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Nikon Team Primos first impression

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/05/2008 at 10:11
jjake View Drop Down
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Remarkable service by SWFA. I purchased a sample list Team Primos on Monday; it was delivered on Tuesday. Now that is customer service.
 
Nothing technical in this review just my opinion.
 
According to the sample list description the scope was factory refurbished with light scope ring marks. When I open the box it looked like a new scope; not a blemish or smudge of any kind. The only indication was the 90 day warranty paper that said it was refurbished.
 
It was already dark by the time I made it home but there is plenty of ambient light from the street lights to see through the scope. I took out a couple of other scopes and set them up along with the Primos. I had a Leupold 3-9x40 VX-I and a 3.5-10x40 VX-III. My thought was to replace the VX-I with the Primos. First thing I noticed was the BDC reticle on the Nikon was more difficult to pick up with the dark background. The VX-I reticle was apparent and the VX-III reticle nearly glowed in comparison. The observed brightness of the Nikon and the VX-I were too close for me to tell a difference; I was excepting a WOW factor difference. The VX-III appeared much brighter. Then I ran into the real problem. The outside dimension of the Nikon and VX-I seemed to be the same. But the tube between the magnification adjustment and the bell is shorter on the Nikon. Therefore the rings I have already mounted on the rifle which work with the VX-I are too far apart; the front ring hits the bell of the Nikon by about 1mm. I never even thought to check the clearance before making the purchase.
 
Overall I was very pleased with SWFA and my purchase. I am not displeased with the scope just a little underwelmed based on my own exceptations of the comparison with the VX-I. I will just find a different rifle on which to mount the scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/05/2008 at 10:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/05/2008 at 11:03
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Very interesting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/05/2008 at 11:06
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what Shenko said!  thought the Nikon would have been better compared to the VX-I
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/05/2008 at 11:34
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I find that very interesting as well. I thought the Primos was comparable or close to the Monarch & the VX3 in all depts........Maybe not.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/05/2008 at 11:55
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I will get some of my hunting partners to take a look. Now that archery season is over my daughters will be hunting with me. I will ask them to see if they notice any obvious differences also. Different eyes different opinions.
 
I don't know about a Monarch but my evaluation of the Primos vs the VX-III would be they are not close to the same quality. I will get the 4200 and an old Vari XII out as well.  
 
Darn time change has me going to work in the dark and coming home in the dark.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/05/2008 at 12:27
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Originally posted by jjake jjake wrote:

I will get some of my hunting partners to take a look. Now that archery season is over my daughters will be hunting with me. I will ask them to see if they notice any obvious differences also. Different eyes different opinions.
 
I don't know about a Monarch but my evaluation of the Primos vs the VX-III would be they are not close to the same quality. I will get the 4200 and an old Vari XII out as well.  
 
Darn time change has me going to work in the dark and coming home in the dark.
 
 
.............Optically, the 4200 will be better than the Vari X2.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/05/2008 at 17:21
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who-da thunk it ??
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/05/2008 at 21:51
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boy i dont think i will agree with that at all. i either own or have owned all the scopes mentioned, and the vxiii is not better optically.  the vxi better than a monarch?? vxi maybe better than a nikon prostaff, the vxii isnt as good as a buckmaster and the vxiii certainly isnt better than a 4200.



Edited by pyro6999 - November/05/2008 at 21:56
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/06/2008 at 06:56
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Ditto on Pyro's comments. I have a Prostaff and a Monarch, there is absolutely no doubt about the difference. The Prostaff is optically better than the VXI, and atleast as good as the VXII. The Primos is a UCC and it is better than the VXII. The Monarch and Monarch X are better than the VXIII. Now when you compare the price differences between these scopes, Nikon and Bushnell Elites come out well ahead of Leupold.
Now there are always going to be those that look for different things when judging a scopes attributes, but if you set all of these scopes at the same relative power/exit pupil settings for their respective Objective sizes, you will definitely see the differences in low light, and resolution capabilities. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/06/2008 at 07:36
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I think my eye sight must be bad or my ability to distiguish the clarity/contract differences is poor. From my observation the Primos (which is where this started) is nice and a good price but not remarkably distiguishable from the scopes I was originally comparing it to. Maybe that tells me more about the other scopes rather than the Primos.
 
I did not have time to get anyone else together but I did drag out the scopes again. Just set them up at the house looking into the street/yard under the street lights.
 
I had the Primos, Vari-XII, VX-I, Vari-XIII, VX-III and a 4200. The Nikon and Leupolds are all 3-9x40 or 3.5-10x40. The Bushnell is a 6-24x40.
 
Set them all on the lowest power setting and tried to point them all at the same tree, bush, street sign etc. to see if my eyes could tell a significant difference. If I try hard I can tell that the Primos is a little better than the VX-I and about like the Vari-XIII but I had to make myself notice it. When I hunt, I am likely to go from the binoclulars, make a decision, straight to the scope and fire. I don't think I would have time to tell the difference. I still picked up the Leupold reticle easier.
 
I disregarded the Vari-XII because (Dad would be so proud) I must have cleaned the lense with my shirt tail multiple times over the years when I was younger. Lenses looked a little scratched.
 
Just out of curiosity I set both the VX-III and 4200 on 6 power. The 4200 was brighter and clearer. The 4200 mildot reticle was tough to see but I mostly paper punch with it and have been very pleased. I was a little disappointed since I alway considered the VX-III to be my best low light scope.
 
My conclusion - If I had it to do over would I buy the Primos again....no. But still not upset about what I got for the price.
 
What would I consider instead - the 4200 in 3-9x40  
 
 
 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/06/2008 at 08:42
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Here in is the first problem of doing the lowlight test. You need to set the power to be relative for all scopes you are evaluating. If your lowest power setting for one of the scopes in the test is 6X then all scopes have to be set at 6X to give the proper exit pupil. This is of course provided that all scopes have the same Objective diameter.
In short, a 40mm Obj at 6X gives the exit pupil at diameter of 6.67. You simply can't expect it to be the same brightness as a scope at 3X with a 40mm Obj. This is an exit pupil of 13.33. A scope with a 3.5X low end gives 11.43. The perceived brightness is relative to exit pupil. Coatings and quality of glass also contribute. 
 
Your findings with regards to the 4200 are because you made the test fair with regards to the exit pupil.


Edited by cyborg - November/06/2008 at 08:45
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/06/2008 at 08:55
jjake View Drop Down
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That's why I enjoy this site; you guy do all the heavy thinking. I just like to hunt. You are correct, it did not occur to me that the 3X and 3.5X would make a significant difference. I suppose my thought process was ....if I bring the scope up to my eye what will I see. Generally, in early morning or late evening I have the scope set on the lowest power, whatever that may be. Good info, thanks 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/06/2008 at 08:59
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You're most welcome. Your way of keeping the power set at low is exactly why so many of us hunters use the lower power scopes for that application.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/06/2008 at 11:38
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Hey, jjake, I'm finding this interesting.
If you take the VX-I, VX-III, and the Nikon, and set them all at 4X or so, and just pull up and look through them, how do they compare as far as being able to quickly get on target with a nice, clean sight picture?
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/06/2008 at 11:45
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I love the 4200 scopes.  But I ran into a problem this season with one.  I was spotting some elk right as it got light with my Meopta Binos.  I could easily make out the spike bull with my binos but when I pulled up my 3-9x 4200 I could no longer tell which one was the bull.  So the moral of the story, don't get binos that are better than you scope or you will have to turn around and spend a bunch more money of scopes that are as good as your binos.  Big%20Grin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/06/2008 at 14:09
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Supertool, that's the absolute best excuse I can think of to justify the purchase that is so obviously needed.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/06/2008 at 20:55
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if my dad would let me i would take the varixII thats on my 300win that he is borrowing from me and throw it in the trash and replace it with a nikon buckmaster and not feel guilty thats how much better the nikon is, the primos would blow him away, about like when i had my grubby little paws on that swaro rangefinder, oh my god was that glass amazing! the primos and the monarch blow the doors off most of the scopes mentioned, i do have a hard time distinguishing any major differences bewteen the 4200 and the monarch/primos. but the eye relief of the nikons makes them a little more friendly when bench shooting, but they dont have rainguard. the zeiss conquest is a similar comparison, but i do find the zeiss to be a bit better in lower levels of light thant the nikon and the bushnell both. the reticle stands out better.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2008 at 08:35
jjake View Drop Down
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Did a little more impromtu comparison. I am sure some will find it "interesting" and others will disagreed...that works for me.
 
This time it included a couple of friends from the neighborhood. A little background. One is from Scotland and had never held a gun before 2 years ago. We now shoot together about once a month; mainly dressed up 10/22's. The other friend is an East Texas hunter; no shooting just for fun. If he pulls the trigger it is to bring home meat. Good friends but diverse backgrounds.  I told them to ingore the reticle, just look through the scopes and tell me what your preference would be.
 
Anyways...I got the scopes back out. Primos, VXIII, 4200 and VXI. Set everything at 6X or what was marked 6X.
 
Scotsman rating: VXIII, 4200, Primos, VXI
East Texas rating: 4200, VXIII, Primos, VXI
 
Scotsman noted that the VXIII seemed be easiest to see through when he brought the rifle up. The VXI was his bottom choice for the exact same reason; it was most difficult for him to get oriented behind the scope to get a clear picture.
 
East Texas looked at it in terms of "could I tell if that was a buck or a doe under the tree?". He clearly preferred the 4200 and said the Primos/VXI was a toss up to his eyes.
 
Food for thought...topic for more discussion...opinions to shoot holes in
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/08/2008 at 10:53
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As far as the VX-I being the 'most difficult for him to get oriented behind the scope to get a clear picture.'  That surprises me.  Is that your opinion, also?

Thanks for sharing your observations.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/09/2008 at 20:41
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My feeling the refurbished scope may have a defect that was not corrected.The Primos is brighter than a VX1.I have both of these scopes and compared it today and the Primos is the winner.  
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