1000yd ranges daily).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2010 at 10:49
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I have two rifles that are similar so here's my $.02:

1) Yes, it would be nice to have the H-S (or a MacMillan) stock. I have H-S on both, but would hate to have to pay to add them after-market.

2) It is possible to keep a .308 round out of a 24" barrel supersonic almost all the way out to 1000 yards. But that will vary with altitude and temperature, e.g. possible @ 5400 feet on a 75 degree day but not @ sea level on a 45 degree day.

3) However, shooting to a 1000 yards regardless of your rig and round is not easy. I look at is this way: Sometimes I shoot out that far, but I mostly shoot between 300 and 600 so I can confidently "engage targets" under 400 yards.

I'd take the advice above and really get to know the rig, your load(s), wind, etc. with the best quality scope you can buy within that budget. That will limit your magnification range to 3-9X but that will provide a near-flawless scope for 600-yard shooting. You might also look at the forthcoming Vortex PSTs. The 4-16 FFP scope is $50 more than your total budget so we're talking more like $1050-1100 including rings and base, but it also has illumination and zero-stop: http://swfa.com/Vortex-4-16x50-Viper-PST-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P44561.aspx


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2010 at 12:08
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River Monster, I only suggested the two week wait because in my experience there can be a good bit of difference when buying in the budget range you listed for scope and mounts compared to toping at the 1000.00 dollar mark.  I recommended the Big Powered Zeiss because I have it with the Varmint Rapid Z reticle(on a 22-250 700VL) and it has really worked for me. Go to the Zeiss website and click on the Rapid-Z link and the click on Ballistic Calculator.  Fool around with it for a while and I think you'll like it.  The only downside to the Zeiss to me is it is a BIG scope.
   To the contrary Rancid, I like to think I am a 1000 yd'er but if you'd read my other thread and help me chose wisely for a .257 I am accesorizing at the moment, the farthest range I have access to is 150yd's.    
   And I do own what began life as an SPS VARMINT .308 26' .820 Heavy Barrel.  I put the H and S stock on it added a Harris Bi pod. Used the EGW 20MOA Short Action base with SWFA low rings (50mm scope will work with this base ring combo on a 700 Tactical).  Unfortunately I don't have a Conquest (yet) on this rifle. It's topped with a BSA Platinum  8-32x44 AO I had to take off my .17HMR for the time being.  But as you can see on YouTube I am not the only one who improved the accuracy of this gun by replacing the stock. Subtracting .30in from 4 shot groups after deducting for a fouling round My SPS on a bench and sandbag will truly shoot .5 three shot groups all day long at 100yds. Good luck with your choices.   The factory stock may be trash but it is a REMINGTON!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2010 at 12:34
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I am not trying to step on your toes there Fuddy Dudd but the SPS Varmit and SPS Tactical come with different factory stocks and are two different weapons all together.  The tactical come with a hogue with the barrel at 20" and I happen to like mine.  I have the exact same as the original poster and manage sub MOA all day with a two piece base and Nikon 3x9 on it at the moment.  Rancid knows his stuff and I think what he is saying is that most people will use a low power more than the high power in 90% of the situations and that most people that want to shoot at 1000yds rarely or never have the opprotunity too because of range limitations and skill.  I know a lot of great shots at 4-500yds but they can't hit much at 1000yds.  (Get what you will need to use the rifle at the range you can use.)

Edited by SVT_Tactical - January/22/2010 at 13:01
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2010 at 12:48
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Thanks SVT_Tactical,
  I stand corrected on the stock.  Thanks! Somehow Was sleepy when I read the original post last night and it got muddled and turned into a 700 Varmint .308 in my 1 a.m. brain. Then got carried away cause I love the one I have that is totally different.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2010 at 15:48
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I have 2 guns that can stretch to 1000 yards (and neither is a .308.)  I've shot 1000 yards, I can hit at 1000 yards, but it is far from easy - and anyone telling you otherwise is lying or selling something.

That said, I most enjoy 500-600 yard shooting: it tells me when I screw up and it is a good test of technique.  Allot can be hidden on the 100 yard line.

Never build a 100-yard gun for 200-yard shooting.

The 3-9 is a great fit.  Past 800, I too want more magnification, but my misses at 1,000+ are seldom the optic and usually a bad wind call.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2010 at 20:17
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Everyone, thank you for the insight.
I would only want to be able to reach out to 1000 yards, however this is more of a goal and not necessarily possible, or practical at this time. My local, official range is 200 yrds, but we could get out to 400, or 500 out of town.
This is my first longish range gun, so I appreciate the advice to take the time to get to know the rifle and the loads before I try to push out past the scope of my abilities.
I have actually been looking into the SWFA SS scopes quite a bit. What would the performance advantages be with the SS 3-9x42 compared to the SS 10x42? I understand that the 3-9 is FFP, mil/mil, variable, but I just don't know how these features can be used to my advantage on the range due to my lack of knowledge on the use of shooting optics and ballistics.
 
Lumberjack- I found your comment about .22lr shooting comical simply because a buddy of mine and I just got back from a trip to a rural range in which we spent the day shooting clay pigeons out to 130 yards. We started closer and we're hitting, so we moved the targets out to about 130 yrds hung on trees, set on stumps and placed here and there. It's fun to watch the little orange discs shatter after a very noticeable gap of time between the moment that you pull the trigger to the moment the bullet finds it's target. I honestly can say that this is the most fun that I have had shooting for a long time.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2010 at 22:15
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Having lived near Seattle, I hear what you're saying about short ranges. Even around here, if I want to shoot in the winter, the most convenient place (25 minutes away with a plowed parking lot) is 300 max. And when the snow is gone, while it's easier to get to places where you can shoot out to 600 , 1000 means either driving an hour or hiking same. I prefer that because it gets me in shape and I'm shooting at around 6000 feet, which is where I do most of my elk hunting. The only difference is temperature then.

So what are the advantage of the 3-9 over the 10X? First and foremost, it's a variable and will be much better for close in shooting. After that, it really depends what you put into it and what you're using the scope for. FFP, for example, is better for ranging on targets at multiple unknown distances, especially when time is of the essence. That's not that useful for most of us. I also have an SFP scope that I range with. It tops out at 10X, which is its ranging power and that's about when I need to worry about knowing the distance to the target anyway. Matching turrets to the reticle, whether mil/mil or moa/moa, is nice because you can see how far off your POI using the reticle and dial in the correction without any conversion.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2010 at 17:57
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With a new scope on the way soon, I have been looking for information on how to go about using optics for distance shooting, how to dial in elevation/wind, create dope cards, etc. If anyone can recommend a good place to read up on such a topic it would help me greatly.
At the moment I won't be hand loading, but will probably be shooting GMM 168 gr. or Black Hills 175 gr. factory ammo.
What is the best way to go about learning how to use rifle optics?
 
This is proving to be a great thread! Thank you all for the help so far.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2010 at 01:28
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River Monster, there are a couple good short videos on Youtube can point you in the right direction on MIL/Mil MOA/Mil that can accompany the paperwork with what ever you have or will buy.  Personally, for external ballistics, buy or borrow a chronograph from someone( can find on the net for @ 100.00 for entry level) then use one of the many online ballistics calculators for various distance drops to create your dope cards. It is very important tha you record actual velocity from yor rifle and stay within an accepted deviant/variation, personally I accept 50 fps from factory ammo. Black Hills usually does better. And I also use the REALGUNS ballistic calculator. Just me though..there are many opinions here and can't believe more have not chimed in to point you in a different direction.  The most important advice a much more experienced shooter ever gave me was..Informed shooting prevents deformed shooting.  Good luck. P.S. unless you just get lucky with the two ammo choices you listed and shoot exceptionally tight groups at say..100yds, keep looking until you find that guns sweet ammo. Then think @ stretching farther. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2010 at 09:03
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Originally posted by TheRiverMonster TheRiverMonster wrote:

With a new scope on the way soon, I have been looking for information on how to go about using optics for distance shooting, how to dial in elevation/wind, create dope cards, etc. If anyone can recommend a good place to read up on such a topic it would help me greatly.
At the moment I won't be hand loading, but will probably be shooting GMM 168 gr. or Black Hills 175 gr. factory ammo.
What is the best way to go about learning how to use rifle optics?
 
This is proving to be a great thread! Thank you all for the help so far.


Here's a quick primer on using JBM Ballistics - the free online ballistics calculator that is considered one of the best around (http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_drift-5.0.cgi):

1) First rule: Its results are very close, but only an estimate

2) The results are only as good as the data you enter. It's important to have an accurate BC for the bullet and muzzle velocity. Beyond that, the major factor that will affect your results is the atmospheric section, the exception being humidity. So you will want to enter the correct temperature for when you'll be shooting. You also need to understand the relationship between the Pressure and Altitude fields and the "Pressure is Corrected" checkbox.

Pressures are given either station pressure (the actual, uncorrected pressure - which can usually only be obtained by a device in the field) or as corrected "Sea Level Pressure" (which is what you get from NOAA or other weather forecasts). In most cases, corrected pressure is the number you will have available, so you want to enter that number in the Pressure field and enter the shooting altitude in the Altitude field. Then ensure that the checkbox is checked. If you happened to have the uncorrected pressure, then you would enter a value of 0 in the Altitude field and uncheck the box.


Edited by jonoMT - January/26/2010 at 10:04
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