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Nikon or Bushnell, I’m stuck!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2005 at 23:29
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To the point. I'm shooting a 7mm Rem Mag. West Texas. 300 yards plus are not uncommon.My goal for next season is to upgrade my optics and increase my power magnification. 

 

I've been reading many post throughout this forum and have even searched by "key- word". I have learned much from this forum. Based on what I consider quality and value, I narrowed my search down to two scopes.

Bushnell Elite 4200 6-24x40

Nikon Monarch 6.5-20x44

 

From what I've read in this forum both are very good scopes and both have outstanding clarity.Both are priced close enough to each other, so that want be a deciding factor for me.

 

I'm no scope expert, but I cannot get that old (unfair) gut feeling that I know Bushnell made a lot cheap scopes (maybe in the old days) and that may not be true at all. Thats why I need you all to persuade me one way or the other. I need a scope that allows me to zoom up to full power and confidently squeeze the trigger at a deer 350yds away with full 100% confidence that my scope is on the mark.

 

I would also apreciate the reason why you would choose one over the other.

 

Thanks in advance for all your expert opinions.

 

Brewdaddy

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2005 at 09:15
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Either one would be great.  I hunt open country like you do, but I stick to my Swaro a-line 3-10x42.  If I can't see well enough to shoot at 10x I get closer and do not take a pot shot.  You'll have real problems holding any optic @ 20x steady....it will be bouncing all over the place. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2005 at 10:56
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Honestly, I have never shot with anything higher then 9x, so I'll be interested to see how difficult 20x will be. I will also add that all three of my hunting stands are set up with bench rest shooting. I'm hoping that will allow me to utilize the higher powered scope.

Edited by Brewdaddy
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2005 at 14:54
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I know I spend alot of time looking through a spotting scope when I'm hunting.  Those real high powers are extremely hard to hold steady even with a tripod, and heat waves are a real problem too. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2005 at 15:26
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Not wanting to buy a scope with Bushnell's name on it is precisely the reason they licensed the Bausch and Lomb name for so many years.  You have nothing to fear as a name is just a name.  In fact Bushnell does not even own any factories and sources from many factories all over the orient.

 

I would go with the Elite over the Nikon because of the 4x erector (4-16 instead of 4-12 or 4.5-14), rainguard coatings and one year money back guarantee.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2005 at 10:21
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I'd opt for the Elite 4200  for the same reasons......also, I've had some trouble with a new Nikon Monarch not holding zero,and even more difficulty getting it repaired under warranty. They just aren't the same now that they are being made in the Phillipines.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2005 at 16:25
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I think both choices are terrible for a 7mag.  You are essentially putting a varmint scope on a deer rifle.  You do not need that kind of magnification on a rifle that you are only going to shoot a max of 300 yards on deer sized game.  I would look at something along the lines of 3-9x40.  The Elite is a very good scope, you just need the right size and power settings.

 

ranburr

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2005 at 21:03
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Ranburr,

 

Could you please explain that comment to me? Does it have anything to do with recoil?  I am no expert on optics. Is there some reason that higher magnification scope, such as the above, will not work on a 7mm for long range shots. Please, something other then "crosshair bouncing around" problems.  Because that wont be my problem. I'm shooting deer varmits in a cozy blind with Bench rest conditions. Currently, when looking through my 9X scope at 300 yrds, those deer look...well, like varmits. So, why wouldnt it be easier and smarter for me to have the ability to zoom up to 20x and see exactly where my crosshair is. If a crosshair is bouncing at 20X then its bouncing at 4X. The diference being, I should see it.

 

I'm not looking for an all around hunting rig, just a long range bench rest condition deer hunting scope.

 

Is it that terrible?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2005 at 10:16
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I personally have no use for such a high magnification, but am wondering what do you do in the case of a more close range shot say less than 100 yds?  or in your type of hunting that's not a concern?  Just curious
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2005 at 11:08
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Both scopes are good but I agree that going to 20x magnification is overkill. I would say the Bushnell Elite 4200 4-16x40mm would be plenty of power for your use and you would save about 50 bucks. If you're dead set on something 20x or higher try to find one to look through before buying one. Even if you have a solid rest to shoot from you will still need to follow your target as it moves. I would think this could be difficult at 20x. If you're dead set on it though then go for it. If it is too much magnification all you have to do is pull back the power.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2005 at 11:27
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Higher magnification will not make you steadier or a better shot.  Personally, I tend to group worse with magnifications beyond 14-16x.

 

Higher magnification is best used for target aquisition. Given the size of deer, a 3-9 is very sufficient to 300yrds. 

 

My concern is that your also limiting your ability to execute good shots under 100yards with a minimum 6x optic.  I would also recommend a compromise in a 4-16x. 

 

 

 

 



Edited by Boomholzer
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2005 at 12:30
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The original thread of this post was done a few weeks ago and a while back, I decided to abandon the 20x idea. However, I still want more then 9x. so I'm now leaning towards the Bushnell 4200 4-16, or If the price becomes right, Zeiss Conquest in 10X.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2005 at 13:02
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IMHO, 6X is not too much for a 30 yard shot, put the scope up, and shoot, its not that hard. I hunt mostly with my scope at 5.5x now because I have found that to be the best magnification for all around shooting. I hate it when people say: "dont get a scope higher than a 3-9 because thats what I use, and it works for me". Well newsflash: EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. If he feels more comfortable shooting with 16x-24x scope, then let him do that. Just because you cant hold it steady doesnt mean he cant. He did say "Benchrest" hunting situation. I just get tired of it when people say, NO dont go over a 3-9x40!! You can tell by his post that he is not comfortable shooting at 9x at 300 yards, but still some people insist that NO ONE needs over 9x to shoot a deer. Just a guess, MAYBE HE IS DIFFERENT. Let him get what he wants. Not what you think would/does work for you.

 

And in his question he never stated "Do you think this is too much power?", he asked "Which one is better?"......and he wanted facts, not opinions.

 

I agree, mirrage could be a factor at higher powers, and eye relief becomes smaller as the zoom increases, but if that is what he thinks will make him hit his desired target then so be it. Let him make the decision, not what works for you.

 

If I was you I would get a Mildot reticle also, and calibrate a known distance to where you know if you hold over with a certain Mildot, then you know you are "dead"-on (no pun intended) at say 325 yards......that could become useful when deciding where the hold over at 300+ yards.

 

Sorry if this offends anyone, but I stand by my statement. Let him choose his own scope. Not what will work the best for YOU. He just wanted to knows which scope was better in terms of optics, etc.

 

BTW, I dont feel I would need a 6-24 scope, but maybe he does.

 

Another option that could be good is a Weaver Tactical 4.5-14x40 with Mildot, but it is a good bit more in price.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2005 at 13:22
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goose7856

No one is telling him to do anything.

Quote BTW, I dont feel I would need a 6-24 scope, but maybe he does.

 

Read Brewdaddy's post above yours.

 



Edited by Boomholzer
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2005 at 14:16
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Goose 7856, if you look in the original post, he specifically asked for opinions.  In fact, 98% of this site is nothing but opinions.  Some more educated than others.

 

ranburr



Edited by ranburr
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2005 at 16:03
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brewdaddy,  Zeiss makes the Conquest in 4.5-14x44. That might be the ticket for you!  I just got a Conquest and I highly recommend it, mine is a 3.5-10x44 though. I would be comfortable making a 300yd shot with it though if I was planning on shooting that far more often, I would go for the 14x.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2005 at 16:04
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I agree 100% carolina flats.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2005 at 16:06
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As my handle indicates I'm not even close to an authority, but why would smaller power help you hold any more steady than a higher power?  In my mind my ability to hold steady on a target (or lack of ability) is somewhat constant.  With a 3x scope on a target at 300yds I may not notice any movement.  But as I move up the power range I notice the movement more and more as the cross-hairs move on the target.  One mm twitch at the rifle comes out to what at 300yds?

 

Seems to me that 'ability to hold steady at higher power" is somewhat a bogus argument since I'm probably going to 'twitch' the same on 3x as I am on 20x.  I just don't notice that I'm twitching at 3x.

 

As far as your scope choice I don't have any experience with either the above mentioned products.  All I know is my neighbor recently switched to a Bushnell Elite 3200 cause he "got tired of seeing the deer with his bino's only to lose sight with his old scope."  What the 'old' scope was I haven't a clue.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2005 at 16:12
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because you have a smaller feild of view at higher powers every little twich is more easily noticed through the scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2005 at 16:38
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I overlooked mentioning the larger exit-pupil one can achieve with a lower power scope.  This could  be advantagious for hunting into low-light dusk conditions.

 

 



Edited by Boomholzer
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2005 at 18:42
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carolinaflats--That's exactly my point.  Regardless the power of the scope the person holding it is doing the same thing.  At higher powers you can see more clearly what effect your body control is having on your long-range shot.  And this is the reason 200 yds is about my limit.  I don't have enough practice time available to have the confidence in a longer shot--even if I was looking through Hubble. . .
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2005 at 19:43
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At higher magnification you are much more likely to run into parallax and mirage problems.  As for holding steady, most people tend to try compensate for every tremor that they see.  That overcompensation usually results in worse field shooting. There are some people who are comfortable shooting high mag scopes even off-hand (Jerry Mikulek is a notable example), for the rest of us it is not the best way to go.

 

Ilya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2005 at 22:07
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If you're wiggling that hard with a 300 yd shot...maybe you shouldn't take it.  It doesn't matter how big or small the scope is. If there is a significant wiggle you may miss your mark. It's one thing to try and track a deer that runs from an impact point 50 yards from where you shot...it's a completely different task to find and track a deer from a 300 yard shot.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2005 at 22:59
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Thank you all for so many opinions, all are well taken.

 

From the start, this is all about me becoming a better shooter/hunter. Everything from gun, bullets balistics and scopes, to my home made deer stand with built in retractable bench rests, one for each window. (they are really pretty cool) I just want to increase my odds everytime out.  I also realize Optics is just one part of the puzzle. I know there's much more including the most important factor practice.

 

As most of you have guessed or suggested, I have never looked through a 20x scope, but know, thanks to all of your imput, I better understand the concerns one has when using it.

 

For the record I will not buy it based on these issues:

1) Short depth of field could be tiresom if the deer is moving to or away from me.

2) Dealing with the increased concern of parellax and AO ajustments.

3) 14X is still a huge jump from 9X.

 

Again thanks!

 

 

  

 

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2005 at 23:17
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Hello Brewdaddy, from one Texas hunter to another I am familiar with your hunting situation.  Since I hunt mostly in the Texas Hill Country you are right that at 300 yards they look small.  I too also hunt from a Bench Rest Type blind.  My longest possible shot is around 500 yards since I overlook a small canyon.  That is a real long shot, and I'm not ready to try that one yet.  But I did make a 260 yard shot with good results.  I have a 6.5-20 scope and I found that even at 300 yards you won't need more than 14x.  I like 12x from 250 to 300 yards.  It helps me locate the shoulder crease on a deer and it also helps determine the broadside angle of the deer.  But, I sure miss the 3x or 4x power range and prefer it over 6.5 power.  So I will be downsizing to either a 3-12  or 4-16.  I also like the Bushnell Elite or the Zeiss Conquest.  Bottom line get what you want, whatever makes you happy, if you don't like it you can always change.    
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