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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2007 at 11:16
noob28 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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Ok everyone lets have some fun i want to hear from every one out there here it is what companies have the best rifle scope and which have the worst rifle scope my bet is ..... Also I am about to buy a AR 15 and want feed back on what is the best for my sh*t you know. I still decideing on what scope to buy for my 338 and starting to save money for it an yeah payday next week
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2007 at 17:48
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The best in my opinion are Schmidt&Bender, Zeiss Diavari, Swarovski Z6 and PH. Mid Pack are Nikon, Leupold, Meopta, Burris, IOR, and Pentax. The worst are BSA and Barska IMO. This is a generic listing as some are obviously better than other in the mid pack list.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2007 at 18:45
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Please be more thorught i want to know all and dont be scarded to talk trash about the companies i dont know et what to buy i still doing alot of resarch any suggestions
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2007 at 18:57
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Price point is generally a good indicator of where a scope falls on the quality scale, but not always.  In general, any of the scopes exceeding $1000 retail are among the world's best, scopes retailing between $300 - $700 are the "mid range" models, and any scope retailing below about $150 or so are low end.   Again, there are always exceptions, but this is a pretty good rule of thumb.  Bottom line, a precision instrument as complex as a riflescope cannot be made to sell for a profit at $50 and be of good quality at the same time.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2007 at 16:29
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Ok, for me this is easy.  The best scope are not necessarily the most expensive, nobody has proven that by double blinded studies, but they are good.  I personally cannot see a reason to spend 2000 dollars on a rifle scope, when for my purposes a 500 dollar one will do everything I need and what the 2000 model will.  I have compared these scopes and to my eyes, I cannot see the difference.  Are they more rugged?  I don't know, never have thrown around a bunch of them or done the cheaptrick testing on a bunch to compare.  And as far as ruggedness, that type of testing would only prove that those scopes actually selected performed that way.  Look a super sniper, rugged as any other by its history and look at its price.  We all know what is crap.  So, I am going to say the best rifle scopes are made by Super Sniper, Bushnell Elite 4200, Sightron SII, Nikon Monarch, Burris Signature Select, Leupold VXIII (but way overpriced), for the money Swift and as a more high end selection Nickel EDS series (Gerhardt), as well as a Euro model.  As far a low light is concerned.  Unless you hunt in the night, the 2000 dollar models will never be necessary.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2007 at 17:07
RifleDude View Drop Down
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Dolphin, what you are describing is the rule of diminishing returns.  While the best scopes will almost always be more expensive than the lower quality scopes because higher quality materials and better construction is more costly to produce, a $2000 scope isn't necessarily twice as good as a $1000 scope, and a $1000 scope isn't necessarily twice as good as a $500 scope.  Up to a certain point, it costs considerably more to produce a scope offering increasingly miniscule gains in performance over a lesser scope.  Also, much of the higher cost of the Euro scopes is due to import fees and high labor costs where they're made, not necessarily in "value added" features of the product.  That said, the best scopes in the world, out of necessity, are also the most expensive, they just aren't necessarily the "best value for the $" scopes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2007 at 17:27
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tasco is crap too
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2007 at 19:10
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Dolphin, what you are describing is the rule of diminishing returns.  While the best scopes will almost always be more expensive than the lower quality scopes because higher quality materials and better construction is more costly to produce, a $2000 scope isn't necessarily twice as good as a $1000 scope, and a $1000 scope isn't necessarily twice as good as a $500 scope.  Up to a certain point, it costs considerably more to produce a scope offering increasingly miniscule gains in performance over a lesser scope.  Also, much of the higher cost of the Euro scopes is due to import fees and high labor costs where they're made, not necessarily in "value added" features of the product.  That said, the best scopes in the world, out of necessity, are also the most expensive, they just aren't necessarily the "best value for the $" scopes.

I agree.  But, until someone does double blinded testing on all of those Euro scopes versus the Asian (Japanese) scopes that well all know are good, when I cannot see any difference, I cannot justify spending the additional money.  Truthfully, I am not sure they are better.  I want to see the testing.  As you know, in my field I depend on testing and it can be done on rifle scopes, despite the contreversy.  I find that whenever someone says, oh you cannot do comparative testing on a certain product, that means they really do not want to know the truth.  This is common in the high end Audio (not audio-visual) world, where people buy 10000 dollar pair of speakers, but refuse to listen to any type of comparative testing against a 2000 dollar pair.  With the technology that exists today, I find 2000 dollars quite excessive to pay for a scope.  But as you said, alot of it is due to high labor costs and import fees, but, nevertheless, they figure into the cost. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2007 at 22:57
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

tasco is crap too
Thank You Pyro, I had a long hard laugh at that one. A good one liner from the balcony. But in all reallity some of the old Tascos were not that bad. I still have an old pronghorn from the early 90s   2.5x8x40 It lived through a HARD kicking lever action and a 1000 fps air rifle. It still repeats and the glass is quite clear. But the new tasco varmint series are absoulutly gargage. Keep laughing I also have a simmons Whitetail classic on my volume Prarie dog gun that has easily 15000 shots on the same scope but 2 barrels,3 triggers,2 stocks. but the scope is perfect and I would never sell it. I think most people from this forum would agree that the bushnell 4200 series is really the best buy going. And I also agree. Just remember that twenty years ago a bushnell scope was junk, trash, I had one with plastic adjustment caps. The high end scopes were called Baush and lomb. Everything changes if you wait long enough.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2007 at 23:26
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i dont know they seem like a real winner for an air rifle or a rim fire but when your throwing it on a .338 i think your begging for trouble. i guess i like the lower end stuff, i cannot afford a $3500 scope let alone a $500 one, so i stick to nikon monarch and nikon buckmaster and burris ff II's and yes even i own a leupold although its a vari x II not the vx stuff of today, i know there are a lot of kahles and zeiss and swaro and s&b fans in here and if i made a lot more money than i do now i would probably at least try these premiun scopes out but i really feel at home with a sub $300 3x9x40 but at the same time you wouldnt ever find a cheapo bushnell or tasco or bsa or barska either, i am very confident that with the current rifles i own i dont have enough ability to shoot better than my scopes can optimally perform, and really with the magnification i use i dont need super high quality glass, if i shot a lot of last light shots or shot a lot of extreme distances then yeah i would need something a little better, but for the 25-100 yd shots i take from a tree stand i cant see needing a scope thats 4 times the price of one that i have used for years and has been all the scope i need, there are a lot of really nice scopes on the market today just like a lot of items, and to bad mouth one imo comes down to either oppinion or general consensous, so either its one man thought or its really  the truth and the product is terrible in many many cases, my rule is to have an open mind to trying stuff but also if it doesnt compare dont fix something thats not broke, like my nikons i tried those then tried the burris now i am back to nikon.i am now waiting to try the bushnell elite 4200 when i buy a new rifle i am very tempted to try one out but there warranty is iffy.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2007 at 00:15
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The thing that astounds me is that so many people buy leupolds, get them home, compare them with their buddies UCCs,4200s. and send them back thinking that they must have got a defective one, only to be told that there is nothing wrong with them. Case in point, my friend is trying to dump one on e-bay right now. When you spend $700 on a scope, you have a $700 expectation.... But the optical clarity was no better than a simmons varmint scope for $115.  I don't think he will be buying another one soon. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2007 at 10:26
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Looking at the babe accross the street is one thing, planning what your going to do with the babe accross the street is another completely different thing, which doesn't require a scope (as asp is pointing out). Now if your comparing racks the $2000 job may be necessary (I've never found that to be the case, usually its just a go or no go thing). Several years ago, I think it was SWFA, in conjuction with Tasco, brought out a series of 3x12 EURO scopes that were easily several cuts above the average.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2007 at 11:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2007 at 12:34
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Thank You Maine(r), That was just a horrible oversite on my part. The article in field and stream was great also. Really, asp you are being quite snobish if you read my post what i said was that the optical clarity was no better than that paticular simmons. the leupold in question was sent back to the factory with a detailed letter explaining all the tests performed against many various high end and many other scopes of various manufactures. These tests were performed at my rifle range at 400 yards. The factory sent it back with a nice letter stating that they checked it and found it to be in acceptable parameters. We are prarie dog shooters and are very critical of clarity. When you regulary shoot thousands of rounds in a week at targets the size of red squirlls it becomes very apparent what glass is clear. The tests among other things include a resolving power test chart designed for the USAF in 1951. I do not say these things on pure opinion and I am not stuck on any brand. If you want to pay an inflated price on an inferior product, go right ahead. That scope is on e-bay,have at it. VXII 30mm tube with 40mm objective,side focus, varmint hunters. I belive it is a 6.5x20. My friend would love for you to buy it so he can recoup some of the purchase price!      
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2007 at 15:13
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i never said i liked crappy scopes i dont like simmons if i had to choose between simmons and loopie i would buy loopie all day, i have no issues with nikon and burris either, they are priced where i can afford them and i have had nothing but good luck with them they have taken the beating from my 300wsm, so i cant see any reason not to keep using them.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2007 at 18:17
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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The scope would have to be a new Vx3- the usaf grid is not sufficient for testing lens 
  • www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/MTF.html
  • and I do shoot thousands of pds.

    a "best" scope can a least pass the box test-- Have one of each manufac. and price is no determining factor.

    leo work better for pd hunting because their lens are set up more in the red range which enchances the reds in pd coat  -- and their new alumina lens cover makes it even better.

    the term clear glass is clearly ambigious--- sometimes the lead coloration of Swaro or Waterford tinted by a good scotch is preferable

     

    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2007 at 20:00
    Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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    In the waterford down the shooter scope out the john.
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