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Not All Kahles KX Reticles Are Etched

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2008 at 09:50
SamC View Drop Down
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FYI, word from Kahles is not all KX reticles are etched, this is the email I received today from Kahles in Austria.

"reticle
4A and Plex are mechanical reticles and 4-D and MilDot are glass reticles".

 

With best regards from Vienna,

 

 

Birgit Gruber

Fakturierung

Invoicing

 

 

KAHLES Gesellschaft m.b.H.

Zeillergasse 18-22

A-1170 Wien / Vienna

Österreich / Austria

T: +43/1/486 33 55/26

F: +43/1/486 33 55/77

b.gruber@kahles.at

www.kahles.at
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2008 at 11:32
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Interesting....takes a while to get information out of them I see.....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2008 at 16:50
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Interesting.  It's a shame that you have to email Vienna to get a correct answer about their product, because apparently SONA, their current US service center, can't seem to get their facts straight when you ask questions of them.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2008 at 19:07
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Ted,
I didn't know who I was asking at first, I just wrote my question at the "contact us" section of their web site and a week or so later received the information from Birgit in Austria.
Sam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2008 at 21:12
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Bummer, plex and 4A are not etched.  I was ready to pull the trigger on a Kahles, now I may rethink that and stick with the Conquest...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2008 at 21:35
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Get a CL then.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2008 at 22:34
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Read my current post under "Is this normal for a Kahles"    Bricat
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2008 at 22:47
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Originally posted by TheDrakeTaker TheDrakeTaker wrote:

Get a CL then.
 
CLs cost a little more, only to get a side focus feature I don't really want in 3-10x50 scope. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2008 at 23:31
SamC View Drop Down
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A non etched reticle shouldn't be a deal killer, compare the quality of the glass, coatings, etc remember everything is relative. Do your homework and spend your money wisely!
Sam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2008 at 07:40
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Well I'm a little different I guess but a non-etched reticle would very likely be a deal killer. I have been well spoiled by the conquest always black etched reticle and don't care for the color changing nickel wire crosshairs like leupold and bushnell have. I wouldn't spend the $ on a kahles and get a wire reticle....just me, but thats a fact. On a sidenote the sightrons are now doing etched reticles on some of theirs but not all and monarch is doing some also. The change to laser etched seems to be on but happening slowly. What Bricat is describing is a nickle wire reticle changing color due to reflected light. Bronze to pink to black......

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2008 at 09:50
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Really guys, why is the reticle construction a big deal?  Has this reflected color change ever prevented anyone from being able to make a shot or see the reticle at the moment of truth?  Since the color change in metal reticles is only noticed under off axis light conditions, I've never ever noticed it when I was actually shooting at game.  In fact, although I have noticed it on Leupold and some other scopes, of the 4 Kahles scopes I own, 3 of them have either a plex or 4a reticle, and I have never noticed the reticles to appear any color other than black.  So, I really think it's much to do about nothing!  Kahles is noticeably superior to the Conquest in my eyes, so much so that if the Kahles reticle was made of paper mache', as long as the reticle has a history of being durable, which it does, and it's backed by a lifetime warranty, which it is, I'd still prefer the Kahles over the Conquest!
 
Also, I have a S&B Zenith scope with an illuminated #9 reticle.  The reticle has a circle surrounding the center of the crosshair, so it has to be etched, otherwise how could the small, very thin circle outline support itself?  I can still see this reflection off the reticle and slight color change under certain, very rare light conditions, but so what?  Like the Kahles, the scope is optically awesome, and I can always see the reticle in bold contrast to what I'm shooting at, so why does it matter?  So, I'm not convinced that these bronze to black color changing reflections you're seeing is always indicative of a wire reticle.  It could have just as much to do with what is used to define the reticle as how the reticle is constructed.  Quite possibly, it could be just light being reflected off the etched surface and the color being influenced by lens coatings.
 
It just wouldn't be a deal killer for me.  I'm much more interested in overall dependability of the scope and optical quality.  I wouldn't select a scope based on whether or not the reticle was etched unless I was comparing 2 essentially equivalent quality scopes, both with equal strong points and one happened to have it and the other didn't.
Loco
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2008 at 10:02
SamC View Drop Down
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Remember we are  only talking about the KX series . Here is the actual question I asked Kahles in my email

"Does your KX line of scopes have an etched reticle?"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2008 at 10:04
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it shouldnt matter either etched or mech reticle in any kahles scope is still better than a lot of other companies scope is ted point
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2008 at 10:35
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

it shouldnt matter either etched or mech reticle in any kahles scope is still better than a lot of other companies scope is ted point
 
DING DING!  BowExactly! 
My point is not whether this is confined to the KX series or not, but simply that regardless of whether the reticle is wire, etched, or made of yak hair...why the hell does it matter if you can see some minute change of color under certain light angles that are actually rarely encountered if the reticle is proven to be durable, it's backed by a good warranty, and the scope is optically and mechanically awesome?Cheers
Loco
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2008 at 11:23
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THE PROBLEM IS, when I spent $399 on my first "upgrade to Euro-optics" (Zeiss Conquest) I looked through it and I was so "wowed" by the clarity of the glass and the crispness and blackness of the reticle that I bought it on the spot. It performed flawlessly this hunting season and I couldn't be happier.  I thought to myself if this Zeiss is so good I can't wait to upgrade again. Lots of talk on the OT about the wonders of Kahles, so I bought one. Kahles 2-7x36 CL. I just knew that when I got my new scope that I would be so overwhelmed that I would probably wet myself. After all, it is a Kahles and the MSRP is twice as much as my Zeiss. So I was a little dissapointed when I took my new scope out of its pretty little icy-blue and white box and the first thing that I see are two putty filled holes!    then I look through the thing expecting the same experience that I had with my Zeiss and what do I see? A reticle that changes colors faster than a chameleon under a disco ball! I'm not saying that it is a bad scope I just expected a little more for all the talk and for the price. To me it does matter if the reticle changes color-I've been spoiled by the zeiss. I stand by my original statement that the Zeiss Conquest is the best  bang for the buck!  Love, Bricat
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2008 at 11:41
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i love people who actively search for something to bitch about, it wouldnt matter if they were given a brand new kahles cbx or a s&b zenith or a swaro z6 they would still find something to bitch about. the conquest is a nice scope but the kahles cl's i have looked through were better especially in last light type conditions, not knocking the zeiss i would love to have one myself, but the experts that test the scopes and report on it usually arent wrong, im fairly certain that if you asked koshkin which is better optically a conquest or a cl he would tell you a cl.
 
where does the putty filled holes affect the performance of the kahles scope??
do you want to sell your kahles scope since you seem so unhappy with it??
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2008 at 12:09
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oh Pyro, settle down now. I am not looking for something to bitch about. I just think that if I'm going to spend that kind of cash it should look like it's worth that kind of cash. No putty holes in a Lexus, if you know what I mean. Of course it doesn't affect performance, no one ever said that it did. Also nobody is arguing which is better optically we're talking about what the reticle looks like! and yes if you would like to put your money where your mouth is you can own this very same scope for $525 plus shipping.   Bricat
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2008 at 12:18
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why would i spend $525 to buy it from you when i can spend $450 and buy it from swfa? some of the nicest things in the  world dont look like they are worth a nickel, and anybody who knows anything about scopes would look at your cl and go, hey is that a kahles cl scope, man those are nice, anybody else who doesnt know and is ingorant about it are the people who you bet beers or supper with and they buy every time cause they dont realize what you have, i also dont understand what the "looks" of the reticle have to do with performance either? as long as you pull up the scope and there are cross hairs visable i think you will kill whatever your aim and shoot at.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2008 at 12:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2008 at 12:37
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conquest scopes & reticles are excellent, yes. i prefer etched over wire, but won't let that deter me from buying a scope.
 
BUT, i 'upgraded' from a 44mm conquest w/a plex reticle - to a 50mm elite 4200 w/ illuminated number 4 retcle on a deer rifle - to me, it was a better lowlight solution.
 
probably because of the reticle, more than anything - would i rather have the illum #4 in a conquest? yes. But i was very very happy to switch to the 4200 for that 30.06.
 
if it works, it works, it works.  I don't care what it's made out of if it is dependable and functions flawlessly.
 
opinions and preferences are a personal expression. nothing more.
 
most everyone is right on this one. every kahles i have laid eyes on has been top notch.
 
J
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2008 at 12:37
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Nobody said the looks equate performance either. What i said was I was dissapointed by the looks of the reticle after being spoiled by the Zeiss reticle. Personal preference not performance. I have no doubt that this scope will serve me well in the field - just a little dissapointed that's all.  The WOW factor just wasn't there for me. To answer your question-I don't know why you spend $525 on it? You are the one who offered to buy it -that is what I would sell it for.   Bricat                                                        
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2008 at 12:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2008 at 12:41
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I guess kahles could have done as so many others do and scrimped a little, by placing a sticker over the screw hole huh? No they actually put something in there and something that unless you want it out is not coming out.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2008 at 12:43
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Back in your hole, skunk!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2008 at 12:47
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