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OOPS Major F Up w/ 1911

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2011 at 21:06
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Not me I know off target off trigger on target on trigger.. But I dont think I want a serpa for a 1911 now.


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - July/11/2011 at 21:07
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2011 at 21:22
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OHHHH dam ...that's gunna leave a mark.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2011 at 22:12
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The  1911 is a Thinking Man's  Weapon.
 
grip safety off
thumb safety off
pressure on the trigger    =    BANG
 
Ive seen a trained gunsmith accidental discharge a 1911, the pistol did not like hollowpoints and failed to close all the way so with a firm grasp on the pistol with the right hand he wiggled the slide and brought it forward at which time you got it the grip safety was of the thumb safety was off and the firm grasp of his hand included pressure on the trigger ..... you dont put your finger on the trigger until you are on target and intend for it to go BANG.
 
When you grasp firmly with one hand  ( suspect ) it will also cause you to grasp frimly with the other hand  so keep your finger off the trigger out of the trigger guard until you are ready to shoot.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2011 at 22:14
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I think that I will continue to plink at tin cans and not try to whip a loaded gun out of its holster in 3/100th of a second.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2011 at 23:02
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That is a great video.  Everybody at work is gonna watch that one.

Serpas are excellent holsters.  It wasn't the holster.  You would still have to get the finger to the trigger.  In fact, you can see him put the finger in the trigger guard and fully depress the trigger.

Trigger finger discipline.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2011 at 04:30
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Gotta love those ND's.................................................when they happen to somebody else.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2011 at 11:13
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There is something to be learned from this.  Obviously what has already been stated off target off trigger but the Serpa Lock is prone to collect dirt and debre in the mechanism and requires periodic cleaning. I believe he mentioned however probably not thoroughly enough that he had to press  hard on the release mechanism and attributes his finger going onto the trigger prematurely to the significantly increased pressure used to release the serpa lock.  I can certainly see how someone can accidental discharge during quick draw with the combo of a 1911 and a serpa lock holster and I do not believe I want a serpa for my 1911 actually I prefer a Milt Sparks inside the pants holster with no retention mechanism for my 1911 but I am issued a serpa lock for my issued Glock 22 and so far it has been a good holster not quite as secure as my Safariland 070 style duty holster which is my favorite but probably a tad faster.  I've used a lot of holsters over the years and I used to use one on duty made by Bianchi with a 1911 which had a plastic cone that snapped into the trigger guard and was low cut in front probably the fastest holster I've ever had but I got the typical complaints:  that officer is carrying his pistol cocked in the holster. 1911 guys will all snicker at that one since you cant put the dam safety on unless it is cocked.
One of my buddies here who is a Deputy US Marshall went into BATFE and they flipped out because his 1911 was cocked --- DUH   (1911 guys have all been there.)  The Army addressed the issue by carrying the hammer down chamber empty and racking the slide when needed for use but while that is the most safe manner to carry it, that is too slow for a gunfight.
 
The 1911 is a Thinking Man's Weapon!!!
  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2011 at 13:23
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IT was not the serpa holster itself that caused the problem.  He had been practicing with a glock and a different holster that has the active retention release in the same place that the 1911 thumb safety is.  So he quickly drew and when he did since he was use to pushing down the retention device on the other holster he took the 1911 off safety. 

Then this is where he messed up.  He allows his finger into the trigger guard upon draw and he pressed the trigger. 

I also use Serpa holsters and I have never had the problem of my finger going directly into the trigger guard upon clearing the holster, but I have worked really hard to train myself to not let that happen.  He just got sloppy at that point.  Alot of the shooting schools are outlawing the serpa though, because peoples fingers do seem to slide into that trigger guard.  I think the serpa is a thinking mans holsters as well.

I really like the serpa when I am fourwheeling, that active retention is nice because I do not have to deal with it falling out. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2011 at 13:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2011 at 13:44
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Mike, thats very cool and very nasty at the same time.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2011 at 15:21
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Originally posted by mike650 mike650 wrote:


Holy Christmas! 
Think that will buff out?!?! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2011 at 15:32
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I'm glad the gent referred to this as a negligent discharge and not an....cough... accidental discharge, as is routinely done around the intra web these days. 

Good on him also for having the nards to make a video of himself and sharing it with others, to prevent the same injury happening to someone else. 

    
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2011 at 15:42
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from the looks of the injury he must have been using FMJ rounds being it didnt' fragment all to heck when it hit flesh and came out clean
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2011 at 18:12
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Who cares???? It still blew up his foot...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2011 at 18:24
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Yea he would not have been happy with a Glacier Safety Slug.
I try to keep my trigger finger fully extended and rigid while depressing the Serpa and enter the trigger guard as the gun comes on target.   I find that the 1911 is great if you are for sure going to shoot but for holding suspects at gunpoint I prefer a Glock or a Sig or a revolver.  You dont have to want very hard for a single action 1911 to go bang with the trigger as light as some of them are.  The switching guns and switching styles of holsters can be a huge problem,  consistency is a good thing.   Also worth mentioning again is if you squeeze with one hand as in grabbing a suspect etc you tend to squeeze with the other hand (gun hand) so if your finger is on the trigger it may go bang so choose wisely when to enter the trigger guard.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2011 at 22:54
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

There is something to be learned from this.  Obviously what has already been stated off target off trigger but the Serpa Lock is prone to collect dirt and debre in the mechanism and requires periodic cleaning. I believe he mentioned however probably not thoroughly enough that he had to press  hard on the release mechanism and attributes his finger going onto the trigger prematurely to the significantly increased pressure used to release the serpa lock.  I can certainly see how someone can accidental discharge during quick draw with the combo of a 1911 and a serpa lock holster and I do not believe I want a serpa for my 1911 actually I prefer a Milt Sparks inside the pants holster with no retention mechanism for my 1911 but I am issued a serpa lock for my issued Glock 22 and so far it has been a good holster not quite as secure as my Safariland 070 style duty holster which is my favorite but probably a tad faster.  I've used a lot of holsters over the years and I used to use one on duty made by Bianchi with a 1911 which had a plastic cone that snapped into the trigger guard and was low cut in front probably the fastest holster I've ever had but I got the typical complaints:  that officer is carrying his pistol cocked in the holster. 1911 guys will all snicker at that one since you cant put the dam safety on unless it is cocked.
One of my buddies here who is a Deputy US Marshall went into BATFE and they flipped out because his 1911 was cocked --- DUH   (1911 guys have all been there.)  The Army addressed the issue by carrying the hammer down chamber empty and racking the slide when needed for use but while that is the most safe manner to carry it, that is too slow for a gunfight.
 
The 1911 is a Thinking Man's Weapon!!!
  


I started with a Bianchi "pinch" style holster, and also found it lightning fast, once the draw was in muscle memory.

I spent years with the Safariland 6280 (the light-friendly one), but now I'm in plain clothes and carry a G22 (or G23 some days) in a standard Serpa every day.  I have never had a problem with the release mechanism on my Serpa and do 20 practice draws a day, every day.  I do inspect my gear often and thoroughly, and have not found a dirt or debris problem with my Serpa.  I do see how it could happen, especially in some environments.

It is just silly to carry a 1911 for duty any other way than cocked and locked.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2011 at 12:25
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I have heard that some schools wont allow the serpa in their class because of dirt and debre jaming the lock mechanism so occasional attention to the lock may be a good idea. My duty rig is the level 2 Serpa and I like that it protects covering the rear sight which the standard holster does not. I also tend to practice with the release multiple times a day as Ive only had this holster issued for about a month and only had it on the range one qual course.
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