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ok, how bout upgrade from monarch to conquest

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/23/2008 at 04:43
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in the 5x20x44 and 6x20x50 respective model class? will there be a noticeable change particularly at the top end? which has better field of view, contrast, brightness, biggest eyebox etc? cheers!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2008 at 06:21
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The Zeiss is in another league to the Nikon, and in my opinion is the best mid priced high mag socpe available.
I had a Nikon 5-20 BDC and was so unimpressed that I sold it before even mounting it. It felt cheap and flimsy, the ret. was way too thick, very small FOV and the flip up lens covers are a joke. I've got two Zeiss 6.5-20, and they really are very good indeed, better than nearly everything else owned so far including Bushnell Elite, Burris Signature (inc. Select range), Kahles CL, Leupolds, Nightforce Varmint and NXS, Nikon Monarch (Old and New) and top end Weavers. I must have a had a few more than that, but can't remember them all.
The only two scopes I've had that were optically better were both Swarovski, and 6-24 PVS and a 4-16 PV.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2008 at 08:24
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Do you need 20X?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2008 at 10:06
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i think so yes. let me tell you my reasoning and scenario.
i shoot varmints at night under spotlight with a target area of no more than 3" across, out to 300yards. therefore i want to get as close as possible to make the shot easier. i have noticed that shots at that distance during the day aren't hard on low power[7x or less], but at night due to the light gathering issue it is much harder, therefore to make up for lack of light i increase the power to get really close. now i have never looked through a really bright scope under my hunting conditions in the lower powers[or any power for that matter]so i don't know whether a lower powered really bright scope would be up to the task?
so before you ask i will say that the light gathering of the 5-20-44 at 20x in less than ideal conditions is not really an issue as i shoot under spotlight.
the steadiness, field of view is not really an issue as i use a bi-pod.

so my question to you and anyone else out there;

should i opt for a lower powered better quality scope like a 4-12-40 meostar[which is under budget]or even a 7-56 meostar, or try and get a better quality high powered variable that is clearer and brighter. do others agree that the 6.5-50-50 conquest is indeed that?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2008 at 10:17
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Higher the power scope means the lower the exit pupil.  At 20x a 44mm scope is only going to have 2.2mm of exit pupil.  At night a human eye pupil will expand to about 6-7mm.  So the light coming through that scope is going to be significantly less than what your eye can take in.  So at night to get the brightest picture you are going to want to have the eixt pupil coming through your scope about the same size as the pupil in your eye.  So optimally at night with a 44mm scope 6 to 7x would give you the optimal exit pupil. 

But like you said you will be shooting with a spot light which will help some.  Also glass quality will play a huge role in this, so going with the Zeiss is a good idea. 
With the 50mm conquest your optimal power would be around 7-8 power.  But having a higher power scope as a varmint scope is always nice.  And getting a variable like you are looking at gives you all the options you need.  If you can use the 20x with your eyes and lighting condition then great.  If it is a little to dark for you on 20x then all you have to do is turn the power down until you can see well, problem solved. 
In your case with your intended uses, I would get the 50mm objective as it will allow you a little more exit pupil at any given power, which in low light is always a plus.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2008 at 10:20
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Forgot to mention that I also had a Meopta Meostar R1 3-12x56 with 4B that was very impressive for the money -very nearly as clear as the Zeiss. However, I also sold that without mounting it as I prefer higher mag scopes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2008 at 10:34
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Meostar optics are fantastic.  I doubt the Conquest glass is going to be any better, the Divari scopes I would assume were better, but Conquest it is going to be real close.  Zeiss owns Schott Glasswerk which provides the glass for their scopes.  And Meopta uses Schott Glass in their scopes to.  So they both have great glass in them.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2008 at 10:37
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I mentioned in another thread recently that I used to own the Conquest in 6.5-20x50, but rarely used it above 15x as head positioning became too critical at the higher powers. If I could rewind the clock, I would have gotten the 4.5-14x50 version instead for the much better FOV and exit pupil. That is my suggestion to you as well.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2008 at 10:47
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Originally posted by brencat brencat wrote:

I mentioned in another thread recently that I used to own the Conquest in 6.5-20x50, but rarely used it above 15x as head positioning became too critical at the higher powers. If I could rewind the clock, I would have gotten the 4.5-14x50 version instead for the much better FOV and exit pupil. That is my suggestion to you as well.



Yup, that is another problem with getting high power scope and having that small of an exit pupil.  That little 2.2mm of exit pupil will have to be lined up perfectly in the center of the shooters pupil or the sight picture is hard to get.  That is another reason I rarely use my IOR 3-18 above 10 or 12x.  Just to hard to get a good sight picture.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2008 at 14:59
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Under challenging condition optical quality typically trumps magnification.

In your situation I would probably go with a Meostar with as large of an objective lens as you can get.  While the spotlight certainly helps, the spotlight will be on the target, not on your eye, so the eye pupil will still dilate some.  I am not sure how old you are, but you should probably want at least a 3.5 to 4mm exit pupil at the highest useable magnification.

Meopta Meostar 3-12x56 would be a very good choice, but it has the reticle in front focal plane which you might not like (personal preference comes into play here).

4-16x44 and 3-10x50 Meostars are very good as well and have SFP reticles.

With Conquest, once again 3-12x56 would be your best bet if you can afford it.  Other good options are 4.5-14x50 and 6.5-20x50.

As far as optical quality goes, Meostar and Conquest are petty comparable, although I would probably give a slight edge to Meostar.  As a side note, since Meopta makes Conquest glass for Zeiss, it is not very surprising that they are similar in quality.

Personally, I would probably also look at Kahles CL 3-10x50. 

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2008 at 17:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2008 at 09:25
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is there any loss in getting the 6.5-20-50 over the 4.5-14-50 and using it mostly on 14x? will the field of view be different, the eye relief, the brightness,the size and hence flexibility of the eyebox[don't want tunnel effect that has been spoken of in other posts].cheers.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2008 at 12:54
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Originally posted by rooshooter rooshooter wrote:

is there any loss in getting the 6.5-20-50 over the 4.5-14-50 and using it mostly on 14x? will the field of view be different, the eye relief, the brightness,the size and hence flexibility of the eyebox[don't want tunnel effect that has been spoken of in other posts].cheers.

The critters you are targeting, 3 inches at 300 yards, represent about 1 minute of angle. As you increase magnification, the scope's FOV gets smaller, which makes the target a larger proportion of the image. I will guess that your experience encourages you to want this circumstance. I think Koshkin addressed this by his comment "under challenging conditions, optical quality typically trumps magnification."

Members who have used both can give you better answers as I have looked at the 6.5-20x,50 on only one occasion, and never at a 4.5-14x,50. It seems that you have settled on these scopes as your finalists, so I will offer these comments:

At 14x, a 6.5-20x,50 should have a FOV of about 8.1 feet at 100 yds. The Zeiss website lists the 4.5-14x,50 to have a FOV of 8.84 ft at 14x, which would be the FOV of the 6.5-20x,50 at 13x.

Both scopes are listed to have 3.5 inches of eye relief. I think the brightness would be the same when set to the same exit pupil size.

I don't recall tunneling as a problem for the one I saw, and my notes only indicate a bit of softening of the resolution at the edge of the field above 15x. It displayed a pin coushin effect with vertical lines bending inward at the field edge, which is common. This effect has been addressed by Koshkin in another thread on this forum.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2008 at 13:02
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If it were me and your only use is going to be for longer range varmint shooting and mostly at static targets.  I would get the 6.5-20x50 over the 4.5-14x50.  Optically at equal powers they are going to be very very similar I would imagine since they are both Zeiss scopes.  The fact is you can always turn down the 20x if you don't need it, but you can't turn up the 14x if you want more. 

The higher the power and the less the exit pupil size the more critical your eye position will be.  Meaning since the band of light coming through the scope is smaller then you have to have your eye lined up more perfectly behind the light to get a full sight picture.  But if most of your shooting is prone or off a rest of some type and you are stationary, it will work fine.  And again you can always turn the 20x down to make it work better if you need to.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/28/2008 at 07:58
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cheers all. much appreciated!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/28/2008 at 09:38
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Originally posted by Guesty Guesty wrote:

The Zeiss is in another league to the Nikon, and in my opinion is the best mid priced high mag socpe available.
I had a Nikon 5-20 BDC and was so unimpressed that I sold it before even mounting it. It felt cheap and flimsy, the ret. was way too thick, very small FOV and the flip up lens covers are a joke. I've got two Zeiss 6.5-20, and they really are very good indeed, better than nearly everything else owned so far including Bushnell Elite, Burris Signature (inc. Select range), Kahles CL, Leupolds, Nightforce Varmint and NXS, Nikon Monarch (Old and New) and top end Weavers. I must have a had a few more than that, but can't remember them all.
The only two scopes I've had that were optically better were both Swarovski, and 6-24 PVS and a 4-16 PV.
   Forgot to mention that I also had a Meopta Meostar R1 3-12x56 with 4B that was very impressive for the money -very nearly as clear as the Zeiss. However, I also sold that without mounting it as I prefer higher mag scopes.
 
 
                      Bucky  ............................... Loco   ....................  BS%20Flag


Edited by mercenary1947 - August/28/2008 at 09:41
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/28/2008 at 16:35
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Originally posted by mercenary1947 mercenary1947 wrote:

Originally posted by Guesty Guesty wrote:

SNIP
 
 
                      Bucky  ............................... Loco   ....................  BS%20Flag


A well reasoned and elucidated argument. Congrats on a case well made.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/29/2008 at 00:46
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i kind of got sidetracked but can anyone make a comparison between the monarch and the conquest. as it stands the monarch is performing rather well,,, but again, i haven't looked through anything better!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/29/2008 at 03:57
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The new monarch seems to have a brighter image while the size has better details. Overall i would give it to zeiss but that is just a matter of my own personnal preference. Others say they are about equal. It's just better if you look thru both and take your pick on which suits you better. Big%20Grin

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/29/2008 at 06:04
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i would but in my part of the world access is very limited.doh!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/29/2008 at 06:47
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Sounds like a great upgrade to make. I personally own a 4.5x14x50 Conquest, and have hunted deer all over with it mounted on a Winchester 70 coyote in 7mm WSM. Works great for me with that set up. Also, I have always been a hardcore Leupold fan, and still like their optics, but trying to turn the magnification ring on a VX-I  or VX-2 is like taking candy from a baby. In my opinion they are way to hard to do. Maybe I'm a wimp, but the ease of the adjustment on a Zeiss or even a Burris is not hard to take. Plus the Zeiss clarity is second to none.
 
Good Luck in your choice.
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