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One great scope ..... two great rifles

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 15:44
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O.K. first of all what a great forum here !! Y'all really know your stuff. Second, I know you will be jealous now...... I live about 10 miles from SWFA ( lucky me Bucky ) so looking through all the great glass they sell won't be a problem. Now on to my question, after new deer leases this year and two new rifles, my budget is pretty well blown.
   I've had Swaro PH's in the past and really liked them. I have a Weatherby Accumark 7mm Wby mag. and a Weatherby Lightweight .240 Wby. mag that I need to scope. I have found a Zeiss Victory 3 x 12 x56 T* for about 1400.00 that I can handle but would need to use it on both rifles.
   My question is do you think Talley quick release set-up would retain zero ( left to right ) on both rifles? The trajectory of the two 150 gr. vs. 100 gr. will remain close to 250 yards or so. I thought I could site in the 7mm mag then the .240 mag and if the left to right remained very close, just change the trajectory a few clicks up or down after re-mounting on the other rifle. Thanks in advance.
Richard
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 15:49
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In short no two rifles are going to zero the same. You can take the scope off one rifle and put it back on with minute changes in zero. To accomplish what you seek to, you will need a multi zero scope, like a Kahles or a leatherwood. Or you can also continually change back to center by counting clicks and then count to zero for the given rifle and ammo.
 
Welcome to OT.


Edited by cyborg - March/05/2008 at 15:50
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 16:38
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I would divide that $1,400.00 by two, and still get to very good pieces of glass for $700.00 each.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 16:45
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Originally posted by huntingtexas huntingtexas wrote:

O.K. first of all what a great forum here !! Y'all really know your stuff. Second, I know you will be jealous now...... I live about 10 miles from SWFA ( lucky me Bucky ) so looking through all the great glass they sell won't be a problem. Now on to my question, after new deer leases this year and two new rifles, my budget is pretty well blown.
   I've had Swaro PH's in the past and really liked them. I have a Weatherby Accumark 7mm Wby mag. and a Weatherby Lightweight .240 Wby. mag that I need to scope. I have found a Zeiss Victory 3 x 12 x56 T* for about 1400.00 that I can handle but would need to use it on both rifles.
   My question is do you think Talley quick release set-up would retain zero ( left to right ) on both rifles? The trajectory of the two 150 gr. vs. 100 gr. will remain close to 250 yards or so. I thought I could site in the 7mm mag then the .240 mag and if the left to right remained very close, just change the trajectory a few clicks up or down after re-mounting on the other rifle. Thanks in advance.
Richard
Question!.............If you are planning to spend $1400 on one Zeiss Victory, wouldn`t you be better served by buying 2 very good quality $700 or so scopes and save yourself the headache or inconvenience of switching and then re-zeroing???......I know that the Zeiss has outstanding glass, but is that worth it to you to switch and then re-zero?................Just a thought!...........BTW. I use a conventional mounted scope and a scout scope on the same rifle, a Ruger Frontier! But when I swap them over, they are already zeroed in and ready to go! The rings stay on the scopes and all I do is unscrew the rings from the integral bases. Takes 3 minutes to swap!.............However, in your case, two different rifles, two different calibers and then having to re-zero after the swap?.......Sure you wish to do that?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 16:50
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Very good responces, thank-you. O.K. maybe I should just save a little longer and get a couple of Kahles.... I really do prefer 30mm tubes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 16:52
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responses too  Clown
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 17:02
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Originally posted by huntingtexas huntingtexas wrote:

Very good responces, thank-you. O.K. maybe I should just save a little longer and get a couple of Kahles.... I really do prefer 30mm tubes.
................................Unless you have a quickie type set up like me (2 scopes for one rifle), having 1 scope for two rifles will get very old after awhile. It will become inconvenient later when you don`t want that inconvenience!!.........Two Kahles is a much better way to go! WinkWinkWinkWink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 17:21
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I'd vote for two Kahles as well!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 17:24
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Two bushnell 6500s @ $700.00 apiece would provide you with excellent glass and your 30mm tubes, just food for thought.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 17:26
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Another issue with mount/remount is that there will be changes in zero even if you take the scope off a gun and put it right back on the same gun - obviously, this is magnified if you put it on a different gun.

I've had the same thought too (one great scope for 2 guns) but it just doesn't work in practice it seems to in concept.

Buy 2 scopes, zero them, have 2 guns at the ready.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 17:53
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I agree totally with the comments you've received so far, huntingtexas.  You can get 2 pretty nice scopes for $700 each.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 18:01
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Huntn Texas.............Other than more adjustment capability, what can a 30mm scope tube do that a 1" tube can`t do??...........If your reasoning is more light capability, the tubes diameter has nothing to do with better light gathering.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 18:10
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Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

Huntn Texas.............Other than more adjustment capability, what can a 30mm scope tube do that a 1" tube can`t do??...........If your reasoning is more light capability, the tubes diameter has nothing to do with better light gathering.
   O.K. maybe I'm off the mark here but, I have 1 Swaro left on a 7mm/08 and when I raise the rifle the sight picture is " right there ". It was the same on a 270 Wby mag I had with a 30mm Swaro, the sight picture was " right there".
   I bought this .240 Wby mag, it had a Leupold VX-III 4.5 x 14 x 50 AO and when I raised the rifle my head looked like a bobblehead doll on the dash of a 66 Chevy truck going down a washboard country road. I had a very hard time capturing a full site picture. I know it's a great scope but I took it off and it's in the closet. My limited experience seems to be that I can get a much quicker site picture with 30mm tubes. I'm sorry about my terminology, I know it's not right but I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 18:20
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Originally posted by huntingtexas huntingtexas wrote:

Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

Huntn Texas.............Other than more adjustment capability, what can a 30mm scope tube do that a 1" tube can`t do??...........If your reasoning is more light capability, the tubes diameter has nothing to do with better light gathering.
   O.K. maybe I'm off the mark here but, I have 1 Swaro left on a 7mm/08 and when I raise the rifle the sight picture is " right there ". It was the same on a 270 Wby mag I had with a 30mm Swaro, the sight picture was " right there".
   I bought this .240 Wby mag, it had a Leupold VX-III 4.5 x 14 x 50 AO and when I raised the rifle my head looked like a bobblehead doll on the dash of a 66 Chevy truck going down a washboard country road. I had a very hard time capturing a full site picture. I know it's a great scope but I took it off and it's in the closet. My limited experience seems to be that I can get a much quicker site picture with 30mm tubes. I'm sorry about my terminology, I know it's not right but I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.
......................Your sight picture looking through the scope as it relates to your head position has everything to do with the scope ring height. It appears that you dont have the right ring height for your 1" Leupold??? If your ring height is correct for you, you should not have this problem with a 1" tube!!! Ive never used a 30mm scope and Ive never had that problem!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 18:21
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Check for proper eye relief positioning too!
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Then other than costing much more and more room for adjustment, are there any other advantages of a 30mm vs. a 1" tube?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 18:31
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Originally posted by huntingtexas huntingtexas wrote:

Then other than costing much more and more room for adjustment, are there any other advantages of a 30mm vs. a 1" tube?
........................IMO! There are no advantages using a 30 mm tube. There is absolutely nothing that a 30mm can do, that a 1" tube can`t do!....................Your problem with your Leupy is either with the scope ring height and/or with the eye relief, as those relate to your head positioning! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 18:34
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The 30mm tubes are stronger and look more in proportion to 50mm+ objectives. I have a 50mm 1" Leupy and it looks bad.  There are several 1.5-6x42 and 2.5-10 Kahles with 30mm objectives here:
http://www.samplelist.com/default.aspx?display_num=10&mfg_selection=5&prod_type=1&hide_sold=false

These scopes are excellent and you can get both for close to $1400.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 18:37
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Thank-you so much for the advice, when I got the rifle I knew it wasn't set up right. The front of the scope was actually touching the barrel. I took it off and will go to SWFA and see what trade in they'll give me on a couple of Kahles. I'm going to start another thread for advice on which Kahles to purchase, I've searched these threads until I'm cross-eyed and still don't know exactly what would work out best for me.
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Originally posted by huntingtexas huntingtexas wrote:

   O.K. maybe I'm off the mark here but, I have 1 Swaro left on a 7mm/08 and when I raise the rifle the sight picture is " right there ". It was the same on a 270 Wby mag I had with a 30mm Swaro, the sight picture was " right there".
   I bought this .240 Wby mag, it had a Leupold VX-III 4.5 x 14 x 50 AO and when I raised the rifle my head looked like a bobblehead doll on the dash of a 66 Chevy truck going down a washboard country road. I had a very hard time capturing a full site picture. I know it's a great scope but I took it off and it's in the closet. My limited experience seems to be that I can get a much quicker site picture with 30mm tubes.
 
What you are noticing is what has come to be referred to as the "eye box" or the max distance your eye location can deviate front to back and side to side of the nominal eye relief position with the scope still providing a full view of the target image.  Some scopes are more forgiving in this regard than others.  Tube diameter has no effect whatsoever on eye relief or how forgiving the eye relief position is.  That is solely a function of eyepiece design and focal length.  There are some 1" tube scopes with more forgiving ER than some 30mm scopes. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 18:46
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

The 30mm tubes are stronger and look more in proportion to 50mm+ objectives. I have a 50mm 1" Leupy and it looks bad.  There are several 1.5-6x42 and 2.5-10 Kahles with 30mm objectives here:
http://www.samplelist.com/default.aspx?display_num=10&mfg_selection=5&prod_type=1&hide_sold=false

These scopes are excellent and you can get both for close to $1400.


Tahqua is right there!.... But if you tweak or damage a 1" tube, you`re really doing some heavy s*** that you shouldn`t be doing anyway. The 30mm`s do look better porportionally with the larger objectives; 50mm and up!.......But then again, I`ve never been a 50mm or greater objective fan! Those scopes are more money, weigh more, add a higher profile to a rifle, where as the 44`s and less do the opposite. The larger objectives do bring in a little more light for low light situations, but after all is said and done, a great quality 40 to 44mm or even a little less, will not stop you from bringing home the goods!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 18:48
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by huntingtexas huntingtexas wrote:

   O.K. maybe I'm off the mark here but, I have 1 Swaro left on a 7mm/08 and when I raise the rifle the sight picture is " right there ". It was the same on a 270 Wby mag I had with a 30mm Swaro, the sight picture was " right there".
   I bought this .240 Wby mag, it had a Leupold VX-III 4.5 x 14 x 50 AO and when I raised the rifle my head looked like a bobblehead doll on the dash of a 66 Chevy truck going down a washboard country road. I had a very hard time capturing a full site picture. I know it's a great scope but I took it off and it's in the closet. My limited experience seems to be that I can get a much quicker site picture with 30mm tubes.
 
What you are noticing is what has come to be referred to as the "eye box" or the max distance your eye location can deviate front to back and side to side of the nominal eye relief position with the scope still providing a full view of the target image.  Some scopes are more forgiving in this regard than others.  Tube diameter has no effect whatsoever on eye relief or how forgiving the eye relief position is.  That is solely a function of eyepiece design and focal length.  There are some 1" tube scopes with more forgiving ER than some 30mm scopes. 
Awww.... then The Swarovski's must be more forgiving ( for me anyway ). I hope the Kahles will be the same for me also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2008 at 18:53
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Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

The 30mm tubes are stronger and look more in proportion to 50mm+ objectives. I have a 50mm 1" Leupy and it looks bad.  There are several 1.5-6x42 and 2.5-10 Kahles with 30mm objectives here:
http://www.samplelist.com/default.aspx?display_num=10&mfg_selection=5&prod_type=1&hide_sold=false

These scopes are excellent and you can get both for close to $1400.


Tahqua is right there!.... But if you tweak or damage a 1" tube, you`re really doing some heavy s*** that you shouldn`t be doing anyway. The 30mm`s do look better porportionally with the larger objectives; 50mm and up!.......But then again, I`ve never been a 50mm or greater objective fan! Those scopes are more money, weigh more, add a higher profile to a rifle, where as the 44`s and less do the opposite. The larger objectives do bring in a little more light for low light situations, but after all is said and done, a great quality 40 to 44mm or even a little less, will not stop you from bringing home the goods!!!
 
Squeezer,
 
I buy 30mm tubes so I can carry my rifle to the woods..............Saves me money, I don't have to purchase a sling!


Edited by antleraddiction - March/05/2008 at 18:54
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Seriously though, the 30mm tubes do look better even with a 42mm bell!
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