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Optics GrassHopper
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    Posted: January/23/2018 at 18:47
I've decided to upgrade the optics on my BR rifle. Have narrowed down to Kahles K624i 6-24x56 MOAK.

Thought it prudent to do a check here on thoughts before I spent this much $.

I shoot at a 600yd range all bench, 6.5x284, varmint contour semi-custom Rem 700.

I hope I covered everything
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2018 at 18:59
They are on at least gen3 now if not 4 or 5. The gen1s are optically not great, the gen2s are an improvement but still not what you would expect for the price. At gen2, I stopped spending my money on a scope that promised to be awesome and wasn’t.

There is a singular reason to buy that scope: the parallax adjustment is at the base of the elevation turret - which is a genius place to put it. Unfortunately, it also seems to introduce complexities they are still unable to solve. I shoot lefty as often as righty so still run a K624i on my favorite 300WM. There is CA above 18 or so, the image never gets as clear and sharp as you’ll want, and the parallax turret is very picky. In short, it is a great scope at $1000 and a very bad deal at $1001 or more - the higher the price, the worse the deal.

Lastly, Kahles knows it sucks but still won’t give you your money back. And terrible optical performance is not a repairable condition under their warranty.

I know a few people with newer scopes and they like theirs. At first, I liked mine. It took a bit of time behind it to figure out all the many problems.

You can do much MUCH better for the money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2018 at 21:04
Appreciate the insight. This is what I was hoping to find out before I might make a mistake.

In the $3000 price range, what are other options? My second pick was Nightforce ATACR 5-25x56 F1, but in my research there seemed a fair bit of less than ideal opinions with it also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2018 at 06:41
Oooo somebody just opened the flood gates....

I'm sure you'll get excellent advice here!!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2018 at 07:30
Are you a turret-spinner or do you dope the reticle?
Any chance of a secondary need (hunting, 1000 yard range,etc)?
Are you set on MOA or consider mil reticle/turret also?
Are there other shooters at your 600 yard range with scopes you can look at?
What scope is on it now?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2018 at 07:34
I would also point you to Koshkin’s sight, this might help.

http://opticsthoughts.com/?page_id=94

And I agree with his assessment of the Tangent Theta scopes, optically awesome and mechanically as close to perfect as I can accurately measure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2018 at 19:53
I generally use the reticle more than the turret

No hunting with this rifle, only for fun 600 yards

Only know MOA. To old to learn mil system

Scopes I've looked through at range, Nightforce SHV and NXS 8-32x56

Scope on it now is Burris Veracity 5-25x50. Tends to be too dark from 400 yds on out

Read a lot at Optics Thoughts. Saw there the Kahles was defective and was an incomplete review

Tangent Theta "way" beyond my $'s. Wifes sense of humor has its limits Wink

Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2018 at 23:17
If a scope is to dark, best option turn the mag down. Distance will not make a scope dark. But often a person turns the scope all the way up for distance and then the image darkens as less light is reaching your eye. 25x on a 50mm objective is asking a lot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2018 at 05:51
In a quality scope... "alpha" glass, modern high quality coatings, modern high quality design, "dimming" due to magnification will not be a factor.  Long ago, it was... now, not so much (if at all).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2018 at 10:09

have you checked the samplelist for options?


Normally some great options there for good markdowns!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2018 at 11:01
Another line of thought: 25X is tough to do well, even for the alpha-class stuff.  I have several optics in the >20X range and almost never venture there (though I seldom shoot from a bench.)  Above 20X on most 5-25s and the like, head position is super important - and usually not easy to find. Additionally, at 20X+, I get to watch my heartbeat on the reticle, which is distracting for me.  I know my heart is beating equally at 15X and at 20X, but not seeing it at 15X makes me a better shot - I've played around with it enough to know empirically.

If 600 yards is the max range, I would be looking for something in the 15X to 18X top end.

On top of that, I would look to glass above all else.  If you plan to dope reticle over turrets, great glass will make more difference than will more magnification.

Were I looking for what you have described, it'd be a no-brainer: https://swfa.com/tangent-theta-3-15x50-professional-marksman-30mm-rifle-scope.html

It is in your $3000-ish price range, the glass is exceptional, Koshkin says the turrets are great, your existing mounts should work (assuming they are good mounts), and it even has a MOA reticle.  I have the 3-15X big brother of this one and love it.  I have run this scope's predecessor (the Premier Light Tactical), took it to Africa several years ago and smoked the continent - metaphorically speaking.  I never touched a turret, reticle dope only, and took shots out to about 400 yards, with lethal results.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SEMO Shooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2018 at 11:59
I have 2 Gen 3 Kahles K624i.  On has a Skmr2 and one has a Skmr3 reticle.  I like them both very well.

I had a NF ATACR 5-25x56 F1 #C546 with Mil-R reticle.  It was a great scope, but I like the Kahles better so I sold it.

I have a older Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56 PMII with the P4F reticle.  It has the best glass of these three, but the reticle is not my favorite.

The glass on the Kahles & NF are comparable (IMO).

My main use is long range steel tactical type matches.  I rarely use more than 16x during a match.  I like the SKMR Christmas tree style reticles for hold overs with wind.  For bench rest shooting that type of reticle is not needed.




Edited by SEMO Shooter - January/26/2018 at 13:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2018 at 05:02

I agree on the Tangent Theta... but consider March... their high magnification scopes are superior.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote helo18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2018 at 11:58
Love my Kahles.  Really like my March scopes too.  Only thing I don't like about the March is mine are the older ones that they used the Army calculations for the adjustment vs the Marine mils like my other mil scopes.  Once I figured it out, they have been great.  Just have to remember to adjust.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2018 at 18:16
I like the US Optics too, thought about listing that, but their glass is hit-n-miss, as is their customer service post-John.

I do still love the EREK, but the Tangent Theta might displace it soon.
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